My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
4062

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
k so i need to lose 3-4lbs min. preferably 5-6lbs(2-3 of the weight is water) so i can get down some weight and be comfortable in my weight class for wrestling…its my first year and im goin to a high end tourny and i wanna know what my minimum carb load should be on a wake up (begin) to sleep (end) carb load…i like to keep them a day to keep from gaining weight.

and im also dropping my cals from 2500 to 2200 some days 2000 one day and 2300 some days during the week and im gonna throw in a weight session on my day off from practice…thinks thats all good or maybe add in some cardio too…and im in this AD for just about 5 months and ive cut decently but ive never tried to lose weight that much and never watched my cals so im inexperienced in this fashion.[/quote]

The man you really need is Chris (Realpeanutbutter, if you want to PM him), but I wrestled some in high school, too, so I have a general idea of the torture you go through. What is your current practice schedule like? 4 days at 2 hours each with occasional morning cardio/track sessions? How much do you weigh as is? Fact of the matter is if you are exercising with the intensity of a wrestling practice as frequenty as I imagine you are, you will probably only need a few tweaks to your diet.

Dropping calories are obviously a must, but obviously you need to maintain intensity. If you don’t feel overly hungry, go ahead and drop your cals to 2200 or 2000. Buuuut, I think it’s really going to be your carb-load that is crucial, as it will provide the bulk of your fuel for your wrestling workouts. I would HIGHLY suggest extending your carb-load to 36 hours, but tightening it up. I’m a big believer in picking your energy source, fat or carbs but not both, in order to minimize a lipogenic insulin response.

Sooo, that means you should flip the ratios around for your carb loads, instead of your normal 60% fat, 40% protein with negligible carbs, you should look for 60% carbs, 40% protein with negligible fat. I understand this is virtually impossible because almost everything has trace levels of fat, yada yada yada, BUT I am crafty :). Let me detail my typical carb loads for you: 1-1.5 grams protein/lb, 3 grams cho/lb per 24 hour period… these loads usually take about 36 hours for me before I feel myself hold subcutaneous water.

My food choices are simple: egg whites, George Foreman’d skinless chicken breast, tuna, , apples, grapefruit, oranges, bananas, sweet potatoes/yams (cook beautifully in the microwave), and brown rice (boiled, make sure to do it no longer than 8-10 minutes or you will jack up the GI). Remember when I said that I’m crafty?

Take a look at this meal:
1-2 apples, 6 egg whites: NO fat, 36 g of the best protein there is, about 20 oz of sweet potato/yam or 2 cups of brown rice for approximately 100 g cho and 2, yes 2, grams of fat. I’m a little dogmatic in this way, and I eat the food in the exact order listed, but I’m leaner and stronger week-in, week-out and have been able to avoid fat regain from the carb-loads. Incidentally, it’s my opinion that I may even be burning a bit of BF during the weekends.

Enough of my asides, what I’m suggesting to you is keeping absolute track of your cals. Weekdays: 2000-2200 (depending on your weight and if you can get away with it), weekends: minimizing the fat in your loads will keep cals down and will still maximize your leptin reset and glycogen supercompensation. Godspeed and clue me in as to your vitals.

4063

[quote]aspengc8 wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
aspengc8 wrote:
Pauli D wrote:

Today was the first day, following it by the book in his ‘bodybuilding’s next frontier’ article. I completed ABBH I + II, WM and AOW.

BW x 25 for cals… damnnnn! I love to eat, and It’s hard enough cramming 3600 down. I guess Im really just a double bacon cheeseburger away from 5k :)[/quote]

…Continue to follow it “by the book” -as you say.

I find it beneficial to increase my morning (1st meal) fat consumption as the week progresses to keep energy and recovery at it’s best.
So for instance after a weekend carb-load my am shake might be 2 serv Metabolic Drive w/ 2 tbsp milled flax. A day (or two) later I might add 1 tbsp EVOO…then another …then another.

So by the end of the training week my ‘breakfast’ would be 2 serv Metabolic Drive, 2 tbsp milled flax and three or four tbsp EVOO.

You may wonder why all the shakes??Again, this is based on 8 training sessions a week. And given that the am session begins about 5am…you can see the reasoning behind it.

You can also see how the cals can accumulate as well. BW X 25 doesn’t sound so ‘out-of-reach’ now -does it?

Of course this sets up an interesting carb-load situation as well. By the end of the training week my cals & fat consumption are at their highest.

All I need do is nix the fat to nill and introduce a wee bit of carbs and my metabolism starts ripping through bodyfat for energy and storing carbs as glycogen in the muscle bellies.
That’ll get you through the first 12 hrs or so. The last 12-18 hrs can be a more traditional 50c/30f/20p carb load.
This gets you feeling full and (surprisingly) ripped and ready for the next 6 day training cycle.

Keep us posted

peace

4064

[quote]sifuinkorea wrote:
Tirib,

Now that the holidays have cleared, what do your carb ups look like? Or are you not formally carb loading at all?

-SK
[/quote]

Honestly, I didn’t change anything over the holidays. My carb loads currently run from Sat. Morning to Sunday night. I eat lots of oatmeal, apples, bananas, raisins, potatoes, sweet potatoes, beans and also get 8 or 10 grams of creatine a day during the loads. Very clean, no crap. Some veggies too.

I also eat about half the protein as regular days and much much less fat though I do still take fish oil and evoo albeit in reduced quantities. Boiled eggs, milk and chicken for protein primarily. Also whey in the oatmeal.

I have toyed with the idea of going to a Wed./Sat. load plan and may still, but this has been working well. I had unpredictable energy and fatigue for about the first six to eight weeks after which everything smoothed out and I have no issues at all even late in the week.

In my opinion this is the failing of most of those I’ve seen in this thread who don’t do well with it. Just not giving it enough time. I took Disc Hoss’s word on this early on and it has proven absolutely true. Full adaptation takes much longer than the induction phase.

4065

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
k so i need to lose 3-4lbs min. preferably 5-6lbs(2-3 of the weight is water) so i can get down some weight and be comfortable in my weight class for wrestling…its my first year and im goin to a high end tourny and i wanna know what my minimum carb load should be on a wake up (begin) to sleep (end) carb load…i like to keep them a day to keep from gaining weight.

and im also dropping my cals from 2500 to 2200 some days 2000 one day and 2300 some days during the week and im gonna throw in a weight session on my day off from practice…thinks thats all good or maybe add in some cardio too…and im in this AD for just about 5 months and ive cut decently but ive never tried to lose weight that much and never watched my cals so im inexperienced in this fashion.

The man you really need is Chris (Realpeanutbutter, if you want to PM him), but I wrestled some in high school, too, so I have a general idea of the torture you go through. What is your current practice schedule like? 4 days at 2 hours each with occasional morning cardio/track sessions? How much do you weigh as is? Fact of the matter is if you are exercising with the intensity of a wrestling practice as frequenty as I imagine you are, you will probably only need a few tweaks to your diet.

Dropping calories are obviously a must, but obviously you need to maintain intensity. If you don’t feel overly hungry, go ahead and drop your cals to 2200 or 2000. Buuuut, I think it’s really going to be your carb-load that is crucial, as it will provide the bulk of your fuel for your wrestling workouts. I would HIGHLY suggest extending your carb-load to 36 hours, but tightening it up. I’m a big believer in picking your energy source, fat or carbs but not both, in order to minimize a lipogenic insulin response.

Sooo, that means you should flip the ratios around for your carb loads, instead of your normal 60% fat, 40% protein with negligible carbs, you should look for 60% carbs, 40% protein with negligible fat. I understand this is virtually impossible because almost everything has trace levels of fat, yada yada yada, BUT I am crafty :). Let me detail my typical carb loads for you: 1-1.5 grams protein/lb, 3 grams cho/lb per 24 hour period… these loads usually take about 36 hours for me before I feel myself hold subcutaneous water.

My food choices are simple: egg whites, George Foreman’d skinless chicken breast, tuna, , apples, grapefruit, oranges, bananas, sweet potatoes/yams (cook beautifully in the microwave), and brown rice (boiled, make sure to do it no longer than 8-10 minutes or you will jack up the GI). Remember when I said that I’m crafty?

Take a look at this meal:
1-2 apples, 6 egg whites: NO fat, 36 g of the best protein there is, about 20 oz of sweet potato/yam or 2 cups of brown rice for approximately 100 g cho and 2, yes 2, grams of fat. I’m a little dogmatic in this way, and I eat the food in the exact order listed, but I’m leaner and stronger week-in, week-out and have been able to avoid fat regain from the carb-loads. Incidentally, it’s my opinion that I may even be burning a bit of BF during the weekends.

Enough of my asides, what I’m suggesting to you is keeping absolute track of your cals. Weekdays: 2000-2200 (depending on your weight and if you can get away with it), weekends: minimizing the fat in your loads will keep cals down and will still maximize your leptin reset and glycogen supercompensation. Godspeed and clue me in as to your vitals.[/quote]

well we practice 2 hours5 days/week…i weigh 164 but wanna get to 160…howver if im ouuta my skivvies after practice im 161.5 so i need to drop 2-3 lbs to be comfortable i think…dieting is no biggy i just need to watch my breakfasts which usually screw me over the rest of the day leaving me with low cals

4066

thanx chris and ovalpline :slight_smile: im down in florida and in a few weks im goin from the bay to the ocean for a tourny so im psyched especially since its my first and last season

4067

how r u guys doing ? been on the ad for almost 9 months now. wanted to share 1 very imp info …pls d0nt rely much on whey on ad as wheys conversion to glucose is at a alarming rate of54%. so whole food is better and a blend of cassien egg and whey will be much more helpfull and effective and remember the oldschool guys and people who trained with vince gironda mostly ate steak eggs and veggeis even after workout.

so far iam progressing nicely for my fat loss the scale dosent show much but i have more veins pooping out of my arms and forearms. and never in my life i had this thick and hard look.skin has improved a lot i had a tooth ache problem which has vanished since iam on this diet.and energy u guys know how it feels no need to discuss that right :slight_smile:

one change i made which has helped me is after my carb up …the next day i up my fat a little more like just sipping olive oil in the middle of the meals .by wed i reduce it a little.
iam planning to do hiit 20 min session right after my weights what is ur opinion on this ? will it help ? for fat loss?

my workouts with weights are almost done in fast fashion and i complete them in 30 min

4068

Pauli D -

Does your strategy of increasing fat intake throughout the week drastically affect the calorie totals for each day?

Say your carb load is Fri-night - Sat-morning. Would you eat low cal on Sunday, increasing it with fat intake each day until you reach a peak Friday morning? Then you’d taper off the fat Friday afternoon and eat a few carbs to warm yourself up to the big carbup on Saturday?

Could you go into more detail about what kinds of foods you eat at different points in the week (what are the ‘few’ carbs before the big carbload, etc.)?

4069

[quote]industrialplaid wrote:
Pauli D -

Does your strategy of increasing fat intake throughout the week drastically affect the calorie totals for each day?

Say your carb load is Fri-night - Sat-morning. Would you eat low cal on Sunday, increasing it with fat intake each day until you reach a peak Friday morning? Then you’d taper off the fat Friday afternoon and eat a few carbs to warm yourself up to the big carbup on Saturday?

Could you go into more detail about what kinds of foods you eat at different points in the week (what are the ‘few’ carbs before the big carbload, etc.)?[/quote]

Generally speaking cals should waver or undulate a bit anyway.
For us, say after a carb-load for instance, we tyically consume fewer cals naturally. You just feel more satiated (full) more quickly after a load. I don’t really think of it as ‘low-cal’ …more like fueling the furnace with what it needs -when it needs it and nothing more.

As the week progresses, for instance, the accumulative stress (from training) demands more recovery and recovery demands fuel. So (at least in my exp) it makes sense to support that recovery by increasing cals.

Am I speaking too abstractly?
Ex:
Your week may begin at 4200, the next day you may need 4800 and the next day closer to 5200 and by the end of the training week you might be at 6500 or 6750 to feel recovered and nourished.

We’re BUILDING things here! We need supplies and material for the Big Build! Let your body know there’s no shortage in supplies. Give it what it needs -you won’t grow otherwise.

So in the example above, you’ve averaged 5300 cals a day. The only difference is you gave your body what it needed as it needed it. As the week progressed and training took its toll, the more recovery you needed and the more fuel you supplied to aid in that recovery.
Make sense?

Again, your mileage may vary, but this is what has worked for me.

RE: Carb Loads
Basically the best way to approach a carb-load (that I’ve found anyway) is to start slow and light.

Call me crazy…but I still love the way it feels to be all pumped up all day long, simply from the foods I eat!

And since I’ve more than likely been chowing upwards of 6500 cals…I’m not starved. I can eat light…a little fruit and some oats and then some more fruit a little later on…a PB&J sandwich (or two) with maybe a milkshake thrown in for good measure…and still feel light and ripped and ready to lift the house off its foundations.

Carb-loads are fun! They’re Great! I always feel fantastic!
I think too many folks put too much effort into 'em.
Relax.
You should be feeling really great -not like your belly is going to explode and you need a nap.

This is supposed to be a fun and healthy lifestyle, after all.

:wink:

peace

4070

[quote]raviraj wrote:
iam planning to do hiit 20 min session right after my weights what is ur opinion on this ? will it help ? for fat loss? [/quote]

It could definitely aid fat loss, but be careful. I’ve had a couple of experiences of feeling sickly overtrained the next day after HIIT while on the AD. Granted, I was doing the HIIT sessions later on in the week when I was more glycogen depleted, and HIIT tends to selectively obliterate your glycogen stores. So, I think the lesson to take from this if you want to avoid feeling like you got hit by a truck the next day after a HIIT session is to perform them earlier on in the week when your glycogen stores are higher. In fact, I think there is a simple message to this: if you are trying to burn as much bodyfat as possible you should focus on ripping through your glycogen as early in the week as possible. My suggestion to you is to perform HIIT after weights on your first and MAYBE your second workouts post carb-up. Thereafter, stick with the weights (perhaps performing dropsets and supersets to keep intensity/minute high) and if you have the energy use some low intensity cardio sessions either first thing in the morning or directly after your workout. And always remember that it’s very difficult to outtrain your diet, so keep an eye on your cal intake and food selection both during the low-carb and carb-up phases. Godspeed.

4071

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
raviraj wrote:
iam planning to do hiit 20 min session right after my weights what is ur opinion on this ? will it help ? for fat loss?

It could definitely aid fat loss, but be careful. I’ve had a couple of experiences of feeling sickly overtrained the next day after HIIT while on the AD. Granted, I was doing the HIIT sessions later on in the week when I was more glycogen depleted, and HIIT tends to selectively obliterate your glycogen stores. So, I think the lesson to take from this if you want to avoid feeling like you got hit by a truck the next day after a HIIT session is to perform them earlier on in the week when your glycogen stores are higher. In fact, I think there is a simple message to this: if you are trying to burn as much bodyfat as possible you should focus on ripping through your glycogen as early in the week as possible. My suggestion to you is to perform HIIT after weights on your first and MAYBE your second workouts post carb-up. Thereafter, stick with the weights (perhaps performing dropsets and supersets to keep intensity/minute high) and if you have the energy use some low intensity cardio sessions either first thing in the morning or directly after your workout. And always remember that it’s very difficult to outtrain your diet, so keep an eye on your cal intake and food selection both during the low-carb and carb-up phases. Godspeed.
[/quote]

tht was fantastically explained thanx a million for tht and i will use hiit session for 2 days after my workout for 20min after the carbup.
by the way what is effective later in the week ? cardio on empty stomach for 30 min or cardio after weights just walk on treadmill for 30min ? which is more effective?

4072

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
RE: Carb Loads
Basically the best way to approach a carb-load (that I’ve found anyway) is to start slow and light.

Call me crazy…but I still love the way it feels to be all pumped up all day long, simply from the foods I eat!

And since I’ve more than likely been chowing upwards of 6500 cals…I’m not starved. I can eat light…a little fruit and some oats and then some more fruit a little later on…a PB&J sandwich (or two) with maybe a milkshake thrown in for good measure…and still feel light and ripped and ready to lift the house off its foundations.

Carb-loads are fun! They’re Great! I always feel fantastic!
I think too many folks put too much effort into 'em.
Relax.
You should be feeling really great -not like your belly is going to explode and you need a nap.

This is supposed to be a fun and healthy lifestyle, after all.

:wink:

peace
[/quote]

Pauli, I really like your view and attitude on carbups, I agree that its the almost fearful nature of them that may cause things to go bad. Atleast thats how it has been for me =). I’m just starting to get over that now.

Oh and guess what I found guys… I found the “Anabolic Solution for Bodybuilders” by Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale in pdf form and I currently have it on my hard drive. I havn’t had time to read it yet as school has been kicking my ass. I’m taking Calc2 and chemistry right now and the homework takes foooorrreeevvveeerrrr.

But if anybody wants it just PM me and I would be happy to e-mail it to u. The file isnt that big. I’m also lookin for the one for powerlifters but no luck on that yet.

-Bizmark

4073

what fiber supp is the best bang for my buck

4074

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
what fiber supp is the best bang for my buck[/quote]

get some unflavored psyllium husk. they are cheap and work like a charm.

4075

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
raviraj wrote:
iam planning to do hiit 20 min session right after my weights what is ur opinion on this ? will it help ? for fat loss?

It could definitely aid fat loss, but be careful. I’ve had a couple of experiences of feeling sickly overtrained the next day after HIIT while on the AD. Granted, I was doing the HIIT sessions later on in the week when I was more glycogen depleted, and HIIT tends to selectively obliterate your glycogen stores. So, I think the lesson to take from this if you want to avoid feeling like you got hit by a truck the next day after a HIIT session is to perform them earlier on in the week when your glycogen stores are higher. In fact, I think there is a simple message to this: if you are trying to burn as much bodyfat as possible you should focus on ripping through your glycogen as early in the week as possible. My suggestion to you is to perform HIIT after weights on your first and MAYBE your second workouts post carb-up. Thereafter, stick with the weights (perhaps performing dropsets and supersets to keep intensity/minute high) and if you have the energy use some low intensity cardio sessions either first thing in the morning or directly after your workout. And always remember that it’s very difficult to outtrain your diet, so keep an eye on your cal intake and food selection both during the low-carb and carb-up phases. Godspeed.
[/quote]

Gotta give ya props on this explanation…and can explain some feelings that I have when I’m “doing too much” HIIT-type cardio.

Good stuff,man

4076

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
Generally speaking cals should waver or undulate a bit anyway.
For us, say after a carb-load for instance, we tyically consume fewer cals naturally. You just feel more satiated (full) more quickly after a load. I don’t really think of it as ‘low-cal’ …more like fueling the furnace with what it needs -when it needs it and nothing more.

As the week progresses, for instance, the accumulative stress (from training) demands more recovery and recovery demands fuel. So (at least in my exp) it makes sense to support that recovery by increasing cals.
[/quote]

I really like your approach to the AD - eating when you feel like you need the extra fuel and then laying a little back on the consumption when you’re sated.

I’m planning on slowly upping my cals over the coming weeks, since I’m going for a big bulk this year (I want to give my metabolism a couple weeks to come up from the ~2500/day that I’ve been at for months). I will give your approach a try on my next carb up.

4077

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
raviraj wrote:
iam planning to do hiit 20 min session right after my weights what is ur opinion on this ? will it help ? for fat loss?

It could definitely aid fat loss, but be careful. I’ve had a couple of experiences of feeling sickly overtrained the next day after HIIT while on the AD. Granted, I was doing the HIIT sessions later on in the week when I was more glycogen depleted, and HIIT tends to selectively obliterate your glycogen stores. So, I think the lesson to take from this if you want to avoid feeling like you got hit by a truck the next day after a HIIT session is to perform them earlier on in the week when your glycogen stores are higher. In fact, I think there is a simple message to this: if you are trying to burn as much bodyfat as possible you should focus on ripping through your glycogen as early in the week as possible. My suggestion to you is to perform HIIT after weights on your first and MAYBE your second workouts post carb-up. Thereafter, stick with the weights (perhaps performing dropsets and supersets to keep intensity/minute high) and if you have the energy use some low intensity cardio sessions either first thing in the morning or directly after your workout. And always remember that it’s very difficult to outtrain your diet, so keep an eye on your cal intake and food selection both during the low-carb and carb-up phases. Godspeed.
[/quote]
Alright, I’m gonna ask now because I’ve been wondering for a while and I’m never gonna know unless I ask, so here goes…

if we are fat adapted (that is our everyday activities run on fat if I’m not mistaken) why would it theoretically mean that we burn more fat throughout the week if we deplete glycogen as soon as possible when glycogen is only used for intense activity.

I like the idea of getting HIIT in early in the week when we have the stores to support it, but I was thinking that we are burning fat throughout the week, meaning that it wouldn’t matter whether we were depleted or not. Can anybody make this clear for me?

4078

Hey guys i am new here but this diet sounds amazing, i use to have a copy of the dbook, but cannot for the life of me find it?

happy eatin people! yay I love food!

4079

so can i find this stuff at any ole store or a nutrition store

4080

[quote]josh.shafer wrote:
<<< if we are fat adapted (that is our everyday activities run on fat if I’m not mistaken) why would it theoretically mean that we burn more fat throughout the week if we deplete glycogen as soon as possible when glycogen is only used for intense activity. >>>
[/quote]

I don’t mean to be a joykill here, but this guy is hitting (pun?) a point here kinda sideways. HIIT burns more fat post activity, but has a decidedly anerobic component while it’s being done. Anerobic work can only be fueled by glycogen and in the absence of existing stores aminos are converted to glycogen, read muscle.

This leads me to suspect that fat adapted athletes may not be as well served by HIIT as cho burning folks, but may also be much better suited to lower intensity cardio than cho burning folks just because the adapted metabolism prefers fat of which plenty is always available. I’m not declaring this an indisputable fact, but it’s something I’ve been pondering for a while.

4081

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
so can i find this stuff at any ole store or a nutrition store[/quote]

RE: Fiber.

Yes, you can probably find physillium husks at a Health Food store -or even a Wal-Mart (which may be less expensive)

However!!!
If you’re really interested in good lower (and overall) GI health -you’ll get your fiber from the copius amounts of veggies you’re already eating (sarcasm intended) AND from the milled flax seed you’re adding to your diet.

The benefits of both veggies and flax are numerous …above and far beyond the obvious need for ‘roughage,’ as my Pop would say.

:wink:
peace