My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
3702

My guess (and I emphasise guess) would be that this is were the percentages come in with the vast majority of cals coming from fat, thus making it the bodies first choice fuel. If you are obtaining a large surplus of calories from dietary fat then the body will use this rather than bodyfat.(this changes when cutting) your level of protein however never substantially drops in this diet thus even if the body uses protein to some extent as an energy source it has the surplus to feed off rather than muscle. Thats the logic I would use anyway. If your still unsure just look at the guys that use this diet. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say thee ain’t much muscle catabolism goin on there :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]dashforce wrote:
What I meant is this: we “teach” our bodies to use fat by giving it lots of fat (and starving it of carbs).

Are we “teaching” our bodies to use protein as well? Both aminos and fats are used in gluconeogenesis, which I presume is the process that’s maintaining our blood glucose levels.

If our bodies are burning more fat in the absence of carbs, are they burning more protein as well? If the body can’t discern between body fat and dietary fat, wouldn’t it also metabolize muscle as well as aminos?[/quote]

3703

i’m at day 10 of the transition and haven’t got nauseous so far, just been in a bit of a brain fog and feeling weak. my appetite has decreased a lot as well, perhaps from all the fat. but i’ve noticed that upping fat intake helps a lot with the weak, lethargic feeling - on day 4 and day 9 i felt awful and couldn’t work out; upped the fats on those days and felt much better and able to work out the next day.

[quote]Bizmark wrote:
I have a question about the crash. I know that your supposed to feel flu like symptoms… but did any of you actually get nauseous and throw up? Cuz yesterday morning I was throwing up like it was nobodies business (which it wasn’t) and then about midafternoon it just stopped. I may have had food poisoning or something like that, but I didn’t eat anything for the rest of the day and I had no problems. Then today I wake up and everything is fine, I’m just my normal self accept my appetite is wayyyy low. I’m just wondering if I actually got a 24 hour bug or something or if it was the crash.[/quote]

3704

[quote]sifuinkorea wrote:
This is precisely why I advocate a much less oft carb up - this and the fact that I do not compete in bodybuilding shows. It all depends on your goals and needs.

Does this make sense? Does anyone adhere to a version of this diet like my own - one where they carb up much less often? If so, how do you feel?
[/quote]

For the record, I completely agree with you. You should always adjust your diet to your needs and reactions to diet. However, I’m ambivalent: on the one hand, the less frequent and less intensive carb-up phase makes your version of the AD discernibly NOT the AD.

HOWEVER, even Dr. D. says we should adjust the diet to our liking, and I personally dislike the carb-up phase. During the carb-up phase, I really don’t feel like eating any more carbs after about the first-half of the first day of the carb-up.

And if you look at the diet(s) that Gironda advocated, he advocated one concentrated carb-up meal every 4 days or so, usually he last meal of the day. I have used this diet in the past and it works like magic, especially in terms of fat loss.

Personally, I think I’m going to switch back over to the Vince Gironda diet because I simply prefer it. I feel better and look better on it: there are no days of feeling bloated, etc. I should note that I can only imagine that the AD is better for muscle gain simply due to the greater emphasis on maximizing insulin (carb-loading until smoothing out).

Buuut… I’m 5’6" and 160 pounds at approximately 6% bodyfat. I look big enough and am very comfortable with how my body looks. And truthfully, I’m more about being hyper-ripped than filling out shirts.

At any rate, I just figured I’d chime in on the subject. Especially, reading Bizmark’s experiences on losing fat on the AD. I agree with you, Biz. And I think you may want to consider giving the Gironda approach a try. Again, personalize it how you please.

My personal opinion is that the fear of losing muscle while low-carb for extended periods of time is exaggerated. I do agree that it’s less efficient in putting on muscle, but losing muscle? C’mon. That just won’t happen unless you are so low in BF that you are hypogonadal testosterone secretion-wise. Berardi often takes his clients on a 3 week no carb, one carb up day diet diet.

I was a little tentative about writing this because this diet is all about our experience on the AD, but then again, this is my experience. While I agree that the AD is a good place to start, I think it’s important to personalize it to how we like it.

And I think THAT’s what sifuinkorea is talking about. And I definitely don’t think he’s full of shit. On that note, I ate so much fucking stuffing and potatoes yesterday, and it was all OK because I was going about 10 days w/o having had a carb-up. PERSONALIZATION.

3705

Hi all,

I’m just starting out on the diet and its looking good, No Hunger and enjoying the food! I am using Fitday.com to keep some sort of track of cals, carbs and all. I really didn’t see the hidden carbs mounting up till I put them all in the fitday calculator! Anyway I have a few short questions for anyone who is willing to help.

  1. Can someone give me Cals,Fats,Carbs and Protein of 410mg Of Cod lIver Oil(1 Capsule)

  2. I bought Tesco(UK Shop)Grillsteaks and the label say 1 Grillsteak(67g) has 3.5g of Carbs, But label also says that 100g has 0 Carbs! I’m confused, Has anyone eaten these and knows which one is correct?

  3. Ok last One. eg When a label says Carbs 6…of which sugar 2. What does this mean, should we only count the ones that sugar?

Cheers Guys!

3706

[quote]mark1506 wrote:
Hi all,

I’m just starting out on the diet and its looking good, No Hunger and enjoying the food! I am using Fitday.com to keep some sort of track of cals, carbs and all. I really didn’t see the hidden carbs mounting up till I put them all in the fitday calculator! Anyway I have a few short questions for anyone who is willing to help.

  1. Can someone give me Cals,Fats,Carbs and Protein of 410mg Of Cod lIver Oil(1 Capsule)

  2. I bought Tesco(UK Shop)Grillsteaks and the label say 1 Grillsteak(67g) has 3.5g of Carbs, But label also says that 100g has 0 Carbs! I’m confused, Has anyone eaten these and knows which one is correct?

  3. Ok last One. eg When a label says Carbs 6…of which sugar 2. What does this mean, should we only count the ones that sugar?

Cheers Guys![/quote]

  1. CALS 37
    4.1 GRAMS FAT, NO PRO, NO CARBS
  2. see number 3
  3. ignore what the sugars says, take total carbs, subtrac fiber, this is what you count.

Hope this helps, i’m not an expert!

3707

[quote]gitrpumped wrote:
mark1506 wrote:
Hi all,

I’m just starting out on the diet and its looking good, No Hunger and enjoying the food! I am using Fitday.com to keep some sort of track of cals, carbs and all. I really didn’t see the hidden carbs mounting up till I put them all in the fitday calculator! Anyway I have a few short questions for anyone who is willing to help.

  1. Can someone give me Cals,Fats,Carbs and Protein of 410mg Of Cod lIver Oil(1 Capsule)

  2. I bought Tesco(UK Shop)Grillsteaks and the label say 1 Grillsteak(67g) has 3.5g of Carbs, But label also says that 100g has 0 Carbs! I’m confused, Has anyone eaten these and knows which one is correct?

  3. Ok last One. eg When a label says Carbs 6…of which sugar 2. What does this mean, should we only count the ones that sugar?

Cheers Guys!

  1. CALS 37
    4.1 GRAMS FAT, NO PRO, NO CARBS
  2. see number 3
  3. ignore what the sugars says, take total carbs, subtrac fiber, this is what you count.

Hope this helps, i’m not an expert![/quote]

Thnaks mate much appreciated

3708

[quote]ovalpline wrote:

I was a little tentative about writing this because this diet is all about our experience on the AD, but then again, this is my experience. While I agree that the AD is a good place to start, I think it’s important to personalize it to how we like it. /quote]

I had the same hesitation about sharing my experience on this thread until I came to th same conclusion that you did.

The crux of it is this, IMO, any version of low-carb eating has the same practical focus - i.e, eat a diet low in carbs. The AD uniquely incorporates carb phases - something too important to just mention, hence the reason for a 151 page thread - but the truly significant difference in Dr D’s research and teachings is the explication of the human body’s fuel systems and how to control them. That is, how to transform from a sugar burner to a fat burner and it’s parameters.

My personal path began on the AD and although I do not myself adhere to it as prescribed, I am very much a fan of it. Like you , I am just not centered on gaining muscle mass, but on performance, energy levels, alertness, mood… etc. I believe the AD is one of the trees in the forest - in fact, it is the only huge Sequoia present - but it is stiil part of the same forest.

Bizmark -
Again, bodycomp is not my focus, but I think there is little resulting difference in my body comp from whatever diet I eat, save I may appear sharper in the mirror. The huge practical difference is in control and ease. It is much easier, in both daily structure and personal discipline, to maintain and improve my bodycomp. - I hope I read you question right.

To preface, It takes about 3 months for the body to turn over your blood, meaning that is how much time it takes for all your red blood cells to be replaced by new ones. It would seem then that at a minimum it would take at least this long to truly see how your environment in affecting you biologically - to inlcude you diet. That being said, my observations are this: the difference, for me, between the AD as prescribed and using a singular carb meal infrequently is noticed over time. I feel better (more alert stable mood, higher performance), stronger, and fuller all of the time, as opposed to half a week on the AD. On the AD, I felt better during the week but stronger and fuller on the day or two after the carb phase.

Over time, 6 months - one year, I feel my performance, mood stability, gut… etc, is overall much better than when carbing more often. My overall size is obviously less than eating carb phases, but again, I am more involved with performance and my job sometimes does not give me time to recover from the “carbohydrate coma” every week. I do still believe that AD is awesome for gaining strength and size, and conversing on this thread is a great way to share in the effects of every variation of this diet, as we all have the same thing in common.

-SK

3709

ovalpline…

What is an example of the daily carb meal on Gironda’s scheme that you’ll use?

SK

and why does my post come out grey?

3710

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
sifuinkorea wrote:
This is precisely why I advocate a much less oft carb up - this and the fact that I do not compete in bodybuilding shows. It all depends on your goals and needs.

Does this make sense? Does anyone adhere to a version of this diet like my own - one where they carb up much less often? If so, how do you feel?

For the record, I completely agree with you. You should always adjust your diet to your needs and reactions to diet. However, I’m ambivalent: on the one hand, the less frequent and less intensive carb-up phase makes your version of the AD discernibly NOT the AD.

HOWEVER, even Dr. D. says we should adjust the diet to our liking, and I personally dislike the carb-up phase. During the carb-up phase, I really don’t feel like eating any more carbs after about the first-half of the first day of the carb-up.

And if you look at the diet(s) that Gironda advocated, he advocated one concentrated carb-up meal every 4 days or so, usually he last meal of the day. I have used this diet in the past and it works like magic, especially in terms of fat loss.

Personally, I think I’m going to switch back over to the Vince Gironda diet because I simply prefer it. I feel better and look better on it: there are no days of feeling bloated, etc. I should note that I can only imagine that the AD is better for muscle gain simply due to the greater emphasis on maximizing insulin (carb-loading until smoothing out).

Buuut… I’m 5’6" and 160 pounds at approximately 6% bodyfat. I look big enough and am very comfortable with how my body looks. And truthfully, I’m more about being hyper-ripped than filling out shirts.

At any rate, I just figured I’d chime in on the subject. Especially, reading Bizmark’s experiences on losing fat on the AD. I agree with you, Biz. And I think you may want to consider giving the Gironda approach a try. Again, personalize it how you please.

My personal opinion is that the fear of losing muscle while low-carb for extended periods of time is exaggerated. I do agree that it’s less efficient in putting on muscle, but losing muscle? C’mon. That just won’t happen unless you are so low in BF that you are hypogonadal testosterone secretion-wise. Berardi often takes his clients on a 3 week no carb, one carb up day diet diet.

I was a little tentative about writing this because this diet is all about our experience on the AD, but then again, this is my experience. While I agree that the AD is a good place to start, I think it’s important to personalize it to how we like it.

And I think THAT’s what sifuinkorea is talking about. And I definitely don’t think he’s full of shit. On that note, I ate so much fucking stuffing and potatoes yesterday, and it was all OK because I was going about 10 days w/o having had a carb-up. PERSONALIZATION. [/quote]

You know what, thats exactly what I was doing for a while. I was going for about 4 days without carbs, and then one day just having some carbs for my last meal. I had no idea that I was actually doing something that someone came up with. But it seemed kinda natural almost…

ovalpine, would you be able to pm me a link or post it here for some information on Gironda’s diet? I searched on google but I’m not really sure exactly what I should be looking for… lotsa different stuff came up.

3711

That’s a good idea. I’d be interested in Gironda’s diet as well. I remember reading some good stuff about his ways but it’s been like 15 years since I’ve perused a BB magazine or book.

Maybe we should begin a thread documenting our versions of the low-carb diet and what we are eating from day to day, on average, and see who gets good results.

Who’s up for the challenge so close to the Holidays?

SK

3712

[quote]sifuinkorea wrote:
That’s a good idea. I’d be interested in Gironda’s diet as well. I remember reading some good stuff about his ways but it’s been like 15 years since I’ve perused a BB magazine or book.

Maybe we should begin a thread documenting our versions of the low-carb diet and what we are eating from day to day, on average, and see who gets good results.

Who’s up for the challenge so close to the Holidays?

SK[/quote]

I’m most definitely up for that. It sounds like fun. We need to list what we are doing for exercise as well, because that can make a huge affect.

I definitely want to read up more on Gironda before we start though.

3713

If you guys do go on this other diet, I only ask that you please start a new thread…please respect this thread as it’s dedicated primarily to the AD.

AD

3714

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
If you guys do go on this other diet, I only ask that you please start a new thread…please respect this thread as it’s dedicated primarily to the AD.

AD[/quote]

Word

peace

3715

One thing I’m trying to understand are people saying that they like to carb up less often or smaller amounts than a full day or two because the carbs make them groggy and feel like they got hit by a ton of bricks.

Wondering if its just me, cause I only reallly got that the first time after the 2 week break in. After that my energy has been fine on carb ups, so I look forward to them.

3716

[quote]YoungGunner wrote:
One thing I’m trying to understand are people saying that they like to carb up less often or smaller amounts than a full day or two because the carbs make them groggy and feel like they got hit by a ton of bricks.

Wondering if its just me, cause I only reallly got that the first time after the 2 week break in. After that my energy has been fine on carb ups, so I look forward to them.[/quote]

I?m not exactly sure why the disparity exists. I suppose it is just a matter of personal experience/preference.
But I must say that a little investment of time sure pays off, once you figure out what foods you respond to best, that is.

I think some folks have the impression that the carb loads are a massive gorge-fest free-for-all …not the case. Some take it to the extreme, sure, but most do not, at least not with any regularity.

There is no doubt that extended periods of low carb eating has its benefits in extreme situations, just as there is also no doubt that too often this practice can tend towards a more catabolic environment.

Without the carb up and occasional refeed, you?re missing out on the optimal hormonal environment that is the hallmark of the AD.

Admittedly, it?s not for everyone. But if you feel rotten during or immediately following a carb load …something is amiss.

peace

3717

alphadragon…

of course - if fact, I’d like the thread to be sort of a diary of diet and exercise coupled with question/comments, and it would be a good thing if all of us posted to it - even the orthodox AD’ers. If nothing else it would a be a place where we can compare and discuss different effects of different versions of diet and execise - the theme being low-carb.

YoungGunner…

some of us are probably just more sensitive to carbs than others. I’m just guessing here but, don’t you know some cats who can just survive on nothing but sugar? I’m talking candy only as the majority of their diet, and never crash or seem to whiz around, or gain any bodyfat. Then there are those of us who after a normal moderate carb meal, will suffer a huge high and subsequent crash. I think it is the same for both those types when they attempt the AD. Being in the Army - and an instructor at that - I have had the opportunity to witness the effects of diet and exercise (as well as other things) on a huge population of folks, and this is one of those notes.

I am definitely one of the former - if I eat anything with a higher GI than a pear, by itself, than I’m prepping for my coma. Can anybody chime in on this with a more educated thesis?

And YG, could you share with us what a usual carb up phase consists of for you?

Biz…

read up and get on the wagon! I don’t know how start a thread but I’m ready to post today’s food and work, including the cream in my coffee I’m enjoying right now. Having to subscribe to a post will keep me honest and working hard - I look forward to it.

  • my thanks for all the support goes out to all on this thread. SK
3718

[quote]YoungGunner wrote:
One thing I’m trying to understand are people saying that they like to carb up less often or smaller amounts than a full day or two because the carbs make them groggy and feel like they got hit by a ton of bricks.

Wondering if its just me, cause I only reallly got that the first time after the 2 week break in. After that my energy has been fine on carb ups, so I look forward to them.[/quote]

My first carb up made me feel like a zombie, actually and wanted to stay in a comatose sleep all day…

After that, they have been making me more chilled and relaxed…I’m not as energetic, but usually a cup or 2 of coffee will change that. :wink:

AD

3719

sifuinkorea, i am making the thread here in a few minutes. I’ve got a good opening explaining what we are doing and all that, so should be good (about to pm you about some other info too).

Also, I wanted to title the thread “Our Experience Off the Anabolic Diet”… I thought that was rather clever, hehehe. But I wanted to run that title by some of the people already on this thread because I thought that it may come off as disrespectful or mocking to the AD thread, if it does then I won’t name it that.

So please leave me your opinions about that title.

3720

Geez, I gotta get caught up with this thread. I’ve been hung up in a bunch of other ones. Today,s carb load had me feeling like 210 pounds of liquid demerol until about 4 o clock. Haven’t had that in a while. Did have a great workout though at 7. My ribs are about 90% better which is great.

3721

hi everyone, i’m on day 12 and was wondering about fat intake on carb loads…

i’ve done CKD and UD2, and lyle suggests consuming as little fat as possible on his carb loads - <50g. he says that the body will want to store any fat consumed back to fat.

however, Doc D and DH recommend eating fat, like around 30%.

do the programs work differenly so that fat gets partitioned in different ways? or is lyle just wrong about what the body does with the fat?