My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
6362

[quote]nycsoccax wrote:
Well, I don’t need to enlighten you, the other guys have pretty much said what was needed to be said. I don’t mean 50 grams of carbs, I meant that I don’t have to be exact at 30, which can be really annoying when watching for hidden carbs. I’m sure going over a few grams won’t effect your state of ketosis, based on their research.

[/quote]

nycsoccax, what I’ve find in research is that some people piss ketones only with under 20g/day, while others can go up to 50g/day and still piss ketones. At either of these levels though a high reliance on fat for energy is going to be used. But whether all the adaptations take place to become a complete fat burner is another story though.

From what I’ve read on pubmed and in books like The Anabolic Solution it takes an initial time put in (2-4 weeks) to become fat adapted enough in order to stay fat adapted while raising carb amounts higher, as in to 60g/day or so.

The Natural Hormonal Enhancement “general public” plan written by Rob Faigin says to keep carbs below 60g/day after being adapted. But for the “bodybuilder’s” version of the Natural Hormonal Enhancement plan he suggests keeping carb at a max of 30g/day. He has many studies backing up the reasons for keeping it at 30g/day, mostly because ketone and FFA use by muscles shows to be protein sparing as long as your in a positive nitrogen balance in the first place.

Then there’s the author Anthony Colpo, who says keeping carbs at 60-90g per day is more protein sparing, who also offers up studies supporting his suggestions.

I believe that they are both probably right, but I don’t see a person becoming completely fat adapted on Anthony’s ideas. Also, I believe it matter’s more on things like genetics and how the person has their training structured.

What I’m trying to say is that there is so much research that has been done supporting almost everyones idea that its not easy to pick one that will be perfect, and who says there is one that’s perfect. But DEFINITELY do not change your views after reading something on this forum, go out and check for yourself before changing anything.

6363

So today is my 3rd day on the AD, and I have been diligent about counting the calories and meeting my marks. I’m around 175, so I’ve been shooting for 3200 calories a day. My question is, if I’m still hungry, can I keep eating? (Provided I stay under the 30g of carbs)

My goal is not weight loss, but I’m looking for the beneficial anabolic effects, and to put on some weight. I’ve read about the mass phase, but I wondered if that would pose any problems during the transitional period? So should I stay relatively close to the 3200 calories or am I free to eat when I’d like?

6364

The two part article below is a good read too, although, not everyone can agree on the finer points of low carb diets:

Part 1:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1138762

Part 2:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1141913

I particularly found this excerpt interesting:

“if ketosis is the goal, protein intake should be set around .8 to 1 grams per pound of lean body mass, but not higher. Reason being, even if carbohydrate is severely restricted, a high protein intake may keep you from reaching ketosis due to gluconeogenesis, or the conversion of protein to glucose within the body.”

-james

6365

[quote]nycsoccax wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
nycsoccax wrote:
I’m glad that we’ve established that it is okay to go over 30 grams of carbs without having an effect on the diet. I was generally very strict and tried aiming around 25g a day just to be sure… but now I won’t count every single hidden carb.

Whooohhhhh easy now,…where did we establish that?

Far as I know we’ve just been talking about it and we don’t have any long term users claiming this to be fact do we? I’m still of the the notion that if you go over that you will fuck up the fat burning mode…I know some guys tweak it but that’s way into the AD, like a year or more for some of the guys I’ve read about…and one extra day during the week for moderate carb ups has been talked about, but again these are supposedly only for people who have been a year or so in…

I would love to be able to slam like 50g instead of 30 or less, especially around workouts a bit more, but I don’t know that we have that fully “established” yet…

              If I'm wrong please enlighten me..
               Tonebone

Well, I don’t need to enlighten you, the other guys have pretty much said what was needed to be said. I don’t mean 50 grams of carbs, I meant that I don’t have to be exact at 30, which can be really annoying when watching for hidden carbs. I’m sure going over a few grams won’t effect your state of ketosis, based on their research.

[/quote]

nycsoccax,

You should still be diligent in keeping track of your carbs, “hidden” or not. The 30g is something you should be shooting for consistently as you work towards adaptation. The Dr. even suggests that you can up your carbs, but if you aren’t keeping track of the hidden stuff then you will never really know where you are even at the 30g level.

Yeah, it would be easier not to include certain things, but the incidentals can add up quick. Err on the side of caution and keep track.

By the way, the diet has nothing to do with Ketosis. Whether you are in Ketosis or not has nothing to do with the AD. If you keep your carbs at 30g until you are adapted you will be fine, and I guarantee you will be glad you did. :wink:

Don’t confuse what was said earlier(posts) with permission to be lax on counting CHO. Just keep up the good work and adaptation is your prize.

Best, UE

6366

so do I count alcoholic calories as carb calories then?

6367

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
Someone was arguing about the AD on another forum and I posted a snippet from here, which the poster dismantled. Let’s see what an AD guru has to say about this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhuge67
Glycogen stores empty = KETOSIS

True[/quote]
YUP![quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhuge67
Increased Fat intake = Increase in lipolytic enzymes

In caloric equilibrium/deficit. Otherwise more lipogenic enzymes present which will inhibit lipolytic processes[/quote]
Wow, if thats true then how do you build muscle? In a caloric deficit or equalibrium? C’mon. LOL[quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhuge67
Increased lipolytic enzymes = FFA use for energy

True[/quote]
YUP![quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhuge67
Glycogen stores empty = FFA and Ketones for energy

Depends on stress levels. The more epinephrine or cortisol the higher chance of muscle catabolism regardless of “adaption”[/quote]
Actually the “dismantler” incorrectly quoted me, but anyhow, we are talking about the Anabolic Diet right? Adaptation DOES make a difference. Following the proper AD protocol with sufficient Fat and Protein intake WILL result in FFA and Ketones for energy. Obviously cortisol and the catecholamines play a part in muscle catabolism(no matter what diet you are on). That is a moot point. Although the AD provides for reduced cortisol levels and an anabolic environment for the catecholamines to have a reduced effect based on AD guidelines.[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhuge67
FFA and Ketones for energy = MEGA fat burning and protein sparing

Again, in a calorie deficit.
[/quote]
LOL But not in an equilibrium this time huh? Well it must be that any extra calories shuts down your fat burning. So in a caloric surplus we must all just defy physiology and only burn muscle. Joking this time. Sounds like a typical response from the unADucated.

Hey dhuge,

I saw how you handled those cats and it made me proud. Stay strong bro.

Best, UE

6368

I’m on day 6 of the induction phase and am considering doing my carb up on day 11 instead of day 12.

Does anyone think this will make that big of a difference? Especially if I possibly limit my carbs even moreso towards the end of the week?

I start a new job on my 12th day and don’t feel like hitting the carb coma on my first day.

6369

[quote]JoeyD20 wrote:
so do I count alcoholic calories as carb calories then?[/quote]

Carbs from alcohol most certainly do count against the 30g/day limit.

AD

6370

Anabolci Diet is seriously the best diet…I wish I could get on it, but I’m cutting bodyfat, and carb ups aren’t optimal for me, atleast according to CT in his article.

6371

I have seen in previous post about being able to eat hot wings but does anybody have any idea on if there is any signifient carbs in mild wing sauce? I know it’s probally just a quess without knowing the contents but I have 10 whole fried mild wings I was thinking of scarfing down today…

6372

Hi All

Do i need to do the two week low carb Assessment Phase. Or can i just start 5 days high fat 2 days high carbs.

Mark

6373

Hey fellas, I’m in my third week on the AD and loving it.

HOWEVER,

I cannot get a good night’s sleep. I sleep like a baby on the carb-up days. On weekdays I go to bed and my heart is racing and I cannot get to sleep. Has anyone else noticed this? Any suggestions??

By the way, I’m loving the AD “lifestyle.” I’m loving what I get to eat both during the week and on the weekend. I’m hooked!

6374

[quote]natural59 wrote:
The two part article below is a good read too, although, not everyone can agree on the finer points of low carb diets:

Part 1:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1138762

Part 2:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1141913

I particularly found this excerpt interesting:

“if ketosis is the goal, protein intake should be set around .8 to 1 grams per pound of lean body mass, but not higher. Reason being, even if carbohydrate is severely restricted, a high protein intake may keep you from reaching ketosis due to gluconeogenesis, or the conversion of protein to glucose within the body.”

-james[/quote]

Just an update of the above…

I read that two days ago, and immediately put it to the test.

Once I got my bf% down to where I wanted it, 10%-ish. I wanted to keep it there, so I’ve been monitoring skinfolds for about 3 months now. I carry the most fat right around my navel, where the fold has been 3/4" for the past 2 months, with little variation. Right where I wanted it. All other areas, love handles, etc., have been 1/2" or less.

After 7 full days on the AD, my skinfolds had not changed, but after reading the above excerpt (from linked articles), I decided to cut my protein down a bit, so instead of 2 scoops (50g.) of whey protein, 3xdaily, I started taking 1.5 scoops (37.5g.) 3xdaily. When I woke up this morning, start of day 10, my navel skinfold was 1/2", for the time in 2 the months of monitoring it. The total protein “deficit” was 37.5g per day.

Since this diet is an experiment on my own biology, I found that interesting, and thought I’d share it. Perhaps, if anyone is trying to cut on this diet and finding it difficult to do so, or aren’t finding themselves fat adapted, in ketosis, or whatever your goal is, cutting your protein intake may be key.

Of course, I’m reserving judgment for now, but it may be an important point. I’ll keep experimenting…

-james

6375

[quote]markandspike wrote:
Hi All

Do i need to do the two week low carb Assessment Phase. Or can i just start 5 days high fat 2 days high carbs.

Mark[/quote]

I recommend anyone interested in the AD read at least the first 25 pages to this thread. Almost all of the information you need is in those 25 pages, and this has been discussed there…

You can, but it is reported to take longer to become fully fat adapted by doing so.

-james

6376

[quote]Filmmakerr wrote:
Anabolci Diet is seriously the best diet…I wish I could get on it, but I’m cutting bodyfat, and carb ups aren’t optimal for me, atleast according to CT in his article. [/quote]

With all due respect to CT, I personally lost 25 LBS in 12 weeks on the AD. AND that is with UNCONTROLLED/UNCLEAN carbups (I’m talkin’ Pizza, Tirimisu, KFC…even mixing in P/F/C meals). Although, I did pretty much (with 1-2 meals/weekend exceptions…but those were HUGE cheat meals) stick to my daily caloric intake plans.

AND, I always did at LEAST a 36 hour carb up, and more often than not, it was 48 hours.

FYI.

AD

6377

[quote]markandspike wrote:
Hi All

Do i need to do the two week low carb Assessment Phase. Or can i just start 5 days high fat 2 days high carbs.

Mark[/quote]

yes

6378

[quote]koots wrote:
Hey fellas, I’m in my third week on the AD and loving it.

HOWEVER,

I cannot get a good night’s sleep. I sleep like a baby on the carb-up days. On weekdays I go to bed and my heart is racing and I cannot get to sleep. Has anyone else noticed this? Any suggestions??

By the way, I’m loving the AD “lifestyle.” I’m loving what I get to eat both during the week and on the weekend. I’m hooked![/quote]

How long before bed is your last meal? Do you train a few hours before bed?

A lot of guys save their CHO for a larger CHO containing meal as their last meal of the day.

Just a thought.

AD

6379

[quote]nycsoccax wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
nycsoccax wrote:
I’m glad that we’ve established that it is okay to go over 30 grams of carbs without having an effect on the diet. I was generally very strict and tried aiming around 25g a day just to be sure… but now I won’t count every single hidden carb.

Whooohhhhh easy now,…where did we establish that?

Far as I know we’ve just been talking about it and we don’t have any long term users claiming this to be fact do we? I’m still of the the notion that if you go over that you will fuck up the fat burning mode…

I know some guys tweak it but that’s way into the AD, like a year or more for some of the guys I’ve read about…and one extra day during the week for moderate carb ups has been talked about, but again these are supposedly only for people who have been a year or so in…

I would love to be able to slam like 50g instead of 30 or less, especially around workouts a bit more, but I don’t know that we have that fully “established” yet…

              If I'm wrong please enlighten me..
               Tonebone

Well, I don’t need to enlighten you, the other guys have pretty much said what was needed to be said. I don’t mean 50 grams of carbs, I meant that I don’t have to be exact at 30, which can be really annoying when watching for hidden carbs. I’m sure going over a few grams won’t effect your state of ketosis, based on their research.

[/quote]

I was using that number in a general way, you say that under 30 is “annoying”…well, no shit…that’s the whole point is keeping track of all carbs, hidden or not…your attitude would most likely lead to over carbing easily, and thus defeating your goals of fat burning…I don’t see any one else “saying what needed to be said”, to back what you are saying…

Bizmark enlightened us to Colpo’s feelings on the extra carbs with further explaining that he isn’t fully buying this idea.

Having said that, I feel what you’re saying, I would love to not have to “watch” the carb intake so much, but have to until months of being adapted…
anyway, good luck with getting back to watching those carbs dude.
It’s all worth it when you see the fat melting off after cutting fat cals down…

               TB
6380

[quote]steelerfan wrote:
I have seen in previous post about being able to eat hot wings but does anybody have any idea on if there is any signifient carbs in mild wing sauce? I know it’s probally just a quess without knowing the contents but I have 10 whole fried mild wings I was thinking of scarfing down today… [/quote]

I’m sure there is…it’s sweet right? carbs…this is the kind of thing that will fuck up the diet if you don’t know exactly what the fuck you’re eating…they add up very quickly to 30g,…

              Now if you had the amount calculated, and had room to eat them, which you probably would, then eat them if you must..but that's where individual attention to detail plays into success..

                  TB
6381

[quote]markandspike wrote:
Hi All

Do i need to do the two week low carb Assessment Phase. Or can i just start 5 days high fat 2 days high carbs.

Mark[/quote]

According the Mauro, you can do that, but it will take at least a month to fat adapt…possibly longer…

I would do it the 12 day method, and be done with it…most people adapt in 5-7 days according to Mauro…but not always, and that’s why the 12 day method works…period.

              it's your choice, take more time and not be sure, or just go for it...and be adapted.
               TB