My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

bkmacky9288 · March 31, 2007, 1:25pm

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Bizmark wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Bizmark wrote:
I see, I see. So does HIIT make up any of your depletion? I ask because I’m hesitant to do it on non carbup days. Thib thought that HIIT on a diet like the AD would start burning muscle… and I’ve heard such mixed opinions on it that I don’t know what to think.

He said, “If you’re not fat adapted.” That is a huge distinction that, if lost on you, means you really need to beef up on a lot of things. Start reading this thread from page 1. I did so; why won’t you?

No, he said [I do not recommend doing sprints on the AD because of the high chance that muscle will be used for fuel rather than fat.] That’s almost EXACTLY what Thib said when I asked him. And that’s almost exactly what I’ve read in countless other places.

I have actually only found once case where the study said FFA’s can be used for HIIT. All the others said that for HIIT, glycogen will be used regardless. That means that if our muscles are outa glycogen, their going to start using themselves to create more glycogen, since it can only come from protein or carbs. So later in the week when us AD’ers are super low on glycogen, sprints will most likely be using muscle mass from somewhere on your body to provide the energy needed.

California, please don’t bless me with anymore of your comments. Go do some sprints on friday afternoon for me instead.

I’m not taking sides in this, persay…but when I asked him if his cutting/fat loss program he recently posted here would be good with the AD, Thib said it would be fine, as long as one is fat adapted. And it includes long duration (two 20-30 minute jogging) as well as short duration (two sprinting) days.

Perhaps it’s better in this case due to the low distance/duration of each sprint? When I used to do HIIT, it was like 30 seconds running, 1-2 minutes walking…repeat 8 times.

But on his new program he has 30-60 meter sprints…with 2 minute rests. Much different than HIIT.

I don’t know exactly what the cut-off point is, but as I understand it, sprints of AROUND 10 seconds or so are primarily fueled by ATP.

However, HIIT utilizing 30 seconds or more preferentially tap in to glycogen (again, I am not sure of the cut-off point, but I believe there is a link between glycogen usage and lactic acid inducing exercises, ex: high reps).

From personal experience, doing either form of sprinting later on in the week is more difficult. However, doing HIIT with longer sprints (like the lactic acid inducing 30-40 second ones as espoused by CT and Poliquin for fat loss) late in the week (say, Thursday or Friday) is a trainwreck. Not only does the workout itself suffer, but so do you the next day.

Alactic HIIT, while also more taxing depleted, didn’t result in my feeling like a bus hit me the next day.

I’ve mentioned this earlier in the thread and I believe it’s a sound approach: for those dieting on the AD, 1 or 2 lactic acid inducing HIIT sessions early on in the week could aid in fat loss beyond the known that HIIT aids in fat loss. It would do so by depleting you that much earlier in the week, placing your body in primary fat burning mode that much sooner.

As a bonus, that you will still be having a regular scheduled carb-up should ensure that your metabolism isn’t dropping off too much from prolonged low-carb dieting.

-Stu[/quote]

as always your insights are appreciated,
thank you

solidgk · March 31, 2007, 2:12pm

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
From personal experience, doing either form of sprinting later on in the week is more difficult. However, doing HIIT with longer sprints (like the lactic acid inducing 30-40 second ones as espoused by CT and Poliquin for fat loss) late in the week (say, Thursday or Friday) is a trainwreck. Not only does the workout itself suffer, but so do you the next day.

Alactic HIIT, while also more taxing depleted, didn’t result in my feeling like a bus hit me the next day.

I’ve mentioned this earlier in the thread and I believe it’s a sound approach: for those dieting on the AD, 1 or 2 lactic acid inducing HIIT sessions early on in the week could aid in fat loss beyond the known that HIIT aids in fat loss. It would do so by depleting you that much earlier in the week, placing your body in primary fat burning mode that much sooner.

As a bonus, that you will still be having a regular scheduled carb-up should ensure that your metabolism isn’t dropping off too much from prolonged low-carb dieting.
-Stu[/quote]

So there’s no way that your body will be able to use fat for lactic acid inducing HIIT? Even when your fat adapted? If so, I’ll have to seriously reconsider starting this diet. The lactic acid inducing activities are a key part of many athletes’ training.

solidgk · March 31, 2007, 5:46pm

Hmm…This is Alessi talking about an AD style diet for anaerobic athletes:

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=461217

Here’s a DiPasq. quote contained in the response:

Dr. Mauro DiPasquale, who’s influenced the above coach and myself, points out in his book, The Metabolic Diet, "After 15 minutes of exercise, your glycogen supply in muscle is used for energy.

At this point your body has to revert to burning fat or muscle via gluconeogenesis for fuel. Unfortunately, when on a traditional high carb, low-fat diet your body isn’t very efficient at burning fat? almost half of what will be burned for energy will be muscle protein. Once you’ve shifted over on the higher fat/low carb diet, though, your body is primed to use fat for energy. In fact, it won’t even use up your glycogen stores before getting into fat stores. In this case, almost 90 percent of energy will be supplied from fat and only 10% from protein."

Alessi himself claims to follow an AD style diet while doing Meltdown training, which is obviously extremeley anaerobic/lactic acid based training, and only sleeping 5-6 hrs a night.

Poliquin was quoted in the Low Carb. Roundtable as saying that for an “energy systems athlete” such as a speed skater or kayaker, such a diet wouldn’t be PERFECT. But I suppose for team sport athletes it would be more appropriate?

solidgk · March 31, 2007, 5:49pm

One more thing. The article I linked 2 has 50gm/carbs a day, all post workout. However, Wed. and Sat. are 100gm carbs, and Sun. is 200gms. I suppose this is very similar to the anabolic diet, with a toned down weekend carbup and a midweek spike.

However, Alessi doesn’t mentioned an initial ultra low carb phase… would this still be necessary for the transition?

bkmacky9288 · March 31, 2007, 5:56pm

[quote]solidgk wrote:
One more thing. The article I linked 2 has 50gm/carbs a day, all post workout. However, Wed. and Sat. are 100gm carbs, and Sun. is 200gms. I suppose this is very similar to the anabolic diet, with a toned down weekend carbup and a midweek spike.

However, Alessi doesn’t mentioned an initial ultra low carb phase… would this still be necessary for the transition?[/quote]

just follow what the D man says…this is a thread for his diet not this Alessi character

bkmacky9288 · March 31, 2007, 6:25pm

on carb-ups does anyones body get overheated? all weekend my body gets over heated on the inside and the only thing that can keep me cool is direct …coolness like ice on my skin or a cool olympic bar

solidgk · March 31, 2007, 6:58pm

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
just follow what the D man says…this is a thread for his diet not this Alessi character[/quote]

This diet was set up for Alessi by Poliquin, who is close friends with “D man,” so it’s very relevant.

bkmacky9288 · March 31, 2007, 7:39pm

[quote]solidgk wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
just follow what the D man says…this is a thread for his diet not this Alessi character

This diet was set up for Alessi by Poliquin, who is close friends with “D man,” so it’s very relevant.

[/quote]

ok ok then the only thing i can think of is that Poliquin knows Alessi and knows how his body works and whats best for it based on experiences with him…this diet was made to fit the dietee so if thats how his shoe fits than hell it fits…sorry for immediatly denying you btw i dont think before i speak

solidgk · March 31, 2007, 8:38pm

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
solidgk wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
just follow what the D man says…this is a thread for his diet not this Alessi character

This diet was set up for Alessi by Poliquin, who is close friends with “D man,” so it’s very relevant.

ok ok then the only thing i can think of is that Poliquin knows Alessi and knows how his body works and whats best for it based on experiences with him…this diet was made to fit the dietee so if thats how his shoe fits than hell it fits…sorry for immediatly denying you btw i dont think before i speak[/quote]

What’s your point?

bkmacky9288 · March 31, 2007, 8:45pm

[quote]solidgk wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
solidgk wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
just follow what the D man says…this is a thread for his diet not this Alessi character

This diet was set up for Alessi by Poliquin, who is close friends with “D man,” so it’s very relevant.

ok ok then the only thing i can think of is that Poliquin knows Alessi and knows how his body works and whats best for it based on experiences with him…this diet was made to fit the dietee so if thats how his shoe fits than hell it fits…sorry for immediatly denying you btw i dont think before i speak

What’s your point?
[/quote]

that you were right and i apologize for putting you off

ovalpline · March 31, 2007, 9:21pm

[quote]solidgk wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
just follow what the D man says…this is a thread for his diet not this Alessi character

This diet was set up for Alessi by Poliquin, who is close friends with “D man,” so it’s very relevant.

[/quote]

I know that you want to give the AD a try and are wisely doing “extracurricular research” on the subject, but as I see it, you are complicating the issue for yourself.

The diet than Poliquin gave to Alessi is a diet that Poliquin gave to ALESSI. Sure it’s relevant that Poliquin is friends with Dr. D, but if you want to follow the AD and not feel stressed and confused over derivatives of the AD, just do the AD diet as stated.

Yes, you have a lot of work to do and it’s not an ideal time… and it’s true there may not be an ideal time. Just pick a time that is the least shitty. If that entails waiting a couple weeks, months even, then it’s worth it.

Nobody can promise that you won’t feel shitty during your transition to a fat metabolism. We also can’t make you feel better should it happen.

The question becomes: do I want to subject myself to a major metabolic change right now that may result in making me feel like shit during this very important academic time?..or should I wait until I have fewer external stressors?

I think I just made your decision for you. Go now… do well on your tests, focus your energy on academics, and when you have fewer responsibilities, check in again.

The thread won’t disappear. I promise you that.

AlphaDragon · April 1, 2007, 12:55am