My Squat Progress

bodyweight: 60kg

november 6 2010, 40kg (front squat 1RM)
january 3, 2011, 42.5kg
april 27, 2011, 45kg for 2 singles
june 23, 2011, crashed and burned on RSR 3x3 second set @ 42.5kg
october 25, 2011, 47.5kg

bodyweight 66.5kg

january 3, 52.5kg

bodyweight 68kg

current max tested @ 50kg. might get 52.5kg on a good day.

i know OBJECTIVELY my numbers suck…

but how about with respect to PROGRESS?

in other words…

am i doing something wrong (i should be able to make more rapid progress) or do i just need to keep on doing what i’m doing and in about 10 years i might be sorta kinda strongish??

actually this is probably pretty relevant:

2003 i had massive impact injury to feet. wheelchair for 3 months then crutches for 3 months. walking was severely limited after that (did better than anticipated - but severe ankle inflammation after brisk walking more than about 2ks per day). I did a little biking but not much.

September 2009 first joined the gym at the age of 30.

you know those dinky little plate loaded fixed machines that have numbers written on the weight plates (1, 2, 3) and don’t even list how much each plate weighs? i remember 4 of those plates being work for 3x10 the leg press to start with. and two of them being work for knee flexion and knee extension. progress for three months… then learning bodyweight movements. took a few months to get the mobility for a full range squat and mobility and balance for lunges.

worked my ass off with 5kg to start with on 5x5 front and back squats… plate loaded front squats (5kg plate)… lots of work to build up to using the 15kg bar… lots of work and very slow (I think) progress to get to the 40kg 1RM a year later.

I know it is pathetic, right - but I remember falling into a comatose sleep the first time I managed 25kg for 5x5. Goddam… It felt like 5x5 @ 42.5kg would be to me now…


I guess my question really is whether there is something fucking wrong with my programming or whether my progress is alright given the circumstances.

I mean… I’ve trained bench a little bit. Nowhere near as much as squats. I mean, really, nowhere near. But my max bench is the same as my max front squat. And I have worked my ass off on squats, I swear. A variety of things… 5x5 mostly, some 8x3, some 6x6, some doubles, some triples… The odd set of 10 and sets of 20 once just to see… Increase volume when technique seems problematic, test my maxes when the movement is feeling comfortable (not to say easy). 3-6 days a week (lots of overhead squatting for mobility, too).

Just keep on…

Or get with a fucking program already??

Oh. Past feedback on technique in response to vids suggests that I do need to work on hip drive out the hole (go go magic glutes) but aside from that my technique is passable. And I do hit the same depth every fucking time.

** sorry my post(s) are so long but this is really (really really) eating at me. I just went through all my fucking training logs to dig out that info.

(there are patterns with respect to bashing my head failing to increase the weights on 5 or 6 reps (for a few weeks) then backing off and doing mobility / technique (for a few weeks) then hitting PR. and / or bashing my head failing to stand up a heavy clean (for a week) then when I back off and do mobility / technique (for about a week) then hitting PR.)

the bashing
then backing off
then PR

seems to be the 3 things.

so, uh, program accordingly??

I don’t have any answers for you but you really have come a long way so don’t sell yourself short.

One thing that comes to mind is all the mobility work you do and now that I’m having issues with my hips and spending a lot of time stretching and rolling and all that crap or I have tight muscles my squat strength just plummets. Do you think think you might have a lot of inflammation in the parts of your legs that were injured? If that sounds plausible maybe trying to deal with inflammation might be a thought?

Also, what about following some bodybuilding routines to add some muscle? (just throwing thoughts out there)

hi.

right now i’m doing 5/3/1 for front squats. only… i’m leaving 1-2 days between sessions instead of doing only one session per week. so, uh, maybe i don’t get to call it 5/3/1 anymore… but i’m doing the BBB assistance. 5x10 front squats with just 20kg for now but work for me since it is a new rep range. doing the + reps, too… then doing the BBB for it straight after. volume ftw is my current strategy… then if i stall… i’ll do some back off light stuff for a bit and should hit new PR i’m guessing?? perhaps.

i have been gaining weight (aiming to add muscle). not able to afford as much protein as i used to, though, so am seriously worrying that now i’m adding flab rather than muscle and might be time to lose some flab and see what i got.

feeling a little less demoralized now that i’ve looked into strength standards a little bit more. turns out i don’t suck quite as much as i was thinking…

i just got it into my head that i should have a bodyweight front squat after one year. and it has been like three years and i’m still nowhere close. and i want a 1.5 bodyweight deadlift too, dammit. though that is getting a little closer (and i think i might actually be able to get it if i stiff leg it and suck up a little bit of back rounding, too). hrm.

know i got some crunchy ankle stuff going on that problematizes my dip for jerking… aside from that i don’t think my ankles are problematic.

know something i’ve never tried that most everyone else seems to???

cutting the ROM short and loading up. like… really heavy quarter squats or half squats. rack pulls. stuff like that. i’ve never done any of that. maybe i should set the pins up in the squat rack and do some andersons. see how much weight i can move that way? maybe something like that would be good to do…

(or maybe i should be careful of training schizophrenia)

(or maybe it doesn’t really matter so long as i work hard i’ll keep on keeping on)

We are not all equipped to keep improving our performance in particular sports, for any number of reasons (hormonal, structural, time, age, etc.). The question to ask–and that only you can answer–is why you are training.

If you are training for performance improvement, the evidence suggests that, for whatever mix of reasons (structural, hormonal, etc.), your improvement is objectively quite slow, as a ratio of effort put in to results obtained. If you are training for psychological reasons, then neither progress nor absolute performance matter. You train because you enjoy it. Is it absolutely necessary to have a ‘training effect’ to justify your training? Only if you want there to be.

Since my return to training, I keep a log that tracks my results. I analyze my progress every week using Stata. I’m not going to stop training if my progress stalls. However, based on a 20-year training history, I already know how quickly I should be improving. If I start falling apart because of age-related fragility or what-not, I would only ‘bash’ a few times before finding something else to do. I’m motivated by performance improvement.

I’m addicted to improvement first and weightlifting second, as a convenient and honest measure of improvement. However, qualitatively, I feel just as good learning languages as I do making PRs or training. Some people aren’t like that. They’re managing depression or some other underlying mental condition by means of the gym. Which is fine!

You’re only doing ‘something wrong’ if you really care about performance. If you just like being in the gym and participating on forums, then performance shouldn’t mater. If you fall into the performance camp, then I’d say your body might be sending you a signal that it might not be well-suited to lifting weights. But if you fall into the enjoyment camp, why worry? You’re doing an activity that you clearly love. Do you HAVE to improve it at?

I guess I’m reluctant to accept that I ‘just suck’ at this without considering other options first. Like how people are fast to blame crappy genetics instead of looking at their nutrition etc.

Sometimes I think I really do suck…

But other times I think I’m not so bad. Had a look at strength standards again and I’m doing about right for 1-2 years of serious training since my first year can’t really count because of how I really was starting from a more injured / decrepit place than most.

I blamed my inflexible ankles for my crappy front squat for quite a while there. About how it put my hips behind the bar so I couldn’t drive it up properly with my glutes. But then someone pointed out that powerlifters have their hips behind rather than under the bar and manage to drive up with their glutes just fine.

And that is right.

So that is that excuse out the window.

I kind of want to say I’m not built for it… But other people are built just like me and they do much much much much better so that can’t be it…

I’d keep at it if this was it for me. I would. But seems to me I’d be freaking silly to take that if I could get things moving more quickly…

Do you really make faster gains than me percentage-wise? Or is the issue more that one should be able to snatch bodyweight after… How long again??


There are some things to keep in mind.

First, the gains of a detrained person are typically the fastest because of the enormous increases in motor pattern efficiency. Your greatest progress should have come in those first three years. The fact that it didn’t–despite very clear and hard effort on your part–suggests to me that your body is not supercompensating as quickly as it should, for any number of possible reasons.

We’re all experiments of one, so none of what I say is meant to sound like a rule. I can’t back it up with studies. However, in over 20 years of training, some of which overlapped with watching the Turkish national weightlifting team train, I can honestly say that every single weightlifter I’ve personally seen has improved the fastest, percentage-wise, in the first 1-3 years.

You can get everything wrong (nutrition, form, etc.) and still make great gains in those years as long as you are training consistently and hard (which it seems you are). If you don’t make rapid gains in that time, then something is wrong with your body’s response, not the training.

I don’t have my older training logs in front of me now. However, from what I remember, my untrained front squat went from 95 pounds the first time I tried (it must have been in 1997) to 280 pounds in 1999, and I am a horrible responder to training. My wrists are 5 inches around, which is less than my wife’s wrist circumference (and she weighs 120 pounds). I have friends who quadrupled their squats in a comparable time-frame.

I became completely detrained in 2010-2011. I didn’t touch a weight for two years. Then I started training again about two months ago. I’m attaching a graphic of my front squat progress, from 200 pounds cold on day 1 to 257 on day 48. Obviously, that number is not at all sustainable, and I don’t expect it to be, but it’s about a 29% strength increase in less than 2 months. Because of my detrained state, I consider this fully equivalent to ‘newbie’ gains. Percentage-wise, it took me 48 days to obtain the increase in your front squat that it took you 3 years to achieve.

I’m not saying this to be an asshole. My genetics are bad to ordinary. I was once playing soccer with Halil Mutlu and I ran into him. It hurt. He was so damn dense that contact with him, just at normal speed, bruised me and threw me back, and at the time I was 40 pounds heavier than him. Erol Bilgin, another 62 kilo Turkish lifter at the time, went from front squatting the bar to 140 kilos in something like 3-4 years. These are strong responders. I’m an ordinary responder. From what I know of your training history, you’re a very weak responder. You’ve put in the work, your form is good, everything is good–except, for whatever reason, your body isn’t responding.

I’m an ever worse responder at cardio than weightlifting. You could give me 5 good years of training and I could never, even run a 6-minute mile.

It’s like unrequited love. Do you do what you love, even if it doesn’t love you? That’s the question some lifters, especially the less gifted ones (or the gifted ones, when they hit a plateau), have to ask. Honestly, from your posts, it seems you’ve done more than enough work. Could it be your hormonal profile that is somehow holding you back? I don’t know enough about that kind of stuff; maybe it’s worth investigating.

[quote]alexus wrote:
I guess I’m reluctant to accept that I ‘just suck’ at this without considering other options first. Like how people are fast to blame crappy genetics instead of looking at their nutrition etc.

Sometimes I think I really do suck…

But other times I think I’m not so bad. Had a look at strength standards again and I’m doing about right for 1-2 years of serious training since my first year can’t really count because of how I really was starting from a more injured / decrepit place than most.

I blamed my inflexible ankles for my crappy front squat for quite a while there. About how it put my hips behind the bar so I couldn’t drive it up properly with my glutes. But then someone pointed out that powerlifters have their hips behind rather than under the bar and manage to drive up with their glutes just fine.

And that is right.

So that is that excuse out the window.

I kind of want to say I’m not built for it… But other people are built just like me and they do much much much much better so that can’t be it…

I’d keep at it if this was it for me. I would. But seems to me I’d be freaking silly to take that if I could get things moving more quickly…

Do you really make faster gains than me percentage-wise? Or is the issue more that one should be able to snatch bodyweight after… How long again??[/quote]

Hi Alexus,

I certainly dont make fast gains. Knee issues for me rather than ankle ones are the excuse. That and being over 6 feet tall with proportionately long legs. And not taking up oly training til in my 30’s. Oh yes, and being light for my height (relatively) at 95kg. Plus having a bit of a spare tyre. The list is endless when explaining my poor lifting numbers. I doubt I’ll ever snatch bodyweight

I did a competition a few months ago (masters) where only 2 men of any age and any bodyweight did a c and j of over 100kg.

So I think your numbers are good.

I would think that you are better at the olympic lifts than 99.99% of the female over 30 population of NZ

pretty good going

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

I would think that you are better at the olympic lifts than 99.99% of the female over 30 population of NZ

[/quote]

ahahaha. i do believe i’m the only female registered in my weightclass.

it would mean so very much more to me if athletes who are generally athletic but didn’t train olympic lifts specifically weren’t capable of easily powering it. if i go up or down a weightclass i’ll get my ass kicked… and i do believe a powerlifting chick is in the process of registering so that will be that…

oh wells…

re: the hormonal profile thing - you got that i’m a chick, right? a little lacking in testosterone probably. and, uh… going from literally not being able to stand myself up out the hole in a relaxed asian squat to being able to stand myself up out the hole with 40kg is a percentage increase of how much?? quite a lot. i mean… when i started i couldn’t lift my bodyweight on the leg press with partial range of motion.

i don’t think you are an asshole. i greatly appreciate your taking the time to try and help.

i certainly won’t give in.

i’m just tossing up the autoregulate type strategy that i’ve been doing for a while now… and considering the alternative of a more structured program. some people say structured program for better gains. others say intensity is more important. i’m not sure what is best for me. whether to keep on and be happy with the progress i’m getting or whether i should be disappointed in the progress i’m getting and should move to a program ASAP.

i guess…

i’m not really good enough for it to matter. i mean… autoregulating is more fun for me. keep the joy. i do suck it up at times when i worry i’m going to easy on myself. maybe i could be better doing things differently. meh. i’ve only been at this for a few years. i’ll get back to you in another 10 or 20.

thanks people.

“going from literally not being able to stand myself up out the hole in a relaxed asian squat to being able to stand myself up out the hole with 40kg is a percentage increase of how much?? quite a lot. i mean… when i started i couldn’t lift my bodyweight on the leg press with partial range of motion.”

See, that’s what matters. You’re far stronger as a weightlifter than you would have been otherwise. Even if progress is slow, it’s much better than not having trained at all.

Yes, I did get that you are a woman and wasn’t assuming that you have high levels of testosterone. Still, the endocrine system is complex. Case in point: Many people are on thyroid medication, while is catabolic and reduces bone density (which, of course, lowers strength). That’s why it might be a good idea to have a whole hormone panel done and review your medications, if you are taking any.

How has your weight increased?

I did do 35/45 when I was 15 and 75kg. 3yrs later I did 100/120 @ 77kg, I think I FS about 135 or maybe 140? Again as you see not that strong for relatively okay numbers.

22yrs old, 83.5kg 116/142 but only FS about 160.

BUT from 2007 to 2009 where I gained no bw I did not improve at all in my FS or my OLifts. COMPLETE ZERO GAINS in comp :frowning:

2009-2010 I worked on my BS and went up from 183 to 201 and added 10kg to my FS to get to 170, got to 120/145.

I don’t seem to make any gains when I don’t add bw. I tripled 180 today but I’m also 97 odd in the morning is my guess. I weighed in at a crazy 101kg with my training gear and belt on!

I’ve never seen anyone not make strong gains in the first 1-3yrs of training, if they came at least 2-3x a week and trained consistently in that time.

Both my bros are very strong squaters, 145 @72 for a 16yr old, 190 @ 76, 5’7, for a 26yr old 5’5, I’m the only one who has not FS 2x bw! They are all shorter than me also.

The ankle injury will hamper your squats. one of my ex lifters use to lean on his Cleans but he was in a motorbike crash so that was that, he FS 165 very fast, within 18months of training and was weighing 85-88kg?! and the strongest guy I’ve met off the cuff! Really strong squats!

Keep plugging away. Maybe your training too much?

Try squating twice a week, one day to a 3RM edging by 0.5kg or so, and the other taking 5kg off and getting a moderate 3reps in? Also remember 1kg of 40/50 is a lot bigger a % then 1 of 150kg+. SO try and edge 0.5kg per week. Got to be patient and just grind through hit.

There is no reason why you can’t add 10kg on to your squat this year. NO REASON. Take a systematic approach. Try the above and see if you can’t edge 0.25kg a week or 0.5kg a week. That will give you 10kg in a year.

I think a person should be able to PB in something in a 4 week training period if they are training at least 8-12 in that period, barring any illness something weird imo.

Koing

Do you know where your weakness is? I wonder if addressing that might help? Back? Glutes? Hamstrings or quads?

I am not as seasoned in these movements as Koing, but I can sahre a little of my experience.

I used to back squat with perfect form for solid reps, but not very much weight. When I went heavier, my form broke down and I missed lifts. This went on for over a year. Then I started working with some more experienced powerlifters, and they told me to keep the weight I was using, but instead of keeping the tight controlled reps, they coached me to really accelerate the weight - try to make the bar move so fast it would almost pop off my shoulders at the top.

After doing this for 6 weeks, one of the other lifts threw an extra 25lbs on each side of the bar without telling me, and I moved the bar at the same speed as the weights I had been using. In the 6 months that followed, my backsquat went from a 330lbs (150kg) to 429lbs (195kg) in a meet, at 220lbs (100kg) BW. I had been stuck in the low 3’s for about 4 years.

In addition to the acceleration, I played around with my stance width, foot position, and bar placement. It is really amazing how much stronger I felt the first time I spread my feet a little wider and turned my toes more inward, closer to parallel. It felt like a different exercise.

Sometimes we get inside our own heads, and predefine our limitations, so we never find out how strong we really are. I honestly think that backing out of the rack with 315+ always kinda scared me, even in a safety cage. When I started driving the weight fast, I focused on that, and forgot to be scared.

The other trick for me was after setting up and before breaking my hips to start the decent, I would smile confidently. I know, if sounds really cheesy, but there is research that shows changing your facial expression cuases major physiologic changes. By smiling confidently, I was changing my whole mind set from “be careful not to stumble setting up” to “I am going to own this @#$%@!”

[quote]orcrist wrote:
I am not as seasoned in these movements as Koing, but I can sahre a little of my experience.

I used to back squat with perfect form for solid reps, but not very much weight. When I went heavier, my form broke down and I missed lifts. This went on for over a year. Then I started working with some more experienced powerlifters, and they told me to keep the weight I was using, but instead of keeping the tight controlled reps, they coached me to really accelerate the weight - try to make the bar move so fast it would almost pop off my shoulders at the top.

After doing this for 6 weeks, one of the other lifts threw an extra 25lbs on each side of the bar without telling me, and I moved the bar at the same speed as the weights I had been using. In the 6 months that followed, my backsquat went from a 330lbs (150kg) to 429lbs (195kg) in a meet, at 220lbs (100kg) BW. I had been stuck in the low 3’s for about 4 years.

In addition to the acceleration, I played around with my stance width, foot position, and bar placement. It is really amazing how much stronger I felt the first time I spread my feet a little wider and turned my toes more inward, closer to parallel. It felt like a different exercise.

Sometimes we get inside our own heads, and predefine our limitations, so we never find out how strong we really are. I honestly think that backing out of the rack with 315+ always kinda scared me, even in a safety cage. When I started driving the weight fast, I focused on that, and forgot to be scared.

The other trick for me was after setting up and before breaking my hips to start the decent, I would smile confidently. I know, if sounds really cheesy, but there is research that shows changing your facial expression cuases major physiologic changes. By smiling confidently, I was changing my whole mind set from “be careful not to stumble setting up” to “I am going to own this @#$%@!” [/quote]

I scream before I take the bar out of the rack. It always feels lighter to me this way :slight_smile:

Yes when squating always drive your hips in as soon as you can when you squat up. your hips will behind your shoulders a bit but you want them going forwards as soon as you can. This will save the heavier reps on the squats. You want to go up out of the squats as fast as you can, but try and not bounce too much.

Koing

[quote]alexus wrote:

[quote]bluebrasil wrote:

I would think that you are better at the olympic lifts than 99.99% of the female over 30 population of NZ

[/quote]

ahahaha. i do believe i’m the only female registered in my weightclass.

it would mean so very much more to me if athletes who are generally athletic but didn’t train olympic lifts specifically weren’t capable of easily powering it. if i go up or down a weightclass i’ll get my ass kicked… and i do believe a powerlifting chick is in the process of registering so that will be that…

[/quote]

aye, I realised that there were going to be many of you in that category, but I dont think that changes the significance of what you do.

Even if the powerlifting chic does compete and does better than you,you’ll still be the number 2 lifter in your class. Which is terrific.

You can only compete against those who chose to enter.Its not your fault almost no over 30 female Kiwi’s lift (is a female Kiwi a Kiwette?). That gets into all sorts of arguememts. Is Bolt the fastest sprinter? or is my Cousin Jimmy faster? But Jimmy doesnt compete, so it will never be proven. Until Jimmy competes, Bolt is the fastest.

Likewise you are numero uno until someone else comes along.

You may not lift as much as you want to, but are the best lifter in your category. You cant do better than that.

Alexus have your lifts gone up?

Visualizing successful lifts at goal weights helps as well. Sometimes our brains will put limits on the body and our lifts stall for no physical reason.

I’m no great lifter, but I’ve gone far beyond what I thought I could do simply by forcing myself to believe I could. Seeing myself lifting my goal weight with great clarity over and over.

Also, for lifts where it was possible, I did near-full-range partial movements with weights heavier than my max in certain movements, often for reps. I don’t know that doing so has a direct training effect, but it certainly made me recalibrate my expectations regarding what “heavy” was. Subsequent sessions would see an improvement in the full range lift. I’d be doing that now if I had access to a power cage, actually.

It took me two years bringing my front squat from 115(52kg) to 265(120kg). My doctor told me due to my lower back pain I should back off back squat so I decided do some front squat instead.

I do lower reps, mostly 10x3 or 5x5 cuz some internet guru said so. I feel that front squat is a great core exercise, after a few weeks front squat, I can plank more than 5 mins with without pain face. Now I just don’t do plank anymore cuz I feel it’s too easy for me.

Ankle mobility is not a problem, keep working on it and put two plates under your heel.

It does not have much carryover effects on back squat. After two yrs of front squat training, my back squat stays in the same level.