My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
7582

[quote]BillO21 wrote:
Come on guys. I’ll buy the book and actually do the diet as written. I just want to use your exp to make the transition the most effective as possible.
your suggestions are welcome!
bill
[/quote]

No vet here is blowing you off man, I know what it is like to need immediate attention though.

How effective was the V-Diet for you? How long did you get on it? What is the Radical Diet? If it is just a low cal version of the AD then don’t differentiate the two.

My opinion to you would be to learn as much as you can about the AD and take advantage of your newly earned “lack of desire for crap foods” by eating your weekend loads very clean. Practically, you should add back a meal every few days until you are on either totally whole foods, or taking as many shakes a day as you like. Listen to your bowels, they’ll tell you how the transition is going.

I myself am have slowly eased in to my version of the V-Diet for the past few days. I am coming from the AD so I’m not worried about glycogen loss. My pro’s and fat’s should be right on as I usually don’t record my eating. When I formally diet, I need to be super strict, so this may work great for me.

I’ll have 3 different eating days, (A, B, C) while taking 4 shakes a day, 2 Metabolic Drive + 1TBSP EVOO, and 2 Biopure + 1TBSP EVOO + 1TBSP fish oil (2 scoops each) as a baseline. Day A has me adding 8oz ground beef; day B has 3 eggs w/2 pats butter, and day C has the shakes alone. Calories range from 1560 - 2050 with percentages being close to AD %'s - ~50% fat and ~40% pro, with under 30g carbs. No flax or aminos for me, but I did order the new Superfood, and I take antioxidants (ZMA included) daily. I’m coming back from knee surgery so super intense training is out for awhile anyway. Let’s see where this goes…

Sorry to hijack your post man, but I hope I answered your questions. Ask away if not.

-Al

7583

Thanks for the response. I don’t mind the discussion at all. I like the V-diet mainly for not craving the shitty foods anymore. I’m on Day 20 now and have lost 14lbs. I expected more because I have lost “weight” faster in the past. I think I am holding onto my muscle but I won’t know until I get pinched when this is done. I think the next 8 days I will lose another 6 lbs easy so we will see.

I would rethink not having flax. I feel a big difference in how long I get hungry between shakes with and without the flax meal. I don’t think I could do this without it.

Yes the Radical Diet is just a low calorie version of the AD. ~800-1200 cals

The reason I wanted a response is because I would like to read the book or have definitive info on the diet before I have to end the V-Diet. I might be able to make the transition very easy.

So the Ad is 60% fat - 40% pro and less than 30g of carbs all week and 60%carbs- 30% fat and 10% pro on carb ups. And carb ups are left to either 12-36- or 48 hours.
thanks again
bill

[quote]ontothenext wrote:
BillO21 wrote:
Come on guys. I’ll buy the book and actually do the diet as written. I just want to use your exp to make the transition the most effective as possible.
your suggestions are welcome!
bill

No vet here is blowing you off man, I know what it is like to need immediate attention though.

How effective was the V-Diet for you? How long did you get on it? What is the Radical Diet? If it is just a low cal version of the AD then don’t differentiate the two.

My opinion to you would be to learn as much as you can about the AD and take advantage of your newly earned “lack of desire for crap foods” by eating your weekend loads very clean. Practically, you should add back a meal every few days until you are on either totally whole foods, or taking as many shakes a day as you like. Listen to your bowels, they’ll tell you how the transition is going.

I myself am have slowly eased in to my version of the V-Diet for the past few days. I am coming from the AD so I’m not worried about glycogen loss. My pro’s and fat’s should be right on as I usually don’t record my eating. When I formally diet, I need to be super strict, so this may work great for me.

I’ll have 3 different eating days, (A, B, C) while taking 4 shakes a day, 2 Metabolic Drive + 1TBSP EVOO, and 2 Biopure + 1TBSP EVOO + 1TBSP fish oil (2 scoops each) as a baseline. Day A has me adding 8oz ground beef; day B has 3 eggs w/2 pats butter, and day C has the shakes alone. Calories range from 1560 - 2050 with percentages being close to AD %'s - ~50% fat and ~40% pro, with under 30g carbs. No flax or aminos for me, but I did order the new Superfood, and I take antioxidants (ZMA included) daily. I’m coming back from knee surgery so super intense training is out for awhile anyway. Let’s see where this goes…

Sorry to hijack your post man, but I hope I answered your questions. Ask away if not.

-Al[/quote]

7584

[quote]BillO21 wrote:
Thanks for the response. I don’t mind the discussion at all. I like the V-diet mainly for not craving the shitty foods anymore. I’m on Day 20 now and have lost 14lbs. I expected more because I have lost “weight” faster in the past. I think I am holding onto my muscle but I won’t know until I get pinched when this is done. I think the next 8 days I will lose another 6 lbs easy so we will see.[/quote]

I’m using this mostly for weight loss accumulated from my knee injury. My personality needs a super strict program to adhere to or I will tend to waiver.

The EVOO and fish oil provide that use for me. I’m fighting low test levels and not wanting those carbs so flax is not for me.

I’ll PM you the original AD

[quote]So the Ad is 60% fat - 40% pro and less than 30g of carbs all week and 60%carbs- 30% fat and 10% pro on carb ups. And carb ups are left to either 12-36- or 48 hours.
thanks again
bill[/quote]

The hard numbers from the book:

Percentage of fat is 55-60; protein is 30-35; and carbs is 5-8, but stating that you shouldn’t get more than 30 grams per day.

On weekends it’s 30-40% fat; 10-15% protein; and 45-60% carbs, and lasting from 12-48 hours.

Note that these percentages are of calories, not grams. So you see, without the flax my V-Diet will be within these limits. Actually, I feel stronger and better on a higher percentage of fat. In the beginning, you need to stick with the parameters set forth. As you learn how your body works and reacts to different food combos, you can tweak it as needed.

7585

What the hell is biopure?

I would add some fiber to the shakes then. I don’t think that would efect t levels but I am not positive. Looks like your doing something like a V-Diet lite meets the AD. Pretty sweet. If you have the time post your results so I can learn from them.
thanks again
bill

7586

When I took just fish oil and no flax I would get hungry in a hurry. When I added the flax it lasted a lot longer. You may take more fish oil or fat from EVOO than I did so hopefully it will work for you.
bill

7587

[quote]BillO21 wrote:
When I took just fish oil and no flax I would get hungry in a hurry. When I added the flax it lasted a lot longer. You may take more fish oil or fat from EVOO than I did so hopefully it will work for you.
bill[/quote]

Mate,

Sorry I didn’t get a chance to pitch in but my computer has been going wild and I haven’t been able to jump online for the past 5 days.

A couple things to note. The first has to do with the o3 fatty acid source you were mentioning - flaxseed. If it’s the EPA-DHA you want then flax is a vastly inferior source on o3s. It has to be processed via too many pathways to get absorbed and normally the amount taken in is minimal. Stick to salmon, krill or cod liver oil.

As for your diet transition. Move from the VD to the AD for at least 6-8 weeks. It takes a while for your body to get used to sourcing energy from fats. From there you can follow the radical diet. I would suggest however to not go too many days around 800-1200 cals as you will risk permanently damaging your metabolism. I would say no longer than 4 days before allowing yourself a cheat meal to stimulate your metabolism.

Hope that helps a little.

Sasha

7588

[quote]BillO21 wrote:
What the hell is biopure?

I would add some fiber to the shakes then. I don’t think that would efect t levels but I am not positive. Looks like your doing something like a V-Diet lite meets the AD. Pretty sweet. If you have the time post your results so I can learn from them.
thanks again
bill[/quote]

It’s just another brand of isolated whey that has less carbs and more protein per serving than Metabolic Drive so I can adjust my numbers.

7589

[quote]BillO21 wrote:
When I took just fish oil and no flax I would get hungry in a hurry. When I added the flax it lasted a lot longer. You may take more fish oil or fat from EVOO than I did so hopefully it will work for you.
bill[/quote]

It’s not fiber that fucks with one’s T-levels, it’s the flax in particular. I think the V-diet calls for less than I am taking - with the 4 shakes I am downing 8 TBSP’s of a mix of fish and EVO oil, depending upon the day.

And what is this big craze about fiber anyway? Fiber is needed to push out the crap that doesn’t belong in your gut in the first place. If your processed food and carbs intake is negligible, then you don’t need much fiber either. Carnivores in the wild eat very little grass at times when they crave during famines. Maybe a small amount of berries I can see. Clean up your version of the anabolic diet and you won’t need to stuff yourself with flax, grass, or any other type of laxative.

7590

[quote]ontothenext wrote:
And what is this big craze about fiber anyway? Fiber is needed to push out the crap that doesn’t belong in your gut in the first place. If your processed food and carbs intake is negligible, then you don’t need much fiber either. Carnivores in the wild eat very little grass at times when they crave during famines. Maybe a small amount of berries I can see. Clean up your version of the anabolic diet and you won’t need to stuff yourself with flax, grass, or any other type of laxative. [/quote]

No offense, but you’re missing something: man is not an obligate carnivore! “In the wild”, as you say, man would eat whatever the hell he could find, hunt, and/or steal. Our guts and both digestive and metabolic processes have evolved accordingly.

Verdict: concentrate on getting fiber the diet. And ideally get the fiber through whole vegetable sources, which offer a whole range of other antioxidant, vitamin, mineral, and phytochemical benefits upon which man, “in the wild”, has evolved to take advantage.

7591

Thanks for the advice Sasha. I am going to look into this further when I can actually keep my eyes open!

I think I’m going to transition right from the V-Diet to the AD. With this in mind I am not going to just go to 16-18x my body weight from the start. I am going to start with just adding some calories back AD style and then keep adding them. I’m thinking first three days at 1750, three days at 2000, three days at 2250 and assess how I feel.

To everyone who helped me locate the reading materials THANK YOU!
bill
p.s. your suggestions are welcome even if and esp if they are not in agreement with me.

[quote]SashaG wrote:
BillO21 wrote:
When I took just fish oil and no flax I would get hungry in a hurry. When I added the flax it lasted a lot longer. You may take more fish oil or fat from EVOO than I did so hopefully it will work for you.
bill

Mate,

Sorry I didn’t get a chance to pitch in but my computer has been going wild and I haven’t been able to jump online for the past 5 days.

A couple things to note. The first has to do with the o3 fatty acid source you were mentioning - flaxseed. If it’s the EPA-DHA you want then flax is a vastly inferior source on o3s. It has to be processed via too many pathways to get absorbed and normally the amount taken in is minimal. Stick to salmon, krill or cod liver oil.

As for your diet transition. Move from the VD to the AD for at least 6-8 weeks. It takes a while for your body to get used to sourcing energy from fats. From there you can follow the radical diet. I would suggest however to not go too many days around 800-1200 cals as you will risk permanently damaging your metabolism. I would say no longer than 4 days before allowing yourself a cheat meal to stimulate your metabolism.

Hope that helps a little.

Sasha
[/quote]

7592

Guys I am going crazy already. I have been doig the AD for a few months already. Currently weigh at 220 with 14% bodyfat, goal is to reach under 10 percent. I have been doing 1 carb reload every fourteen days to speed up fat loss. Currently doing the Waterbury method training and full body circuits followed by 25 minutes of hiit cardio and also doing hiit cardio on off days for 40 minutes. My protein intake is 220 grams per day and 150 grams of fat, carbs under 30 grams. My question to the vets is since I am getting enough protein is my cardio prohibiting me from getting to under 10%, should I discontinue the cardio? Please fellas any help would be appreciated. Any suggestions to modifying any of my diet or training? I know I will get more because I will not give up and will keep on working at reaching my goal but any help from my fellow tnation brothers will be greatly appreciated.

7593

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
ontothenext wrote:
And what is this big craze about fiber anyway? Fiber is needed to push out the crap that doesn’t belong in your gut in the first place. If your processed food and carbs intake is negligible, then you don’t need much fiber either. Carnivores in the wild eat very little grass at times when they crave during famines. Maybe a small amount of berries I can see. Clean up your version of the anabolic diet and you won’t need to stuff yourself with flax, grass, or any other type of laxative.

No offense, but you’re missing something: man is not an obligate carnivore! “In the wild”, as you say, man would eat whatever the hell he could find, hunt, and/or steal. Our guts and both digestive and metabolic processes have evolved accordingly.

Verdict: concentrate on getting fiber the diet. And ideally get the fiber through whole vegetable sources, which offer a whole range of other antioxidant, vitamin, mineral, and phytochemical benefits upon which man, “in the wild”, has evolved to take advantage.
[/quote]

None taken, and you and I have discussed this before, I think. I didn’t miss the fact that we are not pure carnivores, I am simply questioning the use of fiber as we understand it as a society today.

You are correct on all counts. I do maintain that I eat/crave/enjoy broccoli, brussel sprouts, and celery (but that’s prob the olive oil, ha). I just don’t fret it when I don’t crave them and my diet goes all meat, eggs, and fat for a while. My bowels are still very effective and I don’t feel otherwise nutritionally neglected. It’s just a check the box thing - get your stalks or grass and be done with it. Just remember, the way WE use/advertise it, it is for pushing out the shit.

Al

7594

[quote]labikes wrote:
Guys I am going crazy already. I have been doig the AD for a few months already. Currently weigh at 220 with 14% bodyfat, goal is to reach under 10 percent. I have been doing 1 carb reload every fourteen days to speed up fat loss. Currently doing the Waterbury method training and full body circuits followed by 25 minutes of hiit cardio and also doing hiit cardio on off days for 40 minutes. My protein intake is 220 grams per day and 150 grams of fat, carbs under 30 grams. My question to the vets is since I am getting enough protein is my cardio prohibiting me from getting to under 10%, should I discontinue the cardio? Please fellas any help would be appreciated. Any suggestions to modifying any of my diet or training? I know I will get more because I will not give up and will keep on working at reaching my goal but any help from my fellow tnation brothers will be greatly appreciated. [/quote]

Now dude I’m no seasoned vet, but you might be overdoing this a bit. Why not try to just do the 7 day reload as outlined? The carb reload may actually accelerate fatloss by shocking your body with a surplus of calories, thus manipulating leptin levels to let you let go of fat. I guess this is a your mileage thing but defiantly experiment.

7595

ok forget the fiber and look at the ,hello, cleansing of the lactic acid built from kickin metal ass in the gym…those greens really help in a big way when it comes to recovery…just my .2 it works for me and ive heard it here and elsewhere plenty

7596

About 3 weeks in and I have a big concern…

On my 2 weekend carb ups, I went pretty much over the top and ate a lot. I plan to cut it back to 36 hours or less, as I am trying to cut. My concern is, I am not looking leaner at all. If anything, I look softer and maybe a little fatter. I eat around 2000-2200 cals per day, consisting of eggs, cheese, steak, hamburger, cold cuts, salad, protein shake. I am 5’10, 170-175 lbs, and workout 5 days a week. How can I start getting cut? Thanks!

7597

[quote]labikes wrote:
Guys I am going crazy already. I have been doig the AD for a few months already. Currently weigh at 220 with 14% bodyfat, goal is to reach under 10 percent. I have been doing 1 carb reload every fourteen days to speed up fat loss. Currently doing the Waterbury method training and full body circuits followed by 25 minutes of hiit cardio and also doing hiit cardio on off days for 40 minutes. My protein intake is 220 grams per day and 150 grams of fat, carbs under 30 grams. My question to the vets is since I am getting enough protein is my cardio prohibiting me from getting to under 10%, should I discontinue the cardio? Please fellas any help would be appreciated. Any suggestions to modifying any of my diet or training? I know I will get more because I will not give up and will keep on working at reaching my goal but any help from my fellow tnation brothers will be greatly appreciated. [/quote]

Mate,

What may be happening is that your body has adapted to your mechanics. What I would recommend doing is to carb load with one meal every 5 days. So, you would go 4 days very-low carb, moderate fats (primarily EFAs) and high protein. I would look to knock at least 600-800 off your daily caloric requirements. Then on the 5th day, for your last meal, take in up to 300-400 grams of carbs + EFAs + a little protein.

Remember we always want to keep our body guessing so that it needs to adapt. When we ramp up our metabolic rate and regulate our leptin levels we put ourselves in an optimal calorie expending state. Then, when we drop our calories right down, fat is the prefered energy source.

In terms of training, push the metabolically intense training . . .it tends to yield the best benefits.

Shoot back with q’s if you have any.

Cheers,

Sasha

7598

I believe the whole leptin deal is going to become more established as time goes on. Going too long between cho loads is definitely counterproductive on many levels as Sasha says. It’s human nature to simplistically jump from “this much is good so 10 times as much must be 10 times as good”

For this topic it turns out to be “low carb is good so practically no carb must be better” The human organism cannot be reduced to syllogistic equations like that as convenient as it would be if it could.

7599

Hey guys…first post here! I’ve been researching the AD (bought the book and have been reading parts of this post)…and from what I gather:

  • the initial change can be a little rough at first
  • as the glycogen leaves your body, your muscles may appear to shrink up slightly (although its not true muscle loss)

However, in the long term…this diet is really more of a lifestyle and in the long term, you will have more muscle mass with less body fat assuming you’re dedicated on both the nutrition and exercise fronts…

Is this correct???

7600

[quote]sandiegodan wrote:
Hey guys…first post here! I’ve been researching the AD (bought the book and have been reading parts of this post)…and from what I gather:

  • the initial change can be a little rough at first
  • as the glycogen leaves your body, your muscles may appear to shrink up slightly (although its not true muscle loss)

However, in the long term…this diet is really more of a lifestyle and in the long term, you will have more muscle mass with less body fat assuming you’re dedicated on both the nutrition and exercise fronts…

Is this correct???[/quote]

In a word, yes.

7601

[quote]labikes wrote:
Guys I am going crazy already. I have been doig the AD for a few months already. Currently weigh at 220 with 14% bodyfat, goal is to reach under 10 percent. I have been doing 1 carb reload every fourteen days to speed up fat loss. Currently doing the Waterbury method training and full body circuits followed by 25 minutes of hiit cardio and also doing hiit cardio on off days for 40 minutes. My protein intake is 220 grams per day and 150 grams of fat, carbs under 30 grams. My question to the vets is since I am getting enough protein is my cardio prohibiting me from getting to under 10%, should I discontinue the cardio? Please fellas any help would be appreciated. Any suggestions to modifying any of my diet or training? I know I will get more because I will not give up and will keep on working at reaching my goal but any help from my fellow tnation brothers will be greatly appreciated. [/quote]

I would recommend following Thib’s thread: http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1898266&pageNo=0#1898414

I would also recommend reading his article called refined physique tranformation.

I saw that Sasha posted something quite good for you. However, I have to disagree with him on one count: the leptin issue.

If you are 14% bodyfat, leptin ain’t a problem for you. As such, you don’t need 300-400 grams of CHO every 5 days.

My advice is to take a page from Thib in his thread and stay low carb throughout the week and have one cheat meal on either saturday or sunday.

Also, exercise more. As Berardi would say, “people are too concerned with calories in and not concerned enough about calories out.”

Soooo… putting it together: 1.5 grams of protein per pound of LBM and .5-.7 grams of fat per pound of LBM per day, exercise more, and on sat or sun, have a meal that doesn’t comply with the “rules”.