My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
4542

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
2 kilos for a dollar? man…

fuk you OP. I’m here in the cold ass north letting people touch me inappropriately to get 1 pound for 4 dollars and you… you… ass.

Oh well I suppose you’re having trouble finding dead animals so in the end it breaks even. How are the prices for other shit down there? Highly economical or no? coffee? I know about the wine, cheap and brutally awesome. Have you been to the mountains yet?

-chris[/quote]

In Chile, some things are highly economical, and others not. How much more vague can I get?

Well, food is an interesting subject. Red meat is more or less the price as it is in the U.S… fish is dirt cheap, chicken is about 2/3 the price as in the U.S., and turkey is dirt cheap. It all depends on what Chile produces nationally vs what it imports.

Funny that you bring up coffee. In Chile, coffee is of the instant Nescafe variety. If you want fresh coffee, you’ll definitely be paying for it (a little more expensive than in the U.S… and yes, there are Starbucks here, albeit only 8 in all of Santiago… these Starbucks are more expensive than those in the US, but they offer free wi-fi).

That you bring up visiting the mountains is quite a coincidence. I actually just returned from the southern-most civilized tip of the world. I vacationed there for 10 days (although vacation is a bit of a misnomer, more like struggled my ass up mountains in freezing conditions carrying a heavy pack). And since the topic of hiking and catabolic activity has just come up, I can definitely attest to the catabolic nature of long hikes.

First and foremost, recall that we rip through our glycogen stores in roughly 3 intense workout sessions/week. Now consider a torturous backpacking trip. In my case, 2 four day treks with 5-6 hours of hiking each day. And I ate AD-style (fish, olive oil, nuts, avocado, protein powder).

I am absolutely obliterated right now. I feel sick, tired, dazed… you name it. I’m taking this week off from the gym and more or less forced by my body to watch Italian and Spanish league soccer all day (could be worse, eh?).

What am I trying to get at? Hiking is daaaamn catabolic. It’ll easily rip through your glycogen stores in a day if it’s intense enough. I’m convinced that the reason why I feel like I was hit by a bus is because I didn’t adjust my carb-loads to fit the energy demands of my activity (read: I should have had a midweek carb spike when I was literally craving carbs).

Oh, yeah… Chris, god bless the wine.

4543

[quote]TheTank123 wrote:
One more question. I’ve read about 140 pages and don’t remember seeing this answered, so if it was, I apologize. Should you drink a protien shake before bed? Every other diet (T-Dawg, Berardi’s diets etc.) suggest a shake before bed to prevent catabolism at night. However, because of the metabolic shift of the AD, this should be prevented, correct? Therefore, it would make more sense to NOT have a shake before bed because your body SHOULD be burning fat as energy while you are asleep, not breaking down muscle. Is this thinking flawed?[/quote]

Bump for this question

4544

I?ve actually been an avid hiker dating before AD life, recently packing back up with about a year away from it. I?ve been back at it for about 2 months now, just local trails on Saturdays, nothing too long. The trails I?ve been heading up are classified as moderately difficult to strenuous by most of the guide books, meaning I am busting my ass for good 4 hours, of course with few planned rests along the way. I?ve been snacking frequently throughout the hike, forcing myself to stop more often then needed just to squeeze in some AD fuel to minimize catabolism as much as I can.

My experience is that it works very well with CHO load. So I?ll eat low carb all through the hike, then I begin my load immediately after the hike. This has worked well for me so far, it is definitely a great fat burning activity, although it is not intension of the hike. Mostly, I enjoy it and it will always be a part of my life. Thus in attempt to find a solution that will ensure minimum catabolic activity as I possibly can, following is my inquiry with CT and his response:

Coach Thib,
I really enjoy getting out and hiking once a week, usually on Saturdays, around my favorite local trail. Trail is classified by most of the guides as ‘moderately difficult to strenuous’, meaning I put in work for good 4 hours, working up a storm of sweat and I am wiped out when finished.

During the hike, i am pretty sure that i enter catabolic state and the thought of muscle wasting scares the crap out of me. So i’ve been frequently snacking as i hike, trying to minimize the catabolic activity. To give you some back ground, I am eating AD style, training 4 days per week and hiking is the only form of cardio. Regardless of my goal, would 4 hours of intense heart pumping hiking (granted there are few planned resting within the duration) inevitably drive me into catabolic state, even with frequent feeding of fuel before, during, and after the activity?

CT responded:

When on an AD diet, an activity can quickly become catabolic. Hiking is no exception especially if done for 4 hours. However I think that it’s a good activity, it will help you lose fat and is great for psychological recovery.

Snaking is definetely recommended but your best bet would be to take small doses of BCAA (5g), glutamine (5g) and whey isolate protein (10-15g) every 45-60 minutes.

4545

On hiking and other endurance activity:

Not only are hardcore lifters using a fat adapted lifestyle but other types of athletes too. One group have been using fat adaptation for a long while, cross-country skiers. And not just any cross country skiers, the “ski from the Behring straight to the Hudson bay” type of guys. these fellows live fat adapted for several reasons:

  1. more cals per g of food. (8-9 vs 4-5) makes for less weight in food.

  2. Fat adaptation ensures constant energy in the form of bodyfat to fill in between snacks.

  3. snacks are typically slow digesting constant energy release.

  4. prevents insulin spike which prevents CHO crashing.

These dudes ski ski ski all day long. their key is that they bring several fatty little snacks. examples include balls of butter with bacon in them and also cheese, havarti obviously.

You too should be ale to use your fat adaptation to your advantage. Just bring along some intense fatty snacks like cheese and pepperoni (need the salt). If you sit there feeding yourself fat you should be able to avoid the glycotic pathways and use your “primary” energy pathways (fat meta ones).

This also includes trail blazing and not just slow endurance work. Fat metabolism for endurance work, just be sure to eat High cals. Also rock nuts, cashews specifically, for the energy density necessary for 10 hour days going up.

Also, water. If you aren’t pissing you are probly dehydrated when hikeing.

-chris

4546

I’m hearing a lot of really disparate information about the AD and endurance exercise. I know that DiPasquale in the book made a few references to increased endurance capacity on a fat adapted diet.

Oval, on the other hand, seems to be suggesting that his fat adapted body did not handle long hikes well. As someone who engages in a lot of endurance activities (biking, running, hiking, swimming) I’m starting to wonder if this diet is for me.

I’ve read articles about Yukon skiers who eat sticks of butter while on the trail (like nattyPB wrote), which is why I never really thought of low-carb as anti-endurance before now. CT’s thoughts trouble me.

Can anyone else weigh in on whether or not someone who’s interested in endurance activity as well as strength training can do well on this diet?

4547

I haven’t seen pesto mentioned yet. I’ve always loved this stuff but had to limit it when eating carbs. Last night I cooked a couple of chicken breasts in the cast iron skillet, added about 2 tablespoons of pesto (trust me, a little pesto goes a long way), and some funky Italian cheese. Yum. All for only 2 grams of carbs.

I’m getting over the “flu.” I thought I had gotten sick on day 3 or 4. It didn’t make much sense that I would have gotten sick, though. NOthing is going around and the weather has been fine. Then I read in the AD that flu-like symptoms are common when starting the diet and switching over. Makes perfect sense.

Also, guys I’ve read the AD and the new book. DiP repeatedly (in both books) says 5 days is enough but 12 days is ideal. The guys with experience all have said do 12 days.

4548

[quote]industrialplaid wrote:
I’m hearing a lot of really disparate information about the AD and endurance exercise. I know that DiPasquale in the book made a few references to increased endurance capacity on a fat adapted diet.

Oval, on the other hand, seems to be suggesting that his fat adapted body did not handle long hikes well. As someone who engages in a lot of endurance activities (biking, running, hiking, swimming) I’m starting to wonder if this diet is for me.

I’ve read articles about Yukon skiers who eat sticks of butter while on the trail (like nattyPB wrote), which is why I never really thought of low-carb as anti-endurance before now. CT’s thoughts trouble me.

Can anyone else weigh in on whether or not someone who’s interested in endurance activity as well as strength training can do well on this diet?[/quote]

Are you an Olympic athlete or someone else who cannot afford to take a couple of weeks to experiment with his body? If you are training for the next Olympic games, I understand your concern. Talk to your coached at the Olympic Training Center.

If you’re willing to disregard what dozens of people have said (have you read this thread?) because of what ONE other person has said, neither the AD or any other convention diet is for you. CT knows a lot but is NOT an expert on low-carb diets. Keep drinking your PowerAide and log onto DrPhil.com to find people to hold your hand.

It’s a friggin diet. You are not an Olympian. You can afford to take a gamble. Get a grip.

4549

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Are you an Olympic athlete or someone else who cannot afford to take a couple of weeks to experiment with his body? If you are training for the next Olympic games, I understand your concern. Talk to your coached at the Olympic Training Center.

If you’re willing to disregard what dozens of people have said (have you read this thread?) because of what ONE other person has said, neither the AD or any other convention diet is for you. CT knows a lot but is NOT an expert on low-carb diets. Keep drinking your PowerAide and log onto DrPhil.com to find people to hold your hand.

It’s a friggin diet. You are not an Olympian. You can afford to take a gamble. Get a grip.[/quote]

I’m more than willing to take a few months to experiment with the diet, which is what I’m doing. If you had taken the time to read my post before having a tantrum, you would have seen that I was requesting that other posters add their thoughts on the matter. I’ve read the entire AD thread, and I don’t remember any discussion of endurance exercise ever coming up before now. DiPasquale never discusses it in his book, either.

It’s a funny thing, but when people are willing to “hold eachother’s hands” on this thread and discuss things (diet, workouts, CHO loading, etc.) a lot of good ideas tend to surface. CT’s advice about water intake during the CHO loads proved to be extremely beneficial to me, and it’s something that never would have occurred to me had others on the thread not asked for the advice.

I’d suggest that unless you have some thought provoking commentary, or a question, you might want to chill the fuck out before you hit the “submit” button next time.

4550

Guys guys, simmer down now! But anyway, endurance exercise (if your a sugar burner) requires carbs for you to function well. but when you become fat adapted you dont need the carbs from what i understand. especially for endurance exercise, it just taps into your fat stores.

weightlifting and sprinting on the other hand do require glycogen to do it. and you can get that glycogen through using carbs or through using protein. so hence the carbup, cuz you sure as hell dont want to start using protein.

but endurance exercise is fine when your fat adapted. even after 20 minutes of endurance exercise your body starts using fat anyway doesn’t it? I remember reading a study about endurance athletes who went low carb and they were no good the first month, but then when they adapted their performance was better than before. so im pretty sure that if your doing endurance stuff you dont need to worry about using fat as ur energy.

4551

[quote]TheTank123 wrote:
TheTank123 wrote:
One more question. I’ve read about 140 pages and don’t remember seeing this answered, so if it was, I apologize. Should you drink a protien shake before bed? Every other diet (T-Dawg, Berardi’s diets etc.) suggest a shake before bed to prevent catabolism at night. However, because of the metabolic shift of the AD, this should be prevented, correct? Therefore, it would make more sense to NOT have a shake before bed because your body SHOULD be burning fat as energy while you are asleep, not breaking down muscle. Is this thinking flawed?

Bump for this question[/quote]

…Well this depends upon your goals now doesn’t it?

If you’re simply trying to lose “weight” -then you can skip the pre-bed shake. You’ll burn fat -true. You’ll lose weight.
Of course along with the “weight” you lose you’ll likely be sacrificing some muscle along with it (sooner or later) as well.

If, on the other hand, you’d like to spare as much muscle as possible -and even BUILD your musculature…then a recuperative pre-bed meal along with a sensible progressive resistance program is a great idea!

You’ll be giving your body what it needs to thrive! -not just survive…

peace

4552

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
TheTank123 wrote:
TheTank123 wrote:
One more question. I’ve read about 140 pages and don’t remember seeing this answered, so if it was, I apologize. Should you drink a protien shake before bed? Every other diet (T-Dawg, Berardi’s diets etc.) suggest a shake before bed to prevent catabolism at night. However, because of the metabolic shift of the AD, this should be prevented, correct? Therefore, it would make more sense to NOT have a shake before bed because your body SHOULD be burning fat as energy while you are asleep, not breaking down muscle. Is this thinking flawed?

Bump for this question

…Well this depends upon your goals now doesn’t it?

If you’re simply trying to lose “weight” -then you can skip the pre-bed shake. You’ll burn fat -true. You’ll lose weight.
Of course along with the “weight” you lose you’ll likely be sacrificing some muscle along with it (sooner or later) as well.

If, on the other hand, you’d like to spare as much muscle as possible -and even BUILD your musculature…then a recuperative pre-bed meal along with a sensible progressive resistance program is a great idea!

You’ll be giving your body what it needs to thrive! -not just survive…

peace

[/quote]

whatever ur goal maybe fat loss or mass gain i think a prebed meal is mandatory. remember night time is a time when ur body repairs and a steady flow of protien will allways help …casien will be a fantastic choice along with some flax oil or flax meal or olive oil or even whipping cream can do the job. i find no reason to skip it even if u are aming for fat loss. in my view it will help u more .
i sometimes eat 4eggs and 1scoop of casien protien with table spoons of flax oil.+magnesium+ zinc

4553

though we guys and girls become fat adapted a prebed protien and fat snack is imp we need protien so tht there is supply of amino acides in the repair process infact very imp when u are in for a fat loss
another thing what ovalpline said is true …many of us even dont know if we are gluten and lactose tolerant or not.

one should keenly observe themselves the feelings we get in the body on our carb ups after 9 months i can tell potatoes are better choice for me i never ate oats becvause i simply dont like oats nor i was ever a cereal fan too. fruits other then apple must also be kept to minimum because fruits fill the liver glygogen not the muscle glygogen efficently. lot of studies have shown starch is the best source to fill the muscele glygogen …but most keenly observe as ovalpline did . and adjust accordingly .

4554

I started the AD when all I was doing was lifting, and adapted easily and liked it so much that I kept with it all during soccer season even though i hadnt orignally planned on it. I think AD is great for endurance, there’s no “hitting the wall” no depletable energy source, you got tons of energy!

ALSO AGREED eat a prebed shake regradless of goals!!

4555

I found this exerpt from a study posted in another forum. I don’t have a scientific background, so I’m not sure how to look it up and see what the exact results were. I’m interested in it, because it’s the only such study I’ve seen that had a group eat low-carb long enough to have actually adapted to it. Usually they go low carb for 2 or 3 days then burn out.

Enhanced Endurance in Trained Cyclists During Moderate Intensity Exercise Following 2 Weeks Adaptation to a High Fat Diet

Lambert, E.V., Speechly, D.P., Dennis, S.C., et al., “Enhanced Endurance in Trained Cyclists During Moderate Intensity Exercise Following 2 Weeks Adaptation to a High Fat Diet,” European Journal of Applied Physiology and Occupational Physiology, 69(4), 1994, pages 287-293.

This study sought to compare the effects of two weeks of a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet (70% fat, 23% protein and 7% carbohydrate) with two weeks of a high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet (74% carbohydrate, 14% protein and 12% fat) on exercise performance. Five trained cyclists were required to perform a host of cycle tests at various intensities and lengths of time. Based on the results of these tests, exercise time to exhaustion during high intensity exercise was not significantly different between groups. However, when comparing the different diet groups? performance during moderate intensity exercise, time to exhaustion was significantly longer after subjects followed the high-fat diet, despite starting off with lower muscle glycogen content (stored glucose). Subjects in the high-fat group also had a lower respiratory quotient, indicating that they were burning fat for fuel in place of carbohydrate.

4556

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Yesterday (day 4) I woke up feeling like I had the flu. Felt like crap today, too. Anyone else go through this? Is this a sign I’ve made the “shift”?

Also, where does the 12 days number come from? I’ve read the AD book and don’t see it mentioned in there.[/quote]

Sounds like the symptoms as well as it’s in the timeframe…

4557

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Yesterday (day 4) I woke up feeling like I had the flu. Felt like crap today, too. Anyone else go through this? Is this a sign I’ve made the “shift”?

Also, where does the 12 days number come from? I’ve read the AD book and don’t see it mentioned in there.

Sounds like the symptoms as well as it’s in the timeframe…
[/quote]

Getting over it today (day 6). Have a low-carb cheesecake in the oven… Never heard of almond flour before - cool stuff.

4558

why is that when I switch to a low carb diet, cyclical, etc. My sex drive diminishes. Despite all the high fat, and proper adaptation.

4559

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Yesterday (day 4) I woke up feeling like I had the flu. Felt like crap today, too. Anyone else go through this? Is this a sign I’ve made the “shift”?

Also, where does the 12 days number come from? I’ve read the AD book and don’t see it mentioned in there.

Sounds like the symptoms as well as it’s in the timeframe…
[/quote]

Yo law, the “shift” is not made instantly. You will be "shifted in about 2 months time. It will happen gradually over the course of several CHO cycles. You will only realize it when you don’t realize it at all. One day you will just be on the mat and full of kung fu power and not hit any sugar crashes. Then you will be like “ahhhh-ha”

-chris

4560

Im on day 5 now, and feel better and more energetic on this diet than with higher carbs! Dunno if and when I will crash, as I mentioned I have reduced my carbs over the last few weeks so…I mite carb up this weekend instead of waiting 7 more days. Also, im taking multi, guna start creatine, WPI after training. Would anyone recommend I take BCAA’s? or is it a waist on this diet seen as its more “Anabolic”

thanks

4561

How much do you guys believe that the so called “muscle loss” of a ckd is just the muscles looking flat from loss of glycogen along with the lack of energy from not being totally adapted to fat? Because about 2-3 days after carbloading I look and feel fucking jacked. If you want I can post a link to my myspace page that has a couple girls saying so ;-).

But I seriously think that there is no muscle loss from ketosis, its just the lack of carbs that gives the “illusion” of muscle loss topped off with the lethargy of not being totally fat adapted.

I had been thinking alot about this lately when I read thibs post saying that he lost muscle when he dropped to 50g carbs pre contest… I for one have never lost muscle, and from what ppl are saying I’ve gained it. Also, I went from 200lbs to 220lbs at 6’5" in the last 3 months, and my upper abs are still good. Plus my legs have shot up in strength and so has my back…

I think its just that ppl don’t give it a chance. I’m not going to lie, I have had doubt after doubt about eating this way, but when in comes down to it, I LOVE WHOLE EGGS AND BUTTER. So what can I do? lol