My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
4562

[quote]Bizmark wrote:
How much do you guys believe that the so called “muscle loss” of a ckd is just the muscles looking flat from loss of glycogen along with the lack of energy from not being totally adapted to fat? Because about 2-3 days after carbloading I look and feel fucking jacked. If you want I can post a link to my myspace page that has a couple girls saying so ;-).

But I seriously think that there is no muscle loss from ketosis, its just the lack of carbs that gives the “illusion” of muscle loss topped off with the lethargy of not being totally fat adapted.

I had been thinking alot about this lately when I read thibs post saying that he lost muscle when he dropped to 50g carbs pre contest… I for one have never lost muscle, and from what ppl are saying I’ve gained it. Also, I went from 200lbs to 220lbs at 6’5" in the last 3 months, and my upper abs are still good. Plus my legs have shot up in strength and so has my back…
[/quote]

I would like to have known how low he dropped his calories. I’ve done many low-carb diets over the years (including the extreme V-Diet) and never lost muscle. ONe attraction of low carb diets is the lack of muscle loss.

Also, low carbs is not for everyone. Some guys might lose muscle on such diets. Just because something works for you or me doesn’t mean it works for otehrs.

4563

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
Yo law, the “shift” is not made instantly. You will be "shifted in about 2 months time. It will happen gradually over the course of several CHO cycles. You will only realize it when you don’t realize it at all. One day you will just be on the mat and full of kung fu power and not hit any sugar crashes. Then you will be like “ahhhh-ha”-chris[/quote]

LOL. Having mad sugar cravings today. Made worse after my workout. Muscles want carbs baaaaaaaaad. Are you sure it’s a 12 day start-up and not 5? :wink:

4564

[quote]Bizmark wrote:
How much do you guys believe that the so called “muscle loss” of a ckd is just the muscles looking flat from loss of glycogen along with the lack of energy from not being totally adapted to fat? Because about 2-3 days after carbloading I look and feel fucking jacked. If you want I can post a link to my myspace page that has a couple girls saying so ;-).

But I seriously think that there is no muscle loss from ketosis, its just the lack of carbs that gives the “illusion” of muscle loss topped off with the lethargy of not being totally fat adapted.

I had been thinking alot about this lately when I read thibs post saying that he lost muscle when he dropped to 50g carbs pre contest… I for one have never lost muscle, and from what ppl are saying I’ve gained it. Also, I went from 200lbs to 220lbs at 6’5" in the last 3 months, and my upper abs are still good. Plus my legs have shot up in strength and so has my back…

I think its just that ppl don’t give it a chance. I’m not going to lie, I have had doubt after doubt about eating this way, but when in comes down to it, I LOVE WHOLE EGGS AND BUTTER. So what can I do? lol[/quote]

quite impressive dude…wish i could say the same but ive always messed up with diets and ive never gotten 10% BF id love to but ionno im either too low calories or whatever…buti think i got it this time…keep it goin

4565

Hey Bismark-

That is so kind of you…I probably deserved it after being so dramatic before. This time I was just serious though. I only got this now because I spent 8 days in the hospital. Some terrible viruses are going through Germany right now and I had the luck to catch one.

I totally believe you that the AD is a solid diet. Maybe someday in the future when I’m healthier to start with I may try again. I think probably my immune system was lowered a little by the AD stuff I was doing, although probably more the problem was just the prolonged calorie restriction I’ve been on…staying at 10% or below BF for so long. So yeah, I don’t know.

It was certainly a sobering experience. I’m really set on trying to just become HEALTHY even though it’s going to really be hard to accept all the fat gain. But I’m damn weak now after 3 weeks of being in bed…dropped almost 15 lbs putting me at only 106 or so at 5’7’'. I have a long way to go to get better. And I can’t even walk around much less workout, so a lot of the gain is going to be fat. Well, that and the fact that my stomach can only handle white bread and bananas and extremely easily digested things right now.

But anyway, thank you again for your response. I wish you all the best.

[quote]Bizmark wrote:
Sara1, I’d like to formally apologize to u for what i said. It was uncalled for and rude and I feel bad about it. Im still adapting to this diet myself and ive been getting really angry at little things that normally dont make me angry, and then i dream of killing ppl… which doesnt help. I know none of that is an excuse for being so rude…

But yeah, I’m sorry for what I said. I took what you said out of context, thinking you were dramatasizing it when you really are extremely sick. Again I’m sorry. Please accept my apology and rest up so that you can consider giving the AD another shot, it really is a fun way of eating.

Oh and if your having digestion troubles papaya might help. Get well soon!

-Biz[/quote]

4566

[quote]sarah1 wrote:
Hey Bismark-

That is so kind of you…I probably deserved it after being so dramatic before. This time I was just serious though. I only got this now because I spent 8 days in the hospital. Some terrible viruses are going through Germany right now and I had the luck to catch one.

I totally believe you that the AD is a solid diet. Maybe someday in the future when I’m healthier to start with I may try again. I think probably my immune system was lowered a little by the AD stuff I was doing, although probably more the problem was just the prolonged calorie restriction I’ve been on…staying at 10% or below BF for so long. So yeah, I don’t know.

It was certainly a sobering experience. I’m really set on trying to just become HEALTHY even though it’s going to really be hard to accept all the fat gain. But I’m damn weak now after 3 weeks of being in bed…dropped almost 15 lbs putting me at only 106 or so at 5’7’'. I have a long way to go to get better. And I can’t even walk around much less workout, so a lot of the gain is going to be fat. Well, that and the fact that my stomach can only handle white bread and bananas and extremely easily digested things right now.

But anyway, thank you again for your response. I wish you all the best.
[/quote]

Poor girl. I certainly wish you the best in your recovery.

I can relate to falling prey to the stress that comes with a big move. In my case, I had been over-reaching (precursor to overtraining) for a good 6 weeks (4-5 full-body workouts/week with moderate volume and HIIT) and was starting to feel run-down before I came to South America.

Since arriving, I’ve been a little off… a little not myself: tired, apathetic, and a little depressed. My workouts here have been sucky, to say the least. And I’m physically sick from this past backpacking experience.

There are just so many variables that we all have to keep in mind when plotting our training and goals. Caloric intake, hours at work/school, sleep, exercise program design (volume, intensity, duration of workouts), interpersonal relationships… everything is a stressor. And as Mike Boyle discussed in yesterday’s article, stress isn’t inherently BAD, it can also simply be the total sum of forces acting upon us.

In light of recognizing that I need to scale back, I’m taking at least a full week off (and depending on how I feel, I may extend this break to two weeks) from high-intensity activity. I’ve done some extensive reading the past couple days (sitting, reading, and watching TV is about all I can do) and have decided to take my recovery very slowly.

The prescription? Three full-body workouts a week consisting of 1/3 the normal volume, limiting failure training to small muscle groups, and only low-intensity cardio for 20-30 minutes. In total, each workout will be 45-50 minutes and most definitely non-CNS intensive. This plan will continue more or less unchanged for an indefinite period of time (read: when I feel well again).

If anybody else has any ideas, experiences, insights and/or tips involving recovery, please share it. I’m hurting here.

Again, Sarah, I wish you a speedy recovery and infinite wisdom from this experience.

4567

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
sarah1 wrote:
Hey Bismark-

That is so kind of you…I probably deserved it after being so dramatic before. This time I was just serious though. I only got this now because I spent 8 days in the hospital. Some terrible viruses are going through Germany right now and I had the luck to catch one.

I totally believe you that the AD is a solid diet. Maybe someday in the future when I’m healthier to start with I may try again. I think probably my immune system was lowered a little by the AD stuff I was doing, although probably more the problem was just the prolonged calorie restriction I’ve been on…staying at 10% or below BF for so long. So yeah, I don’t know.

It was certainly a sobering experience. I’m really set on trying to just become HEALTHY even though it’s going to really be hard to accept all the fat gain. But I’m damn weak now after 3 weeks of being in bed…dropped almost 15 lbs putting me at only 106 or so at 5’7’'. I have a long way to go to get better. And I can’t even walk around much less workout, so a lot of the gain is going to be fat. Well, that and the fact that my stomach can only handle white bread and bananas and extremely easily digested things right now.

But anyway, thank you again for your response. I wish you all the best.

Poor girl. I certainly wish you the best in your recovery.

I can relate to falling prey to the stress that comes with a big move. In my case, I had been over-reaching (precursor to overtraining) for a good 6 weeks (4-5 full-body workouts/week with moderate volume and HIIT) and was starting to feel run-down before I came to South America.

Since arriving, I’ve been a little off… a little not myself: tired, apathetic, and a little depressed. My workouts here have been sucky, to say the least. And I’m physically sick from this past backpacking experience.

There are just so many variables that we all have to keep in mind when plotting our training and goals. Caloric intake, hours at work/school, sleep, exercise program design (volume, intensity, duration of workouts), interpersonal relationships… everything is a stressor. And as Mike Boyle discussed in yesterday’s article, stress isn’t inherently BAD, it can also simply be the total sum of forces acting upon us.

In light of recognizing that I need to scale back, I’m taking at least a full week off (and depending on how I feel, I may extend this break to two weeks) from high-intensity activity. I’ve done some extensive reading the past couple days (sitting, reading, and watching TV is about all I can do) and have decided to take my recovery very slowly.

The prescription? Three full-body workouts a week consisting of 1/3 the normal volume, limiting failure training to small muscle groups, and only low-intensity cardio for 20-30 minutes. In total, each workout will be 45-50 minutes and most definitely non-CNS intensive. This plan will continue more or less unchanged for an indefinite period of time (read: when I feel well again).

If anybody else has any ideas, experiences, insights and/or tips involving recovery, please share it. I’m hurting here.

Again, Sarah, I wish you a speedy recovery and infinite wisdom from this experience.[/quote]

u urself are a very updated guy …i will jusy share my ideas which i apply when iam burn out due to my shows and crazy travelling . i just stop training for a week . in tht week i just even dont talk and think of training . if there is some emotional stress i just try to reach to the cause of it if i cant i just let go spend time all alone read watch movies.
some meditation, breathing techniquies and i get involved in deep tissue massages also tht really relaxes me . inshort pamp[er myself as much as i can . maybe it was a signal from the body it needs a little break in ur case .

4568

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
Bizmark wrote:
How much do you guys believe that the so called “muscle loss” of a ckd is just the muscles looking flat from loss of glycogen along with the lack of energy from not being totally adapted to fat? Because about 2-3 days after carbloading I look and feel fucking jacked. If you want I can post a link to my myspace page that has a couple girls saying so ;-).

But I seriously think that there is no muscle loss from ketosis, its just the lack of carbs that gives the “illusion” of muscle loss topped off with the lethargy of not being totally fat adapted.

I had been thinking alot about this lately when I read thibs post saying that he lost muscle when he dropped to 50g carbs pre contest… I for one have never lost muscle, and from what ppl are saying I’ve gained it. Also, I went from 200lbs to 220lbs at 6’5" in the last 3 months, and my upper abs are still good. Plus my legs have shot up in strength and so has my back…

I think its just that ppl don’t give it a chance. I’m not going to lie, I have had doubt after doubt about eating this way, but when in comes down to it, I LOVE WHOLE EGGS AND BUTTER. So what can I do? lol

quite impressive dude…wish i could say the same but ive always messed up with diets and ive never gotten 10% BF id love to but ionno im either too low calories or whatever…buti think i got it this time…keep it goin [/quote]

i totally agree with u …now and then it has proved in many studies tht a high fat diet is allways protien sparing. and u r right because of glycogen depletion we get a illusion as if we have lost musceles.
in coach cts case we all know bodybuilders do lose some amount of musceles in contest preparation for sure even the cutlers and colemans go through tht.
if we just eat protien then yes we train the body to burn muscles. here on this diet we are just adjusting the energy pathway from carbs to fats . infact on a carb diet the body uses muscles on the high fat diet once adapted the body even if we eat some what less fat will still use our body fat as energy . body dosent have a big store depot of carbs as it does have for fats right . and we all know that there are many people in this world who have ripped to bone on this diet without any loss of major energy. some loss of energy, strenght and also muscles is bound to happen if we are going for some contest because we overall eat less and on top of that there so much of cardio also involved a nd we are almost in a catabolic state . its just not our diet there are so many other factors which give us muscle loss.

4569

Hey, as I mentioned Iv’e just started the diet and am on day 6. Workouts this week have been good, and I have felt gr8 all week. Definately different, my mood, energy etc I looking at mainly body comp change at the moment taking in around 3200 cals on the start up phase, and I am 6,1 ft, 210 lbs, around 15%.

I just read am article on the T Dawg diet and am wondering whether they are right about the importance of post workout nutrition. Anyone have a take on this aspect?? It has been a concern during the week, but I figured its going well so…Also, why the hell do they recommend such a low protein intake on the T Dawg diet? I myself have always taken around 300 grams a day hence the “High Protein, High Fat”

Thanx

4570

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Hey, as I mentioned Iv’e just started the diet and am on day 6. Workouts this week have been good, and I have felt gr8 all week. Definately different, my mood, energy etc I looking at mainly body comp change at the moment taking in around 3200 cals on the start up phase, and I am 6,1 ft, 210 lbs, around 15%.

I just read am article on the T Dawg diet and am wondering whether they are right about the importance of post workout nutrition. Anyone have a take on this aspect?? It has been a concern during the week, but I figured its going well so…Also, why the hell do they recommend such a low protein intake on the T Dawg diet? I myself have always taken around 300 grams a day hence the “High Protein, High Fat”

Thanx[/quote]

Well, one take on post workout nutrition is that eating P+F after working out ups your growth hormone, and that helps in losing fat and gaining muscle. This is what faigin says in the NHE. Also DiPasquale recommends it in the AS for BB’ers. Says it only works when fat adapted tho.

Also, read this:
Low Carb Roundtable Part 1
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1138762

Low Carb Rountable Part 2
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1141913

They answer alot of questions about protein intake and a CKD in those articles. There are also several big names discussing ketosis and such in those articles, like poliquin.

4571

Ok, So far I have been eating 7 meals a day. 2 of which been shakes, 1 post workout, casien before bed. In my post workout shake, its just WPI and some carbs 15g’s NO fats. I wasnt aware that I needed fats here. Should I add some flax?

thanks

4572

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
Poor girl. I certainly wish you the best in your recovery.

I can relate to falling prey to the stress that comes with a big move. In my case, I had been over-reaching (precursor to overtraining) for a good 6 weeks (4-5 full-body workouts/week with moderate volume and HIIT) and was starting to feel run-down before I came to South America.

Since arriving, I’ve been a little off… a little not myself: tired, apathetic, and a little depressed. My workouts here have been sucky, to say the least. And I’m physically sick from this past backpacking experience.

There are just so many variables that we all have to keep in mind when plotting our training and goals. Caloric intake, hours at work/school, sleep, exercise program design (volume, intensity, duration of workouts), interpersonal relationships… everything is a stressor. And as Mike Boyle discussed in yesterday’s article, stress isn’t inherently BAD, it can also simply be the total sum of forces acting upon us.

In light of recognizing that I need to scale back, I’m taking at least a full week off (and depending on how I feel, I may extend this break to two weeks) from high-intensity activity. I’ve done some extensive reading the past couple days (sitting, reading, and watching TV is about all I can do) and have decided to take my recovery very slowly.

The prescription? Three full-body workouts a week consisting of 1/3 the normal volume, limiting failure training to small muscle groups, and only low-intensity cardio for 20-30 minutes. In total, each workout will be 45-50 minutes and most definitely non-CNS intensive. This plan will continue more or less unchanged for an indefinite period of time (read: when I feel well again).

If anybody else has any ideas, experiences, insights and/or tips involving recovery, please share it. I’m hurting here.

Again, Sarah, I wish you a speedy recovery and infinite wisdom from this experience.[/quote]

Good luck Ovalpine…sounds like we are in a similar boat at the moment. Two californian college students sick in foreign countries needing to recover! :slight_smile:

Your plan sounds really reasonable…I’m also just trying to go by how my body feels. I’m still too weak to even consider any workouts, but I’m hoping that within a week or two I will feel up to it, and like you I was planning on something simple like one of Chad’s 3 day a week total body programs. Start really light and just slowly slowyly up things.

I wish you the best in everything.

S

4573

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Ok, So far I have been eating 7 meals a day. 2 of which been shakes, 1 post workout, casien before bed. In my post workout shake, its just WPI and some carbs 15g’s NO fats. I wasnt aware that I needed fats here. Should I add some flax?

thanks[/quote]

Remember, your best bet, especially on this induction phase, is to simply focus on the recommended foods as per Dr. D. Any dead animal (every time Chris writes this I am laughing hysterically), cheese, walnuts, sunflower seeds, extra virgin olive oil, non-starchy veggies, eggs… and I’m going to add avocado to that list.

With that recommended list, you should be absolutely fine on protein and fat quotas. However, if you do want to add protein supplements PW or pre-bedtime, that’s fine.

One thing that jumps out at me though is your inclusion of carbs in your PW drink. While the AD is all for experimentation, it is too early for you to be experimenting with PW carbs. You need to focus on fat adaptation, meaning nixing all carbs and really bumping up the fats. Once you’ve been eating AD style (by the book AD-style, that is) for several, SEVERAL months, then experimentation would be more appropriate.

Personally I don’t supplement with protein powders at all during the low-carb phase (I do take surge during the carb-ups provided I workout). However, if a PW shake is your preference, I would recommend a shake consisting of a blend of whey and casein mixed with heavy cream and/or extra virgin olive oil (I know Raviraj is a big fan of this mix).

Godspeed.

4574

[quote]raviraj wrote:
u urself are a very updated guy …i will jusy share my ideas which i apply when iam burn out due to my shows and crazy travelling . i just stop training for a week . in tht week i just even dont talk and think of training . if there is some emotional stress i just try to reach to the cause of it if i cant i just let go spend time all alone read watch movies.
some meditation, breathing techniquies and i get involved in deep tissue massages also tht really relaxes me . inshort pamp[er myself as much as i can . maybe it was a signal from the body it needs a little break in ur case .[/quote]

I appreciate the advice. This was essentially along the lines of what I was thinking: sit back with my feet up and just allow the body and the mind to relax and recenter themselves.

I definitely needed the break. I push myself hard everyday and haven’t taken time off from the gym in years. It was inevitable that I would reach this point. And now that I’ve been getting some downtime, I’m seeing things a little more clearly.

Since I haven’t exercised at all this week, apart from about 30-45 minutes of light walking through the city everyday, I’m going to skip my usual carb-up. That is, at least for today.

I have noticed that throughout the week I have lost some fullness, which indicates to me that I’ve been using the glycogen for SOMETHING (hopefully extra cals for recovery?).

Anyway, I may do a one-day carb-up tomorrow. I know I’ve seen posts from the past few weeks regarding this very conundrum (not exercising and unsure whether or not to carb-up). If anybody has any insights and experiences, let me know.

-Stu

4575

[quote]imcleish wrote:
Hi guys,
I’m new to the AD and am currently at Day #5. I’ve got a question, and didn’t really see it directly answered through the first 40 pages so I’ll just ask it. I apologize if it’s already been addressed.

With the 30 grams of carbs we’re allowed in a day, would it make sense to take 12 grams of dextrose Post workout? I ask this because I read on another board (different site) where some were advocating this.

Now, isn’t the reason BBs take Dex post workout to replace lost glycogen; and isn’t one of the points to the AD to exhaust all your glycogen levels? Can someone clear this up for me please? Thanks alot…[/quote]

Poliquin trains his atheletes low carb but also uses plenty of fast sugars for post workout. when I trained lowcarb I took up to 140g dextrose/maltodextrin post workout but only 30g additional carbs from non starch polysaccarides (broccholi, brussels etc)…It didn’t affect my fat adaptation.

4576

Im on day 7 now, and will be training tom. I think I mite introduce some more carbs, post workout only, which means 4 times a week. Maybe around 40g’s, so a total of 70g on workout days. Will this mess with my fat adaptation?

4577

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
raviraj wrote:
u urself are a very updated guy …i will jusy share my ideas which i apply when iam burn out due to my shows and crazy travelling . i just stop training for a week . in tht week i just even dont talk and think of training . if there is some emotional stress i just try to reach to the cause of it if i cant i just let go spend time all alone read watch movies.
some meditation, breathing techniquies and i get involved in deep tissue massages also tht really relaxes me . inshort pamp[er myself as much as i can . maybe it was a signal from the body it needs a little break in ur case .

I appreciate the advice. This was essentially along the lines of what I was thinking: sit back with my feet up and just allow the body and the mind to relax and recenter themselves.

I definitely needed the break. I push myself hard everyday and haven’t taken time off from the gym in years. It was inevitable that I would reach this point. And now that I’ve been getting some downtime, I’m seeing things a little more clearly.

Since I haven’t exercised at all this week, apart from about 30-45 minutes of light walking through the city everyday, I’m going to skip my usual carb-up. That is, at least for today.

I have noticed that throughout the week I have lost some fullness, which indicates to me that I’ve been using the glycogen for SOMETHING (hopefully extra cals for recovery?).

Anyway, I may do a one-day carb-up tomorrow. I know I’ve seen posts from the past few weeks regarding this very conundrum (not exercising and unsure whether or not to carb-up). If anybody has any insights and experiences, let me know.

-Stu
[/quote]

Ovalpine, perhaps try just a half day carbload or something like that. Maybe just do regular AD until dinner time and then take in 100g-200g or so of carbs split over a couple meals. I’m sure that wouldn’t hurt, plus itll atleast help in part with refilling your glycogen. Even tho you didn’t do much exercising I’m sure your glycogen levels must still be low.

I can only tell you what I would do in that situation, and I would probably do just a half day load…

4578

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Im on day 7 now, and will be training tom. I think I mite introduce some more carbs, post workout only, which means 4 times a week. Maybe around 40g’s, so a total of 70g on workout days. Will this mess with my fat adaptation? [/quote]

Probably… dunno tho. Someone with more experience will need to answer. All I can say is just follow what people have been telling you. If you’ve been told to stick with the basic diet for the first several months… then stick with the basic diet.

4579

Yeh ok, will do. Keep it at 30g’s. Dont really wanna mess with things too much at this stage. First week into it went well in terms of training so…5 more days till my first carb up. p.s havn’t crashed yet either, but quite a bit more time to go really.

Thanks for the advice, will keep u posted on progress

4580

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Hey, as I mentioned Iv’e just started the diet and am on day 6. Workouts this week have been good, and I have felt gr8 all week. Definately different, my mood, energy etc I looking at mainly body comp change at the moment taking in around 3200 cals on the start up phase, and I am 6,1 ft, 210 lbs, around 15%.

I just read am article on the T Dawg diet and am wondering whether they are right about the importance of post workout nutrition. Anyone have a take on this aspect?? It has been a concern during the week, but I figured its going well so…Also, why the hell do they recommend such a low protein intake on the T Dawg diet? I myself have always taken around 300 grams a day hence the “High Protein, High Fat”

Thanx[/quote]

on a high fat diet like ours protien intake must be exact as ur body needs means according to the lean body mass u have .
infact remember the whole crux of this diet is to keep the glucose levels down. so ur body uses fat as energy iam sure u are aware of it right.
protien after carbs are 58percent capable of turning into glucose. so when u eat very high protien on a high fat diet it goes against u as any extra protien will be converted into glucose. and again this type of diet is protien sparing so we dont need really heavy amounts of it.

4581

[quote]Gymjunkie wrote:
Im on day 7 now, and will be training tom. I think I mite introduce some more carbs, post workout only, which means 4 times a week. Maybe around 40g’s, so a total of 70g on workout days. Will this mess with my fat adaptation? [/quote]

see u are just in the start phase right like every one here i will also tell u pls atleast let the 14 days go . now what happens here if u introduce carbs after ur training is that …u are reffeling ur glygogen levels and top of that u will again do a carbup …a little too much till u are not fully adapted.
again if are already very low in body fat levels u can try that but still wait for the induction and then do it.