I like reading the T-Cell, and actually think it is a great idea!
BUT.
ProX (and others), what’s the beef with us posters who don’t post in the BB section? I know it’s not called Political Nation or Get A Life Nation, but I train and I patron supp’s from this site. Why do you wanna single people like me out? I have no desire to be in T-Cell (nor do I deserve to be or would I even post in it, just like I rarely post in the BB sect), I am 100% content to just read the great advice from those in the T-Cell. I enjoy the Political, Sex, and Get a life forums and I try to stick to wisecracking in them instead of cluttering up the important forums.
Edit:(ProX) I may have misunderstood you, and I am sorry if I did, you might have just being going off in a lil rant and thats cool.
If not, maybe you should before you let those fingers run away with your keyboard.
Uh, why are you pointing this out? Where did I object to the existence of the T-Cell Alpha or claim it had no reason to exist?
I said with the demise of the training forums, people started spending time in non-training forums, which may explain why they don’t frequent training forums. I made no comment on the T-Cell.
You are off and running on - you guessed it - another straw man. I know of T-Cell Alpha, support the reasons it exists, and think it is a good idea. Learn to read.[/quote]
No strawman involved…and you really should come up with another “catch phrase” because you have played that one to death.
Your post is below:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
makkun wrote:
As much as I despise pretty much everything HH stands for - I think I have to side with him on this one (damn, now I’ll have to wash out my mouth with soap).
Someone has voted him in, and someone must have tried to vote him out without even looking at what he had to contribute to the T-Cell. So much for a serious discussion, upholding certain standards, and a mature approach.
As nice as a cleaner training forum is - and I concede that although being opposed (even in the face of all these other tribunal, nutrition and GAL threads posted in there); it looks divisive, badly planned and hence a bit silly so far. I hope it doesn’t stay that way.
Well-stated, and the part that is absolutely the key that you highlighted is the standards. The point of T-Cell Alpha was to try and raise the standards - blackballing like this certainly doesn’t improve anything.
(and I feel your pain - here is you, Orion, and me agreeing…) :>[/quote]
In agreement with Makkun who stated the idea was “silly” and “divisive”.
If this does not mean you are against the idea…exactly how should I have understood it?
You did write that you agreed with that statement, right?
I mean, you did write, “(and I feel your pain - here is you, Orion, and me agreeing…)”, did you not?
But it is a huge leap for me to assume this means you are against the idea of it?
Honestly, where is the strawman…besides the one whispering in your ear?
[quote]dk44 wrote:
I like reading the T-Cell, and actually think it is a great idea!
BUT.
ProX (and others), what’s the beef with us posters who don’t post in the BB section? I know it’s not called Political Nation or Get A Life Nation, but I train and I patron supp’s from this site. Why do you wanna single people like me out? I have no desire to be in T-Cell (nor do I deserve to be or would I even post in it, just like I rarely post in the BB sect), I am 100% content to just read the great advice from those in the T-Cell. I enjoy the Political, Sex, and Get a life forums and I try to stick to wisecracking in them instead of cluttering up the important forums.
Edit:(ProX) I may have misunderstood you, and I am sorry if I did, you might have just being going off in a lil rant and thats cool. [/quote]
I could care less where you post. I just find it amazingly hilarious that some here think the idea of that forum is “silly” while they themselves spend most of their time on a BODYBUILDING FORUM only posting in the politics section…some of which NEVER post in any other section.
If that makes sense to you, let me know. THEN we would have something to debate.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
dk44 wrote:
I like reading the T-Cell, and actually think it is a great idea!
BUT.
ProX (and others), what’s the beef with us posters who don’t post in the BB section? I know it’s not called Political Nation or Get A Life Nation, but I train and I patron supp’s from this site. Why do you wanna single people like me out? I have no desire to be in T-Cell (nor do I deserve to be or would I even post in it, just like I rarely post in the BB sect), I am 100% content to just read the great advice from those in the T-Cell. I enjoy the Political, Sex, and Get a life forums and I try to stick to wisecracking in them instead of cluttering up the important forums.
Edit:(ProX) I may have misunderstood you, and I am sorry if I did, you might have just being going off in a lil rant and thats cool.
I could care less where you post. I just find it amazingly hilarious that some here think the idea of that forum is “silly” while they themselves spend most of their time on a BODYBUILDING FORUM only posting in the politics section…some of which NEVER post in any other section.
If that makes sense to you, let me know. THEN we would have something to debate.
[/quote]
Once again, I think the T-Cell is a great idea since the BB sect was being bogged down with stupidity, after all BB is the main focus of T-Nation and I understand that 100%.
I get what you’re selling. I thought you were calling my kind out! Sorry for the misunderstanding. You better not let it happen again!!!
I would have no problem with it not being anonymous. Maybe T-Nation will make that change. I disagree that someone’s conduct as a whole should not have an impact on whether they get to post in T-Alpha.[/quote]
Well said. If someone contributes very little in the way of any training discussions and only posts with the objective to stir shit, why would anyone think they will act differently in a forum made for the specific purpose of allowing uninhibited debate about bodybuilding and weight lifting?
Are people really surprised that your reputation would follow you in that scenario?
No strawman involved…and you really should come up with another “catch phrase” because you have played that one to death.[/quote]
It isn’t a catchphrase, genius - it is a specific logical fallacy you keep screwing up, no matter how many times the rest of us try and educate you as to your sloppiness.
[quote]Your post is below:
…
As nice as a cleaner training forum is - and I concede that although being opposed (even in the face of all these other tribunal, nutrition and GAL threads posted in there); it looks divisive, badly planned and hence a bit silly so far. I hope it doesn’t stay that way.
Well-stated, and the part that is absolutely the key that you highlighted is the standards. The point of T-Cell Alpha was to try and raise the standards - blackballing like this certainly doesn’t improve anything.
(and I feel your pain - here is you, Orion, and me agreeing…) :>[/quote]
It is divisive and badly planned - and the mechanics of the Tribunal are a perfect example of it. And, without a doubt, until T-Cell Alpha members learn to use the policing function with some level of maturity, the enterprise is absolutely silly - witness the ongoing high school drama with CaliforniaLaw’s “Tribunal” and the retaliatory nonsense, the very definition of making a silly exercise of a good idea - but I don’t think the T-Cell Alpha concept is a bad idea, and I said as much in another post when I said I wished we could institute such an approach in all forums.
You miss that post? Or did you just ignore it because it inconvenienced your point?
As for the joke about me, Makkun, and Orion agreeing - Makkun lamented the fact that he agreed with HH on the matter. I chuckled that unlikely allies me, Makkun, and Orion were also strange bedfellows. And we do: the Tribunal should not be used to “blackball” - that is what we agree on.
Yup, see above. And, in other posts, I made it clear I liked the idea. Again, did you miss that?
Stop wasting my time - as I said above, Makkun had to “wash his out with soap” because he was siding with his old opponent. I agree with Orion and Makkun on the point of the use of the Tribunal against HH - so I am “washing my mouth out with soap” as well for agreeing with posters I often disagree with.
No one seems particularly confused on this but you.
The strawman is assuming I am against the concept of the T-Cell Alpha, the reasons for it, and the use of the the Tribunal as a way to police trolling and clean up the discussion. In my first reply to you, I informed you straight away I didn’t disagree with any of that, yet you continue to assign me a point of view I don’t have.
Just read what is written - you are absolutely horrible with the straw man stuff, and it is getting tiresome.
I like the idea of a political forum, but I find it ridiculous that some here seem to ONLY post in this forum when this is just an “off topic” forum on a bodybuilding website. Many of those same people will then act as if they are superior to those who actually want to discuss serious training issues on a BODYBUILDING WEBSITE without the trolls and size-fearing newbies that have filled up this website recently.
That makes no sense.
The truth is, this forum has a place, but only in the sense that it is a small part of what this entire forum is about.
For many here to laugh at those that actually want this forum to remain faithful to lifting/bodybuilding/strength training means some here have lost focus as well.
[/quote]
Opps! Looks like ole DK44 should read all posts before making an ass out of himself! My apologies ProX.
I would have no problem with it not being anonymous. Maybe T-Nation will make that change. I disagree that someone’s conduct as a whole should not have an impact on whether they get to post in T-Alpha.
Well said. If someone contributes very little in the way of any training discussions and only posts with the objective to stir shit, why would anyone think they will act differently in a forum made for the specific purpose of allowing uninhibited debate about bodybuilding and weight lifting?
Are people really surprised that your reputation would follow you in that scenario?[/quote]
I would say this is a sound argument for not inviting them in in the first place. I can also see the logic of saying if that person wasn’t a good candidate for invitation why shouldn’t they be voted out immediately. Part of me just doesn’t want to do it that way. I’ve softened some on that view and maybe I’m wrong.
@ Headhunter:
Not having the time to research this for myself and only having the word of others, some I would’ve presumed (mistake) to be your political allies, it appears you have a history of which I was not aware as I rarely venture into the politics forum.
Jumping to the conclusion that I could grasp what type of person you were from a single post that I agreed with lured me into coming to your defense in the stereotypes thread.
It seems that was a mistake and if I’m mistaken now I’ll live with that until it becomes important enough for me to spend more time on it. I’m betting we do share at least some views, maybe not as much as I would’ve first thought, but not the way we communicate them.
Well, I guess I get to wear the T-Nation equivalent of the Star of David on my arm. Just got kicked out of a forum I didn’t ask to be admitted to, which I never posted in except in response to this, and where I got ‘tribbed’.
At firsr, I was told that I was not kicked out, that the 24 hours was over. I guess there was another trial I knew nothing about.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I would have no problem with it not being anonymous. Maybe T-Nation will make that change. I disagree that someone’s conduct as a whole should not have an impact on whether they get to post in T-Alpha.
Well said. If someone contributes very little in the way of any training discussions and only posts with the objective to stir shit, why would anyone think they will act differently in a forum made for the specific purpose of allowing uninhibited debate about bodybuilding and weight lifting?
Are people really surprised that your reputation would follow you in that scenario?
I would say this is a sound argument for not inviting them in in the first place. I can also see the logic of saying if that person wasn’t a good candidate for invitation why shouldn’t they be voted out immediately. Part of me just doesn’t want to do it that way. I’ve softened some on that view and maybe I’m wrong.
@ Headhunter:
Not having the time to research this for myself and only having the word of others, some I would’ve presumed (mistake) to be your political allies, it appears you have a history of which I was not aware as I rarely venture into the politics forum.
Jumping to the conclusion that I could grasp what type of person you were from a single post that I agreed with lured me into coming to your defense in the stereotypes thread.
It seems that was a mistake and if I’m mistaken now I’ll live with that until it becomes important enough for me to spend more time on it. I’m betting we do share at least some views, maybe not as much as I would’ve first thought, but not the way we communicate them.[/quote]
I have never been one to follow what others consider their enlightened opinion. I am myself. If you feel the need to join others to avoid their censure, go right ahead. If you feel, like the Prof, that someone should be excluded because of their political beliefs, go ahead. I know its hard to fight the crowd.
I have never been one to follow what others consider their enlightened opinion. I am myself. If you feel the need to join others to avoid their censure, go right ahead. If you feel, like the Prof, that someone should be excluded because of their political beliefs, go ahead. I know its hard to fight the crowd.
[/quote]
Laughing my fucking ass off. You were excluded because you are a jackass. I PICKED people who I can’t stand based on their political beliefs alone. Tedro is one of them. I also have no doubt that if we were in the same gym at the same time and politics were NOT part of the discussion, that I just might get along with him.
The only thing I don’t get…is why so many others can’t see how retarded you are.
Either way, this topic has been done to death.
You didn’t want in, you were kept out…end of story.
I have never been one to follow what others consider their enlightened opinion. I am myself. If you feel the need to join others to avoid their censure, go right ahead. If you feel, like the Prof, that someone should be excluded because of their political beliefs, go ahead. I know its hard to fight the crowd.
Laughing my fucking ass off. You were excluded because you are a jackass. I PICKED people who I can’t stand based on their political beliefs alone. Tedro is one of them. I also have no doubt that if we were in the same gym at the same time and politics were NOT part of the discussion, that I just might get along with him.
The only thing I don’t get…is why so many others can’t see how retarded you are.
Either way, this topic has been done to death.
You didn’t want in, you were kept out…end of story.
Cry me a fucking racist river.[/quote]
Secret trials…childish retaliations…keeping people out because they MIGHT write something you don’t like…
Yeah, Prof, let’s face it: you are an intellectual Nazi. You and guys like LankyMofo and Malonted want to exclude people who didn’t even want to be in your little ‘Reich’ in the first place. You and your fellow Brownshirts are all the same. Click on the link in my post above and feel right at home, Herr Paranoid Gauleiter.
I’m a bit confused - it seems that you have taken my quote “it looks divisive, badly planned and hence a bit silly so far. I hope it doesn’t stay that way.” to heart.
Let me explain: I was sceptical about the T-Cell not because I feared it may not achieve the desired results - better, more focused discussion on all things bodybuilding has indeed ensued. I was sceptical because I feared that there would be a ‘club mentality’ which doesn’t go with what I’d like to see T-Nation to be.
Indeed, the result has been better threads about bodybuilding, but with it came debates on who deserves to be a member, and how to get rid of undesirables. While this may be necessary, I was amazed how cack-handed it has been handled; and in my view this has led to division and infighting. It shows bad planning and it looks silly. Hence my earlier post. I stand by that.
The HeadHunter case shows: the system can and is being played by people who don’t seem to be interested in waiting for HH to ‘offend’ - they vote him off, and I think that sucks. It reflects badly upon the attitude of people within the Cell, and re-inforces my initial scepticism. That’s my criticism.
What I’m now having a problem with myself is this: it seems that it is ‘ridiculous’ that I voice this criticism because I pretty much only post in GAL and Politics. Yes everyone, it’s not ‘some people’ - it’s ME!
I’ll be happy to explain: I always accepted the authority of the authors and ‘vets’ who have been here longer (I read since 1999, but post only since 2004); this btw includes you. Being everything that is not wanted in the Bodybuilding forum (I’m one of those alledgedly non-existent ‘hardgainers’, I’ve practiced martial arts, I cycle, I don’t eat a whole cow per day, etc.), I’ve pretty much stayed out out of respect and because I followed the general rule of ‘shut up and learn’. What I cannot contribute in Training and Nutrition, I can somewhere else though.
What bugs me now greatly is that it is exactly that respect for and support of a ‘clean’ (from guys like me) and focused forum is held against me - rendering my views as ‘ridiculous’ on something that currently divides the Nation greatly. If that is the spirit embodied by the T-Cell, I really wouldn’t want to belong. I have indeed turned down my invitation to the T-Cell, as I disagree on principle - and also, because I don’t belong there. It would be nice if you showed me the same respect I have been showing you and your brethren over the years.
Makkun
PS: I may have to edit this one, as I’ve just hacked this post in quickly during my lunch break.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
I would have no problem with it not being anonymous. Maybe T-Nation will make that change. I disagree that someone’s conduct as a whole should not have an impact on whether they get to post in T-Alpha.
Well said. If someone contributes very little in the way of any training discussions and only posts with the objective to stir shit, why would anyone think they will act differently in a forum made for the specific purpose of allowing uninhibited debate about bodybuilding and weight lifting?
Are people really surprised that your reputation would follow you in that scenario?
I would say this is a sound argument for not inviting them in in the first place. I can also see the logic of saying if that person wasn’t a good candidate for invitation why shouldn’t they be voted out immediately. Part of me just doesn’t want to do it that way. I’ve softened some on that view and maybe I’m wrong.
@ Headhunter:
Not having the time to research this for myself and only having the word of others, some I would’ve presumed (mistake) to be your political allies, it appears you have a history of which I was not aware as I rarely venture into the politics forum.
Jumping to the conclusion that I could grasp what type of person you were from a single post that I agreed with lured me into coming to your defense in the stereotypes thread.
It seems that was a mistake and if I’m mistaken now I’ll live with that until it becomes important enough for me to spend more time on it. I’m betting we do share at least some views, maybe not as much as I would’ve first thought, but not the way we communicate them.
I have never been one to follow what others consider their enlightened opinion. I am myself. If you feel the need to join others to avoid their censure, go right ahead. If you feel, like the Prof, that someone should be excluded because of their political beliefs, go ahead. I know its hard to fight the crowd.
[/quote]
This is not cause of your poltical views. Others share many of your views on the issues and they are fine. This is because of deliberate trolling and efforts to stir up shit under the guise of ‘challenging’ other posters and creating interesting debate. Exactly what T-Cell Alpha has been generally free of and one reason why the level of discussion has been better there so far. You are even doing it in this thread, comparing your situation to Jim Crow and the Nazis. The comparisons are ridiculous.
Secret trials…childish retaliations…keeping people out because they MIGHT write something you don’t like…
Yeah, Prof, let’s face it: you are an intellectual Nazi. You and guys like LankyMofo and Malonted want to exclude people who didn’t even want to be in your little ‘Reich’ in the first place. You and your fellow Brownshirts are all the same. Click on the link in my post above and feel right at home, Herr Paranoid Gauleiter.
[/quote]
I quoted you here, but this is basically going to be my response for everything you’ve written.
Someone has admitted started the tribunal for you, so for assuming you did it yourself as some sort of stunt, I apologize. I was wrong. It seems right up your alley, but I was wrong. However, that doesn’t change my opinion of the whole situation of should you or shouldn’t you be in the t-cell.
I don’t see a problem with wanting to exclude people who don’t want to be in. It’s like trying to be friends with someone who doesn’t want to be friends back. I like the different views and different advice that is given in the t-cell. I haven’t seen you offer any which means you’re of no use to the cell. You don’t want to be part of it, and now you’re not. Somehow that’s a problem?
Pointing out that you have a V-diet log doesn’t actually mean you’re serious about your training. The fact that you even need to V-diet I think speaks volumes about how serious you are about training. That might offend some people (even in the t-cell, god forbid), but I really don’t care.
Your Crow references are completely ridiculous. I’m not even going to bother refuting them, as my slightly mentally retarded cousin can see the difference.