My Road to Elite

Training Training Logs
841

Hey sport, you’ve got me thinking about testing a 13 week Sheiko template. I’ve read this thread from beginning to end and even though you respond well to higher volume, others may not. But, I’m a firm believer in mixing up workout programs over time.

My current program torches my CNS so I’ve got to change things up for the coming year. I could develop my own template by building in some deload time, but I think there might be more advantages to a tailored Sheiko template.

Some of the advantages I’ve noticed:
Good conditioning of tendons and ligaments.
Opportunity to groove good form.
Built-in deload.
Lessens chances for injury.

Some of the perceived disdavantages:
Only focuses on the big three lifts.
Difficulty knowing your 1RM.
Workouts take a long time.

Based on your experience, are there other advantages/disadvantages I’m not aware of?
I’m not going to bore everyone with my current program because it might derail your thread. Just looking for a little more Sheiko insight.

Thanks!

842

[quote]novaeer wrote:

It will probably get there in the PM, so hopefully it gets to you in time for your training session. Just add ten bucks to the previously negotiated rate and all will be even.[/quote]

Perfect, that will actually give me a day to get it adjusted if need be.

Thanks again!

843

[quote]Bagger wrote:
Hey sport, you’ve got me thinking about testing a 13 week Sheiko template. I’ve read this thread from beginning to end and even though you respond well to higher volume, others may not. But, I’m a firm believer in mixing up workout programs over time.

My current program torches my CNS so I’ve got to change things up for the coming year. I could develop my own template by building in some deload time, but I think there might be more advantages to a tailored Sheiko template.

Some of the advantages I’ve noticed:
Good conditioning of tendons and ligaments.
Opportunity to groove good form.
Built-in deload.
Lessens chances for injury.

Some of the perceived disdavantages:
Only focuses on the big three lifts.
Difficulty knowing your 1RM.
Workouts take a long time.

Based on your experience, are there other advantages/disadvantages I’m not aware of?
I’m not going to bore everyone with my current program because it might derail your thread. Just looking for a little more Sheiko insight.

Thanks![/quote]

Actually it would be useful for you to put your current routine up.

Do you feel comfortable maxing out in the squat and deadlift now, or are you still a little unsure about your low back?

I think your perceived advantages are right on, I’d include a couple more:

-less taxing on central nervous system than many strength-centric programs

-gives you a basis for the amount of volume your body responds to, thus you can adjust in future cycles

As far as the disadvantages go:
-only focuses on big 3 lifts (this could be considered as advantage depending on your perspective); either way I do think a person needs to throw in ab work and upper back work and I have seen a couple of preparatory cycles that Sheiko programmed for Belaeyev and these were no doubt in there with high volume no surprise.

-difficulty knowing your 1RM (I’m not entirely sure I understand this one, you test at the end of the program)

-workouts take a long time (a person could get most of the workouts done in 2 hours or slightly less if they are inclined to move relatively quickly. I personally abhor doing things quickly unless I absolutely have to.)

-I believe the biggest disadvantage to Sheiko is the amount of low back fatigue that can build-up. I think a lot of ab work: ab wheel, leg raises, Palloff presses, landmines, etc., and soft tissue work on the low back (tennis balls work great for me), can both help a lot. Other than that I wouldn’t hesitate to throw in an alternate movement for good mornings. I’ll look up Sheiko’s list when I get the chance.

One other thing is that Dave Bates has designed a lower volume Sheiko-inspired 13 week program that people have been getting good results from. I’d post the link but I’ve been reprimanded twice now for posting links so if you are interested in the program I will pm it to you.

844

I just read your log over the past two or so weeks - great work, and a good read, too. Since you’ve gotten me interested, could you PM me the Dave Bates Sheiko program as well. I won’t get around to an implementation until April, but would like to have a look at it in the interim. Thanks.

845

[quote]mrodock wrote:

Actually it would be useful for you to put your current routine up.

Do you feel comfortable maxing out in the squat and deadlift now, or are you still a little unsure about your low back?
[/quote]

Here is a sample of my current routine for Chest Day. I do similar volume/% for Leg, Back, and Shoulder days.

Bench
1x8 50%
3x5 70%
2x5 80%
2x2 90%

Incline Bench
1x5 50%
1x8 65%
2x5 80%

Decline Bench - Smith
3x5 80%
1x3 90%

Bar Dips
1x10BW
1x10 65%
3x8 80%

Skull Crushers
3x8 80%

Flys
3x8 75%

This has been working well, but I never do a light week. I adjust the big lift poundages about 5 lbs every 6-8 weeks.

Stats:
Age 50
5’9 - 195lbs
Bench Max 335lbs
Squat and Deadlift Max are unknown right now, but I can comfortably do 315 x 5 on each.
All raw of course.

Thanks a bunch for the feedback. I’m tempted to stay with my current program but build in a light week every 4 weeks. Sheiko is very attractive because it builds tendon/ligament durability and also grooves good form. Not sure if I have the luxury of time though.

846

[quote]Bagger wrote:

[quote]mrodock wrote:

Actually it would be useful for you to put your current routine up.

Do you feel comfortable maxing out in the squat and deadlift now, or are you still a little unsure about your low back?
[/quote]

Here is a sample of my current routine for Chest Day. I do similar volume/% for Leg, Back, and Shoulder days.

Bench
1x8 50%
3x5 70%
2x5 80%
2x2 90%

Incline Bench
1x5 50%
1x8 65%
2x5 80%

Decline Bench - Smith
3x5 80%
1x3 90%

Bar Dips
1x10BW
1x10 65%
3x8 80%

Skull Crushers
3x8 80%

Flys
3x8 75%

This has been working well, but I never do a light week. I adjust the big lift poundages about 5 lbs every 6-8 weeks.

Stats:
Age 50
5’9 - 195lbs
Bench Max 335lbs
Squat and Deadlift Max are unknown right now, but I can comfortably do 315 x 5 on each.
All raw of course.

Thanks a bunch for the feedback. I’m tempted to stay with my current program but build in a light week every 4 weeks. Sheiko is very attractive because it builds tendon/ligament durability and also grooves good form. Not sure if I have the luxury of time though.[/quote]

So you are handling a high volume on bench with a pretty high intensity.

You could also work with Dave Bate’s reduced volume Sheiko-inspired program which has yielded some really good results for lifters and probably could be done pretty quickly.

As far as building tendons/ligaments, look up Thibaudeau’s Beast Building article. One of the phases has some tendon/ligament high rep type stuff.

847

[quote]aut-x-rs wrote:
I just read your log over the past two or so weeks - great work, and a good read, too. Since you’ve gotten me interested, could you PM me the Dave Bates Sheiko program as well. I won’t get around to an implementation until April, but would like to have a look at it in the interim. Thanks.[/quote]

I feel like there should be a prize for someone that reads the whole damn thing. Thanks for the congratulations and glad you enjoyed it.

There is a Dave Bate’s Sheiko program based on Sheiko 29, 37, and 32 in the article “Sheiko Shakes up Powerlifting” on this site. Dave Bate’s then wrote a program for people that prefer less volume. I’ll send a PM with a link to that program.

848

Week 8, Day 1 (disappointment builds character)

Squat (Ivanko bar)
1x8x135
1x5x225 (50%)
1x3x270 (60%)
1x2x315 (70%)
1x1x360 (80%)
suit (straps down, wraps)
1x1x455
straps up, wraps (Convicts)
1x1x510 (85%)
3x1x540 (90%)

Bench (paused)
1x5x135
1x2x185
1x1x205
42 Fury
1x1x255 (no touch)
1x1x285 (no touch)
4x0x305 (missed last 3 about an inch from lockout)

Lat Pulldowns (V-bar)
1x10x80
1x10x100
1x12x120

Squat (belted)
1x5x225 (50%)
1x4x270 (60%)
2x3x315 (70%)
4x2x360 (80%)

Floor Skullcrushers (EZ bar)
1x10x45
1x10x55
1x10x65
1x8x75

Sumo Goodmornings (cambered bar, beltless)
1x5x185
3x5x205

Where to start . . . positive. I got the new squat suit today (48 Metal King V-type Squatter IPF). I tried it on right away and it seemed to fit pretty darn well. Once I worked up to my work set weight I started to realize I wasn’t getting as much pop at the bottom as I was out of the smaller suit. If I can stretch the other suit’s leg holes about 1/4 inch I think it will work perfectly. I might give it a try, otherwise I plan on approaching the squat quite a bit more conservatively than I had hopped. I had planned on swinging for the fences on my third attempt but now that doesn’t seem like it is in the cards. I will get the new squat suit adjusted slightly after the meet. I didn’t have any issues hitting depth for the record.

So I got help in my shirt today from the lifter that handled me for my meet in June. He’s extremely honest with me when I am doing something that could receive a red light which I love. Anyway when I was warming up he said I was letting the bar drift toward my stomach in the descent. He told me not to bench to boards in my warm-up because it tends to reinforce a low touch. So anyway once I got to 305, my work set weight, I had a hell of a time getting down to my chest on the correct groove and it drifted right at the end. I barely started to press the weight before I called for him to take it. So then I got progressively better at lowering under control and in the right position, but for some reason all 3 reps stalled ridiculously close to lockout. Since each lift was improving and it was so damn hard to touch with 305 I thought I would keep going, but in the end it just convinced me this shirt is not salvageable. The other thing that sucked is I was really trying to grind through each of those last 3 reps and so my shoulder felt like shit once I took the bench shirt off. I am sure it will be fine but I intend to take 9 days off from benching.

If anyone thinks powerlifting is boring just throw tight gear into the mix. Makes things really interesting in a hurry.

I am definitely optimistic about how I will do at the meet in a month, but my expectations and attempts are likely to be lower than I had planned a couple of weeks ago.

849

[quote]mrodock wrote:
So then I got progressively better at lowering under control and in the right position, but for some reason all 3 reps stalled ridiculously close to lockout.[/quote]

You probably know this, but lockout on bench is primarily Triceps. Since that appears to be your sticking point, you might try a few weeks of rack presses from half way up to full lockout. I know you are close to the meet, but it might keep that red light from flashing.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks again for your feedback on my program.

850

[quote]Bagger wrote:

[quote]mrodock wrote:
So then I got progressively better at lowering under control and in the right position, but for some reason all 3 reps stalled ridiculously close to lockout.[/quote]

You probably know this, but lockout on bench is primarily Triceps. Since that appears to be your sticking point, you might try a few weeks of rack presses from half way up to full lockout. I know you are close to the meet, but it might keep that red light from flashing.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks again for your feedback on my program.[/quote]

Thanks for the suggestion, I would love to throw that movement in but unfortunately I think it would be too touch on the dinged shoulder. Lockout-centric work seems to be difficult on the shoulder and I fear rack lockouts would be particularly hard on it. If I didn’t make it angry last night with sparring with several reps I may very well try them and see, but I am going to be very conservative with the shoulder leading up to the meet. Just not worth risking anything for 20-30 extra pounds on my total.

Certainly.

851

God your bench blows :wink:

Squats and pulls are looking awfully good buddy, if you are right on meet day it could be a big number.

You outweigh me by 25 pounds now…remember when I had you by 60?

One small piece of advice, just coax your bench along this next month so you don’t fuck up that shoulder…make your total on the other lifts. Training’s looking good man, congrats on all the progress.

852

hey bud, do you have a set of bands? you could try something like these movements to stretch out your shoulder musculature. i don’t think we have the same underlying issue, but i’m finding my traps, upper back and biceps get a serious stretch when i try this stuff.

853

[quote]Ramo wrote:
God your bench blows :wink:

Squats and pulls are looking awfully good buddy, if you are right on meet day it could be a big number.

You outweigh me by 25 pounds now…remember when I had you by 60?

One small piece of advice, just coax your bench along this next month so you don’t fuck up that shoulder…make your total on the other lifts. Training’s looking good man, congrats on all the progress.[/quote]

Yeah the bench keeps me really humble!

Thanks, I’m pretty darn happy with my progress on the squat and deadlift over the last ~6 months since the last meet. Unfortunately the squat suit isn’t quite competition tight so I will have to be more conservative than I was hoping.

Pretty amazing how far you’ve gone one way, and I’ve gone the other way.

Yeah that has to be the plan, I’m just looking to stay in the game with bench. Patience is a virtue.

Thanks Ramo, I am very grateful for the support and help over the last year.

854

[quote]grettiron wrote:
hey bud, do you have a set of bands? you could try something like these movements to stretch out your shoulder musculature. i don’t think we have the same underlying issue, but i’m finding my traps, upper back and biceps get a serious stretch when i try this stuff.

[/quote]

Yeah I have bands and this is a really damn cool video, thanks a lot! Will give this stuff a try.

855

A couple notes:

RS told me that I should either use a Fury or a Katana SS. The F6 and the Katana AS will promote me touching too low in the shirt. If I go the Katana route I should consider going up a size from what I would order in the Fury.

I need to force my chest up to meet the bar in the last couple of inches of descent.

856

[quote]mrodock wrote:

Squat (Ivanko bar)
1x8x135
1x5x225 (50%)
1x3x270 (60%)
1x2x315 (70%)
1x1x360 (80%)
suit (straps down, wraps)
1x1x455
straps up, wraps (Convicts)
1x1x510 (85%)
3x1x540 (90%)

Bench (paused)
1x5x135
1x2x185
1x1x205
42 Fury
1x1x255 (no touch)
1x1x285 (no touch)
4x0x305 (missed last 3 about an inch from lockout)

Lat Pulldowns (V-bar)
1x10x80
1x10x100
1x12x120

Squat (belted)
1x5x225 (50%)
1x4x270 (60%)
2x3x315 (70%)
4x2x360 (80%)

Floor Skullcrushers (EZ bar)
1x10x45
1x10x55
1x10x65
1x8x75

Sumo Goodmornings (cambered bar, beltless)
1x5x185
3x5x205[/quote]

Everytime I come in this log I just see how fucking sick your Squats are. Great job on the volume in all

[quote[Where to start . . . positive. I got the new squat suit today (48 Metal King V-type Squatter IPF). I tried it on right away and it seemed to fit pretty darn well. Once I worked up to my work set weight I started to realize I wasn’t getting as much pop at the bottom as I was out of the smaller suit. If I can stretch the other suit’s leg holes about 1/4 inch I think it will work perfectly. I might give it a try, otherwise I plan on approaching the squat quite a bit more conservatively than I had hopped. I had planned on swinging for the fences on my third attempt but now that doesn’t seem like it is in the cards. I will get the new squat suit adjusted slightly after the meet. I didn’t have any issues hitting depth for the record.[/quote]

I’ve been thinking of getting a suit and was wondering if I could get some advice. I’ve been through the gear thread, however I would like a more in depth I guess from you, as you seem to thoroughly do well explaining and letting me know first and foremost.

Regardless I think you’re going to do great. Your bench might not be the most dynamic… but you sure as hell will give them a run for there money on the Squat and DL.

Good luck man.

Oh and before I forget, I’ve been working on my DL technique and today felt really good (tho it was only 355) I felt real real tight everywhere. I would love w/e advice you can give me man

857

Alkoholik,

There are very few things in this world I like better than raw squatting after doing suited work. Makes me feel like I’m working hard.

You want a squat suit or a squat and deadlift suit? Measure your mid-thighs and around the largest part of your hips. Depending on your proportions some suits are likely to fit better than others. My thinking is that a person shouldn’t wear a squat suit until they have a 2xBW squat. Deadlift suits for conventional pullers don’t typically result in a whole lot of carryover. All things being equal, from what I have seen, I like the way Metal suits are made (both the older and the newer models) than the Titan suit I have.

Thanks, I just have to have some more patience with the deadlift. If I can get use to the new deadlift suit quickly (my wife did an excellent job adjusting it), I think I have a big PR waiting for me.

Your pull is definitely improving. I would like to see you keep your upper back even tighter–really depress your scapulae HARD throughout the lift. The other big thing I think could be improved is the rate at which your hips get through. You wait really long to get your hips moving toward the bar. AS SOON as you get the bar above the knees you should be driving the hips through, F the bar as some people say. Get those things right in conjunction with the leg drive (which it seems you are already doing really well) and you will smoke 500.

858

I’ve worked up Wendler 5/3/1 boring but big program for the new year. I’ll give it a go for 6 months and let you know how it works out. Would rather do Sheiko but don’t have the luxury of time in the gym.
Good luck on the meet and best wishes for 2010!

859

[quote]Bagger wrote:
I’ve worked up Wendler 5/3/1 boring but big program for the new year. I’ll give it a go for 6 months and let you know how it works out. Would rather do Sheiko but don’t have the luxury of time in the gym.
Good luck on the meet and best wishes for 2010![/quote]

That should work very well for you. Just watch low back fatigue with the high volume squat and deadlifts. You can always cut back on the volume, especially with the deadlift accessory.

Thanks man, best wishes to you too, going to be a huge year!

860

Week 8, Day 2

Deadlift
3x8x135
2x5x225
1x4x315
1x2x405
50 Viking
1x1x465 (85%)
4x1x495 (90%) video below

Close grip pin press (#14, 1 in. from smooth)
1x5x135
1x5x155
1x5x175
1x5x195
1x5x205 (hard)

Leg Lowering
3x10

Bentover Band Row
1x12xmini
4x12xmonster mini

Behind neck band pulldowns
2x15xmonster mini
1x13xmonster mini

Novaeer, the suit seems to be working really well, thanks buddy! Check is in the mail, no reason to contact your Milwaukee connection.

I am pretty happy with the deadlift form and I have felt much stronger on deadlift these last 4 weeks. I just have to make sure I get all the way down to the bar and get a good grip because I did a couple of reps with 495 with the bar sliding into my fingertips. The other guy you see in the video is one of the coolest people I have ever met. In a few words, he worked out after his first meet because he had read that heavy squats and deadlifts increase growth hormone; he’s a legend at the gym.

Thought about trying the pin presses last night in a close grip form. They didn’t bother my shoulder all that much during warm-up, so I went with them. My shoulder felt pretty good going into the session so I felt okay with being a bit more aggressive. The pins were set slightly closer to my chest than lockout.

So now my main focus is the Skills Evaluation in a week. I’ll work up to ~570 on squat, something heavy (for me) on bench, and 520-540 on deadlift.

My new favorite accessory exercise is bent over band rows. I discovered them as I was messing with my bands at the inlaws house on Christmas eve.