My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
6722

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
matt_t2004 wrote:
I am 6’1 185 lbs with 13 % bf. How many kcal should i be taking in on this diet. The book says my weight x 18, but I am not looking to add size right now I am wanting to get lean. Don’t get me wrong I always could use some extra lean muscle, but as of now I want to just get down in the single digit bf. My current kcal is about 2500 a day. Thanks for any advice.

18x your bodyfat is what you should be doing for at LEAST the first two weeks to make the transition smooth. Ideally you should continue with this for the rest of the first month, perhaps even into the second month. At that point you can start reducing calories and/or limiting the scope of your carb-up in order to lose weight.[/quote]

18 x 185 thats 3330 cals a day. To most people thats high if your looking to lean up but not bad for putting on muscle. If you want to lean up right now I’d just start the AD with you calories lowered. Its not ideal but it will work. I’m not sure about the whole 18x body weight thing. Even the doc says this isn’t written in stone. Peoples metabolisms are different, add in the different activity levels, body fat % and you have a wide range of variables. 18 x bd wieght is just too cookie cutter IMHO. One think I like about Duchaine is he always went by lean body mass, some thing the doc doesn’t do.

So Matt in my opinion I wouldn’t immediately jump up to 830 a day. I jumped up too high in my cals when I transitioned from one diet to the AD and I lost all my definition that I worked so hard to get.

Now for some one who’s 6’1" you could probable use the 18 x bd weight but I like the idea of adjusting your calories gradually while keeping an eye on how you look in the mirror, and how you lift in the gym.

6723

[quote]matt_t2004 wrote:
I am 6’1 185 lbs with 13 % bf. How many kcal should i be taking in on this diet. The book says my weight x 18, but I am not looking to add size right now I am wanting to get lean. Don’t get me wrong I always could use some extra lean muscle, but as of now I want to just get down in the single digit bf. My current kcal is about 2500 a day. Thanks for any advice.[/quote]

Hey wat up Matt?

I would go with 15XBW, for you that would be a total of 2775 calories…you should be fine to adapt at that amount.

     It's mainly just to lessen the impact of adapting with the higher calories, but IMO not totally necessary to hit 18XBW for this period..

                 my two cents bro,
                  Tonebone
6724

Hey guys what’s up?

A few things on my mind. First, I’d like to mention how after 7 or so weekends of carb ups…I FINALLY learned to control myself to regular portion sized meals instead of all out binging AND learned to keep most of my carbs to kashi flavored oats and fruit (still had pleanty of cheat items though). So yeah…baby steps… ;p PS - French toast with cream cheese, jelly, and cinnamin/sugar on it tastes AMAZING.

Ok, secondly, I keep getting worried that I might not count carbs as closely as I should be. Am I supposed to subtract ALL fiber contact? For instance…my peanut butter has 6 grams of carbs and 2 grams of fiber. So does that equal out to 4 grams? How am I supposed to know if the fiber is soluable or insoluable? And what about eggs? Should I count the .4 or so grams that are in them? Or are they considered to be of no impact?

Then lastly, when I first started the diet, I had already been going low carb for the most part, but I only carb loaded for 9 or so days instead of the 12 (didn’t want to go another week low carbing it without some sort of glycogen fill up. And I didn’t do the “weightx18” amount that was suggested. I basically had 2,400 calories a day (I’m at 170, 10% body fat). So I’m kind of wondering if I should load up THE RIGHT WAY this time, and go the proper 12 days just to be safe. Or maybe I’m just over worrying?

Ugh! Sorry guys…I actually just realized I have two more questions.

  1. For a post workout shake…the amount of BCAAs that was suggested is 20 g. Now is that 20 grams of a flavored powder (like Scivation Xtreme) or 20 grams of all of the BCAAs (in any given product) added up to equal 20? For instance…13 grams of Scivation Xtreme powder has a total of 10 grams of overall amino acids. So do I just take 2 servings? And for those of you who take the pills to get the BCAAs…do you take 7 or something then?

  2. Right now I’m in college. Basically I load up on eggs, whey, peanut and coconut butter, and cheese. I try to get meats in there (just fried up a dozen sausages the other day), but it’s better for me financially right now (since the eggs and cheese are served in the cafe that was already pre-paid for) to stick mainly with those food choices I just mentioned. I just wanted a general opinion on what you guys think of the fact that I’m not getting alot of red meat in right now?

Thanks for your time, guys. I apologize for sounding like a newb right now. When it comes to important things like this though, I’m hard nosed about finding out other’s opinions on the subject, to see if theirs is in accordance to mine as well.

6725

I count the carbs in eggs but I eat close to a dozen a day. I don’t count fiber reguardless of type. 2400 cals seems fine. I did 18 x BW and started to gain too much too fast so I use bw x 15. I believe coconut oil or any MCT isn’t good for this type of diet. Your body utilizes it the same as carbs so it is defeating the purpose of low carbs. I’d watch out for the nitrates and carbs in the sausage if your eating so much.

6726

Thanks for the reply guys. I think I am going to go with the 15 x my bodyweight to start out with. Instead of lowering my kcal after that I think I will just bump up the cardio.

6727

I downloaded the AD book off the web and i started the diet yesterday. I am feeling alright so far but i am craving some carbs already. Wish me luck.

6728

hi everyone, i’ve been on AD for 5 weeks now, and have been noticing some pretty nice changes to my body comp.

prior to the AD, i had already cut down on carbs significantly, and dropped from 154lbs to 146lbs (though a lot of this was water weight) at 5’6" and approx 12% bf.

i do the standard 5 days p/f, and 2 days p/c on the weekends. And for some reason, my bodyweight does not experience the ups and downs like most people.

For example, friday night before carbing up, i weigh 146, and monday night when i go to the gym to check my weight, i’m still 146. not that i’m complaining or anything, because i’m seeing results, but i wanted to see if anyone else’s weight didn’t change much over the weekend carb ups.

6729

[quote]thegreatone wrote:
I count the carbs in eggs but I eat close to a dozen a day. I don’t count fiber reguardless of type. 2400 cals seems fine. I did 18 x BW and started to gain too much too fast so I use bw x 15. I believe coconut oil or any MCT isn’t good for this type of diet. Your body utilizes it the same as carbs so it is defeating the purpose of low carbs. I’d watch out for the nitrates and carbs in the sausage if your eating so much. [/quote]

I remember reading Chef Lisa saying somewhere though that the eggs are zero impact carbs. So do you know that for a fact or is that just how you’re going about it?

As far as the coconut…dagnet. Last week I ate the entire jar. So basically it looks like I do in fact need to make sure I’m fat adapted for 12 days straight again. That sucks, but oh well. I’ll live.

6730

[quote]jakshafter wrote:
I downloaded the AD book off the web and i started the diet yesterday. I am feeling alright so far but i am craving some carbs already. Wish me luck.[/quote]

Good luck. Jak Are you bulking or cutting?

6731

[quote]Whey Man wrote:
thegreatone wrote:
I count the carbs in eggs but I eat close to a dozen a day. I don’t count fiber reguardless of type. 2400 cals seems fine. I did 18 x BW and started to gain too much too fast so I use bw x 15. I believe coconut oil or any MCT isn’t good for this type of diet. Your body utilizes it the same as carbs so it is defeating the purpose of low carbs. I’d watch out for the nitrates and carbs in the sausage if your eating so much.

I remember reading Chef Lisa saying somewhere though that the eggs are zero impact carbs. So do you know that for a fact or is that just how you’re going about it?

[/quote]

This has been discussed many times before. One egg has around 0.5 carbs. You count soluble (not insoluble) fiber as 0.5 grams to every gram. You should count these towards your daily carb intake! Leave the whole impact/net carb thing to the Oprah Winfrey crowd and their Southbeach, Atkins diets. The AD is different.

6732

[quote]Hagar wrote:
Whey Man wrote:
thegreatone wrote:
I count the carbs in eggs but I eat close to a dozen a day. I don’t count fiber reguardless of type. 2400 cals seems fine. I did 18 x BW and started to gain too much too fast so I use bw x 15. I believe coconut oil or any MCT isn’t good for this type of diet. Your body utilizes it the same as carbs so it is defeating the purpose of low carbs. I’d watch out for the nitrates and carbs in the sausage if your eating so much.

I remember reading Chef Lisa saying somewhere though that the eggs are zero impact carbs. So do you know that for a fact or is that just how you’re going about it?

This has been discussed many times before. One egg has around 0.5 carbs. You count soluble (not insoluble) fiber as 0.5 grams to every gram. You should count these towards your daily carb intake! Leave the whole impact/net carb thing to the Oprah Winfrey crowd and their Southbeach, Atkins diets. The AD is different.
[/quote]

Ok, yeah I’ve been counting eggs as .5…but I don’t get why Dr. Di Pasquale himself suggests eggs are zero carbs (his site has sample diets for those who bought the book…the eggs were listed as zero carbs). That leads me to believe in Chef Lisa’s logic (assuming I understood what she wrote correctly).

And just to be clear about fiber…

Peanut butter has 6 grams carbs, 2 grams fiber. You’re saying I deduct 1 gram of carb since there are two grams of fiber (.5 + .5 = 1) from the total carb count? I’m just trying to understand what you’re saying. I’ve never seen that logic yet. Perhaps as I keep getting deeper into the thread I’ll find it.

And correct me if I’m wrong…but subtracting fiber content from carb content goes along with the term “net carb”, right? Even though that phrase is mainly popularized with those crappy, hollywood diets, it still applies to us too, does it not?

6733

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i got a couple more questions (thanks to everyone thats been answering them)

first is; is it still possible to put on mass while on either the cutting or maintainence phases of the diet or can i only put on muscle while bulking? …or does bulking just make it a lot quicker?

second, if i carb up for 1 day instead of 2 should i be eating more of foods with a high or low GI, or does it matter?

I would think that if you are only doing 1 day of carbing up, higher GI carbs that fill you up faster would become more important.

I cannot answer your other questions, sorry.[/quote]

yeah thats what i was thinking, i dont think GI varies too drastically with a lot of foods though so not sure how its gonna matter. my goal will just be, eat carbs. i just would rather do it 1 day though because i feel like shit anyway and im not gonna workout or do really do anything so why not do that for the least amount of time possible…plus its hard to “over eat” if you do it for one day.

i think i answered my own question about the muscle gains from reading the book over again, i think ill still be able to put muscle on even if i eat at maintainence or lower but logically i figure the more you eat the more resources youll have to build with.

6734

As far as I know from having read about 1/2 - 2/3 of the book, and having been through the first 10 or so pages of this thread plus the last couple… do not count any fiber.

Peanut butter is 6 grams of total carbs minus 2 grams of fiber for a total of 4 grams of net/impact carbs. Those 4 are what we care about.

The problem with some other diets as far as I am concerned is that they may or may not count sugar alcohols (I avoid them like the plague).

I am not sure what the deal on eggs is. They have 1 g of carbs in them. Unless someone can show that that is from fiber it should be counted.

I have probably been a little high on carbs (between 30-40 rather than under 30) due to not counting eggs and protein shakes. Hopefully that does not send me to dietary hell.

6735

[quote]Whey Man wrote:
Hagar wrote:
Whey Man wrote:
thegreatone wrote:
I count the carbs in eggs but I eat close to a dozen a day. I don’t count fiber reguardless of type. 2400 cals seems fine. I did 18 x BW and started to gain too much too fast so I use bw x 15. I believe coconut oil or any MCT isn’t good for this type of diet. Your body utilizes it the same as carbs so it is defeating the purpose of low carbs. I’d watch out for the nitrates and carbs in the sausage if your eating so much.

I remember reading Chef Lisa saying somewhere though that the eggs are zero impact carbs. So do you know that for a fact or is that just how you’re going about it?

This has been discussed many times before. One egg has around 0.5 carbs. You count soluble (not insoluble) fiber as 0.5 grams to every gram. You should count these towards your daily carb intake! Leave the whole impact/net carb thing to the Oprah Winfrey crowd and their Southbeach, Atkins diets. The AD is different.

Ok, yeah I’ve been counting eggs as .5…but I don’t get why Dr. Di Pasquale himself suggests eggs are zero carbs (his site has sample diets for those who bought the book…the eggs were listed as zero carbs). That leads me to believe in Chef Lisa’s logic (assuming I understood what she wrote correctly).

And just to be clear about fiber…

Peanut butter has 6 grams carbs, 2 grams fiber. You’re saying I deduct 1 gram of carb since there are two grams of fiber (.5 + .5 = 1) from the total carb count? I’m just trying to understand what you’re saying. I’ve never seen that logic yet. Perhaps as I keep getting deeper into the thread I’ll find it.

And correct me if I’m wrong…but subtracting fiber content from carb content goes along with the term “net carb”, right? Even though that phrase is mainly popularized with those crappy, hollywood diets, it still applies to us too, does it not?[/quote]

Bump the no MCT oils

So no shit, the doc says not to count egg carb on the AD on his site? Wow I gotta check that out. If I only knew this months ago.

Well counting fiber isn’t as easy as it seems but the Doc did say you count 0.5 to every gram of soluble fiber. I just use .25 grams per gram of fiber since its hard to differentiate what’s soluble and insoluble by looking at the labels.

Net carbs do not include sugar alcohols ex. sorbitol. On the AD you would count those. On Atkins you would not. There goes my so called low carb chocolate bar from Trader Joes…

6736

[quote]Hagar wrote:
jakshafter wrote:
I downloaded the AD book off the web and i started the diet yesterday. I am feeling alright so far but i am craving some carbs already. Wish me luck.

Good luck. Jak Are you bulking or cutting?[/quote]

I am probably at 15-17% bf right now. I want to get down to the 10 to 12 range and do a clean bulk. I bulked this summer after taking a long time off from the gym (got married). I did the madcow 5x5 and put on about 25 pounds over the last 4 months.

I am thinking about doing another round of the 5x5 my body seems to respond really well to it. Are there any programs that do better on this diet? The book i think said that it would work with anything, but i like experience over just book knowledge.

6737

I eat close to a dozen eggs a day and never count the carbs in them. Each egg has like what .5 grams of carbs? Besides an egg is a pure protein and fat food. I see no logic in counting it towards your daily total.

6738

Heya all yo AD gurus. I started the AD about a week ago now. So far it seems to be going great and I am hitting my calories BW x 18 without a problem.

My issue is with the carbs. I am consistently hitting about 4% of my calories from carbs (according to fitday.com tracking) and of that 4% some is fiber as well. Here is a sample:

grams   	cals  	%total

Total: 4622
Fat: 337 3032 67%
Sat: 142 1274 28%
Poly: 32 292 6%
Mono: 88 792 18%
Carbs: 65 165 4%
Fiber: 24 0 0%
Protein: 328 1312 29%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

As you can see, I had 65 gram of carbs, 24 where fiber. This is an issue I think as I am almost always hiting 35-42 grams of carbs instead of the 30 I am suppose to stay under.

Most of the carbs that are not fiber are the few I get from things like cheese, whey shakes, cream, etc. Is going over this much consistently a problem? Am I gonna have to cut some cheese, the cream, etc?

6739

So, I have felt more or less crappy since Sunday night/Monday morning. I think I am getting better but slowly. I gave up on my workout on Monday after it did not go smoothly and do not plan on lifting today either. I only got about 5 hours of sleep last night.

Bottom line, I am concerned that I will not be glycogen depleted enough over the weekend. Has anyone else been in this situation before?

I am on my feet walking all over my grocery store every day and do some minor lifting/squating/lunging throughout the day, but nothing major. That may drop the glycogen some but maybe not enough.

6740

[quote]jakshafter wrote:
Hagar wrote:
jakshafter wrote:
I downloaded the AD book off the web and i started the diet yesterday. I am feeling alright so far but i am craving some carbs already. Wish me luck.

Good luck. Jak Are you bulking or cutting?

I am probably at 15-17% bf right now. I want to get down to the 10 to 12 range and do a clean bulk. I bulked this summer after taking a long time off from the gym (got married). I did the madcow 5x5 and put on about 25 pounds over the last 4 months.

I am thinking about doing another round of the 5x5 my body seems to respond really well to it. Are there any programs that do better on this diet? The book i think said that it would work with anything, but i like experience over just book knowledge.[/quote]

I just work out like I always have. The only difference is I’ll move whatever bodypart I want to focus on to monday. Right now thats legs.

6741

[quote]LeoDeSol wrote:
Heya all yo AD gurus. I started the AD about a week ago now. So far it seems to be going great and I am hitting my calories BW x 18 without a problem.

My issue is with the carbs. I am consistently hitting about 4% of my calories from carbs (according to fitday.com tracking) and of that 4% some is fiber as well. Here is a sample:

grams   	cals  	%total

Total: 4622
Fat: 337 3032 67%
Sat: 142 1274 28%
Poly: 32 292 6%
Mono: 88 792 18%
Carbs: 65 165 4%
Fiber: 24 0 0%
Protein: 328 1312 29%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

As you can see, I had 65 gram of carbs, 24 where fiber. This is an issue I think as I am almost always hiting 35-42 grams of carbs instead of the 30 I am suppose to stay under.

Most of the carbs that are not fiber are the few I get from things like cheese, whey shakes, cream, etc. Is going over this much consistently a problem? Am I gonna have to cut some cheese, the cream, etc?[/quote]

I take it your bulking? 40 grams of carbs is fine for those levels. Thats close to where I’m at only my pro is 400+grams a day