Dan John used to something called “meat and water” days. A few days a week while low carbing, he would have only meat and water…very basic. This could help on induction.
[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
how strict do i have to be on the induction?
The diet is pretty easy for me in terms of fats and proteins as i generally eat pretty well. however, stuff like celery and peanut butter, ketchup and ground beef, eggs, ranch and chicken all contain 2-5 grams of carbs each. add that throughout the day and i go over 30grams consistently
is this a problem?[/quote]
Yes. The celery is ok but count the carbs in eggs, ranch, ketchup, all that. You might even count the carbs in celery just for the induction, but after that I wouldn’t worry about it. There is a 1 carb ketchup out there made by Heinz that you can use, also.
You got to be careful with eating things that have carbs. I just don’t eat peanut butter much anymore, because I’d rather save some carbs for things that I’d rather have. Shit, I even quit having cottage cheese with peanut butter and flax before bed because I’d rather have a few pieces of sugarless gum throughout the day. You definately got to pick your battles on this diet.
im on Day 2 of this bad boy right now…i used to follow a TKD diet a year or so ago and had really good success…so giving this a whirl should be fun…
one thing ive found in the past is that i cant muster just downing olive oil plain so i go and get a wuality pesto sauce and just put it on everything…
the ingredients in the one ive found is basil ,olive oil, walnuts…
cant go wring there , and a tablespoon is 13 grams of fat…
Haven’t checked out this thread in a long time. Training and internet posting seem to drop off for me over the winter.
It’s amazing to me, this thread’s longevity. I’m also amused to see how many posts there are just before Spring Break and summer “get ready to take some layers off” weather.
Personally, I’ve always been an “on again, off again” kind of guy when it comes to good eating. I’ll get with the program for a while and then eat like shit for a while. Watching the Iowa’s Strongest Man really made me decide to check myself again, not that I was eating too bad these days.
Now, whenever I return to “good eating”, I inevitably return to something like the AD, low carbs, lots of meat, lots of fat and I feel and look better. No brainer, huh?
The only thing I’ve been contemplating lately is PWO nutrition. I?ve changed my tune on this topic, and I wanted to throw this out to the AD crowd.
I’ve been a hard-core heavy cream and whey powder kind of guy for a while, but after doing the V-diet over the winter, I’ve decided there really isn’t a good reason not to use PWO carbs.
I think the problem, if you’ll allow me a little tangent, is time under the curve, not area. If you picture a line graph of blood sugar (or insulin, as I’m not sure which is the causitive agent in my hypothesis) with time on the x axis, the area under the curve would be the total amount of the substance you’ve had in circulation over that time period. That’s what typical low carb diets minimize.
I’m suggesting that the AD is advantageous over typical diets because it minimizes the time that insulin/blood sugar is available to exert physiological effects, i.e. immediate hormonal regulation, gene expression, even psychological factors. I suspect it probably also minimizes the risk of glycosylating our epithelial cell surface proteins, but I’m not even in the neighborhood of having the chemistry expertise to say that.
I would further say that you could push that idea even farther, by eating low carb, moderate-high protein and high fat all the time, except for during and after a strenous workout. You?d see large peaks on the graph, but the time under the curve would remain small. Think “Get in, get out”. As long as the carbs are fast, and don’t have time to linger, I don’t think they’ll be a problem.
Subjectively, I know when I use a big whack of carbs periworkout, I get marked vasodialation within about 15 minutes, and a subsequent blood sugar crash (again, subjectively evaluated) an hour to an hour and a half later. If you have preworkout CHO, train for 90 minutes, have another CHO feeding and then 90 minutes ?till you crash, that?s still only 3 hours or so out of 24 every day when you?re elevating insulin/blood sugar, especially if the other hours of the day you?re either fasting (asleep) or eating a quality low carb diet. I don’t think that short time frame is really long enough to do much harm, especially when the value of periworkout CHO + protein is so well established by the literature. Bear in mind, this is just my gut feeling.
I suspect a much shorter, more frequent cycle also circumvents the cardiovascular changes which are seen during periods of fasting followed by refeeding, namely the changes in blood pressure and fluid compartment changes. This method would necessitate a specific periworkout feeding though. Don?t think you can CHO load every training day on corn flakes and bagels. It has to be something that?s fast, fast, fast, like Surge.
Basically, I see no reason to include carbs in your diet outside of the training window, and no reason to exclude them during the training window. The answer then, seems obvious?
So, in a nut shell, I’m all for some sort of purposeful, periodized carb consumption, but I would rather see it reduced to a daily cycle rather than a longer time frame. Is it still the AD, or something totally different? I don?t know.
I hope this hasn’t been hashed over in the months I’ve been absent the thread, and I hope y’all drum up some good discussion.
-Conor
Oh AD, where have you been all my life? I mean, damn, this is the only way I’m really comfortable eating. I really just don’t need carbs. Carbing up will be fun though (because once I get going, I love me some carbs)…I’ll be interested to see how much I can get away with. I’m very attuned to bloating, water retention and all that.
The best thing about this is that I’ll be in a position to have social meals on the weekends, to have a few drinks, etc. Frankly, this whole diet suits me to a T. I’m very excited.
I did about two weeks of the V-Diet and felt pretty weak, plus the weight was coming off so quickly, too quickly. And it was all coming off my waist, which confirmed for me that my bodyfat is indeed already around 10%. Now, considering that I’ve already been on a P+F diet for a couple weeks, and given my level of comfort with this type of diet, I’m going to assume that five days should be enough before my first carb load (yes, I’d like to have a nice meal with the family on Easter). I’m at the end of day 2 and loving every minute of it.
Today I had some Metabolic Drive +flax and two eggs for breakfast. I had some hard salami as a snack. For lunch I had a chicken caesar salad (with spinach, of course, and no carbs in the dressing). After workout I had two fresh 1/4-lbers with cheddar and broccoli. I had two more scrambled eggs (using less than an oz of milk) a couple hours ago. And now I’m finishing up my PB and cottage cheese. Definitely got my 20g fiber in, in fact that probably made up more than half of my total CHO intake. Clearly no problem staying below 30g of “real” carbs.
Ok I have been loosing weight fine up until now. I have restricted my portions, and stayed away from carbs for the most part. However have not paid too much attention to my diet since what I was doing was working…until now.
So now I am looking to refine my diet some more, to get back on track. I have read through a few of the beginning posts on this thread and have the hang of the diet, at least the break in period, and basic principles.
The only problem I have is that the recommended 18x body weight calorie intake is in no way shape or form ever going to happen until I want to put weight on ( If even then ). I weigh 235lb’s down from 266, and that would put me at eating a shit ton of food.
My normal calorie intake probably falls somewhere between 2,000-2,500. I am not sure since like I said I never tracked, but never needed to since I was losing.
So now that I am going to be tracking what goes into my mouth with www.fitday.com, I need a plan, and this seems like a pretty cool diet to try out.
However two things have me stuck, and that is how much cal intake during break in and subsequent weeks, not including the carb up days. Should I shoot for the cal intake recomended in the T-Dawg 2.0 diet since it is similiar? Then tweak there as needed.
Also how do you know when you’ve made the " Metablic shift" and are ready to start on the long term phase of carb cycling?
been reading up on vince goranda a bit and i think im going to go out and buy some liver tabs
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
I understand the 30 sec HIIT sessions tap into glycogen=good thing.
So…is it a good thing or a bad thing to use @10 second sprints on the AD? IF it taps into ATP, is that good or bad?
I assume what you are asking is, is it advisable (in the sense that it is doable and won’t make you suffer later) to do 10 second sprints on the AD when depleted?.. and the answer is yes. You should be fine.
Since you are fat adapted, ATP can easily be resynthesized when depleted with FFA.
Although, like I said earlier, I don’t know what the true cut-off point is (and imagine it does vary to a degree person to person).
Keep in mind though, the sprints CT suggests are between 40 and 60 meters, which, if you can’t finish in under 10 seconds, I will personally start running with you on the track.
Final verdict: alactic sprinting (less than ~10 seconds) is fine when depleted.[/quote]
So is the consensus that lactic sprinting (400s) is not fine when depleted?
[quote]conorh wrote:
The only thing I’ve been contemplating lately is PWO nutrition. I?ve changed my tune on this topic, and I wanted to throw this out to the AD crowd.
Basically, I see no reason to include carbs in your diet outside of the training window, and no reason to exclude them during the training window. The answer then, seems obvious?
[/quote]
Bump. I would like to know this as well. From reading shitload of articles and I would think it’s a good idea to use Surge during the training window since it has been proved that it doesn’t affect the fat gain/loss…
Damn, I was flipping through the book and noticed that Mauro gives cocaine a big thumbs down. Now what am I supposed to snort?
On a serious note, the book seems to indicate that PW carbs are OK. I mean, if you’re feeling fine, there’s no reason to add them. On the other hand…
"I did the ‘Mid-Week Carb Spike’ and/or increase my daily carbs so I’m not tire normally but now I lack energy during training. [What do I do?]
You need to take from 30 up to 100g of carbs half an hour after training to combat this lack of energy on training days. This should increase your muscle glycogen levels for subsequent training days and give you all the energy you need to train."
So the question is, “do you feel you need the PW carbs?” If the answer is, “yes,” then the diet seems to accommodate that.
After seeing the posts here concerning length of sprints in HIIT sesions I’m curious as to how using the Tabata Protocol would work on this diet. Any ideas?
[quote]wfifer wrote:
So the question is, “do you feel you need the PW carbs?” If the answer is, “yes,” then the diet seems to accommodate that. [/quote]
So if you planned to down 1-2 servings of Surge around every workout you’d have to be fat sdjusted before you started this, right?
[quote]ec_fritz wrote:
After seeing the posts here concerning length of sprints in HIIT sesions I’m curious as to how using the Tabata Protocol would work on this diet. Any ideas?[/quote]
I’ve done tabata bike sprints early in the week with no apparent problems. I’m afraid to try them later in the week because of 1.)at worst- muscle wasting and 2.)at best- horrible recovery and DOMS out the ass.
FWIW, I’ve noticed that bike sprints DURING a CHO-up are almost effortless (almost)
[quote]solidgk wrote:
wfifer wrote:
So the question is, “do you feel you need the PW carbs?” If the answer is, “yes,” then the diet seems to accommodate that.
So if you planned to down 1-2 servings of Surge around every workout you’d have to be fat sdjusted before you started this, right?
[/quote]
Right, and this takes MONTHS to happen. Like 4-6 months. Have you tried the AD, as written long enough to even know it doesn’t work for you?
[quote]josh.shafer wrote:
Right, and this takes MONTHS to happen. Like 4-6 months. Have you tried the AD, as written long enough to even know it doesn’t work for you?
[/quote]
No. Is this relevant?
[quote]solidgk wrote:
josh.shafer wrote:
Right, and this takes MONTHS to happen. Like 4-6 months. Have you tried the AD, as written long enough to even know it doesn’t work for you?
No. Is this relevant?
[/quote]
Yes it is, as the first 4-6 months is what will determine the success of the program (in terms of goals as well as time taken to achieve them).
AD
Well, if you look at the whole Q&A thing on carbs, you see that the entire process is quite lengthy. You essentially have to assess for 12 days, then do it again if you’re tired, then gradually increase your carbs week to week until you’re no longer tired, then add a mid-week carb-up if you’re still tired late in the week, then add PW carbs if your workouts suck, then increase overall carbs again if you’re still tired during workout.
The key is not to jump the gun and make sure you’re only eating extra carbs when you need to and in the smallest amount that is effective.
Buy the book. =P
[quote]wfifer wrote:
Well, if you look at the whole Q&A thing on carbs, you see that the entire process is quite lengthy. You essentially have to assess for 12 days, then do it again if you’re tired, then gradually increase your carbs week to week until you’re no longer tired, then add a mid-week carb-up if you’re still tired late in the week, then add PW carbs if your workouts suck, then increase overall carbs again if you’re still tired during workout.
The key is not to jump the gun and make sure you’re only eating extra carbs when you need to and in the smallest amount that is effective.
Buy the book. =P [/quote]
I’ve got the book, and have read the whole thing. My question above is purely academic. When I do start the AD I will be doing it exactly by the book. I’ve read enough to realize that you shouldn’t be tweaking for several months.
[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
solidgk wrote:
josh.shafer wrote:
Right, and this takes MONTHS to happen. Like 4-6 months. Have you tried the AD, as written long enough to even know it doesn’t work for you?
No. Is this relevant?
Yes it is, as the first 4-6 months is what will determine the success of the program (in terms of goals as well as time taken to achieve them).
AD[/quote]
I understand that the induction period is extremely important. However, Josh wrongly assumed that I was just going to jump into the AD using Surge, and his question about my experience with the AD was irrelevant to the purely academic question I was asking.
Wow, I totally did not read your question. Must be the lack of carbs…yeah, that’s it. I’m clearly not fat adapted yet!