My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
7622

[quote]Avocado wrote:
ontothenext wrote:
BillO21 wrote:
When I took just fish oil and no flax I would get hungry in a hurry. When I added the flax it lasted a lot longer. You may take more fish oil or fat from EVOO than I did so hopefully it will work for you.
bill

It’s not fiber that fucks with one’s T-levels, it’s the flax in particular. I think the V-diet calls for less than I am taking - with the 4 shakes I am downing 8 TBSP’s of a mix of fish and EVO oil, depending upon the day.

And what is this big craze about fiber anyway? Fiber is needed to push out the crap that doesn’t belong in your gut in the first place. If your processed food and carbs intake is negligible, then you don’t need much fiber either. Carnivores in the wild eat very little grass at times when they crave during famines. Maybe a small amount of berries I can see. Clean up your version of the anabolic diet and you won’t need to stuff yourself with flax, grass, or any other type of laxative.

The flax won’t fuck with your T-levels. This is because the phytoestrogen in flax is a low level mostly benine variety. It is much better that this estro bind to your receptor cells than a much more potent estro molecule found in say milk or soy or plastic etc.

Bottom line = don’t worry about flax meal/seed.

-chris[/quote]

Hey Chris,

I think the effect of flax and sesame seeds/lignans may affect people differently depending on their hormonal levels. If one has a strong level of free T and the proper low levels of Estradiol and SHBG, then they probably won’t notice a huge effect. On the other hand, if one has an elevated level of estradiol and/or SHBG they may be susceptible to further degredation of their free T level. I personally cut flaxseeds and sesame lignans (from my lef.org omega-3 caps) at the beginning of the month and have noticed a dramatic improvement in the way I feel. That is a markedly better morale, more drive, more libido, more fullness of testes. I have not made other changes that I can attribute these benefits to (except changed brand of Vitamin D). Below is a repeat of info I posted a while back:

PM to DH:

I wanted you to weigh in on a possible T level saboteur that was just brought to my attention and hadn’t surfaced in any of the 298 pages of the AD thread. I was shocked when a poster on the HRT thread for over 35 lifters suggested that I eliminate ground flaxseeds from my diet since the lignans contribute to reduced T levels and increased SHBG levels. I googled a bit and found adequate cause for concern. This could potentially impact a large percentage of AD followers among many others.

What say you?? Maybe you could post to the AD thread (I already initiated the question on page 298) and on the “HRT Guys - THANK YOU” thread page 6 where it is addressed. This is my last post on that page:

"Found this thread. Not conclusive. I will keep looking…

http://www.T-Nation.com/...631716&pageNo=0

Found this one. It raises cause for concern.

Quote from link below: "Additionally, lignans have also been shown to inhibit other enzymes, which are essential for the synthesis of testosterone and estrogen. Lignans may also potentially reduce the amount of testosterone available for the body to use. In the average male, only a small amount of testosterone roams free in the blood. Most testosterone is bound to protein called sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). An increase in SHBG would theoretically leave less testosterone available to stimulate prostate cell growth. Lignans have been shown to increase SHBG production in test tube studies and research also demonstrates that people consuming large amounts of lignans exhibit increased blood levels of SHBG. "

http://www.americanwellnessnet…

I may well cut out the generous amount of ground flaxseed I am consuming. I was also using lef.org omega-3 with sesame lignans. May have to reconsider that too. It would be amazing if I could reduce my SHBG levels so simply."

Reply from DH:

Hi BC,

Thanks for the PM. Good stuff.

Overall, PUFA’s (polyunsaturated fats)are to be controlled on the AD or any diet. We want the benefits without the drawbacks.

Usually, the natural outworking of the AD is to consume “larger” volumes of animal fats and olive oil. This provides MUFA and SFA (monounsat and saturated fats). These have a positive effect on testosterone counts when they constitute at least 1/3 of the diet. We get more like 1/2 to 2/3 on the AD.

But, I believe I had cautioned the AD’ers not to consume too many PUFA’s. And make Omega’s from fish oil the main component of one’s PUFA intake.

Personally, I average about 10%-15% or so from PUFA and half of that comes from fish oil. A little more from walnuts, seeds and raw almonds. Beyond that its all olive oil and the natural mono’s and sat’s that come from meat, cheese, eggs, cream etc… BTW, almost all salad dressings are primarily PUFA, so be careful. Maybe use some olive oil and vinegar instead.

As you probably know, one only needs 2-5g of the Omega’s to provide full benefit. I’m pretty sure that the suggestions to intelligently limit PUFA’s was pretty early on in the thread. But many don’t or can’t read such a monster thread so that info may have gotten buried.

In short, I agree that you are best served by backing off flax and simply making sure that your omega-3’s are covered

Also, I’ve “heard” that ActivaTe Xtreme is a good product to boost free-t. I’ve orederd two bottles to give it a run and will let you know how that works out. I’ve seen a few experinced lifters claim it works well.

To be sure, free-T is the real engine behind androgen mediated growth. It’s best to do all you can to maximize it. A diet sufficient in nutrients, fat and limited CHO and PUFA’s is the foundation. Intelligent training and perhaps a few supps like AlphaMale, TRIBEX or this new ActivaTe are a nice addition. I like TRIBEX Gold, but have yet to try AM.

Best,
DH

7623

[quote]miniarnold wrote:
Any answer on my previous fiber question?[/quote]

Yes, subtract all fiber. But I wouldn’t get into the habit of justifying a bowl of high fiber starchy carbs. Keep your carb sources green.

I was hoping Black Cat would chime in on the flax deal. I thought maybe you weren’t aware of this, Chris. On the theme of the above answer, why are we justifying the intake of flax, bran, or any other suspicious plants? Keep the vegies green.

Saturated fat is fine as long as your are a fat-burner. It is your fuel. I eat nothing but animal, some olive oil, and some greens - last triglyceride reading on my blood test? 48. The huge key to the AD is keeping the processed meats to a minimum. Those will fuck you up. Sure, indulge once in a while, but do not make a habit of bacon and frankfurters. The closer you eat to a hunter, the healthier you will be while gaining all the performance measures of the AD.

7624

so i subtract fiber from the total carbs in any food to give me the net carbs?
10 carbs minus 5fiber gives me 5 countable carbs?
just wanted to clarify b4 having my small bowl of high fiber cereal
Thank you,
MA.

7625

Does anyone have the AD diet “ebook”? I have the '“Anabolic Solution for Bodybuilding”. Not sure if that’s the same thing. If not, and if anyone would like to trade, please let me know.

Finally, to all of the people worrying about carbs post workout – don’t worry. To all of the heavy people worrying about losing “muscle” – don’t worry. Focus on losing bodyfat, you’ll look a lot better, you’ll feel a lot better, and you’ll be substantially healthier.

This diet is amazing for retaining muscle and losing bodyfat. You’re where you belong.

7626

Hey guys. I started looking into this, and I have the “ebook” version- its a pdf document. Anyways, I had a question on basics for the diet.

To begin with, I understand that there is the 12 transition phase, which is low carb the entire time- 30g or less for this period. Then, from that point on, I understand that it is 5days locarb, 2days high.

My question has to do more with the foods. In the book, it has a chart of foods (which looks wonderful). If I composed my weekday diet(locarb days) of eggs, chicken, hamburgers, steaks, and bacon, would that be bad? For instance, I read in the book that saturated fats are O.K. on the AD, because you are using fats to burn as fuel. However, I just read in a couple posts above, by ontothenext, not to make a habit of “Bacon and frankfurters”.

Anyways, if anyone read my long post, I’m grateful. Thanks!

7627

so i subtract fiber from the total carbs in any food to give me the net carbs?
10 carbs minus 5fiber gives me 5 countable carbs?
just wanted to clarify b4 having my small bowl of high fiber cereal
Thank you,
MA.

7628

[quote]miniarnold wrote:

so i subtract fiber from the total carbs in any food to give me the net carbs?
10 carbs minus 5fiber gives me 5 countable carbs?
just wanted to clarify b4 having my small bowl of high fiber cereal
Thank you,
MA.

[/quote]

Buddy, your question was answered perfectly by ontothenext.

Suggestion: read the first 20 pages of this thread.

7629


Well guys, I have a recipe for y’all. It’s good stuff (truly addicting IF made right).

Before I post it, I personally wouldn’t make it too much. It involves frying up whey protein, and as we all know, there has always been a question on just how much heating up protein dentures the content of it. In fact, if anyone has any studies on it they know of, I’d love to read over one. All I’ve seen on the subject are various opinions.

Along with that, like I said, it’s very addicting. There was a time I made these bad boys 2-3 times per DAY. Thankfully I’ve learned to limit that amount to once every few days. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ok…here we go.

Whey Man’s Pancake Elfwaygo Delux

  • 1 - 1.5 servings whey protein
  • 1 egg
  • 1 serving guar gum (optional)
  • Unsweetened Vanilla Flavored Almond Milk
  • 2 servings Canola Butter

Put the whey, egg, and guar gum in a bowl. In increments, add the almond milk. Stir, add, stir, add, etc. Keep doing so until you get the consistency of pancake batter (it should smoothly drip off your spoon).

Have your stove top on medium heat. Spray a skillet with PAM or something to that effect, and pour the batter into it. Flip pancake over once it’s solid enough underneath to slide a spatula under there. Repeat until you get the desired amount of softness or burntness (depending on how you like your pancakes). And for a tip, once both sides are solid, I push the spatula down on the pancake to squeeze out the batter on the inside that hasn’t been hardened yet. If you like your pancakes thick, you don’t have to do that…but I like them thin.

Next take the two servings of canola butter microwave it until completely melted. Once melted, simply pour over the top on the pancakes. And there you go!

457 calories … 3g carbs / 45g protein / 28g fat

Other things you could do are…

  • Use water instead of almond milk.
  • Add cinnamon to the butter.
  • Add some stevia/splenda.
  • Mix in a serving of PB as well (and more liquid, obviously)

Last thing to keep in mind…it MATTERS what whey powder you use. The difference is night and day. I find that the best kind to use is micellar casein or something similar. Concentrate and isolate come out way too dry. That said, I suppose Biotest’s Metabolic Drive would be PERFECT for it (I’ve never tried it though). I personally use a 50% micellar casein and 50% milk protein isolate mix.

So if you feel like a treat sometime, try this out and let me know what you think.

7630

been on the diet almost 3 weeks now, and at this important stage i like to make sure i am following all the AD guidelines and doing everything correct. since the start i have been slowly reading through the beggining of this thread wich is very informative and interesting, i am only on page 90 or so.
A few things i would like one of the experts or one of the more experienced AD users to help out or answer.
I read in the thread that consuming to much protein could or will cause the body to use the excess protein as fuel and break it down to glucose for energy and wil stop me from using fat as fuel, this i dont want as i am sure nobody following the diet will.
So how much protein does a person take in per day to avoid using excess protein as fuel and hindering fat burning?
i have been following the AS book guidelines and approx 40% protein of daily cals, and 60% fat.
i weigh 200lbs, currently taking in 3400cals per day, do i keep protein high (330gish approx 40% of cals), or drop it down and increase fat to make up the calories?
I no that the fat content of the diet is protein sparing but obviously i want enough but not to consume to much.
It says in the book regarding the cutting phase to drop fat calories and to increse protein higher to preserve muscle while in a deficit
so will to much/excess protein stop the body or slow it down from using fat as fuel?
Thanks guys, just wana get it right as its an early stage for me.
MA.

7631

Reading the first twenty pages of this thread is key.

Arnold - I’ve been on the diet for about a year. I’m no expert, but I think you’ve got the right idea. I am not slavish about counting calories and carbs – I like to experiment. When cutting, it’s more important to be precise, especially with calories. If you’re cutting, figure out how many calories you should consume – starting with about 15x bodyweight – and use 5-6 meals a day to get those calories in. Next week, drop your total calories by around 500 and see if you keep losing weight.

I’ve been cutting weight for the last month with spectacular results.

I try to begin each day with a 30-45 minute walk on the treadmill – 14 level incline (high), 4.3 pace (moderate). Additionally, I weight train four days a week on average.

When cutting, I really love to mix 1 scoop of protein powder, 2 eggs, 3 tablespoons half-and-half, and some sugar-free jello. This works out to about 350 low-carb, high-fat, high-protein calories. This meal takes less than five minutes to make.

Tico – In response to your question above, your diet looks good. Try to limit processed meats like bacon, and focus on eggs, fish, chicken, steak, etc.

Watch the mirror, not the scale.

7632

What about the question of to much protein 2pin, Apparantly consuming to much protein causes the body to turn the excess in to GLUCOSE and use that for energy instead of using fat as fuel?
how much protein should i/ everyone consume to avoid consuming to much and falling into the above VERY undesirable situation?
I am going to start cutting calories down after 1 more week on maintenence but just need to consume correct protein ratio.
Cheers
MA.

7633

Thanks 2pin.

So, I am going to stock up on more eggs, bacon, sausage, burgers, chicken, and steak. That is what my diet will consist of!

So, I just wanted to make something clear about the fiber thing that miniarnold was talking about. I use fiberchoice as a fiber supp. It has 4g carb and 4g fiber in ever serving, so if I take that, does it in essence have “0g” of carbs? meaning, i can take 3 servings, get 12g of fiber, and 0g of carbs?

Lastly, before I embark on this diet, I’m having trouble getting the fat% straight. Would it be OK to structure the diet on the set calorie level, and then just make sure i don’t go over the 30g carb level? Basically, lets say I need 3000 cal/day. For the 5day/locarb portion, can I just eat all my protein sources, have 1 serving of Flameout, and just make sure the carbs don’t add up to more than 30g? Then, come the 48 carb load, just eat all that I want, keeping it at the 3000 cal level?

Thanks.

7634

The question of how much protein has to be answered through your own experimentation AFTER you are fat-adapted. True, the AD spares protein, so you need less. But so many factors go into each one of our specific protein requirements.

For me, I’ve never been one to agree with the high protein requirements, then again, I have never been on a high carb diet. I have gotten away with eating less than 100g/day on a low carb diet, with little performance decrease. Also note, that the 250g+/day that would be recommended for me is probably too high. I weigh 235 and probably carry ~30 lbs of bodyfat. I don’t count calories or protein for that matter, I know the carb values of everything I eat and that’s what I concentrate on. When I want to loose weight, I just eat less food. In fact, since I started on this protein shake kick, I only had a roundabout idea of my intake. 1TBSP of EVOO is a lot less than it looked to me laying in a pan. So I was eating much more fat than I thought, not that I care.

[quote]miniarnold wrote:
been on the diet almost 3 weeks now, and at this important stage i like to make sure i am following all the AD guidelines and doing everything correct. since the start i have been slowly reading through the beggining of this thread wich is very informative and interesting, i am only on page 90 or so.
A few things i would like one of the experts or one of the more experienced AD users to help out or answer.
I read in the thread that consuming to much protein could or will cause the body to use the excess protein as fuel and break it down to glucose for energy and wil stop me from using fat as fuel, this i dont want as i am sure nobody following the diet will.
So how much protein does a person take in per day to avoid using excess protein as fuel and hindering fat burning?
i have been following the AS book guidelines and approx 40% protein of daily cals, and 60% fat.
i weigh 200lbs, currently taking in 3400cals per day, do i keep protein high (330gish approx 40% of cals), or drop it down and increase fat to make up the calories?
I no that the fat content of the diet is protein sparing but obviously i want enough but not to consume to much.
It says in the book regarding the cutting phase to drop fat calories and to increse protein higher to preserve muscle while in a deficit
so will to much/excess protein stop the body or slow it down from using fat as fuel?
Thanks guys, just wana get it right as its an early stage for me.
MA.[/quote]

7635

Tico - People may disagree with me on this, but I will give you my opinion.

Your main focus should be on carbs – don’t go over 30g per day. Try to limit carbs. Your second focus should be calories, particularly if you are cutting. Try to determine a calorie range, such as 15x bodyweight. That’s your calorie total for the day. Your thing focus should be to attempt to get a source of fat at every meal – eggs, fish, nuts, oil, etc – since fat is the fuel of this diet.

Personally, I think what percentage protein and what percentage fat is less important, although it is important to consciously get a fat source and a protein source at each meal. For me, this means cooking foods in olive oil or taking fish oil caps; this could mean eating eggs with your protein shake in the morning.

However, I am probably less strict with this diet than many people. For me, this diet is fun! Have a general idea of how many calories you want to consume, and determine the size of your meals based on this total. After that, focus mostly on carbs. Like “ontothenext,” I now know the carb content of virtually every food I eat regularly.

Like DH once said, this diet is the “holy grail”. Eat foods like steak, eggs, chicken, tuna, salmon, almonds, broc. and spinach and your body is going to reward you.

7636

Awesome. Thanks for the info, 2pin. You answered it PERFECTLY! Looks like I should have fun with this. I already am on a low carb diet, but this will take it further. I can’t wait :slight_smile:

7637

[quote]ontothenext wrote:
The question of how much protein has to be answered through your own experimentation AFTER you are fat-adapted. True, the AD spares protein, so you need less. But so many factors go into each one of our specific protein requirements.

For me, I’ve never been one to agree with the high protein requirements, then again, I have never been on a high carb diet. I have gotten away with eating less than 100g/day on a low carb diet, with little performance decrease. Also note, that the 250g+/day that would be recommended for me is probably too high. I weigh 235 and probably carry ~30 lbs of bodyfat. I don’t count calories or protein for that matter, I know the carb values of everything I eat and that’s what I concentrate on. When I want to loose weight, I just eat less food. In fact, since I started on this protein shake kick, I only had a roundabout idea of my intake. 1TBSP of EVOO is a lot less than it looked to me laying in a pan. So I was eating much more fat than I thought, not that I care.

So does excess or to much protein cause the body to use and break it down as glucose anduse that as an energy source instead of carbs? i know that each person has to experiment with protein levels for themselves,
As the book says you can eat more protein but i read near the start of this thread to much protein can broken into glucose and used for energy?

7638

[quote]miniarnold wrote:
ontothenext wrote:
The question of how much protein has to be answered through your own experimentation AFTER you are fat-adapted. True, the AD spares protein, so you need less. But so many factors go into each one of our specific protein requirements.

For me, I’ve never been one to agree with the high protein requirements, then again, I have never been on a high carb diet. I have gotten away with eating less than 100g/day on a low carb diet, with little performance decrease. Also note, that the 250g+/day that would be recommended for me is probably too high. I weigh 235 and probably carry ~30 lbs of bodyfat. I don’t count calories or protein for that matter, I know the carb values of everything I eat and that’s what I concentrate on. When I want to loose weight, I just eat less food. In fact, since I started on this protein shake kick, I only had a roundabout idea of my intake. 1TBSP of EVOO is a lot less than it looked to me laying in a pan. So I was eating much more fat than I thought, not that I care.

So does excess or to much protein cause the body to use and break it down as glucose anduse that as an energy source instead of carbs? i know that each person has to experiment with protein levels for themselves,
As the book says you can eat more protein but i read near the start of this thread to much protein can broken into glucose and used for energy?[/quote]

So does excess or to much protein cause the body to use and break it down as glucose anduse that as an energy source instead of fat? i know that each person has to experiment with protein lavels for themselves,
As the book says you can eat more protein but i read near the start of this thread to much protein can broken into glucose and used for energy?

7639

miniarnold- For me, the focus is on making fat the dominant nutrient in my diet. If you’re consistently doing that and getting enough calories, then don’t worry about protein being broken down into glucose for energy. That becomes a problem if carbs get out of control. Focus on keeping carbs below 30 grams, eat enough to feel satiated, get enough fat, and take your fish oil.

As someone who used to obsess over the minutia of this diet, I urge all newcomers to avoid this. It’s really not as complicated as some make it out to be (myself included when I began this diet). Focus on the basics and when those are mastered (in all seriousness this is six months down the road), then tweak based on goals, etc.

Finally, I have found that keeping protein down to somewhere in the neighborhood of one gram per pound of bodyweight has resulted in better energy and no loss of muscle mass whatsoever (I’ve actually gained strength and a little size without that being the primary goal). I actually want to experiment with taking it lower, but It’ll be at least May or June before I consider it further.

-Zed

7640

what about the fat to protein ratio? I can focus on keeping the carbs down below 30g a day no prob. my only question is should my biggest macro nutrient intake be protein or fat and in what percentage…I am just starting the diet today so I thought I might ask. Thanks

7641

hey everyone-
I’m thinking about doing an EDT program for fat loss/ maintaining strength while doing a reduced calorie AD? I’ve been on the AD since Oct, and have lost about 35 lbs so far, mostly doing heavy low rep work, and i’d like to change things up a bit. Any opinions?