My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
6302

Thanks for all the advice, this something I’m trying to clarify. I am using the “Radical Diet” which actually instructs that low of calories 1000-1200. And I know muscle will be lost in this process due to the low calories. And yes, I don’t want to lose muscle. I’ll see how it goes.

That is another thing I’m trying to learn as I go, what would be the correct amount of calories for me? And all of your advice is very helpful. I may increase on some days and see how that works out in terms of energy and strength. Thanks again!

6303

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Hey James, sounds good, I usually hover between 20-30 myself…watch yourself though big guy, you don’t want to get into ketosis on this diet…which will happen if you go too low…

Hagar knows a lot about ketosis, as he was on bodyopus before, so he could tell you more specifically how low you could safely go w/out hitting ketosis…
see ya,
TB
[/quote]

InTheZone, it doesn’t matter what anybody says, if your getting less than 30g of cho per day, or if your at 30g of cho, your going to be in deep ketosis. I’ve been on the diet for a little less than a year now, and I’m in ketosis even when I’ve gone up to 50g.

I did the whole ketostix thing to check. (Also, just because ketones are not showing up on ketostix does not mean that your not in ketosis. It simply means that your urine does not have ketones, and for some reason your cells are using up the rest, or your breathing them out.)

I realize that it depends on alot of variances, like what carbohydrates are used to make up that 50g and genetic differences… but to say that the AD is not a ketogenic diet is very wrong.

I know that some of you have mentioned that this is a free fatty acid diet, and that free fatty acids are the primary form of fuel used on the AD… well thats true after about a month of adaptation. In the beginning ketones are used by most cells.

But after about a month of adaptation FFA’s are the primary fuel source for muscles and other processes, while ketones are still the primary fuel for the brain. This is regardless of whether you have your cho at 10g/day or 30g/day. (The following study shows this process going on with humans in a controlled medical lab:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=524027

Also, if you guys wanna learn more about this stuff alot of it is in the Anabolic Solution, but alot of it isn’t. So check out Lyle McDonald’s books and do some study searching on your own at websites like Pubmed.

6304

[quote]Bizmark wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Hey James, sounds good, I usually hover between 20-30 myself…watch yourself though big guy, you don’t want to get into ketosis on this diet…which will happen if you go too low…

Hagar knows a lot about ketosis, as he was on bodyopus before, so he could tell you more specifically how low you could safely go w/out hitting ketosis…
see ya,
TB

InTheZone, it doesn’t matter what anybody says, if your getting less than 30g of cho per day, or if your at 30g of cho, your going to be in deep ketosis. I’ve been on the diet for a little less than a year now, and I’m in ketosis even when I’ve gone up to 50g.

I did the whole ketostix thing to check. (Also, just because ketones are not showing up on ketostix does not mean that your not in ketosis. It simply means that your urine does not have ketones, and for some reason your cells are using up the rest, or your breathing them out.)

I realize that it depends on alot of variances, like what carbohydrates are used to make up that 50g and genetic differences… but to say that the AD is not a ketogenic diet is very wrong.

I know that some of you have mentioned that this is a free fatty acid diet, and that free fatty acids are the primary form of fuel used on the AD… well thats true after about a month of adaptation. In the beginning ketones are used by most cells.

But after about a month of adaptation FFA’s are the primary fuel source for muscles and other processes, while ketones are still the primary fuel for the brain. This is regardless of whether you have your cho at 10g/day or 30g/day. (The following study shows this process going on with humans in a controlled medical lab:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=524027

Also, if you guys wanna learn more about this stuff alot of it is in the Anabolic Solution, but alot of it isn’t. So check out Lyle McDonald’s books and do some study searching on your own at websites like Pubmed.
[/quote]

Well put Biz, but according to the doc, we’re not in Ketosis at his numbers, so are you saying he’s wrong?
You have extensive knowledge in this area that’s for sure…just curious if you completely disagree with Mauro on this topic or not…
TB

6305

[quote]Bizmark wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Hey James, sounds good, I usually hover between 20-30 myself…watch yourself though big guy, you don’t want to get into ketosis on this diet…which will happen if you go too low…

Hagar knows a lot about ketosis, as he was on bodyopus before, so he could tell you more specifically how low you could safely go w/out hitting ketosis…
see ya,
TB

InTheZone, it doesn’t matter what anybody says, if your getting less than 30g of cho per day, or if your at 30g of cho, your going to be in deep ketosis. I’ve been on the diet for a little less than a year now, and I’m in ketosis even when I’ve gone up to 50g.

I did the whole ketostix thing to check. (Also, just because ketones are not showing up on ketostix does not mean that your not in ketosis. It simply means that your urine does not have ketones, and for some reason your cells are using up the rest, or your breathing them out.)

I realize that it depends on alot of variances, like what carbohydrates are used to make up that 50g and genetic differences… but to say that the AD is not a ketogenic diet is very wrong.

I know that some of you have mentioned that this is a free fatty acid diet, and that free fatty acids are the primary form of fuel used on the AD… well thats true after about a month of adaptation. In the beginning ketones are used by most cells.

But after about a month of adaptation FFA’s are the primary fuel source for muscles and other processes, while ketones are still the primary fuel for the brain. This is regardless of whether you have your cho at 10g/day or 30g/day. (The following study shows this process going on with humans in a controlled medical lab:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=524027

Also, if you guys wanna learn more about this stuff alot of it is in the Anabolic Solution, but alot of it isn’t. So check out Lyle McDonald’s books and do some study searching on your own at websites like Pubmed.
[/quote]

DING DING DING!

Bizmark, you win the true knowledge award in my opinion. I was just about to comment on this, and boom there you are with it. You are EXACTLY correct.

Despite what anybody says, the 30g of carbs does NOT keep you out of ketosis. In fact this diet has nothing to do with being in ketosis at all(as far as ketonuria goes). The next person that says “if you are in ketosis then you are not on the AD” should be beaten with a whole wheat pasta noodle.

Triglycerides AND ketones are used by the body on this diet. When you load on the AD you are refilling your glycogen stores. Now when these glycogen stores are depleted then you start producing ketones for use by the brain and other tissues to function. That is why you load again.

Some people begin showing Ketonuria(Ketones in the urine) sooner than others based on several factors with activity being the main one. There is a big difference between someone with a desk job and someone doing manual labor as far as glycogen depletion setting in even on 30g carbs.

The lower your glycogen gets, the more likely you are to start showing ketones in your urine. There is no way around this besides upping your CHO during the week, but I have found 60g at times to still be insufficient.

I have used the strips for the past two years and have seen what effects certain things have on ketone levels so despite what people want to think or say, my research strangely enough matches the data available that I(and from the sounds of it Bizmark) have read.

Now if somebody says that the doctor told Nelson Montana that if you are in Ketosis then you are not on the AD, then I wish you the best, but you should realize that that was like 8-9 years ago and there is a bigger body of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Glycogen stores empty = KETOSIS
Increased Fat intake = Increase in lipolytic enzymes
Increased lipolytic enzymes = FFA use for energy
FFA use energy = Adaptation
Adaptation + Glycogen stores empty = FFA and Ketones for energy
FFA and Ketones for energy = MEGA fat burning and protein sparing

Best, UE

6306

well put by both of you guys…

UE,BIz, does that mean that you can up the limit for weekly carbs to 50g without going back to burning carbs instead of fat or not??

Just using that number, basicly asking if you go over 30g, if that’s ok now that there is more evidence than when the books were written, as far as staying fat adapted.

       I mean ketosis smoshis, what effect does it have on being fat adapted?

              good to see you guys on here today, btw.

                TB
6307

InTheZone wrote:
I mean ketosis smoshis, what effect does it have on being fat adapted?

Yes please, do tell? I’ve read Lyle’s articles and he claims

“Practical minimum to avoid excessive muscle breakdown: 50 g/day Practical minimum. For individuals who function poorly in ketosis: 100 g/day”

             and

“for every 2 work sets or so, you’ll need 5 grams of carbohydrates to replenish the glycogen used.”

Having 50-100 as a base and adding per energy expendeture.

But I want to know real life experience, especially as a newbie!

6308

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Well put Biz, but according to the doc, we’re not in Ketosis at his numbers, so are you saying he’s wrong?
You have extensive knowledge in this area that’s for sure…just curious if you completely disagree with Mauro on this topic or not…
TB[/quote]

Hehehe, I don’t really know how to answer that. If it wasn’t for Dr. DiPasquale’s ideas I don’t know how I would have ever reached the goals I’ve reached. But just from experience testing with the ketostix and all that, I’ve never been out of ketosis at 30g carbs. But your right, here’s what he said (This excerpt was taken from the PowerTalk series on T-Nation):

"MD: That’s right. This is where I differ from everybody else and why the Anabolic Diet is so effective where others are not. Ketosis is very catabolic! First of all, the Anabolic Diet keeps you at 30 grams of carbs a day, five days a week. That keeps you out of ketosis, but the body begins to adapt to using fat for fuel.

On the weekend, you can eat as many carbs as you like. That’s the anabolic phase, but the body is still in a fatburning mode. Once there’s a spillover of carb calories to fat storage, after no more than 48 hours, you go back to 30 carbohydrate grams a day. Basically, this is meant to be a diet that can be followed easily.

Who wants to wake up at night to eat or spend each hour of the day watching exactly how many calories you eat? What’s interesting is that I’ve found that triglyceride levels rise on the days when high carbs are ingested."

Personally, I’ve never been out of ketosis at 30g/day, but everyone is different. Also, it’s a matter of how you feel. If you feel fine at 10g/day, then do it. If you feel fine at 60g/day, but not at 30g/day, then do it. I find that I feel sluggish at about 30-40g per day, but fine with anything under that. It also matters how many I eat at one time.

It’s all variant, thats why the Dr. included his chart for adjusting your carb intake on how you feel.

But to answer your question, in this case I do disagree with Dr. DiPasquale, just from testing on myself.

6309

Also, if your CHO loading on the weekends and such, maybe would it be wise to look at it as a weekly number of CHO g’s instead? Keeping most of the days low and including what is being consumed on the weekends? I think this is the philosphy behind the diet anyway, right?

6310

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
well put by both of you guys…

UE,BIz, does that mean that you can up the limit for weekly carbs to 50g without going back to burning carbs instead of fat or not??

Just using that number, basicly asking if you go over 30g, if that’s ok now that there is more evidence than when the books were written, as far as staying fat adapted.

       I mean ketosis smoshis, what effect does it have on being fat adapted?

              good to see you guys on here today, btw.

                TB[/quote]

There is actually a lot of research being done on this now. A trainer in Australia named Anthony Colpo followed ketogenic diets for several years and did observations on himself and clients, he just released a book called “The Fat Loss Bible” giving reasons why ketosis is not so great for keeping muscle mass.

(I bought the book because I thought my views were becoming too dogmatic =), so I wanted a fresh perspective, plus I was just curious.)

His reasons were actually pretty good, what I got from it was that by upping your carb amount to 60-90g daily your body will not need go into glycogenesis (process of breaking down protein to form glycogen) to make the glycogen it needs for other daily processes. Therefor all the protein you ingest would go to repairing cells.

And since you’ve dropped carbs to below 100g your still going to be developing ketosis so that ketones can be used as the primary source of fuel. (He also provides studies supporting all his views, like most authors.)

He also keeps carbs really strict. Doing very small carb loads only after grueling 45 min sessions of HIIT or very long endurance activity because of increased insulin sensitivity.

I was thinking about trying all this out to see how it works, not gonna be able to for a couple of months though because I have to have all my energies on school and work =(.

6311

[quote]Clark Banner wrote:
Thanks for all the advice, this something I’m trying to clarify. I am using the “Radical Diet” which actually instructs that low of calories 1000-1200. And I know muscle will be lost in this process due to the low calories. And yes, I don’t want to lose muscle. I’ll see how it goes.

That is another thing I’m trying to learn as I go, what would be the correct amount of calories for me? And all of your advice is very helpful. I may increase on some days and see how that works out in terms of energy and strength. Thanks again!

[/quote]

If I’m not mistaken, the conventional wisdom says:

At 228lbs., 28%bf, you have approximately 64 lbs. of fat, and 164lbs. of lbm. To maintain your current weight (not lbm) you can use 12x228 = 2736 calories. If you want to lose “weight,” a 500cal. deficit per day is recommended, so that’d be 2236 cal. per day, which equates to one pound of “weight” loss per week, 500 cal x 7 = 3500, the number of calories to burn one pound.

Weight loss should be no more than 1-2 pounds per week. More than that can be detrimental to your health. Remember, you didn’t put it on overnight…

-james

6312

Weight loss should be no more than 1-2 pounds per week. More than that can be detrimental to your health. Remember, you didn’t put it on overnight…

I was reading about that on Lyle’s Articles, he’s saying the same thing. I’m definately going to re consider this whole thing, while keeping the carbs at 30g for now. Good lookin out! Thanks Again!

6313

Is it true that if you don’t complete the 12 days induction phase then the diet won’t work? What if someone completes 6 days and then does a smaller carb-up (for sanity’s sake) and then gets back to the diet for Mon-Fri?

The e-book talks about 5 days being a “compromise” if one can’t make it the whole 12 days; is that the correct interpretation?

6314

dhuge-I would highly reccomend doing the full 12 days. I personally didn’t have the book when I first started the diet, and missed the part about the 12 day break-in. I went right in to the 5/2 schedule and ended up not really adapting for about a month. Looking back I would have done the hole 12 days with out a doubt. Just tough it out, and good luck either way.

6315

If I remember correctly I think Disc Hoss said that immediately jumping into the 5/2 day split without the 12 day intro will still work, it will just take 2-4 weeks whereas the 12 day pretty much guarantees the shift.

I think that’s right. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

6316

Alright, I’ll tough it out…it’s just going to be TIRING on day 9 or so…

6317

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
If I remember correctly I think Disc Hoss said that immediately jumping into the 5/2 day split without the 12 day intro will still work, it will just take 2-4 weeks whereas the 12 day pretty much guarantees the shift.

I think that’s right. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.[/quote]

Could someone else chime in on this though, if they know that this is a little bit off?

Thanks,

DHYOOOOGE. lol

6318

have some saturated fat. i think it’s essential for testosterone production.

quote]Clark Banner wrote:
Yo! Party people, I’ve spent the last 2 weeks reading every damn thing I could on the forum! I have officially started this diet, i am 3 days in the 12 day entry, Already lost 6 pounds! Don’t know what thats about, maybe all water? But I am already visually leaner.

I am simply trying to shed fat. 228lbs @ 28% bf, 5’11" former MMA dude, not pro just for fun! Trying to get back down to my fighting weight and bf% of 165 @ 5% ok, realistically 5% at 180 would be nice. But either way, in terms of energy and how busy I am, currently indie film prod./dir./actor. No time to wait for high carb diets to cut. I need Fight Club physique Yesterday!

This diet works! I can maintain this thing probably forever, and yes I plan to. Diabete runs in the family and carbs to treat me well, so…You guessed it. I am on the Radical Diet for now, I will stick with 1 day a week carb up for sanity. I haven’t felt sluggish yet with 1000 cal, actually my energy has increased, I kick box twice a week, hit the gym (wts & cardio) at least twice a week.

Strentgh has not decreased any, still hanging in there with the kickboxing, so we’'ll see. After I hit my goal weight, I’ll increase the calories to increase strength.

Frankly, I don’t care about size, I put on muscle too easy! Its probably the genetic reaction to carbs, and God knows I’ve eaten a Lot! All I care about is getting LEAN, quick, strong. Besides I don’t need the extra weight for camera.

I prefer the more Roy Jones Jr. look as opposed to Dorian Yates. I don’t really have any ?'s just dropping by to say thanks! I’m currently on a 40-50% fat, 44-55% p, 5% carb. Keeping the carbs to 20g and fiber where it needs to be.

My only problem with this diet, and its just me I know, is that I cannot eat all the good stuff yet, i.e. bacon, high fat stuff. I’m keeping my fat clean (efa, flax) But when I get there, I’ll bump the calories and tasty fat.

Any suggestions to help me get leaner faster, would be greatly apprecieated! I’ll document my progress, as I think of it as inspirations to newbies, as all of you have done. Any rates of fat loss would be helpful also, we are all different I know, but it encourages me!

           God Bless Y'all![/quote]
6319

Yea, it probably will be pretty damn tiring, but also well worth it. I started doing the diet about 3 weeks before summer started and have really just started to dial in on the diet, but man was all the time in between worth it. In the past month I’ve gone up about 5 lbs, increased all my lifts drastically, and decreased my body fat quite a bit.

I think once you really find your groove on this diet, it is almost too easy to manipulate the way you look by adding lean mass, losing body fat, or doing both. Just stick with it for awhile and you will almost surely be amazed at what you can accomplish.

6320

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:
If I remember correctly I think Disc Hoss said that immediately jumping into the 5/2 day split without the 12 day intro will still work, it will just take 2-4 weeks whereas the 12 day pretty much guarantees the shift.

I think that’s right. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

Could someone else chime in on this though, if they know that this is a little bit off?

Thanks,

DHYOOOOGE. lol[/quote]

I would do the 12 days. You may shift before that, but why chance going down a road of even more upheaval than necessary. Did you crash yet? That can be a trip. I felt like I weighed 500 pounds and could barely keep my eyes open. Only lasted overnight though. I will also throw in for the 100th time that it will take significantly longer than 12 days to fully adapt. The metabolic shift is only the first stage. Once fully adapted you’ll wonder how anybody can stand eating a conventional diet. Changed my life. I can’t even believe how much better I do on a lipid based diet.

6321

Damn…well, i’ll stick it out. I feel like I crashed on day 3. I slept almost all day (besides going to the gym and eating) and just felt groggy and awful. The next day i felt refreshed and clear-headed. I think i still need to “crash” though…

Breath has been kinda weird (maybe ketosis?) and urine has smelled odd.