Once fat adapted, has anyone tried dropping the fat to like 40% -45% to further accelerate fat loss?
I’ve gotten to a point where cutting more cals would put me at starvation levels (sub 1600) and I do aerobics 4-5 times a week.
Just wondering.
This would be of interest to Hexx as well…
The fat has be high - in excess of 60% total calories. Most of us guess on the high side of fat and low side of protein when eyeballing up a piece of steak - meaning you are actually eating less fat than you think and more protein than you think. You must trust it - high fat! In fact the closer to 80% you get, while maintaining your calories, the more fat you will lose. So protein must come down. I know what all the books and self-proclaimed gurus say.
arnold,
-
cut out that low intensity crap and replace it with HITT, then you won;t need 5 bouts a week. Sprints, whether running, biking, or swimming for low/fast alternates. Jump rope is great. Burpees, you get it.
-
drop your protein intake dude - way too high. Replace them with fat calories - CALORIES, not grams. You can get away with 100+ protein grams while fat adapted. Use the rest of your caloric intake for yummy fats.
-
Whenever I hear that term, “impact carbs”, I think of justifying eating fake breads and sugarless gum. There further you stay away from these foodstuffs the better off you will be. Keep your carb intake to greens alone while you are adapting.
-
Don’t fret about your weight gain. Even if it is pure fat, which I am sure it’s not, This eating style quickly fixes itself. Just don’t go overboard on the carb ups.
Hope this helps you 2.
[quote]miniarnold wrote:
Hey bud,
im 27yrs old
previously i was on moderate carb diet with protein and some healthy fats
cardio in mornings on exercise bike low intensity 4-5 times a week and bodybuilding workouts in afternoons 5-6 times a week.
Not eating hidden carbs approx 5-15g impact carbs per day,
last week:
275g protein and approx 240-255g fat per day
approx 3250-3350cals per day
The last thing i expected was to put fat on following maintence calories and traing twice a day most days, says in the AS book for maintence its 18xbodyweight in calories wich means i should be on 3600cals per day and i havnt been on that much last week and gained 3lbs of fat.
on the AD i hoped it would have been muscle or some muscle.
Thanks bud
MA.[/quote]
[quote]miniarnold wrote:
Hey bud,
im 27yrs old
previously i was on moderate carb diet with protein and some healthy fats
cardio in mornings on exercise bike low intensity 4-5 times a week and bodybuilding workouts in afternoons 5-6 times a week.
Not eating hidden carbs approx 5-15g impact carbs per day,
last week:
275g protein and approx 240-255g fat per day
approx 3250-3350cals per day
The last thing i expected was to put fat on following maintence calories and traing twice a day most days, says in the AS book for maintence its 18xbodyweight in calories wich means i should be on 3600cals per day and i havnt been on that much last week and gained 3lbs of fat.
on the AD i hoped it would have been muscle or some muscle.
Thanks bud
MA.[/quote]
Are you sure you’re only getting 3250-3350 calories/day on your low-carb days?
Detail your carb-up(s) for me.
Also, regarding protein intake, stick to 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. This will provide you with enough protein to stimulate protein synthesis and will be just low enough to limit gluconeogenesis.
Hey Guys…On page 60 of this behemoth but have a quick question.
Is the consensus that you shouldn’t follow the 35%protein 60%fat 5%carb during the week because this entails too much protein and will cause gluconeogenesis? I am taking in 3000 calories a day and my Day ends as follows. 262g protein, 200g fat, and 30g carbs. Is it better to lower my protein and increase fat intake?
Also If I am looking to lower calories should I lower both pro and fat or one or the other? Thanks alot guys
Hello all…first post here :-).
I want to give this diet a go but have a questions:
1.Can I start my transition period with less calories?..to me BW=18 seems a bit too high, I mean it puts me at around 3000 which is the starting of a bulk for me and my goal is to cut some fat…I would like to start between 2000-2500…would I get the same effect as long as i keep it 60%fat-5%carbs-35%protein??
Thanks and really informational thread
[quote]porsche11 wrote:
Hey Guys…On page 60 of this behemoth but have a quick question.
Is the consensus that you shouldn’t follow the 35%protein 60%fat 5%carb during the week because this entails too much protein and will cause gluconeogenesis? I am taking in 3000 calories a day and my Day ends as follows. 262g protein, 200g fat, and 30g carbs. Is it better to lower my protein and increase fat intake?
Also If I am looking to lower calories should I lower both pro and fat or one or the other? Thanks alot guys[/quote]
It seems that you are aware that your fat intake is higher than protein - you said 60%, ok. You are also aware that extra protein is converted into glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis. Correct on both counts (arguably about the exact percentages).
So why is your protein intake higher than your fat? Protein has 4 kcals/gram and fat has 9. Percentages are of total calories, not total grams. 60% fat… 80% fat… go with whatever you like. If you are lowing calories, lower both macros and keep your percentages.
Gluconeogenesis… any extra protein you take in will be converted to glucose (carbs). It takes energy to do this which comes out of the protein itself, netting 58% glucose when finished. So for every 100g of extra protein, you will make 58g of carbs+ammonia, nitrogen and some other blood friendly items giving you gas, smelly shits, and/or diarrhea. Do not eat extra protein just to “cover your bases”; you’re adding to your overall carb totals.
If your fat percentage is too low, then your protein is too high. You won’t feel good. Carbs should be negligible
[quote]ontothenext wrote:
porsche11 wrote:
Hey Guys…On page 60 of this behemoth but have a quick question.
Is the consensus that you shouldn’t follow the 35%protein 60%fat 5%carb during the week because this entails too much protein and will cause gluconeogenesis? I am taking in 3000 calories a day and my Day ends as follows. 262g protein, 200g fat, and 30g carbs. Is it better to lower my protein and increase fat intake?
Also If I am looking to lower calories should I lower both pro and fat or one or the other? Thanks alot guys
It seems that you are aware that your fat intake is higher than protein - you said 60%, ok. You are also aware that extra protein is converted into glucose through a process called gluconeogenesis. Correct on both counts (arguably about the exact percentages).
So why is your protein intake higher than your fat? Protein has 4 kcals/gram and fat has 9. Percentages are of total calories, not total grams. 60% fat… 80% fat… go with whatever you like. If you are lowing calories, lower both macros and keep your percentages.
Gluconeogenesis… any extra protein you take in will be converted to glucose (carbs). It takes energy to do this which comes out of the protein itself, netting 58% glucose when finished. So for every 100g of extra protein, you will make 58g of carbs+ammonia, nitrogen and some other blood friendly items giving you gas, smelly shits, and/or diarrhea. Do not eat extra protein just to “cover your bases”; you’re adding to your overall carb totals.
If your fat percentage is too low, then your protein is too high. You won’t feel good. Carbs should be negligible[/quote]
I realize percentages are for total calories but the grams come out as I have layed out. 3000 calories total. 60 percent of 3000 calories is 1800 calories. 1800cal divided by 9 = 200 g fat. 35 percent protein calories = 1050 calories. 1050 divided by 4cal = 262 g protein. See what I mean?
[quote]porsche11 wrote:
I realize percentages are for total calories but the grams come out as I have layed out. 3000 calories total. 60 percent of 3000 calories is 1800 calories. 1800cal divided by 9 = 200 g fat. 35 percent protein calories = 1050 calories. 1050 divided by 4cal = 262 g protein. See what I mean?
[/quote]
My bad… I just eyeballed your numbers without working them - you’re math is correct. I just try to keep the grams the same amount and it roughly works out - ie, ~200g pro = 800 cal; ~200g fat = 1800, 1800+800=2600 total kcals. 1800 is about 70% and 800 is about 30%. To make room for the carbs, drop the same amount of pro - 30g for 30g. So totals are 200g fat, 170g pro, and 30g carb - 2600 kcals, in this example. I try and shoot close to 80% on fat.
All else still applies.
[quote]
Are you sure you’re only getting 3250-3350 calories/day on your low-carb days?
Detail your carb-up(s) for me.
Also, regarding protein intake, stick to 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. This will provide you with enough protein to stimulate protein synthesis and will be just low enough to limit gluconeogenesis.[/quote]
Yeah mate 3200-3300 cals per day
Last weekend (2nd carb up) i loaded over 2 days 10am-6pm each day and again trained each day as i felt very good
Loads wer clean each day 480g carbs, oats, rice, potatos, took in more calories on these days 3800each day.
now i need to cutt as i have gained fat very suprisingly even though i train twice most days. and im fat!, not happy.
So i think i will start on 2500-2800cals per day as i dont want to drop to low initially.
Just a bit unsure about how much protein and fat to take in?
seems thers a few options:
keep protein same or higher to preserve muscle and drop dietry fat to make the deficit (what the doc suggests in the book)
or drop protein as a few guys on here have said to avoid glucogenesis thing, and keep fat pretty high
or a combination of the two moderate protein and moderate fat.
Bit confused really, i was thinking nxt week to start 200-250g protein and 170-200g fat per day giving me approx 2500-2800cals per day.
As for the carb ups i dunno, i would like to keep them over 2 days approx 8hrs per day on clean foods.
Thanks mate and every1 else
MA.
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
miniarnold wrote:
Hey bud,
im 27yrs old
previously i was on moderate carb diet with protein and some healthy fats
cardio in mornings on exercise bike low intensity 4-5 times a week and bodybuilding workouts in afternoons 5-6 times a week.
Not eating hidden carbs approx 5-15g impact carbs per day,
last week:
275g protein and approx 240-255g fat per day
approx 3250-3350cals per day
The last thing i expected was to put fat on following maintence calories and traing twice a day most days, says in the AS book for maintence its 18xbodyweight in calories wich means i should be on 3600cals per day and i havnt been on that much last week and gained 3lbs of fat.
on the AD i hoped it would have been muscle or some muscle.
Thanks bud
MA.
Are you sure you’re only getting 3250-3350 calories/day on your low-carb days?
Detail your carb-up(s) for me.
Also, regarding protein intake, stick to 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. This will provide you with enough protein to stimulate protein synthesis and will be just low enough to limit gluconeogenesis.[/quote]
have replied below
MA.
You really need to see how each program will affect you. If what you are doing right now is making you gain fat, then something must be changed regardless of what you read. The prescribed method is sticking with it as laid out until fat adapted, which also implies that you know how your body reacts to certain foods, percentages, etc.
You may very well, have to try a method, gain weight, and change up your approach - make sure you have a food diary complete with how you feel and how current eating affected you. The key is not to get lost and change things up to quickly. Stick with whatever program for at least a month.
If you just started the AD, and have no hidden carbs, and have your percentages correct, then it is too many calories, at this point for you. There may be underlying hormone problems. Stick with it in the proper numbers and see if your body composition changes. If you are still gaining bodyfat after a month, then lower your total calories.
You may be one who needs individual attention when it comes to dieting. I know, I did, and it took me going on 15 years of experience and experimentation to get to where I am now.
Good luck.
[quote]miniarnold wrote:
Are you sure you’re only getting 3250-3350 calories/day on your low-carb days?
Detail your carb-up(s) for me.
Also, regarding protein intake, stick to 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. This will provide you with enough protein to stimulate protein synthesis and will be just low enough to limit gluconeogenesis.
Yeah mate 3200-3300 cals per day
Last weekend (2nd carb up) i loaded over 2 days 10am-6pm each day and again trained each day as i felt very good
Loads wer clean each day 480g carbs, oats, rice, potatos, took in more calories on these days 3800each day.
now i need to cutt as i have gained fat very suprisingly even though i train twice most days. and im fat!, not happy.
So i think i will start on 2500-2800cals per day as i dont want to drop to low initially.
Just a bit unsure about how much protein and fat to take in?
seems thers a few options:
keep protein same or higher to preserve muscle and drop dietry fat to make the deficit (what the doc suggests in the book)
or drop protein as a few guys on here have said to avoid glucogenesis thing, and keep fat pretty high
or a combination of the two moderate protein and moderate fat.
Bit confused really, i was thinking nxt week to start 200-250g protein and 170-200g fat per day giving me approx 2500-2800cals per day.
As for the carb ups i dunno, i would like to keep them over 2 days approx 8hrs per day on clean foods.
Thanks mate and every1 else
MA.
[/quote]
[quote]ontothenext wrote:
You really need to see how each program will affect you. If what you are doing right now is making you gain fat, then something must be changed regardless of what you read. The prescribed method is sticking with it as laid out until fat adapted, which also implies that you know how your body reacts to certain foods, percentages, etc.
You may very well, have to try a method, gain weight, and change up your approach - make sure you have a food diary complete with how you feel and how current eating affected you. The key is not to get lost and change things up to quickly. Stick with whatever program for at least a month.
If you just started the AD, and have no hidden carbs, and have your percentages correct, then it is too many calories, at this point for you. There may be underlying hormone problems. Stick with it in the proper numbers and see if your body composition changes. If you are still gaining bodyfat after a month, then lower your total calories.
You may be one who needs individual attention when it comes to dieting. I know, I did, and it took me going on 15 years of experience and experimentation to get to where I am now.
Good luck. [/quote]
Thanks mate, am gonna try 2500-2800cals nxt week, to start il keep protein around 250g and fat at 170-200g per day and see how i go.
Then if need be i will drop fat cals more and see what happens, and the alternative is drop fat more and protein a little.
Fingers crossed il get rid of some awfull fat and keep my muscle.
Cheers on2
MA.
[quote]miniarnold wrote:
Fingers crossed il get rid of some awful fat and keep my muscle. [/quote]
You’re not going to lose muscle. Too many people are scared about losing muscle and it’s really debilitating.
Keep lifting hard and you’ll be fine.
Regarding your worries about having gained weight, were you on a caloric deficit prior to starting the AD?
Also, I will echo what ontothenext said about avoiding cookie-cutter diets. Find what calorie level and food selections work for you and do it.
…I know I just told you to individualize, but I will suggest that you not only start supplementing with at least 6 grams of fish oil per day (also supplement with GLA if you have the money), but also ensure you are eating fibrous green vegetables (broccoli and spinach are my favorite… I never count the carbs in them actually) several times per day.
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
miniarnold wrote:
Fingers crossed il get rid of some awful fat and keep my muscle.
You’re not going to lose muscle. Too many people are scared about losing muscle and it’s really debilitating.
Keep lifting hard and you’ll be fine.
Regarding your worries about having gained weight, were you on a caloric deficit prior to starting the AD?
Also, I will echo what ontothenext said about avoiding cookie-cutter diets. Find what calorie level and food selections work for you and do it.
…I know I just told you to individualize, but I will suggest that you not only start supplementing with at least 6 grams of fish oil per day (also supplement with GLA if you have the money), but also ensure you are eating fibrous green vegetables (broccoli and spinach are my favorite… I never count the carbs in them actually) several times per day.[/quote]
Thanks for your encouragment ovalpine, been dieting for about 9months or so on the conventional bbuilding diet, experimenting with cals and amount of carbs etc. but to no great success, have lost quite a bit of weight but to much dissapointment to say the least i lost muscle and still alot of fat to go,
i started the AD with the hope to get in top shape retain wot muscle is left or even gain, and compete again this yr in natural comps, but i need to loose alot of fat yet and i need to put muscle back on idealy.
Anyway i have my plan for this week, drop in calories keep protein higher and reduce fat calories and see how i go, i cant give up.
Cheers bud
MA.
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
You’re not going to lose muscle. Too many people are scared about losing muscle and it’s really debilitating.
[/quote]
True statement.
MiniArnold -
First, you said you carb loaded from 10 p.m. until 6 p.m. on two days. Did you not eat carbs before 10 p.m. or after 6 p.m.? If so, why? Unless I am mistaken, your carb-ups should be all-out, around the clock affairs.
You say you gained 3 lbs? Wait a week and you’ll have lost that weight and then some more.
A variant of this diet used to be called the “pizza and beer” diet. Last weekend I ate the following on Saturday: three chili nachos, two quesadillas, three servings of Biotest Surge, a “spicy korean” dish from pei-wei, two servings of oatmeal, two cinnamon rolls from Cinnabon, half a loaf of wheat bread, mashed potatoes, a full rack of ribs, a large order of french fries and several hamburgers. I spent that day in a casino and drank pretty much the entire time. Over the course of the weekend, I went from 191lbs. to 204 lbs!
By the following Thursday, I had 6 pack abs at a weight of 193. I had lost 11 lbs. in 4 days.
It sounds like you gained a little bit of weight on the carb-up; don’t worry, that is expected. This week your metabolism is going to be racing; when you lower carbs you’re weight is going to drop right down. None of your muscle will be lost. In fact, you’ll probably be stronger.
Your mileage may vary, but for me this diet almost rewards cheating! I admire your discipline and I appreciate your many questions, but all you really need to do is stick to the plan and remember to have fun. Of course, feel free to PM me with any further questions. Good luck.
Hey 2pin,
i loaded the for the 2nd time last wkend (a week yeaterday), i did sat and sunday 10am til 6pm both days.
Yea i gained 3lbs an inch on waist and on hips pants wer noticibly tighter,
i was on 3250-3350 cals per day after the above carb up and weighed satday (just gone) and 3lbs of fat gained! disappointed to say the least as i wasnt eating massive amounts of calories and my carb ups wer very clean (475gcarbs each day).
Remember you saying you went all out on the loads and stil lost fat the following week as a few people have said on the forum and that sounds great but maybe it wont work for me i dont no, not after gaining fat on sensible calories, have only been following calories for maintence as the book says, and if i had gained weight i hoped it wud have been some muscle as many people claim to gain.
Anyway as im 2 fat i am cutting now for a while and see how that goes, disheartened as putting fat on was the last thing i expected.
Cheers bud
MA.
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
miniarnold wrote:
Fingers crossed il get rid of some awful fat and keep my muscle.
You’re not going to lose muscle. Too many people are scared about losing muscle and it’s really debilitating.
Keep lifting hard and you’ll be fine.
Regarding your worries about having gained weight, were you on a caloric deficit prior to starting the AD?
Also, I will echo what ontothenext said about avoiding cookie-cutter diets. Find what calorie level and food selections work for you and do it.
…I know I just told you to individualize, but I will suggest that you not only start supplementing with at least 6 grams of fish oil per day (also supplement with GLA if you have the money), but also ensure you are eating fibrous green vegetables (broccoli and spinach are my favorite… I never count the carbs in them actually) several times per day.[/quote]
Ovalpine is right. You’re not going to lose muscle at those caloric levels . . . trust us. At 20 grams of healthy fats and 50 grams of protein 5 times per day you’ll drop weight. If you’re not, up the intensity of exercise - shorter rest periods, HIIT, etc.
In terms of supps I would go with a good Krill Oil (myprotein.co.uk has some good stuff), whey isolate, creatine monohydrate and psylium husks. Not sold on GLA but Ovalpine is a sharp cat so it may be worth it.
Lastly, take photos to map your progress. If you’re not improving then the AD/CKD may not be for you.
Cheers,
Sasha
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
miniarnold wrote:
Fingers crossed il get rid of some awful fat and keep my muscle.
You’re not going to lose muscle. Too many people are scared about losing muscle and it’s really debilitating.
Keep lifting hard and you’ll be fine.
Regarding your worries about having gained weight, were you on a caloric deficit prior to starting the AD?
Also, I will echo what ontothenext said about avoiding cookie-cutter diets. Find what calorie level and food selections work for you and do it.
…I know I just told you to individualize, but I will suggest that you not only start supplementing with at least 6 grams of fish oil per day (also supplement with GLA if you have the money), but also ensure you are eating fibrous green vegetables (broccoli and spinach are my favorite… I never count the carbs in them actually) several times per day.[/quote]
Ovalpine is right. You’re not going to lose muscle at those caloric levels . . . trust us. At 20 grams of healthy fats and 50 grams of protein 5 times per day you’ll drop weight. If you’re not, up the intensity of exercise - shorter rest periods, HIIT, etc.
In terms of supps I would go with a good Krill Oil (myprotein.co.uk has some good stuff), whey isolate, creatine monohydrate and psylium husks. Not sold on GLA but Ovalpine is a sharp cat so it may be worth it.
Lastly, take photos to map your progress. If you’re not improving then the AD/CKD may not be for you.
Cheers,
Sasha
[quote]ronaldo7 wrote:
Hello all…first post here :-).
I want to give this diet a go but have a questions:
1.Can I start my transition period with less calories?..to me BW=18 seems a bit too high, I mean it puts me at around 3000 which is the starting of a bulk for me and my goal is to cut some fat…I would like to start between 2000-2500…would I get the same effect as long as i keep it 60%fat-5%carbs-35%protein??
Thanks and really informational thread
[/quote]
Anyone???