Up until a month ago i had been taking a weight lifting class in school (i am a freshman). During this class, when we did squats I was able to max out around 265 or higher. Recently the semester ended and i no longer have this class.
Fortunately, a couple weeks ago my dad bought a rack for me to squat/bench in w/out a spot. This past week i have been squatting 135 and doing higher rep sets. Today I thought i’d do a bit more on the squats and about an hour ago i attempted to do 225. I was EXTREMELY frustrated when i found that i couldnt bring the weight back up especially since earlier in the year i could do around 8 or so (estimate, dont remember) reps of this weight. I continued my workout at 5 sets of 3 reps with 185
OK, so i got lazy during christmas break and didnt do any lifting. That’s 2 weeks no lifting. I dont, however, see how this could cause me to lose 60 pounds on my squat max. I didnt even really even work hard during my weights class (regretably) 265 was about as much as i could do going in to the class without any prior weight training (it was probably around 250 when i begun the class)
So how could my squat drop 60 pounds in that amount of time?! Is it because i dont do any winter sports? (i played football this fall, like every fall )
One reason i can think of is because at school we used mantarays. I dont have a mantaray at home and didnt think it affected the amount of weight you could lift. Am i wrong? I dont see how it could.
Any help is GREATLY appreciated. I dont want to have to start training hard being 60 pounds in the hole. I want to be able to squat 300 by football season and until now i thought that goal was attainable. help anyone??
any links to programs to improve my explosive strength/overall leg strength are also very appreciated
I’m going to be checking this thread often so dont be afraid to ask questions.
I have no clue how you lost 60 pounds on your max squat. To tell you the truth, who cares why you did? Instead of trying to figure out why you lost all that strength, you should be focused on getting bigger, stronger, and faster. It sounds to me like the reason you got weaker, is because you were lazy. Just be consistent and stick with it and you will grow bigger and stronger. That is as long as you know what the hell you are doing. Just work from where you are. Almost always when somebody has a layoff they lose strength. Don’t worry about it. Just bust your ass and don’t ever stop.
there are lots of variables that could contribute to such a reduction… simply the time of day youre training might cause you to lift different amounts. I wouldnt worry about it too much though. Like the other guy said, just work from where you are at getting to where you want to be. there is no point in looking at where you were.
Did you squat 265, or did you do a max rep out test?
I’d suggest training your posterior chain a lot (good mornings, deadlift variations, pull throughs, GHR’s, etc etc etc) you should be able to power up 300 if you get after it.
Ok Wek, first I’m going to demonstrate something. I by no means have the best legs, but mine are pretty good considering I only did high school sports my last two years and I don’t have any sports other than lifting.
And to be honest with you…I recently only though my max squat was only 270 or so, but I realized it’s a tad higher than that. There are a few things I’ve learned w/ leg training. For one, the weight DOESN’T MATTER. Weight is not the god of squatting, Form is. First off, if you actually want to work your full quadricep muscle (both superior and inferior portions) you need to get low. So the best thing you can do is make sure you get all the way down and make sure your weight stays on the middle of your foot, or more towards the back of it, otherwise you’ll start bending over and and use your back too much. Also at the bottom it is OK to bend over a little bit, just a little, to get a bit lower, and this will help develop your hamstrings more.
Also you want to point your feet outwards at times.
Also your base, don’t go too wide or you’ll get no quad development. I got most of my size working with under 200lb weights, but beating the shit out of myself with form.
I used to hate squatting, I complained to my weight room instructor backw hen I took weights everyday about it, but to be honest, it’s the most important thing you can do.
So here’s what I’m really trying to preach…don’t neccessarily go for how much weight, go for what challenges you. BTW, taking 2 weeks off of lifting will generally make you stronger when you come back in a lot of casees because it gives your muscles a great chance to rest and hypertrophy. It’s needed every once in awhile after a hard training cycle, and allows you to explode again when you restart training. So if you want, next time I squat I’ll go to the gym with a camera and show you how to do it. But there are plenty of good articles on T-mag about it.
Jason
Your layoff probably didn’t help but I suspect the fact that you aren’t using a manta ray makes a alot more difference than you’d think.
It will change the movement pattern as I believe you found by changing the angle of the upper torso and hence the stress on the muscles used. Don’t worry give it a couple of weeks and your squat w/o will climb rapidly as you get used to the difference. Do you notice any change in your body angle or stress on the shoulders? Also where does the bar sit?
Creed- It seems like the weight is… making me lean forward now that i dont have the mantaray. I have been positioning the bar on the ‘shelf’ that is formed by my shoulder blades. Does the fact that i am leaning forward suggest any specific areas of weakness??
Landon- In a little while we will be getting a glute-ham machine. I plan on training them on that I will also try all those excersizes you suggested. Thanks. PS. i actually squatted the 265.
Protienpowa- I see what you are saying about the form, and i try to do the best form i can when i squat. The reason i am so concerned about how much weight i can do is because i play defensive end and i need to be able to move fatties around especially this year since i wont just be playing vs. other freshman.
wek
Never used one but looking at the manta ray I can imagine that because of the way the bar clips in, it would pull your shoulders back and hence more upright. W/O it the load pushes/pulls you forward, this is quite normal, you are just not used to it and it could be that your lower back needs to get stronger to compensate for this extra torque at the hips.
Landon recommends some good exercises for the posterior chain. I think good mornings in particular would really help your lower back.
You are working your squat muscles in an unfamiluar way and it will take time to adjust.
Wek - The better your form, the higher the resistance load will be on your legs. If you bend over too much a good portion of the resistance will go towards your back and you won’t become anywhere near as strong when coming out of your pre-stance. In your case you seriously want to become strong at the bottom portion of the squat rather than the top since this will translate the most into the real world.
From the viewpoint of how your brain controls movement patterns, yes, the manta ray can make a lot of difference. It distributes the weight comfortably across a fairly large area. Also, with just the bar, you have more balancing and control work to do. For similar examples, consider how a well-loaded backpack is easier to carry, just based on weight distribution. Horses can run faster when jockeys distribute weight as far forward as possible. Etc.
If you were to go out and buy a manta ray and squat with it today, I bet you could do more weight with it than without. But with continued practice with just the bar, that gap will narrow. It’s neural/motor learning. And motor learning is quite specific.
Funny this came up. I did squats last night for the first time in about a year without a Manta Ray. I swore by it and was worried about not using it as my back used to get sore without it. However last night I breezed through my squats without the manta ray at weights that gave me slight trouble with the manta ray. I think it may have helped me with my form for when I don’t use it.
The manta ray will put more stress on your lower back, and can be useful for that purpose.
What type of form are you using? Wide stance, close stance, ass to grass, parallel? Is there a possibility your form changed from when you were using the manta ray? Also, different shoes and even different lifting pants can all make a difference.
The ghr will probably help you a lot.
If you haven’t already, read Dave Tate’s articles on squatting. I think they’re called ‘squat 900 pounds’ and ‘squatting head to toe.’
There’s no reason you can’t do at least 300 by the end of summer.
Manta-Rays can make a HUGE difference in terms of weight squatted with/without it on the bar.
I hate using the damn thing, but because of the way my arms and wrists setup without it (due to bad shoulders), I suffer an incredible amount of pain just trying to stabilize anything more than 225 when I fail to use it.
My lifts suffer when I go raw, because I can’t focus on the squat…just the pain shooting across my shoulders. Obviously, I need some ART therapy or something.
when i squat i usually start the bar kinda high and slowly roll it about half a turn down my back before my start my decent. the knurling really digs into my back, kinda gives me security, not to mention a lower bar position that you can’t get with a manta
Having a decent set of traps and a wide, thick back helps keep the bar better set on the back.
A big pointer I have realized lately with all I have read about posterior chains and ab support is to keep your abs tight, especially coming in, setting, and out of the hole. I don’t wear a belt, but my abs still are clenched the entire time and that has helped me feel a lot more confident with heavier weight.
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