K cheers il ask him
[quote]tico1028 wrote:
Whey Man wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
damn all you Scott Abel fans got me curious about the cycle diet…but im not sure if its for me at all since im more around 12%BF…but further insight would be much aprreciated 
It’s definitely something I’d only do if under 10% body fat…and I probably wouldn’t even do it until a solid 8%.
But yeah…overall you’ll probably want to be at least as low as 10%.
Why wait till you’re that low? If anything, I’ve heard of people doing it to get that low.[/quote]
Well one thing to understand is that you have to be in a state of supercompensation, and that, in a nutshell, means having a low enough level of body fat. Some of Scott’s clients have had to train for months before they were allowed to use the Cycle Diet approach. Months of hard work and dedication in order to get to a low enough body fat % beforehand.
That said, every body is different. Sure, maybe it could work for you at 12%, and then for some it would only work well if they’re 8%. I only advised to wait until 10% in my previous post to play it safe. Because if one were to try this out when their bodies aren’t ready for it yet…oh boy…better be prepared for some added fat.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Cycle Diet calls for some INTENSE weightlifting at least 5 days a week before the refeed. It truly is a diet you have to earn.
Also, Scott himself emphasizes that this diet is NOT for everyone. For those it works for, it does wonders. For others, the end result is not pretty. It’s important to be in touch with your body and know what’s working and what’s not.
All that said, if you truly want to get into this approach, I’d advise the following…
- Buy the DVD
- Look into Scott’s MET Training
- Read the cycle diet thread in his forums to know more (you might even see my questions I had when I was first learning about it).
Or you could hire him as your coach for either a nutrition assessment, training assessment, or continued coaching. If you’re into it, this is by far the best way to go, as he’ll be able to properly determine if you’re an ideal candidate for the diet.
[quote]Bizmark wrote:
Hi guys, I read a couple pages back that some of you bought Scott Abel’s dvd about his cyclic diet. I can’t seem to find much information about the diet itself online, so I’m wondering if you all think its a good purchase or not. Because I’m thinking of possibly picking it up. Thanks.
-Biz[/quote]
Has the info you need to learn more. Also read my post above this one.
Can some of you vets give me an opinion on my diet and workout routine? I’m cutting right now, and trying to build strength at the same time. I’m also waving my calories, and doing 2 small carb-ups/week.
gym #1 = focused on bench press and deadlift
gym #2 = focused on squats and back-pull ups/rowing
I listed for two weeks here so you can see how it comes together.
21000 weekly calories
DAY CALS GYM WORKOUT
sun - 4000, no gym, 350g CHO reload
mon - 3000, gym workout #1 high intensity
tue - 2500, gym workout #2 DE + HIIT
wed - 4000, no gym, 450g CHO reload
thu - 3000, gym workout #2 high intensity
fri - 2500, gym workout #1 assistance exercises
sat - 2000, gym full body active recovery
sun - 4000, no gym, 350g CHO reload
mon - 3000, gym workout #2 high intensity
tue - 2500, gym workout #1 DE + HIIT
wed - 4000, no gym, 450g CHO reload
thu - 3000, gym workout #1 high intensity
fri - 2500, gym workout #2 assistance exercises
sat - 2000, gym full body active recovery
sun - 4000, no gym, 350g CHO reload
mon - 3000, gym workout #1 high intensity
tue - 2500, gym workout #2 DE etc. etc.
[quote]miniarnold wrote:
is st jons wart in liqiud form ok to take on the AD, 20 drops twice a day.
the label says ingrediants: tincture of organically grown fresh flower heads of st johns wort (hypericum perforatum), extracted in alcohol (66% v/v), the alcohol bit made me think?
Is soya milk unsweetened ok in drinks also
Ingrediants water, organic soya beans (6%) and natural flavouring, per 100ml protein 3.3g, carbs 0.1g, fat 1.9g, fiber 0.6g. Just checking its ok?
Cheers
MA
[/quote]
I’m waiting for the 7th repost to answer.
Seriously though, I would advise you to ask Christian Thibaudeau at http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1149303 . He’s way more knowledgeable than us and services are free.
[quote]Whey Man wrote:
Well one thing to understand is that you have to be in a state of supercompensation, and that, in a nutshell, means having a low enough level of body fat. Some of Scott’s clients have had to train for months before they were allowed to use the Cycle Diet approach. Months of hard work and dedication in order to get to a low enough body fat % beforehand.
That said, every body is different. Sure, maybe it could work for you at 12%, and then for some it would only work well if they’re 8%. I only advised to wait until 10% in my previous post to play it safe. Because if one were to try this out when their bodies aren’t ready for it yet…oh boy…better be prepared for some added fat.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Cycle Diet calls for some INTENSE weightlifting at least 5 days a week before the refeed. It truly is a diet you have to earn.
Also, Scott himself emphasizes that this diet is NOT for everyone. For those it works for, it does wonders. For others, the end result is not pretty. It’s important to be in touch with your body and know what’s working and what’s not.
All that said, if you truly want to get into this approach, I’d advise the following…
- Buy the DVD
- Look into Scott’s MET Training
- Read the cycle diet thread in his forums to know more (you might even see my questions I had when I was first learning about it).
Or you could hire him as your coach for either a nutrition assessment, training assessment, or continued coaching. If you’re into it, this is by far the best way to go, as he’ll be able to properly determine if you’re an ideal candidate for the diet. [/quote]
Agreed 100%.
Note to all: the AD and the Cycle Diet both recommend staying well below 10%.
oval, I’m currently at around 12% bf. I plan on measuring it every week while on the AD. But you are talking about the Cycle Diet- is that different than the AD? What I looked into was the AD…but maybe I just don’t know that the AD and Cycle diet are the same thing. I would hate to do the AD and have it add fat instead of take away.
[quote]tico1028 wrote:
oval, I’m currently at around 12% bf. I plan on measuring it every week while on the AD. But you are talking about the Cycle Diet- is that different than the AD? What I looked into was the AD…but maybe I just don’t know that the AD and Cycle diet are the same thing. I would hate to do the AD and have it add fat instead of take away.[/quote]
What are your current goals?
…please don’t tell me “to get jacked and ripped.”
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
tico1028 wrote:
oval, I’m currently at around 12% bf. I plan on measuring it every week while on the AD. But you are talking about the Cycle Diet- is that different than the AD? What I looked into was the AD…but maybe I just don’t know that the AD and Cycle diet are the same thing. I would hate to do the AD and have it add fat instead of take away.
What are your current goals?
…please don’t tell me “to get jacked and ripped.”
[/quote]
DUH! Na, haha. I’ve been training hard for about 4.5 years now. I’m at 12% bf, and I want to just gain, but not gain BF. I read about the AD, and it sounded good- I could gain mass while cutting BF. I’ve bulked in the past, but put on some fat, and then I cut down a lot, now at 12% bf, and I don’t want to go back to the 15% range.
That’s just too high for me(maybe bc I wrestled way back in the day in high school). Anyways, so to put it simply, I want to gain while keeping BF at 12 or lower if I can. I’ve mapped out a daily diet and everything, that I plan on following religiously, and I could show you that if you want.
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
labikes wrote:
Guys I am going crazy already. I have been doig the AD for a few months already. Currently weigh at 220 with 14% bodyfat, goal is to reach under 10 percent. I have been doing 1 carb reload every fourteen days to speed up fat loss. Currently doing the Waterbury method training and full body circuits followed by 25 minutes of hiit cardio and also doing hiit cardio on off days for 40 minutes. My protein intake is 220 grams per day and 150 grams of fat, carbs under 30 grams. My question to the vets is since I am getting enough protein is my cardio prohibiting me from getting to under 10%, should I discontinue the cardio? Please fellas any help would be appreciated. Any suggestions to modifying any of my diet or training? I know I will get more because I will not give up and will keep on working at reaching my goal but any help from my fellow tnation brothers will be greatly appreciated.
I would recommend following Thib’s thread: http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1898266&pageNo=0#1898414
I would also recommend reading his article called refined physique tranformation.
I saw that Sasha posted something quite good for you. However, I have to disagree with him on one count: the leptin issue.
If you are 14% bodyfat, leptin ain’t a problem for you. As such, you don’t need 300-400 grams of CHO every 5 days.
My advice is to take a page from Thib in his thread and stay low carb throughout the week and have one cheat meal on either saturday or sunday.
Also, exercise more. As Berardi would say, “people are too concerned with calories in and not concerned enough about calories out.”
Soooo… putting it together: 1.5 grams of protein per pound of LBM and .5-.7 grams of fat per pound of LBM per day, exercise more, and on sat or sun, have a meal that doesn’t comply with the “rules”.[/quote]
That was an awesome link bro. It makes alot of sense, very similar to the AD with minor differences. Can anyone tell me how much cardio is too much. I do hit cardio four times a week for 40 minutes. Is this bad. Is this the reason that I feel flat. Isit because it eats upp all of the glycogen from my carb relaod day and does not get used in building muscle. Please if anyone knows anything please help.
[quote]labikes wrote:
Can anyone tell me how much cardio is too much. I do hit cardio four times a week for 40 minutes. Is this bad. Is this the reason that I feel flat. Isit because it eats upp all of the glycogen from my carb relaod day and does not get used in building muscle. Please if anyone knows anything please help.
[/quote]
First and foremost, no, you’re not doing too much cardio.
As to whether it’s the cardio that eats up all your glycogen, I can’t really say. The most important factor here is how hard you’re pushing yourself on the cardio. The higher your heart rate and general “work put in”, the more you’ll depend on glycolysis over lipolysis. However, I wouldn’t take that to mean that you should back off on either effort put in nor duration spent on cardio.
Remember, your goal is to lose fat. If anything, up your exercise. Feeling flat just comes with it, man. If it’s of any solace, if you’re feeling flat, you’re low in glycogen, creating a greater demand on your fat burning for energy.
As a final note, as you become leaner, you won’t feel as flat. Not only will you simply look and feel more muscular anyway, but also your body will be better at nutrient partioning.
Going on the AD on monday. In doctor D’s book he recomends 12 days initially without a carb up. But he sort of contradicts himself it seems because he also says that it is also o.k. to only go for five as long as you stick with the diet for long enough. Anyone have any input on this?
If I dont have to go 12 to get the same results of course I would rather not. But if it is better to go 12 I dont mind putting up with it. Just want to make sure I am not going to get to low on energy. Due to my job I am required to do quit a bit of cardio every day and I dont want my work performance to suffer. Anybody have some advice?
The way I understand it he does say you CAN be fat adapted in 5 days but because everyone is different 12 days is needed to ENSURE you are fat apapted.
I am in now way an expert but this is just how I understand it.
So why put yourself thru this with no way of knowing if you are adapted.
bill
[quote]BillO21 wrote:
The way I understand it he does say you CAN be fat adapted in 5 days but because everyone is different 12 days is needed to ENSURE you are fat apapted.
I am in now way an expert but this is just how I understand it.
So why put yourself thru this with no way of knowing if you are adapted.
bill[/quote]
The term" fat adapted" seems to run a broad spectrum here… Depending on the person, yes, in a few days you will be “fat adapted” indicating the narrow meaning - you’re body is now running on fat for it’s primary fuel. The broad meaning of “fat adapted” is the one that happens after 6 months to a year. The one where you’re blood has turned over a few times and accepts the change. The one where your bowels have accepted the change. The one where your whole body chemistry has reset to accept the change.
The narrow meaning is pretty easy to tell - the headaches are gone and you have some energy back. The broad meaning is more subtle, but if you’re paying attention, you’ll notice your shitting better, digesting better, skin feels better, hair is softer, nails are harder, etc…
Which is why it is a lifestyle change.
Nice. Well I am starting on Monday. Hope it goes well.
[quote]labikes wrote:
SashaG wrote:
labikes wrote:
Guys I am going crazy already. I have been doig the AD for a few months already. Currently weigh at 220 with 14% bodyfat, goal is to reach under 10 percent. I have been doing 1 carb reload every fourteen days to speed up fat loss. Currently doing the Waterbury method training and full body circuits followed by 25 minutes of hiit cardio and also doing hiit cardio on off days for 40 minutes. My protein intake is 220 grams per day and 150 grams of fat, carbs under 30 grams. My question to the vets is since I am getting enough protein is my cardio prohibiting me from getting to under 10%, should I discontinue the cardio? Please fellas any help would be appreciated. Any suggestions to modifying any of my diet or training? I know I will get more because I will not give up and will keep on working at reaching my goal but any help from my fellow tnation brothers will be greatly appreciated.
Mate,
What may be happening is that your body has adapted to your mechanics. What I would recommend doing is to carb load with one meal every 5 days. So, you would go 4 days very-low carb, moderate fats (primarily EFAs) and high protein. I would look to knock at least 600-800 off your daily caloric requirements. Then on the 5th day, for your last meal, take in up to 300-400 grams of carbs + EFAs + a little protein.
Remember we always want to keep our body guessing so that it needs to adapt. When we ramp up our metabolic rate and regulate our leptin levels we put ourselves in an optimal calorie expending state. Then, when we drop our calories right down, fat is the prefered energy source.
In terms of training, push the metabolically intense training . . .it tends to yield the best benefits.
Shoot back with q’s if you have any.
Cheers,
Sasha
Sasha: Thanks brother for the quick response. I ppologize I did not post earlier, my internet was down for days because they had to send a tech out to fix the problem. I am going to try what you recommended, my question is with only one carb up meal will I have enough carbs in one meal to maintain pumps and not feel flat. You also mention to cut out 600-800 calories, if I do that I will be in deficit on the protein side and not get enough. Also in regards to my cardio any advice, whenever I do not do cardio I feel more flabby, on days that I do cardio my skin feels tighter. I have been experimenting for a couple of years and its either my carb up days are too low or too much. Thanks [/quote]
The only way to know is to try it out but if you have been following the AD for a while you should be more then fine. Just focus on lean proteins and healthy fats on your depleted days and a good evening cheat meal where you should be consuming a good dose of carbohydrates.
As was mentioned above, don’t worry about avoiding incidental fats however the bulk of the cals should come from carbohydrates. As for the pumps, you should be feeling full from the fats from the diet by now and from the one meal you should be able to store anywhere from 250-350 grams of glycogen in your liver and on average 40-50 grams in your muscle bellies.
This will be more then enough to fuel four days of activity - especially as most people do not fully deplete muscle glycogen levels throughout a workout.
Again, the only way to know if it works is to try. I have a feeling that because you’ve been going so long between loads that your metabolic rate is slowed down - hence the stagnation. This highly variable caloric intake will help stimulate your metabolic rate while creating a good size deficit in which you can lose a good chunk of fat.
Cheers,
Sasha
cool, thanks for the input on the “Fat Adaptation” Gonnna hit it up on monday, Dr.D’s recommendation on Protein to Fat percentage seems pretty out there, but thats why hes the doctor I guess. Has anyone here experimented with using more protein and less fat or have his percentages worked well for everyone?
Has anyone experienced weight gain initially on the AD, i mean fat gainI have been on maintenence calories since the start (almost 4 weeks) around 3200-3500cals per day, and morning cardio usually 5 days a week.
Last wk i gained a pound, and this week i have gained 3lbs, my waist is an inch bigger and my muscles are no bigger either, im very disheartened.
Any one with similar experence or good advice would be gratefull as to what could be going wrong??
Cheers
MA.
[quote]miniarnold wrote:
Has anyone experienced weight gain initially on the AD, i mean fat gainI have been on maintenence calories since the start (almost 4 weeks) around 3200-3500cals per day, and morning cardio usually 5 days a week.
Last wk i gained a pound, and this week i have gained 3lbs, my waist is an inch bigger and my muscles are no bigger either, im very disheartened.
Any one with similar experence or good advice would be gratefull as to what could be going wrong??
Cheers
MA.[/quote]
Maybe you posted already, but… how old are you? what diet did you come from? cardio 5 days a week, meaning the plod along on an elliptical for 45 min type? What does your routine look like? Are you eating hidden carbs? too much protein?
Maybe it’s simply too many calories for you.
Hey bud,
im 27yrs old
previously i was on moderate carb diet with protein and some healthy fats
cardio in mornings on exercise bike low intensity 4-5 times a week and bodybuilding workouts in afternoons 5-6 times a week.
Not eating hidden carbs approx 5-15g impact carbs per day,
last week:
275g protein and approx 240-255g fat per day
approx 3250-3350cals per day
The last thing i expected was to put fat on following maintence calories and traing twice a day most days, says in the AS book for maintence its 18xbodyweight in calories wich means i should be on 3600cals per day and i havnt been on that much last week and gained 3lbs of fat.
on the AD i hoped it would have been muscle or some muscle.
Thanks bud
MA.