My Weak Deadlift

apwsearch · August 12, 2006, 3:32pm

Two questions.

In training, do you rep your pulls or do you typically do singles. If you rep, what do the sets look like. What about accesory work requiring grip? Do you use straps or not?

Two comments.

You never locked that 405 out. I don’t know if it is b/c your grip feels like it is going to fail at the top, or not, but you basically set it on your thighs at the top.
Anytime I see somebody setting up bent kneed and hovering there for a while I just see little # signs flying off the bar. You are using up way too much energy like that (the Russians actually did studies on strength loss due to time under static load) and you really should start the lift the way you will finish (ie. locked hips and knees.)

Nice pull. Give me a feel for your training and I can probably give you some meeningful feedback.

pizzlemank · August 12, 2006, 7:04pm

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
Two questions.

In training, do you rep your pulls or do you typically do singles. If you rep, what do the sets look like. What about accesory work requiring grip? Do you use straps or not?

If I do a set, I re-set each rep.

So pretty much all singles.

For grip I do static rack holds/lockouts for 405-455 lbs.

I was able to hold 445 for 8 seconds 3 weeks before this attempt. I also do plate pinches, farmers walks and holds.

Two comments.

You never locked that 405 out. I don’t know if it is b/c your grip feels like it is going to fail at the top, or not, but you basically set it on your thighs at the top.

lol, I have done 430 in a sanctioned USAPL meet.

That was 424.2 from a WABDL meet, unfortunately I don’t have a pic for the 430.0 since my coach didn’t send me that pic.

Anytime I see somebody setting up bent kneed and hovering there for a while I just see little # signs flying off the bar. You are using up way too much energy like that (the Russians actually did studies on strength loss due to time under static load) and you really should start the lift the way you will finish (ie. locked hips and knees.)

Nice pull. Give me a feel for your training and I can probably give you some meeningful feedback.[/quote]

Turkmen · August 12, 2006, 8:41pm

Did this lift take place at Planet Fitness in Rockville, MD? The background and those beloved 25kg classic York bumpers look familiar.
I used to Olympic lift there a few years ago. Nice gym.
In addition to grip work, I would suggest the use of the hook grip(wrapping the index and middle fingers over the thumb.)Once you overcome the initial discomfort holding heavy barbells becomes second nature.

apwsearch · August 12, 2006, 9:20pm

Hey, don’t take it personally.

I am sure you do lock out or else you wouldn’t get lifts passed, at least in USAPL, but that pull was not locked and I would not have passed it.

If you are going to get defensive over a critique, I give up.

Good luck.

apwsearch · August 12, 2006, 9:24pm

BTW, we are pulling today and I had a couple lifters look at your pull video and the pic you sent. You are not locked out in either. WABDLA passes that crap all the time.

For what it is worth, two of the lifters who looked at your pulls are National level USAPL judges.

In all honesty, this may have something to do with your grip problem, but I digress.

tigerak02 · August 12, 2006, 9:59pm

[quote]pizzlemank wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
Two questions.

In training, do you rep your pulls or do you typically do singles. If you rep, what do the sets look like. What about accesory work requiring grip? Do you use straps or not?[/quote]

If I do a set, I re-set each rep.

So pretty much all singles.

For grip I do static rack holds/lockouts for 405-455 lbs.

I was able to hold 445 for 8 seconds 3 weeks before this attempt. I also do plate pinches, farmers walks and holds.

[quote]
Two comments.

You never locked that 405 out. I don’t know if it is b/c your grip feels like it is going to fail at the top, or not, but you basically set it on your thighs at the top.[/quote]

lol, I have done 430 in a sanctioned USAPL meet.

That was 424.2 from a WABDL meet, unfortunately I don’t have a pic for the 430.0 since my coach didn’t send me that pic.

tmay11 · August 13, 2006, 12:08am

nice pull!

I love how scared that skinny lady in the background gets!

Raw_Power · August 13, 2006, 12:24am

Tiger, if you don’t mind I would like to add a few comments that I haven’t seen anyone else bring up.

First, it’s your breathing. In the first lift you exhaled all your air on the way down to the bar and lost the benefit of IAP (intra-abdominal pressure) with your belt on. You should have held your breath until you were closer to locking out the bar at the top.

You also appeared to be fumbling with your grip because you were keeping your head up (which is a good thing) and not looking at the bar. You touched the bar lightly and then went out with your hands to where you thought you should be. If you have to look at where you are putting your hands that’s okay.

Just don’t spend a lot of time at the bar. As you get more comfortable with your groove it will become automatic in time. Your legs were bent partially and you lossed some of the stretch reflex from your hamstrings. The set-up you are doing, by not looking down, is great if you are going to “dive bomb” the deadlift and that is not what you are doing at this time. The other comments that were made I concur with so I won’t repeat.

On the second lift, a lot of what I said about the first lift applies here with the exception of the breathing. On this attempt you exhaled in a major way by letting out a “kia” on the way down to the bar thus losing again the advantage of IAP more so than the first lift and you never breathed again before your pull.

If you are doing reps on the deadlift one thing I have found that is helpful is to hold the last rep in the lockout position for several seconds and then do a negative (letting the bar down slowly to the floor).

You might find the Rolling Thunder by Ironmind more beneficial to supporting grip training rather than doing reps with the CoC unless you do strap holds with the grippers or by doing negatives with a gripper that you cannot fully close.

You have great heart, motivation and drive for your training and that is obvious. You aren’t afraid to “grind it out” and that is what separates a lot of lifters who train the deadlift. Keep up the good work and we’ll be looking forward to your 445lb. easy pull soon!

Pinto · August 13, 2006, 12:53am

Yeah- the lift would also get turned down in USAPL if grinded through a slow point in the lift, or you wiggled your toe, or you have a vowel in your name. Better yet, you would possibly get redlighted by a jury of peers that appear to have never been powerlifters.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
Hey, don’t take it personally.

I am sure you do lock out or else you wouldn’t get lifts passed, at least in USAPL, but that pull was not locked and I would not have passed it.

If you are going to get defensive over a critique, I give up.

Good luck.[/quote]

apwsearch · August 13, 2006, 1:59am

Hey.

Way to politicize a comment. Not sure what you are implying relative to a grinde, but as long as there is no downward movement or ramping, it’s clean.

These are standards that have been around since the dawning of the sport, tough guy.

Save it, dude. Otherwise you just sound like some internet douchebag who has attended 2 meets and now has a big opinion.

[quote]Pinto wrote:
Yeah- the lift would also get turned down in USAPL if grinded through a slow point in the lift, or you wiggled your toe, or you have a vowel in your name. Better yet, you would possibly get redlighted by a jury of peers that appear to have never been powerlifters.

apwsearch wrote:
Hey, don’t take it personally.

I am sure you do lock out or else you wouldn’t get lifts passed, at least in USAPL, but that pull was not locked and I would not have passed it.

If you are going to get defensive over a critique, I give up.

Good luck.

[/quote]

apwsearch · August 13, 2006, 2:02am

[quote]Raw Power wrote:
Tiger, if you don’t mind I would like to add a few comments that I haven’t seen anyone else bring up.

First, it’s your breathing. In the first lift you exhaled all your air on the way down to the bar and lost the benefit of IAP (intra-abdominal pressure) with your belt on. You should have held your breath until you were closer to locking out the bar at the top.

You also appeared to be fumbling with your grip because you were keeping your head up (which is a good thing) and not looking at the bar. You touched the bar lightly and then went out with your hands to where you thought you should be. If you have to look at where you are putting your hands that’s okay.

Just don’t spend a lot of time at the bar. As you get more comfortable with your groove it will become automatic in time. Your legs were bent partially and you lossed some of the stretch reflex from your hamstrings. The set-up you are doing, by not looking down, is great if you are going to “dive bomb” the deadlift and that is not what you are doing at this time. The other comments that were made I concur with so I won’t repeat.

On the second lift, a lot of what I said about the first lift applies here with the exception of the breathing. On this attempt you exhaled in a major way by letting out a “kia” on the way down to the bar thus losing again the advantage of IAP more so than the first lift and you never breathed again before your pull.

If you are doing reps on the deadlift one thing I have found that is helpful is to hold the last rep in the lockout position for several seconds and then do a negative (letting the bar down slowly to the floor).

You might find the Rolling Thunder by Ironmind more beneficial to supporting grip training rather than doing reps with the CoC unless you do strap holds with the grippers or by doing negatives with a gripper that you cannot fully close.

You have great heart, motivation and drive for your training and that is obvious. You aren’t afraid to “grind it out” and that is what separates a lot of lifters who train the deadlift. Keep up the good work and we’ll be looking forward to your 445lb. easy pull soon![/quote]

Great response. That was basically dead nuts.

tigerak02 · August 13, 2006, 5:40am

Thank you “raw power” for the response.

I was having trouble breathing in the suit because it was a bit tight, and I haven’t practiced in the suit for a solid 3-months for pulling.

I didn’t get to the bar as fast as I would have liked to b/c 405 was my first attempt in the suit (it was stiff).

For that 445 or whatever maximal attempt, I can scream first, wait a second or two…

Then take a deep breath, hold the breath, lower the body to the bar, snatch the bar and pull it up?

Raw_Power · August 13, 2006, 2:56pm

[quote]tigerak02 wrote:
Thank you “raw power” for the response.

I was having trouble breathing in the suit because it was a bit tight, and I haven’t practiced in the suit for a solid 3-months for pulling.

I didn’t get to the bar as fast as I would have liked to b/c 405 was my first attempt in the suit (it was stiff).

For that 445 or whatever maximal attempt, I can scream first, wait a second or two…

Then take a deep breath, hold the breath, lower the body to the bar, snatch the bar and pull it up?

[/quote]
No problem…didn’t want you to think I was being over critical but wanted to help if I could. We all need that as lifters especially those that compete.

Yes, the tight suit is a consideration and you will have to plan accordingly way in advance of any upcoming meet that you want to attend. What kind of suit are you wearing? Some suits such as the Metal are real ball stranglers and you need to have plenty of time in your gear before a meet so that there aren’t any surprises. You have to able to breathe.

If your belt is the problem then you might want to back it off one hole. Some lifters drop it back one hole compared to where they have the belt/hole placement when they do the squat. You want to have a tight belt soyou will have to be the judge of where you want it. If you are able to yell with your suit and belt on then I believe you have the capability to take in enough air before the lift to create the desired IAP affect that we all want. It’s just a matter of timing In think on your part.

Was the deadlift attempt you performed in the video clip not your usual form/technique? Was this the first time wearing that suit? I have seen very few lifters who “dive bomb” the deadlift. Do you know what I mean by that? Anyway, get your set-up the way that you want it (hand placement on the bar)as quickly as possible and be sure of it.

In training you could possibly “dive bomb” the bar because you are familiar with it and you know where the knurling is. You won’t have that luxury at a meet normally. I believe you said that you compete in the AAU. I have been to a couple of AAU meets and they used an Okie deadlift bar. For training I use an IPF deadlift bar because I compete mainly in the USAPL and those two bars are not the same especially when it comes to knurling placement.

My point is that if you are using a bar that you are not familiar with you would be much better off to look down at the bar and get a good set-up with your grip. You don’t have to spend a lot of time down there. Keep your legs straigt while you are doing this and then once you are sure of your grip on the bar take a final breath, lean back, bend your legs (“cock your hamstrings”) quickly to get the myotatic stretch reflex, keep your head up, shoulders back and pull. Once you have passed the “break point” (for most this is usually 3/4 of the way up? then exhale your breath as you lock it out.

In regards to yelling, I am going to give you my personal opinion on this. I used to yell and so forth before I approached the bar. I learned from experienced lifters and my own experimentation that all I was doing was wasting energy. Keep that harnessed in yourself and use it with the pull.

Most elite lifters if you notice don’t do any of that and seem to have and ease and calm as they approach the bar. If that is your style for psyching up then I would recommend that you do that before you tighten up your belt all the way and walk to the platform.

Yes, your final description of what should happen is ideal in a perfect lifting world but everyone has their own style and there are many factors with this. If you are wearing a tight suit and belt then you may have to take your final breath before you go down to the bar and place your grip. You may be able to inhale little more air as you get your hand placement on the bar but that may be doubful.

Develop a technique/style that will enable you to be able to make the pull effectively no matter what gear you are wearing, what the federation is or whatever deadlift bar they are using.

Phill · August 13, 2006, 9:52pm

[quote]Raw Power wrote:
tigerak02 wrote:
Thank you “raw power” for the response.

I was having trouble breathing in the suit because it was a bit tight, and I haven’t practiced in the suit for a solid 3-months for pulling.

I didn’t get to the bar as fast as I would have liked to b/c 405 was my first attempt in the suit (it was stiff).

For that 445 or whatever maximal attempt, I can scream first, wait a second or two…

Then take a deep breath, hold the breath, lower the body to the bar, snatch the bar and pull it up?

No problem…didn’t want you to think I was being over critical but wanted to help if I could. We all need that as lifters especially those that compete.