My First Cut

Mr_Walkway · March 20, 2013, 12:46am

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
bodyfat definitely >20%

i would ditch the “bulking” and “cutting” style… it’s severely outdated and generally does not work

it really just gives lazy people an excuse to play slapdick with their nutrition and get fat as fuck.

lee priest did not do anyone any favors with that kfc transformation lmao[/quote]

Word.

Out of curiosity, what would you recommend for me immediately after my show? I’m around 177 atm 5 weeks out. My thoughts are slowly climbing back up to 190 for starters with some good ol’ carb cycling. by slowly, I mean…idk…1/2 lb a week? [/quote]

take it slow for sure and be conservative.

carb cycling would be a good call

or you can just do what i did and hire shelby for a year and see what he thinks lol[/quote]

If I get a stable job as planned, I’m actually gonna put my money up for Layne. As a natty, I can’t do this low carb bullshit anymore. [/quote]

Excuse me if i’m wrong jskrabac, but you had a fitness modelling style prep thread months ago didn’t you?

How has your progress been since I can’t seem to find said thread? Sorry if I am wrong!

[/quote]

Great progress. Although, it seems like natty’s have a hard time with Shelby. Some of the feedback I’ve seen from others made me to decide to avoid having him as a coach anytime in the future. [/quote]

I definitely fall into the category of “natties currently having a hard time with Shelby” I suppose. I’ve stalled out several weeks in a row now and I’m not sure how much longer before I say enough is enough.
[/quote]

what do you mean by “stalled out”?

my experience was pretty rough too but i loved it…

weeks 10-14 of my 16 week prep looked like this:

meals 1-6
7oz cooked chicken (or equivalent in whey/egg whites)

3 fish oil caps every day
2 primrose oil caps

800-1000mg of caffeine on training days (5x a week)

2 hours of cardio every day (EVERY DAY)

no carbs…no fats…basically spent most of the time wondering where the fuck i was lol

jskrabac · March 20, 2013, 1:31am

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
bodyfat definitely >20%

i would ditch the “bulking” and “cutting” style… it’s severely outdated and generally does not work

it really just gives lazy people an excuse to play slapdick with their nutrition and get fat as fuck.

lee priest did not do anyone any favors with that kfc transformation lmao[/quote]

Word.

Out of curiosity, what would you recommend for me immediately after my show? I’m around 177 atm 5 weeks out. My thoughts are slowly climbing back up to 190 for starters with some good ol’ carb cycling. by slowly, I mean…idk…1/2 lb a week? [/quote]

take it slow for sure and be conservative.

carb cycling would be a good call

or you can just do what i did and hire shelby for a year and see what he thinks lol[/quote]

If I get a stable job as planned, I’m actually gonna put my money up for Layne. As a natty, I can’t do this low carb bullshit anymore. [/quote]

Excuse me if i’m wrong jskrabac, but you had a fitness modelling style prep thread months ago didn’t you?

How has your progress been since I can’t seem to find said thread? Sorry if I am wrong!

[/quote]

Great progress. Although, it seems like natty’s have a hard time with Shelby. Some of the feedback I’ve seen from others made me to decide to avoid having him as a coach anytime in the future. [/quote]

I definitely fall into the category of “natties currently having a hard time with Shelby” I suppose. I’ve stalled out several weeks in a row now and I’m not sure how much longer before I say enough is enough.
[/quote]

what do you mean by “stalled out”?

my experience was pretty rough too but i loved it…

weeks 10-14 of my 16 week prep looked like this:

meals 1-6
7oz cooked chicken (or equivalent in whey/egg whites)

3 fish oil caps every day
2 primrose oil caps

800-1000mg of caffeine on training days (5x a week)

2 hours of cardio every day (EVERY DAY)

no carbs…no fats…basically spent most of the time wondering where the fuck i was lol[/quote]

No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order.

GrindOverMatter · March 20, 2013, 5:23pm

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
bodyfat definitely >20%

i would ditch the “bulking” and “cutting” style… it’s severely outdated and generally does not work

it really just gives lazy people an excuse to play slapdick with their nutrition and get fat as fuck.

lee priest did not do anyone any favors with that kfc transformation lmao[/quote]

Word.

Out of curiosity, what would you recommend for me immediately after my show? I’m around 177 atm 5 weeks out. My thoughts are slowly climbing back up to 190 for starters with some good ol’ carb cycling. by slowly, I mean…idk…1/2 lb a week? [/quote]

take it slow for sure and be conservative.

carb cycling would be a good call

or you can just do what i did and hire shelby for a year and see what he thinks lol[/quote]

If I get a stable job as planned, I’m actually gonna put my money up for Layne. As a natty, I can’t do this low carb bullshit anymore. [/quote]

Excuse me if i’m wrong jskrabac, but you had a fitness modelling style prep thread months ago didn’t you?

How has your progress been since I can’t seem to find said thread? Sorry if I am wrong!

[/quote]

Great progress. Although, it seems like natty’s have a hard time with Shelby. Some of the feedback I’ve seen from others made me to decide to avoid having him as a coach anytime in the future. [/quote]

I definitely fall into the category of “natties currently having a hard time with Shelby” I suppose. I’ve stalled out several weeks in a row now and I’m not sure how much longer before I say enough is enough.
[/quote]

what do you mean by “stalled out”?

my experience was pretty rough too but i loved it…

weeks 10-14 of my 16 week prep looked like this:

meals 1-6
7oz cooked chicken (or equivalent in whey/egg whites)

3 fish oil caps every day
2 primrose oil caps

800-1000mg of caffeine on training days (5x a week)

2 hours of cardio every day (EVERY DAY)

no carbs…no fats…basically spent most of the time wondering where the fuck i was lol[/quote]

hahahaha im seriously laughing right now because i pretty much went through the same thing ( i know you already know this)- but yeah after all the fats got dropped out my life went to hell- i spent most of the time trying to figure out where my dick was (non existent libido). looking back now im glad i can laugh at the situation because life seriously sucked during that time

GrindOverMatter · March 20, 2013, 5:25pm

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
bodyfat definitely >20%

i would ditch the “bulking” and “cutting” style… it’s severely outdated and generally does not work

it really just gives lazy people an excuse to play slapdick with their nutrition and get fat as fuck.

lee priest did not do anyone any favors with that kfc transformation lmao[/quote]

Word.

Out of curiosity, what would you recommend for me immediately after my show? I’m around 177 atm 5 weeks out. My thoughts are slowly climbing back up to 190 for starters with some good ol’ carb cycling. by slowly, I mean…idk…1/2 lb a week? [/quote]

take it slow for sure and be conservative.

carb cycling would be a good call

or you can just do what i did and hire shelby for a year and see what he thinks lol[/quote]

If I get a stable job as planned, I’m actually gonna put my money up for Layne. As a natty, I can’t do this low carb bullshit anymore. [/quote]

Excuse me if i’m wrong jskrabac, but you had a fitness modelling style prep thread months ago didn’t you?

How has your progress been since I can’t seem to find said thread? Sorry if I am wrong!

[/quote]

Great progress. Although, it seems like natty’s have a hard time with Shelby. Some of the feedback I’ve seen from others made me to decide to avoid having him as a coach anytime in the future. [/quote]

I definitely fall into the category of “natties currently having a hard time with Shelby” I suppose. I’ve stalled out several weeks in a row now and I’m not sure how much longer before I say enough is enough.
[/quote]

what do you mean by “stalled out”?

my experience was pretty rough too but i loved it…

weeks 10-14 of my 16 week prep looked like this:

meals 1-6
7oz cooked chicken (or equivalent in whey/egg whites)

3 fish oil caps every day
2 primrose oil caps

800-1000mg of caffeine on training days (5x a week)

2 hours of cardio every day (EVERY DAY)

no carbs…no fats…basically spent most of the time wondering where the fuck i was lol[/quote]

No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order. [/quote]

to be fair, judging by your pics you look right where you want to be for a physique show right now, perhaps maintaning=not a bad thing at this point. you have all my support- dieting with shelby for this long must have taken a toll

timmcbride00 · March 20, 2013, 5:45pm

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Can a loss of strength be acceptable on a cut if the training methods were changed?

I was doing 5/3/1 for years then started mountain dog for my prep and some lifts have suffered
[/quote]

That’s a good question.

Switching methods would make it much harder to assess if you are losing strength because now you have two variables changing. In a perfect world, I would have switched to mountain dog at least 4 weeks before the prep to get an idea where you lifts are with his methods prior to decreasing calories and starting the diet/prep.

To further complicate things, I know that mountain dog methods put big lifts later at times because the focus is not on weight moved necessarily but proper stimulation through exercise sequencing. (i.e leg curls before squats, and other example can be found in his articles) Which means that you would be lifting less than normal to begin with.

And of course, you are probably in a higher rep range with mountain dog as compared to 5/3/1. I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes, lol!

Just keep working hard and strive not to lose whatever strength level you are currently at.

timmcbride00 · March 20, 2013, 5:52pm

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Thanks mcbride. I’m taking Surge Recovery during workout and usually a large carb meal after. Once I stop losing weight with this new calorie intake should I drop by another 500 or less? [/quote]

The basic guideline is to milk each step of your diet as long as possible. Especially in your case as you have to deadline. No problem if you have a week where you don’t lose anything. Better to learn how your body works and maintain lean mass.

Once you have truly stalled, than decrease calories (mostly from carbs) as little as necessary to get things moving again. Could be just 100 calories per day, could be closer to 500, but as you get farther along, remember, you will have less room to cut, so don’t be too anxious in the beginning to make huge drops in calories. You want to maintain as high a possible intake as long as possible.

Also, as your calories get lower and you get lean, refeeds help nicely to get you back on track when stalled.

jskrabac · March 20, 2013, 6:08pm

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order. [/quote]

to be fair, judging by your pics you look right where you want to be for a physique show right now, perhaps maintaning=not a bad thing at this point. you have all my support- dieting with shelby for this long must have taken a toll
[/quote]

It’s not a typical physique though. It’s classic physique, so we’re expected to be midway between physique and BBing as far as conditioning. I’m not gonna be the most developed guy on stage looking at the other competitors at my gym, but I’d like to be the most shredded.

GrindOverMatter · March 20, 2013, 6:13pm

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order. [/quote]

to be fair, judging by your pics you look right where you want to be for a physique show right now, perhaps maintaning=not a bad thing at this point. you have all my support- dieting with shelby for this long must have taken a toll
[/quote]

It’s not a typical physique though. It’s classic physique, so we’re expected to be midway between physique and BBing as far as conditioning. I’m not gonna be the most developed guy on stage looking at the other competitors at my gym, but I’d like to be the most shredded. [/quote]
oh yeah- we have classic physique division here in canada too-- hah yeah best get as shredded as possible for that then—good luck!

RATTLEHEAD · March 20, 2013, 6:28pm

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
Can a loss of strength be acceptable on a cut if the training methods were changed?

I was doing 5/3/1 for years then started mountain dog for my prep and some lifts have suffered
[/quote]

That’s a good question.

Switching methods would make it much harder to assess if you are losing strength because now you have two variables changing. In a perfect world, I would have switched to mountain dog at least 4 weeks before the prep to get an idea where you lifts are with his methods prior to decreasing calories and starting the diet/prep.

To further complicate things, I know that mountain dog methods put big lifts later at times because the focus is not on weight moved necessarily but proper stimulation through exercise sequencing. (i.e leg curls before squats, and other example can be found in his articles) Which means that you would be lifting less than normal to begin with.

And of course, you are probably in a higher rep range with mountain dog as compared to 5/3/1. I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes, lol!

Just keep working hard and strive not to lose whatever strength level you are currently at.[/quote]

Thank you for the reply

jskrabac · March 20, 2013, 6:29pm

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order. [/quote]

to be fair, judging by your pics you look right where you want to be for a physique show right now, perhaps maintaning=not a bad thing at this point. you have all my support- dieting with shelby for this long must have taken a toll
[/quote]

It’s not a typical physique though. It’s classic physique, so we’re expected to be midway between physique and BBing as far as conditioning. I’m not gonna be the most developed guy on stage looking at the other competitors at my gym, but I’d like to be the most shredded. [/quote]
oh yeah- we have classic physique division here in canada too-- hah yeah best get as shredded as possible for that then—good luck![/quote]

I’d love to, but I don’t think the LISS + low carb combo is gelling with me right now. In my avi I was same weight as I am today, only back then eating 400g refeeds every 5 days and 200g everyday in between…all on HIIT cardio.

GrindOverMatter · March 20, 2013, 6:57pm

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order. [/quote]

to be fair, judging by your pics you look right where you want to be for a physique show right now, perhaps maintaning=not a bad thing at this point. you have all my support- dieting with shelby for this long must have taken a toll
[/quote]

It’s not a typical physique though. It’s classic physique, so we’re expected to be midway between physique and BBing as far as conditioning. I’m not gonna be the most developed guy on stage looking at the other competitors at my gym, but I’d like to be the most shredded. [/quote]
oh yeah- we have classic physique division here in canada too-- hah yeah best get as shredded as possible for that then—good luck![/quote]

I’d love to, but I don’t think the LISS + low carb combo is gelling with me right now. In my avi I was same weight as I am today, only back then eating 400g refeeds every 5 days and 200g everyday in between…all on HIIT cardio. [/quote]

was shelby getting you to do HIIT? thats rare if so, same goes with the refeeds? if that set up was working why change it?

RATTLEHEAD · March 20, 2013, 9:12pm

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order. [/quote]

to be fair, judging by your pics you look right where you want to be for a physique show right now, perhaps maintaning=not a bad thing at this point. you have all my support- dieting with shelby for this long must have taken a toll
[/quote]

It’s not a typical physique though. It’s classic physique, so we’re expected to be midway between physique and BBing as far as conditioning. I’m not gonna be the most developed guy on stage looking at the other competitors at my gym, but I’d like to be the most shredded. [/quote]
oh yeah- we have classic physique division here in canada too-- hah yeah best get as shredded as possible for that then—good luck![/quote]

I’d love to, but I don’t think the LISS + low carb combo is gelling with me right now. In my avi I was same weight as I am today, only back then eating 400g refeeds every 5 days and 200g everyday in between…all on HIIT cardio. [/quote]

was shelby getting you to do HIIT? thats rare if so, same goes with the refeeds? if that set up was working why change it?
[/quote]

Did shelby only have you on steady state then? Was it only fasted also until the weeks nearer your show?

GrindOverMatter · March 20, 2013, 10:26pm

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order. [/quote]

to be fair, judging by your pics you look right where you want to be for a physique show right now, perhaps maintaning=not a bad thing at this point. you have all my support- dieting with shelby for this long must have taken a toll
[/quote]

It’s not a typical physique though. It’s classic physique, so we’re expected to be midway between physique and BBing as far as conditioning. I’m not gonna be the most developed guy on stage looking at the other competitors at my gym, but I’d like to be the most shredded. [/quote]
oh yeah- we have classic physique division here in canada too-- hah yeah best get as shredded as possible for that then—good luck![/quote]

I’d love to, but I don’t think the LISS + low carb combo is gelling with me right now. In my avi I was same weight as I am today, only back then eating 400g refeeds every 5 days and 200g everyday in between…all on HIIT cardio. [/quote]

was shelby getting you to do HIIT? thats rare if so, same goes with the refeeds? if that set up was working why change it?
[/quote]

Did shelby only have you on steady state then? Was it only fasted also until the weeks nearer your show?
[/quote]

yup steady state only- i did cardio only in a fasted state—or PWO—unless it was a day off weights in which case id do fasted in the morning–then more in the afternoon

i still get chills walking by the cardio area in my gym hahah

doing 60 mins of fasted cardio in the morning sucks haha

jskrabac · March 20, 2013, 10:59pm

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
No progress. You can see my pics in my training log. From last month to now my pics look like a before/after, only in reverse order. [/quote]

to be fair, judging by your pics you look right where you want to be for a physique show right now, perhaps maintaning=not a bad thing at this point. you have all my support- dieting with shelby for this long must have taken a toll
[/quote]

It’s not a typical physique though. It’s classic physique, so we’re expected to be midway between physique and BBing as far as conditioning. I’m not gonna be the most developed guy on stage looking at the other competitors at my gym, but I’d like to be the most shredded. [/quote]
oh yeah- we have classic physique division here in canada too-- hah yeah best get as shredded as possible for that then—good luck![/quote]

I’d love to, but I don’t think the LISS + low carb combo is gelling with me right now. In my avi I was same weight as I am today, only back then eating 400g refeeds every 5 days and 200g everyday in between…all on HIIT cardio. [/quote]

was shelby getting you to do HIIT? thats rare if so, same goes with the refeeds? if that set up was working why change it?
[/quote]

Exactly!!! That’s what I was doing on my own before hiring Shelby! He went straight into the only thing he knows how to do, and NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

Mr_Walkway · March 20, 2013, 10:58pm

that’s why i bought a treadmill^

RATTLEHEAD · March 21, 2013, 12:09am