With respect to increased fat intake, please note the following:
I use/suggest:
20% polyunsats (Not much more)
of this, 3+ g of EPA/DHA combo is a must
30% sat fats as they are needed for elevated T levels and strength.
50% mono fats as these are the primo quality fats that have many health benefits and do well for strength and hormones also.
We want our poly’s to be lowest but well considered. Even moderate levels of PUFA’s will drop T levels among other undesirable effects. A true case of too much of a good thing.
Best,
DH
And I noticed that I get the distinction of being # 800 on the thread. Ha, Ha. I was 700 too! These early Saturday mornings work out great while all you lazy suckers are in bed!
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
With respect to increased fat intake, please note the following:
I use/suggest:
20% polyunsats (Not much more)
of this, 3+ g of EPA/DHA combo is a must
30% sat fats as they are needed for elevated T levels and strength.
50% mono fats as these are the primo quality fats that have many health benefits and do well for strength and hormones also.
We want our poly’s to be lowest but well considered. Even moderate levels of PUFA’s will drop T levels among other undesirable effects. A true case of too much of a good thing.
Best,
DH
And I noticed that I get the distinction of being # 800 on the thread. Ha, Ha. I was 700 too! These early Saturday mornings work out great while all you lazy suckers are in bed![/quote]
Interesting. I’ll have try to make sure to increase my MUFAs and cut back a little on saturateds. Learn something every week.
Kind of a loaded question but has anybody ever seen any rough figures as to how much fat a Foreman grill typically drains from a piece of meat? I know that it’s probably near impossible to quantify but just curious since all label figures are pre-cooking.
Deinabolic,
There’s no problems with also upping Sats and Monos to an equal level once the necessary precautions are covered with proper PUFA’s like fish oil. Even higher if you like. This should really be predicated on age, health, family history, etc… By getting a good 30% as a minimum you should be cool with having plenty of T material. I’ll usually eat about 250g per day of fat. Of this I get about 40g of PUFA, 120g MUFA, and 90g of SFA (sat fats).
As you can see I don’t get too nit picky about it as long as MUFA and PUFA are up to snuff. Plus I rely heavily on olive oil for calories with my shakes, salads, and meats. Good for the cholesterol and much more. For my PUFA, my main sources are omega eggs, seeds, nuts, fish oil, some flax oil, and add-ins here and there. Sunflower seeds, walnuts, and almonds (as well as natty peanut butter and almond butter) are all some of my biggest sources beyond the oils (fish and flax)
Just think sensible ranges instead of exact amounts. No sense getting anybody crazy.
How important is the carb up? I have been low carb for a while now and am fat adapted so I always feel pretty good on almost no carbs a day. after reading this thread I have tried the carb up several times and it has made me mentally foggy, causes g.i. distress, i get a headache the next morning when I wake up and i feel lethargic. will this go away after a few months of practicing the carb refeed?
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
With respect to increased fat intake, please note the following:
I use/suggest:
20% polyunsats (Not much more)
of this, 3+ g of EPA/DHA combo is a must
30% sat fats as they are needed for elevated T levels and strength.
50% mono fats as these are the primo quality fats that have many health benefits and do well for strength and hormones also.
We want our poly’s to be lowest but well considered. Even moderate levels of PUFA’s will drop T levels among other undesirable effects. A true case of too much of a good thing.
Best,
DH
And I noticed that I get the distinction of being # 800 on the thread. Ha, Ha. I was 700 too! These early Saturday mornings work out great while all you lazy suckers are in bed![/quote]
Dudes, I gotta admit that I have been drastically low in mono’s. I need to work on that next week. S’alright, means I know another thing that I could do to feel even better. With that said, here is a list of sources of MUFAs and their relative percents of these types of fat versus other types:
Olive oil (73 per cent) rapeseed oil (60 per cent) hazelnuts (50 per cent) almonds (35 per cent) Brazil nuts (26 per cent) cashews (28 per cent) avocado (12 per cent) sesame seeds (20 per cent) pumpkin seeds (16 per cent).
Guess I’ll go pick up some hazelnuts, damn. Thanks for the post DH, extremely helpful.
-CA
[quote]Deinabolic wrote:
Kind of a loaded question but has anybody ever seen any rough figures as to how much fat a Foreman grill typically drains from a piece of meat? I know that it’s probably near impossible to quantify but just curious since all label figures are pre-cooking.[/quote]
I assumed that it did, but apparently it doesn’t make much of a difference. Check it out:
Does The George Foreman Grill Work?
Long known for his punch, heavyweight boxing champ George Foreman is now also known for his chops and ribs and anything else you can cook on his grill.
George Foreman sells his grill as a healthy alternative to conventional cooking. He also claims his grill is faster with tastier results and less cleanup. NewsCenter 5’s Susan Wornick decided to check out the claims.
The test involved six identical hamburgers, with three cooked on a gas grill and three on the Foreman grill.
The Foreman grill was easier, cooler and faster, and, as Foremen promised, the fat appeared to be cooking off. But it also dripped off the burger on the gas grill at about the same rate.
Foreman claims his method cuts the fat, but researchers at the Good Housekeeping Institute compared the fat in a hamburger cooked on a Foreman Grill to hamburgers cooked on a broiler and a skillet. The results? No significant difference in fat amounts. Most of the drippings are simply meat juice and water.
I know it isn’t as scientific a test as you may have liked, but it’s one of the only ones I can find.
-CA
[quote]Charles Atlas wrote:
Disc Hoss wrote:
With respect to increased fat intake, please note the following:
I use/suggest:
20% polyunsats (Not much more)
of this, 3+ g of EPA/DHA combo is a must
30% sat fats as they are needed for elevated T levels and strength.
50% mono fats as these are the primo quality fats that have many health benefits and do well for strength and hormones also.
We want our poly’s to be lowest but well considered. Even moderate levels of PUFA’s will drop T levels among other undesirable effects. A true case of too much of a good thing.
Best,
DH
And I noticed that I get the distinction of being # 800 on the thread. Ha, Ha. I was 700 too! These early Saturday mornings work out great while all you lazy suckers are in bed!
Dudes, I gotta admit that I have been drastically low in mono’s. I need to work on that next week. S’alright, means I know another thing that I could do to feel even better. With that said, here is a list of sources of MUFAs and their relative percents of these types of fat versus other types:
Olive oil (73 per cent) rapeseed oil (60 per cent) hazelnuts (50 per cent) almonds (35 per cent) Brazil nuts (26 per cent) cashews (28 per cent) avocado (12 per cent) sesame seeds (20 per cent) pumpkin seeds (16 per cent).
Guess I’ll go pick up some hazelnuts, damn. Thanks for the post DH, extremely helpful.
-CA[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the last time I looked at the macros pumpkin seeds had upwards 10 grams of non-fiber carbs per serving. I’m not certain on this though.
Thanks CA, interesting read. I wish they’d substantiate their findings with numbers, but the general public the article ewas written for wouldn’t understand or care.
[quote]Deinabolic wrote:
Thanks CA, interesting read. I wish they’d substantiate their findings with numbers, but the general public the article ewas written for wouldn’t understand or care.[/quote]
Yeah, like I said, best I could find. The sad thing is that less people would probably read it if it had references or studies cited.
-CA.
[quote]H.D. wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the last time I looked at the macros pumpkin seeds had upwards 10 grams of non-fiber carbs per serving. I’m not certain on this though. [/quote]
They have a lot, but I think they would be ideal for keeping fat in the diet on carb up days. The kernals have a good deal less, and taste pretty good roasted. That wasn’t meant to be an extensive list of foods you must eat, just a reference guide to comparing the differing amounts of mono’s in different foods. If you don’t want to eat any pumpkin seeds, then don’t eat 'em.
-CA
Had a good PM on an individual using 10mg 6x per day on the load and losing his appetite. This has happened to me as well. Below is what I responded with.
VS is a strange animal. On the one hand it can give a wicked pump and help with supercompensation, on the other hand there is reason to think that one might lessen the insulin response of the loading period if we are using a mineral compound that does it’s job in it’s place. Also VS is something to watch if you are not pretty lean to begin with. There really hasn’t been any insulin mimicker or glucose disposal agent that has been show to partition to muscle and not fat. Insulin (and it’s consequent mimickers etc…) increases the storage in muscle and fat. Now on the AD we see improved partitioning due to the fat adaptation. I do not know if the same can be said with VS. I like the way it gives a good pump, especially Vanadyl PH, but I try to use it for a short while and then take a good while off. The research I’ve seen shows that VS can be a tricky animal, and there is still debate about it’s mode of action. I’d say that if your appetite is diminished then the VS is working too well and is keeping insulin under control which will signal satiety. This isn’t good as insulin has anabolic and general properties that aren’t mimicked by VS (probably many more than we know, too). As an alternative to VS, I’ve played with some slo-Niacin. This acts as a vasodilator which should in turn allow for more nutrient transfer during the load. Dosage is highly individual and should be started on the recommended low end and moved up slowly. I like ALA because it increases your body’s own sensitivity to the actions of endogenous insulin. This would have more of an optimizing/priming effect. I don’t feel the same pump as with VS, but I think it may be the better long term option. I also try to use things like vitamin E, Magnesium, biotin, etc… that will maximize the utilization of insulin naturally. I’ve tried metformin too, and it was a really powerful pump, but of course it hasn’t been show to be selective enough to not worry about fat gain, and there are potential leptin issues that could alter fat/carb burning. And again, anytime something is doing the job of insulin, we are theoretically missing out on the many known and unknown benefits of the real deal. I’ve also found that adequate sodium intake on the load leads to a better pump and fullness. I sometimes begin my load with chicken noodle soup, saltines, gatorade, and some tomatoes with salt or V8 juice. If I get the dosage right, my arms begin to feel pumped within an hour or so. Creatine should also help with the cell volumizing anabolic triggers that we are attempting to capitalize on during the load. So with respect to VS, I’m torn. It’s Ok to use from time to time, but the other products would pay off better dividends in the long run in many ways.
I’m a BIG fan of ALA. I use 200-300/meal during the week and double that dosage on the weekends. It is a cost-effective, and powerful supplement to add to the arsenal.
During the week, I use liver tabs with every meal to get additional B6 to aid in the metabolism of amino acids and fatty acids.
During the carb-up, I switch to a B-complex. I take it with every meal. Perhaps this is a bit wasteful, but I feel that the aid it provides in the metabolism of CHO is worth it.
But VS has been tricky… I’m not sure about it. Again, thank you for the useful information.
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
VS is a strange animal. On the one hand it can give a wicked pump and help with supercompensation, on the other hand there is reason to think that one might lessen the insulin response of the loading period if we are using a mineral compound that does it’s job in it’s place. Also VS is something to watch if you are not pretty lean to begin with. There really hasn’t been any insulin mimicker or glucose disposal agent that has been show to partition to muscle and not fat. Insulin (and it’s consequent mimickers etc…) increases the storage in muscle and fat. Now on the AD we see improved partitioning due to the fat adaptation. I do not know if the same can be said with VS. I like the way it gives a good pump, especially Vanadyl PH, but I try to use it for a short while and then take a good while off. The research I’ve seen shows that VS can be a tricky animal, and there is still debate about it’s mode of action. I’d say that if your appetite is diminished then the VS is working too well and is keeping insulin under control which will signal satiety. This isn’t good as insulin has anabolic and general properties that aren’t mimicked by VS (probably many more than we know, too). As an alternative to VS, I’ve played with some slo-Niacin. This acts as a vasodilator which should in turn allow for more nutrient transfer during the load. Dosage is highly individual and should be started on the recommended low end and moved up slowly. I like ALA because it increases your body’s own sensitivity to the actions of endogenous insulin. This would have more of an optimizing/priming effect. I don’t feel the same pump as with VS, but I think it may be the better long term option. I also try to use things like vitamin E, Magnesium, biotin, etc… that will maximize the utilization of insulin naturally. I’ve tried metformin too, and it was a really powerful pump, but of course it hasn’t been show to be selective enough to not worry about fat gain, and there are potential leptin issues that could alter fat/carb burning. And again, anytime something is doing the job of insulin, we are theoretically missing out on the many known and unknown benefits of the real deal. I’ve also found that adequate sodium intake on the load leads to a better pump and fullness. I sometimes begin my load with chicken noodle soup, saltines, gatorade, and some tomatoes with salt or V8 juice. If I get the dosage right, my arms begin to feel pumped within an hour or so. Creatine should also help with the cell volumizing anabolic triggers that we are attempting to capitalize on during the load. So with respect to VS, I’m torn. It’s Ok to use from time to time, but the other products would pay off better dividends in the long run in many ways.
best,
DH
[/quote]
it should be noted that
-“the pump” has no correlation to hypertrophy or strength.
-most arguments that are for it deal with it increase sarcoplasmic growth, which is fine, but there is an upper limit to how large the non-contractile elements of a muscle fiber can get in relation to the contractile elements.
-being able to achieve a pump is usually a good sign of insulin sensitivity, as it shows that your insulin is working well doing its job of transporting glucose into the cells. at least thats what i would think.
[quote]jos221 wrote:
How important is the carb up? I have been low carb for a while now and am fat adapted so I always feel pretty good on almost no carbs a day. after reading this thread I have tried the carb up several times and it has made me mentally foggy, causes g.i. distress, i get a headache the next morning when I wake up and i feel lethargic. will this go away after a few months of practicing the carb refeed?[/quote]
it all depends on your goals.
if your just trying to maintain your weight/health, and low-carb is working for you, by all means stick to it.
If I understand correctly,the carb up is extremely important. Without it you are on Atkins not on the Anabolic Diet.
D
[quote]Owen70 wrote:
jos221 wrote:
How important is the carb up? I have been low carb for a while now and am fat adapted so I always feel pretty good on almost no carbs a day. after reading this thread I have tried the carb up several times and it has made me mentally foggy, causes g.i. distress, i get a headache the next morning when I wake up and i feel lethargic. will this go away after a few months of practicing the carb refeed?
it all depends on your goals.
if your just trying to maintain your weight/health, and low-carb is working for you, by all means stick to it.
and yes the headaches leave after awhile usually.
[/quote]
Vas, do you happen to be using standard ALA or r-ALA? Also did you mean 200-300mg per day or, as stated, with each meal? Most suggest 600mg to perhaps 1g daily in divided doses. What has been your experience?
Best,
DH
I love the good quality liver tabs, man. They are an essential up there with protein poweder, vits/mins and fish oil for me.
If anyone is interested, I’m thinking of putting Bill Starr’s nutrient suggestions into action to test them out. He had some pretty large dosages of certain nutrients for his players on the 5x5 system and claims that it made a big difference in strength and stamina at certain levels. Anybody want to join me in an experiment and see how we fare in 3-4 weeks? We’re all needing some nutrient support on the AD anyway, might as well see what’s optimal. Takers? I’ll post his stuff this week if we get a few heads to join the quest. This thread offers a really effective opportunity for “group think” and a large pool of experiential knowledge. Used properly, we could all gain alot from each other.
[quote]vasudeva wrote:
Thank you, DH. Good information.
I’m a BIG fan of ALA. I use 200-300/meal during the week and double that dosage on the weekends. It is a cost-effective, and powerful supplement to add to the arsenal.
During the week, I use liver tabs with every meal to get additional B6 to aid in the metabolism of amino acids and fatty acids.
During the carb-up, I switch to a B-complex. I take it with every meal. Perhaps this is a bit wasteful, but I feel that the aid it provides in the metabolism of CHO is worth it.
But VS has been tricky… I’m not sure about it. Again, thank you for the useful information. [/quote]
What are the benefits of supplementing with ALA? It is supposed to convert to EPA and DHA, I am already taking in about 6g of EPA and DHA in addition to about 5 servings of flaxseeds which is another 7.5g of EPA/DHA taking 30% conversion.Is it worth taking ALA in addition to the above. BTW, I came across this thread the other day about the FDA putting an 3g upper limit of EPA/DHA consumption. What are your views on this?
Also, what benefits have you seen after supplementing with Liver tabs?
I agree that good quality liver tabs are essential. I’m pretty sure we have the same source. I used to travel to Cold Springs to have my progress monitored. Good folks.
I’m interested to read Starr’s nutrient suggestions. If they looked reasonable to me, I would be willing to join in an experiment for a month or so.
I’ve used s-ALA and r-ALA and found no substantial difference in effectiveness. However, I worked with the standard understanding that ALA products contain a 50/50 mixture of the two, and generally require a higher dosage than stand alone r-ALA. So, when I experimented with dose amount, I took this into account. I’ve read that s-ALA might interfere with r-ALA absorption, but really, the literature is conflicted. Bottom line, s-ALA is more cost effective despite the increased dosage required to get the same amount of r-ALA.
As originally stated, I use 200-300/meal during the week and 400-600/meal during the weekend. In my literature review, 1200/day (in divided doses) was found to be optimal; this is what I aim for during the week and consider it very safe.
I opted to increase the amount of ALA consumed during the weekends because of the increase in CHO intake. This is a very individual number. The risk is hypoglycemia.
I monitored my blood glucose levels while experimenting with different doses. I discovered that the higher dose was VERY effective in keeping my blood glucose levels stable despite the significant increase in CHO.
I’m on my 4th week of AD and its been clear sailing for the most part. I’m starting a carb up today and finishing tommorow (Monday).
But I have a two-day camping trip coming up next weekend (fri-sat) and when I’m camping I like to stick to carbs mostly cuz
a) its more convenient
b) i burn a s***load of calories
So I’m wondering what the best approach to timing my low carb days in situations like this, where a carb load might fall prematurely (this carb load would be 2 days earlier than I would have done it). I’m sure this situation will come up again and has for many of you.
Is it best to:
a) skip a carb load and have a longer low-carb period
b) dont sweat it, a few low-carb cycles that only last 3-4 days are no big deal
c) have a shorter carb load than usual this week
d) some other option?