My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
7402

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Any thoughts on using Coconut or Palm oil (both vegetable sources of Saturated Fat)? I am about to embark on this diet and, though I will be eating plenty of meat, wonder if these two oils have some place in the AD.[/quote]

You will have all the saturated fat you need from animal sources like meat, eggs, butter, heavy cream, etc. These are the preferred SAFA’s for the AD.

When using oil, EVOO is much more beneficial for the AD. Just use caution not to overheat EVOO when cooking as it changes beneficial fat to detrimental fat. Saute slow and sure with EVOO. Do not boil.

I don’t know about palm oil, but according to Di Pasquale coconut oil is a definite no-no. His words below:

It’s also important to note that Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT’s) get a big thumbs down for use in the Anabolic Diet. Very few foods actually contain MCT’s, but you’ll find many people are very big on MCT supplements, most of which are derived from coconut oil. They’ll say,

“It’s fat, why can’t we use it?” but it basically bypasses the whole energy pathway we’re trying to establish with the Anabolic Diet and can be very counterproductive. MCT’s can be of great use on a diet high in complex carbs because of its protein sparing effects. But on the Anabolic Diet, the body, instead of using the long chain fatty acids that make up most body fat, uses the MCT’s. The body ends up bypassing the very metabolic processes
that the Anabolic Diet sets up: to burn its own fat and use the long chain fatties as a primary energy source.

The long chain triglycerides utilized in the Anabolic Diet also have several advantages over the MCT’s. They have an even greater protein-sparing effect than the MCT’s. And along with decreasing the formation of bodyfat, which the MCT’s also do, they increase the amount of existing bodyfat broken down and greatly decrease bodyfat levels.

A lot of people will be tempted to run down to the health food store and buy some MCT’s to be used on this diet, but don’t bite. They’ll actually work against the diet in terms of muscle production and fat breakdown.

7403

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
Black Cat…on the prowl

;)[/quote]

Hey good buddy,

I am off work until Monday and as they say “The Devil finds work for idle hands”. You called it like it is - cat on the prowl.

7404

Today was day 5 of induction and my energy levels have lagged on workout days. Took 2 Spike tablets pre-workout and felt much better. Any problems with this “work-around”?

7405

Ok, because I’m a nerd and I was interested in this after a towering exercise/nutritional science giant debunked most of the PWO Nutrition Myths article (yes, the debunker was debunked, ironically), I decided to go and check up on the ‘multiple protein shakes’ thing by checking the study cited by the guy who wrote the article. Note that the study may not apply fully to fat burners, but that it should be applicable due to the fact that carbohydrates did not actually play a part in it. The study can be found here:
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/283/4/E648#SEC2

Update a few hours later:
Ok, I’m putting this on a sort of ‘active investigation’ notice here, since I’m currently unable to find the sources on ABCBodyBuilding that confirm the anabolic effect of their method of tapering the PWO shake (half in about 5 minutes, wait 10-15 minutes, and then taper the rest out over about the next 40 minutes) as being superior to simply consuming it all very quickly an hour afterward as seen in the study.

Deeper investigation is needed. I’ll update you guys on it, though, and, for the record, it appears that carbohydrate consumption PWO has no particular contribution to the anabolic effect. We’re doing just as well with just amino acids, and apparently we’d be doing even better with purely EAAs/CEAAs.

7406

[quote]Black Cat wrote:
<<< It is not recommended to modify the AD as laid out by Di Pasquale and guys like Disc Hoss of this thread before 4+ months of habitualizing your body to maximize benefits.[/quote]

This is where a lot of guys go wrong I think. Trying to get creative too soon. There’s plenty of room for tweaking, but you have to have a reference point to tweak from and that cannot be had without a few months of pretty much by the book practice.

7407

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Black Cat wrote:
<<< It is not recommended to modify the AD…before 4+ months of habitualizing your body to maximize benefits.

This is where a lot of guys go wrong I think. Trying to get creative too soon. There’s plenty of room for tweaking, but you have to have a reference point to tweak from and that cannot be had without a few months of pretty much by the book practice.[/quote]

It is pretty hard to resist the urge to modify it, though; if not for the fact that I’m switching off of the modified Westside split I started with and doing something that more strongly resembles Rippetoe’s Starting Strength routine (albeit using heavy triples instead a more conventional layout), I’d probably be going to twice-a-week two-three meal carbups directly prior to my heavy days. Convenience can definitely break things a bit.

7408

I have been using the AD as a general template for my diet for cutting weight for my competitions and I have to say I am very impressed with it. I just do the basics, keep carbs low, under 30g, eat as often as I can, and friday-saturday and sunday morning eating carbs again, and makign sure to get my carb cravings for the first two weeks out of the way. In fact, once I get going on the diet, I generally have a hard time eating enough.

and I love the no carbs during the workout shakes and such. I’ve been using this approach with great success to my recovery, and mental health:

1.5-2scoops of whey before/during warmups
6scoops of Xtend during/after training
2scoops of whey afterwords

I also added in 15-20g of fish oil when I use this diet as well, and a few weeks in I ramp it up to 30g for about 10-20 days depending on how long i plan on dieting. Last time, 3 weeks in I added ALRi’s Venom Hyperdrive 3.0, it accellerated my fat loss even more!! In the 3 weeks I had w/o the Venom, I lost ~10lbs, and when I finished my bottle of venom 4 weeks later, I was down another 13lbs! I went from a fat 208lbs to 10 weeks later, a less fat (still fat overall) and leaner and STRONGER 185lbs!

I’m about 13 days into my diet, and going strong. I decided to forgo this weekends carbs as I am very close to the edge of my weightclass and I need to still drop another 4-5lbs by saturday afternoon. I decided to pick up a bottle of HRX, as waiting for Venom to arrive would take to long. So I spent a bit more, and its time to see how HRX works w/ me and a keto type diet. I’m taking it at full dosage, 2 caps 2x a day, as stimulants hardly effect me. I’ve taken HRX before so I know 2 caps twice a day won’t do much for me.

7409

[quote]jonnosferatu wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Black Cat wrote:
<<< It is not recommended to modify the AD…before 4+ months of habitualizing your body to maximize benefits.

This is where a lot of guys go wrong I think. Trying to get creative too soon. There’s plenty of room for tweaking, but you have to have a reference point to tweak from and that cannot be had without a few months of pretty much by the book practice.

It is pretty hard to resist the urge to modify it, though; if not for the fact that I’m switching off of the modified Westside split I started with and doing something that more strongly resembles Rippetoe’s Starting Strength routine (albeit using heavy triples instead a more conventional layout), I’d probably be going to twice-a-week two-three meal carbups directly prior to my heavy days. Convenience can definitely break things a bit.[/quote]

I have no problem with whatever works for anybody. All I’m saying is that too many guys start tweaking before they even know how it’s affecting them and that takes much longer than most of them think.

7410

Yeah, I know; as stated, I was tempted to try something, and it may have been waaaay to early to do so. I’ll probably end up doing it for next academic year, though.

7411

Alright fellas, I’m on day 7 now and this is my first diet. I’m no noob to lifting though, I have 2 American records at SHW. I weigh 320 and I would like to keep it that way. I have had a helluva time getting enough kcals though. I posted my fitday from the first day and have been doing a little better. But can I have one of you masters lay out a good daily intake plan for me? I am not getting enough kcals. Gracias Amigos!

7412

I hate doing the fitday thing. But how does this sound?

12 eggs
2 beef steaks
1/2 chicken
large salmon filet
lots of cheese
some raw almonds, walnuts
some natty almond butter
lots of EVOO (on veggies, to saute meat, in shakes)
lots of omega-3
lots of broccoli
lots of spinach
lots of protein powder (0 carb preferrably)
lots of heavy cream (in shakes for example)

That sounds very high fat & protein & calories while being extremely low in carbs.

7413

Excuse me, I suspect that this has been covered somewhere, but I’ll ask anyway.

What supps are you taking with this diet? I see Di Pasquale has an array of supps that he sells, all of them quite expensive. He doesn’t post the ingredients of his forumulas, so I have not idea (apart from creatine) what he suggest.

I bought the AD book but is it really necessary to buy HIS supps? If not, what are you using?

7414

Heres a question concerning the adaptation: is there a way to do it in less than seven days? like 5 or 6 days?

7415

I know I could browse through here and find the answer, but I’d rather be lazy and take a short cut.

I understand not counting carbs from fibrous or cruciferous veggies, but which veggies do count?

7416

mmmmm thanks Cat. I’ve been doing a better job, but I think just due to my habits, I’m not too hungry in the morning and day but night comes and I can eat a cow. I’ll start trying to eat more greens.

7417

[quote]JohnnyV wrote:
Heres a question concerning the adaptation: is there a way to do it in less than seven days? like 5 or 6 days?[/quote]

Initial adaptation, characterized by “the crash” happens for most people between days 5 and 8, but full adaptation takes a few months. If you’re not prepared to commit that much time then this isn’t for you. I know it’s been said a thousand times, but the AD is not a diet you go on and off of. It’s an ongoing lifestyle. It’s an unconventional way of doing food, at least from a modern western perspective. It’s true benefits will not be realized in a couple weeks.

7418

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
jonnosferatu wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Black Cat wrote:
<<< It is not recommended to modify the AD…before 4+ months of habitualizing your body to maximize benefits.

This is where a lot of guys go wrong I think. Trying to get creative too soon. There’s plenty of room for tweaking, but you have to have a reference point to tweak from and that cannot be had without a few months of pretty much by the book practice.

It is pretty hard to resist the urge to modify it, though; if not for the fact that I’m switching off of the modified Westside split I started with and doing something that more strongly resembles Rippetoe’s Starting Strength routine (albeit using heavy triples instead a more conventional layout), I’d probably be going to twice-a-week two-three meal carbups directly prior to my heavy days. Convenience can definitely break things a bit.

I have no problem with whatever works for anybody. All I’m saying is that too many guys start tweaking before they even know how it’s affecting them and that takes much longer than most of them think.[/quote]

I would agree with this and stick to your 5/2 cycle even though you are shifting your program (rippetoe’s is a good one to, very detail oriented coach). I say this for several reasons:

  1. Your heavy days will be fine, if not better, on your low cho days as opposed to immediately post cho up. This is because you get used to your energy and hormone levels (which determine everything in your body) on low cho days. Your cho up may give you muscle glycogen but the low cho days don’t have you hormonally and mentally lopsided with insulin.

  2. once you start fucking with it the diet can lose its momentum and becomes a poor mans carb cycling. So unfortunately unless you’ve been ADing for a few months or more you wont respond ‘as well’ if you shorten the low cho periods or include less cho up time.

Good luck even so.

-chris

7419

It’s not the original SS program as Rippeotoe presents it, but it’s based off of that and a desire to have a rowing exercise in there as well; I’m working out the specifics with a few fairly knowledgeable acquaintances of mine before I start, though (which also gives me further time to rehab my shoulder; it appears that I suffered a minor subluxation when I was doing Incline DB Press on Boxing Day).

Plus waiting gives me more time to go over the details of form. Second Edition of Starting Strength is a VERY good resource for it.

7420

Just made the best AD meal ever. Especialy good for they who do not get enough fiber. you know who you are. It’s not an alien or a baby, it’s a poopie.

Pick either:

brussel sprouts
spinach

-cook some diced bacon in a large pan
-Add 1/2 kg of brussel sprouts or cook down a ton of spinach in the bacon and grease by covering with a lid, waiting till wilted and adding more.
-add frozen shrimp to equal out fats/proteins (equal gram-age equals 60%fat 30%pro ratio)
-cook at fairly high heat until brussel sprouts have some golden brownishness to them. I like them burnt but that is not for everyone. Watch me die of cancer because of all the burnt shit though.

-Dish up for high fiber, fat and protein meal

aside: You can fit a ball busting amount of spinach in here. enough that you will know why oliveoil doesn’t let popeye go number 2 in the en suite bathroom. the hallway bathroom is the place for that.

-chris

7421

I echo Chris & Tirib’s statements.

There are a couple ideas here:

  1. “Dabbling” with the AD will make you feel better…but it’s not really making you better

In other words -I think alot of the time when these ‘tweaking’ questions are posed it’s because the tweaking has already begun and folks are looking for reassurance. Not all the time…but I’m just say’n.
Cutting out carbs and readjusting to fat and protein will make you feel better…it just will. But unless you’re following the protocol you’re really missing out on the good stuff…the real benefits. i.e. Better Body Composition, Stable Energy, Increased Muscle Mass (if that’s your thing ;))

  1. The Metabolic Shift is the key

Without the shift -without Adaptation this can be, as Chris suggests, a “poor man’s carb-cycling” --only worse. You aren’t receiving the benefits of either the AD OR a true carb-cycling approach.

The Metabolic Shift followed by Full Adaptation (a few months later) will create a Remarkably Different YOU!
Your body will really work differently…no…really, it will!

Now you may not like it.
The AD may not be for you.
Perhaps you’re looking for the benefits it offers but the whole thing seems like a chore -too much like work. That’s okay.
There are certainly other approaches that yield fantastic results in their own right.

The AD takes time and patience…and really, you kinda have to enjoy the foods too. Otherwise I just don’t see someone ‘settling into it’ and doing well.

jus’ say’n…

:wink:

[quote]Avocado wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
jonnosferatu wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Black Cat wrote:
<<< It is not recommended to modify the AD…before 4+ months of habitualizing your body to maximize benefits.

This is where a lot of guys go wrong I think. Trying to get creative too soon. There’s plenty of room for tweaking, but you have to have a reference point to tweak from and that cannot be had without a few months of pretty much by the book practice.

It is pretty hard to resist the urge to modify it, though; if not for the fact that I’m switching off of the modified Westside split I started with and doing something that more strongly resembles Rippetoe’s Starting Strength routine (albeit using heavy triples instead a more conventional layout), I’d probably be going to twice-a-week two-three meal carbups directly prior to my heavy days. Convenience can definitely break things a bit.

I have no problem with whatever works for anybody. All I’m saying is that too many guys start tweaking before they even know how it’s affecting them and that takes much longer than most of them think.

I would agree with this and stick to your 5/2 cycle even though you are shifting your program (rippetoe’s is a good one to, very detail oriented coach). I say this for several reasons:

  1. Your heavy days will be fine, if not better, on your low cho days as opposed to immediately post cho up. This is because you get used to your energy and hormone levels (which determine everything in your body) on low cho days. Your cho up may give you muscle glycogen but the low cho days don’t have you hormonally and mentally lopsided with insulin.

  2. once you start fucking with it the diet can lose its momentum and becomes a poor mans carb cycling. So unfortunately unless you’ve been ADing for a few months or more you wont respond ‘as well’ if you shorten the low cho periods or include less cho up time.

Good luck even so.

-chris[/quote]