My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
3602

To an above poster:

If you’re getting really wiped out on your carb ups, are you training on carb up days?

I would definitely advise it.

  1. If you’re doing your job in the kitchen, what you do in the gym during a carb up is only going to enhance. You’re not going to “Waste” any of the CHO. If anything, it’ll let you eat more without getting fat-tastic.

  2. Even if you don’t weight train on the carb up, definitely do something, try going for a long walk or some other light-moderate cardio. Hell, even some HIIT if that’s really your thing.

Any exercise will help aid glucose disposal, improve nutrient partitioning to lean tissue and help get rid of the CHO induced seratonin doldrums. Specifically, weight training will take advantage of the large amounts of nutrients and the milieu of anabolic hormones (primarily insulin, to a lesser extent GH/IGF, maybe even elevated test/decreased SHBG) and potentially shove more water/CHO into the working muscles.

Incidentally, I trink Trib mentioned creatine loading on the CHO load. I think it’s a great idea, just don’t restrict salt. You need the sodium to help get all the good stuff in the cells. Besides, I’m just not for restricting sodium anytime.

3603

I personally really feel that i smooth out too quickly on carb loads, midway through sunday at the latest i’m breaking out the bacon again. I also feel i may follow what DH mentioned before, and tweak my protein up on the CHO load. I just don’t trust eating next to no ‘deliberate’ protein. I might try it at 15-20%.

3604

Ok so things are settling down a bit…cravings are beginning to disappear and so on. Whats the story with calories? I’m 155Ibs and lean so looking to bulk FAST now that i’m settled into this way of eating. what should i be shooting for during the week compared to weekend. heres my diet for today…feedback would be great.

Meal1 - 3 large eggs…fresh cream mixed with calcium caseinate 1 tablespoon (milk protein)
3 fish oil caps/ psylium husks/ multi

Meal2 - 90g pack of pistachio nuts/ diet coke

Meal3 - 2 8Ibs burgers + roughly 10 - 15 brussel sprouts 3 fish oil

Meal4 - 150g steak with same amount of brussel sprouts and 3 fish oil

meal5- 150g steak followed by sugar free jelly and fresh cream#

If anyone else can post there diet on random days that would be great. also i’m terrible when it comes to calculating calories, anyone got a rough idea what all that comes to? no need to break out the calculators =P

3605

[quote]zed962 wrote:
Tirib/Sasha G/etc.,

Just looking on a little input on Poliquin’s 4:1 carb cycling recommendations.

Basically, I’m wondering what you guys think an adequate number of CHO is for the cheat meal Poliquin recommends every fifth day. If I were to take a stab at a minimum to start, I would say 300 g CHO. Basically, it’ll be about 75% clean (oats, whole-wheat pasta, etc.) with a couple of treats thrown in to make up the rest.

I will say that I am getting a little over 30g CHO on the four other days, but this is due to a huge addition of green veggies. My other incidentals are identical to when I kept it to 30g or less per day. I think extra veggies will do nothing but positive things for me. Goals are to lose maximum bodyfat while continuing to make the strength increases I’ve seen while starting my body recomp.

This thread, along with the Brotherhood of Iron thread, is probably my favorite on this site. Your input is highly respected and greatly appreciated.

Zed[/quote]

Zed,

This depends entirely on how lean you are. If you are above approximately 15% BF I would restrict yourself to one meal, roughly 200-300 grams of carbohydrates for dinner. If you are between roughly 12-15%, two meals totaling approximately 400 grams of CHOs would suffice. And if you’re below 12%,3 carb based meals at approximately 500-600 grams of CHOs.

With Poliquin’s 4:1 styled diet you really need to try, evaluate and adjust because CHO tolerance is very specific to each person. Also, using the 4:1 eating regime you still need to go through an induction phase to shift your metabolism into fat burning.

Unfortunately I do not have all the details of the program however I do know that his approach was heavily influenced by a lot of Dr. D’s work.

Cheers,

Sasha

3606

OMC mate with your body comp, goals etc i think you could really eat more, you know? Get some olive oil, and in addition to what you are eating now, have a few tablespoons each meal. It’s really good.
I’m personally bigger than u and not as lean, but heres a typical days meals-

150g bacon. 5 whole eggs. 75g cheese. bowl spinach. celery. 2 caps fish oil

250g beef. mushrooms, pepper, chillis, garlic/onions. 2 tbsp olive oil

100g some nuts or cheese if on the go. fish oil if i can

3 chicken portions (thighs). 4 caps fish oil. broccoli

2 tins tuna, 50g almonds. green beans

that kind of thing. And while i’m not the expert (Sash’ll be here real soon) i’m guessing you take in less calories than me, but need more.

Buy more eggs, beef mince (cheap shit can be seasoned with chillis et al), bacon (if you dont mind swine) and that. Go to town on this. Good luck mate

3607

[quote]SashaG wrote:
zed962 wrote:
Tirib/Sasha G/etc.,

Just looking on a little input on Poliquin’s 4:1 carb cycling recommendations.

Basically, I’m wondering what you guys think an adequate number of CHO is for the cheat meal Poliquin recommends every fifth day. If I were to take a stab at a minimum to start, I would say 300 g CHO. Basically, it’ll be about 75% clean (oats, whole-wheat pasta, etc.) with a couple of treats thrown in to make up the rest.

I will say that I am getting a little over 30g CHO on the four other days, but this is due to a huge addition of green veggies. My other incidentals are identical to when I kept it to 30g or less per day. I think extra veggies will do nothing but positive things for me. Goals are to lose maximum bodyfat while continuing to make the strength increases I’ve seen while starting my body recomp.

This thread, along with the Brotherhood of Iron thread, is probably my favorite on this site. Your input is highly respected and greatly appreciated.

Zed

Zed,

This depends entirely on how lean you are. If you are above approximately 15% BF I would restrict yourself to one meal, roughly 200-300 grams of carbohydrates for dinner. If you are between roughly 12-15%, two meals totaling approximately 400 grams of CHOs would suffice. And if you’re below 12%,3 carb based meals at approximately 500-600 grams of CHOs.

With Poliquin’s 4:1 styled diet you really need to try, evaluate and adjust because CHO tolerance is very specific to each person. Also, using the 4:1 eating regime you still need to go through an induction phase to shift your metabolism into fat burning.

Unfortunately I do not have all the details of the program however I do know that his approach was heavily influenced by a lot of Dr. D’s work.

Cheers,

Sasha
[/quote]

Sasha,

Thanks for the input. I have been through the induction for the AD and have been through a number of CHO loads This is also my second time through, so I’ve acquired a lot of information regarding how I react to this lifestyle.

I think I am gonna go with 300 grams to start and adjust from there. I’m probably around 15% or a little under. I certainly don’t think 300’s falling really short of where I might need to be. I also think it’s easier to adjust upwards than throttle back on the loads.

You’re right as well about how Poliquin has been heavily influenced by Doc D. However, Poliquin does not give a specific number for the loads, just a means to adjust up or down (this can be found on his website). I’ll definitely keep everyone updated on how I progress through this. The first load is tomorrow. I’ll be going with whole-wheat pasta with marinara and a little mozarella, oatmeal with blueberries, and then a couple of treats to get to 300.

The main reason I want to give this a shot is because I really go overboard on the loads. I am not disciplined enough to eat X grams of carbs over 30-36 hours. However, I know I can set a number for a two-hour period.

This is also fairly similar to how I carbed up on T-Dawg. Since I was having Surge and a small shot of CHO in my first post-workout meal, I would allow myself to eat whatever I wanted from about 3:00 p.m. until the end of the day every Saturday. This got me as lean as I have ever been, even with all the garbage I ate (and drank) on Saturday. However, I felt like I had to be right on with my macros and nutrient timing during the week.

I prefer the 4:1 approach because I’m eating more fat and increasing satiety. On T-Dawg, I was practically chomping at the bit by the time Saturday rolled around. Right now my calories are below maintenance, but I feel great. We’ll see how it goes.

Zed

Note: For those who are just starting the AD, do not attempt this modification until you have been on the diet for at least 3 months. Including my first run on this diet at the beginning of the year, I have 6-7 months experience with the AD. I know how my body works on this type of diet and think that this may be the route to go for me. A lot of beginners (I was guilty, too) try to make too many changes initially. Just focus on the principles for three months, then you will have a reference point to tweak the diet based on your needs.

Not trying to sound like your third grade teacher. I just want everyone to get the full benefit of this diet. Part of the reason I stopped the first time is that I made so many changes that I just broke down and quit.

3608

Sasha, thankyou for taking the time to help out with this, and u too Alpha and Tribulus.

Here is where I am at:
206lbs

12.5%bf

Training style is changing from slow heavy reps with long rest periods to fast reps with little rest period.

I used to do alot of cardio but I stopped. Now I started again and walk 2.5miles in the morning and then do about 30minutes of cardio after my workout.

CHO loads are very loose. After about 3 days on no carb I can hardly stop myself from eating any carb in sight.

I don’t know what my maintenance level of calories is. I’m 6’5’’ and the other info is above. How do I find out my maintenance calories?

See, I seem to have a very very hard time on this diet. It started out extremely hard for me and I was having trouble staying on it. The two week induction thing nearly killed me over the summer… hehehe. I was skimboarding and falling asleep while trying to cut back on the humongous waves crushing me into the shelly sand. Then I just couldn’t get back on it no matter how hard I tried.

Also, I keep reading horrible things about ketogenic diets. Like they cause long term health problems and whatnot. Are any of these claims true? Thats pretty much the only thing holding me back from this now, I’m almost afraid to make this into a lifestyle change. Currently I can’t eat anything with bread but I can eat sweet potatoes and stuff like that. So that is why Im considering carbs as my fuel source.

Sasha, how long have you been on the diet? And have you noticed any negative affects in health or anything like that?

Also, should I even be worried about that? I want to live a long time, so thats why I’m choosing what may be best for me while I’m young (Currently I’m 19 years old.) I’m just confused with everything I’ve learned from my experience with this and the affects that foods have on my body. Any input would be great. Thanks.

3609

[quote]Bizmark wrote:
Sasha, thankyou for taking the time to help out with this, and u too Alpha and Tribulus…

…Any input would be great. Thanks.[/quote]

Real quick:
The doc says in the book that a small % of people just don’t do well on this diet and even he doesn’t seem to know why. I’m not saying that’s you, but they do exist.

Also this is not a ketogenic diet. It’s a cyclical carb loading diet. Huge difference.

I don’t know about SashaG, but Disc Hoss has been on this diet for 10 years and Ilcazzo for at least 7 and both are in perfect health. Also DH I believe somewhere talked about putting his mother on some version of this type of diet and her cholesterol was very significantly lowered.

However even fully ketogenic diets like Atkins get a bad wrap for non weight training people.

Check http://www.lowcarb.ca for instance.

3610

Hi guys,

I have been on this diet for about 8 weeks now. My goal is fat loss. I’m currently 21% bf and want to be at least 18% (I’m a girl).

I did lose some fat in the first week after induction and then the progress stalled. I’m eating my bw x 12 in calories and although I’m taking HOT-ROX Extreme to support the thyroid I have no appetite anymore and find it difficult to eat even this much.

I’m eating 1.5g of protein per lb which makes it 50% of my calorie intake. 30 g CHO or under and the rest is fat (olive oil, fish oil, nuts, cream)

Di Pasquale said you have to cut the fat if you want to lose weight to make sure that your body burns the stores. What is the minimum level you should still have? I probably have just around 40% of my intake.

I only do 24 hours carb-up as when I tried to do 36 over the weekend I nearly died on Monday. Even after 24 hours I feel very dizzy and weak on Mondays. I will try to go lower GI this weekend.

I’m also doing split routine 4 times per week and 1 cardio session.

I’m going on holiday over Christmas and want to look hot in my bikini. What am I doing wrong? Please help me lose the last fat. I haven’t got much time left.

3611

It sounds like your metabolism might be stalling a bit given the amount of work you are doing on your current caloric intake. I think you should increase your weekly caloric total by about 400-800 calories.

Try eating one CHO meal Sunday night and one CHO meal Wed night – last meal of the day. Keep the CHO away from wheat and fruit. Try oatmeal and quinoa. I would try to get the majority of the additional calories in these two meals.

Since you are doing a split, why not time that split around the CHO meals above. Two days after Sunday; two days after Wed.

I would also increase your PRO percentage by about 5-10% and drop the FAT percentage by about 5-10%.

See how that works for two or so weeks.

3612

[quote]Hello _kitty wrote:
I’m going on holiday over Christmas and want to look hot in my bikini. What am I doing wrong? Please help me lose the last fat. I haven’t got much time left.[/quote]

You know, I think I can help you a bit. I have multiple sisters and have seen them diet, exercise, and the whole hoopla for years. One thing I have seen with them, and have also read I think via Berardi was that women do best with EXERCISING off their fat.

Lowering calories is always a good thing to lose fat, but women are more susceptible to a drop off in metabolism from the thyroid (although it seems you are already aware of this). I have seen this in my sisters too, anecdotally.

My suggestion to you is that you try to get to the gym daily, and if you have the energy and motivation (bare in mind you don’t want to drag yourself down), consider twice a day. Considering an increase in frequency, the CNS load will be fairly high, so focus on fast concentrics (lifts) and don’t emphasize the eccentric (negative).

Regardless of the fact that you are cutting, I would try to stick to lifting heavy weights. This will enable you to not only use shorter rest intervals but should increase some fat burning hormones. It will also shorten your strength training so you can incorporate more CARDIO.

But as far as cardio goes, incorporate more interval training. What I like to do when cutting is get 4 interval training sessions per week on top of my 4 strength workouts. For you, I’d say, just focus on getting in to the gym as often as possible, using heavy weight, short rest intervals, try to constantly keep moving (supersets, tri-sets, circuits, total-body even).

And if you can, get some interval training or cardio after the strength training. And then if you can, go again that day for an intense interval session. FREQUENCY AND INTENSITY.

As far as calories, 12x your bodyweight is low, but I think you should essentially just eat when your body tells you to.

With my sisters, they seemed to be happiest with their bodies when they were exercising very regularly and not actively DIETING (i.e.- purposefully restricting calories). Soooo… EXERCISE intensely and frequently and eat when you are hungry, following the diet parameters. Goodluck.

  • Stu
3613

As a final note…
If you smoke, STOP. I bring this up not only from personal experience, but also from reading your low appetite. Smoking does two detrimental things to your physique: (1) it increases cortisol levels and catabolic activity, which means less body-shaping potential (2) it decreases your body’s ability to put forth max force AND decreases your body’s endurance capacity.

So although smoking may decrease appetite and food intake, it’s HEAVILY outweighed by its hormonal and exercise detriments.

Goodluck.

3614

[quote]Hello _kitty wrote:
Hi guys,…

[/quote]

Hello Hello _Kitty,
I have to be honest. I’ve learned alot since starting this diet, but I don’t have enough precise knowledge to hazard a guess on how to translate this to a girl with your goals. I’m sure you will get answers though and ovalpine has already given some insight.
Welcome aboard in any case.

–Tiribulus->

3615

First I’d like to thay thanks to all those who’re trying to help.

[quote]ovalpline wrote:

My suggestion to you is that you try to get to the gym daily, and if you have the energy and motivation (bare in mind you don’t want to drag yourself down), consider twice a day.
[/quote]

As much as I’d love to I have a full time job and can only do 1 session per day. I have about an hour that I can spare.

…Errr… Can someone pls explain…

Noted. Will eat more. It feels like my appetite is back today anyway. I think it was depressed at the beginning of the week after the carb-up

I don’t smoke. Quit last year.

I will also try two carb meals per week split between Wednesday and Sunday like Vasudeva suggested.

I will keep you posted as to my progress. In the mean time if anyone has any further insights I’d be grateful.

3616

[quote]Hello _kitty wrote:

Considering an increase in frequency, the CNS load will be fairly high, so focus on fast concentrics (lifts) and don’t emphasize the eccentric (negative).

…Errr… Can someone pls explain…

[/quote]

I believe he was speaking primarily about if you did 2x/day workouts, but…in essence he was saying to do explosive lifts (as fast as possible keeping good form) and not worrying about slow lowering.

For example, a chinup. You should try to get up as fast/controlled as possible and then lower yourself at a normal/comfortable speed. Some people want to lower at a very slowwww speed (which has benefits for sure)…but he was suggesting against that.

And I suggest you do listen to vasudeva on his suggestion too…he’s been doing this eating plan for a considerable time too.

I’m afraid I can’t give any more help…

Keep us informed.

AD

3617

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
And I suggest you do listen to vasudeva on his suggestion too…he’s been doing this eating plan for a considerable time too.

AD

[/quote]

Yeah, I didn’t mean to slight vasudeva fer sher.

3618

[quote]Hello _kitty wrote:

As much as I’d love to I have a full time job and can only do 1 session per day. I have about an hour that I can spare.
[/quote]

Totally understandable. I forget that I have a very friendly schedule being that I’m still a college student. But with the hour that you have, you should make the workout as dense as possible. You basically want to be moving at all times, jacking up your heart rate. What does your 4 day split look like right now? We can probably help configure it to reach your goals.

Here is also Poliquin’s fat-loss training, I have found it pretty effective in the past:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=724381

The only thing about Poliquin’s training I mix up is the tempo of the rep (that concentric and eccentric stuff… he goes in to detail about it and will give you the explanation) so that you can work out more frequently (that is, daily). Always try to get in some interval training, it works like magic.

3619

OMG… Just looking at the Poliquin’s programme makes me turn green. :slight_smile:

I don’t think I’m advanced enough for this stuff plus my gym is full of slackers and fat cows so I won’t be able to switch from one station to another.

I was thinking about giving 10 x 3 for fat loss a try. Maybe I can reduce the rest intervals between sets to 30s to make it more intense?

3620

I noticed in one of CT’s articles he mentions how many eat “too much” when trying to gain mass and may be gaining as much fat if not more. He mentions optimal increases per week of .25 to .50 IBS per week. Does the AD have any effect on this concept.

I remember Doc D mentions putting on less fat and maintaining more muscle when cutting due to the AD. To be fair a lot of bodybuilders look very overweight off season and while my main interest is power and strenght I’d like to know if I should aim for large surplus calories or follow CT’s advice?

today’s meals btw

1/ 3 whole eggs 1scoop ON whey, multi, 3 fish oil, psylium husks

2/ 1 8oz burger with plenty of broccholli 3 fish oil caps (was supposed to be 2 burgers but one fell off the grill and i don’t abide by the 5sec rule…much cursing ensued :frowning:

3/1 8oz burger and loads of broccoholli
3fish oil caps
4/ same as above

5/1 scoop of ON Caesin protein (worst tasting chocolate ever)

also was snacking on about 200g of red cheddar as the day went by.

3621

@ OMC:

Here’s my take on the whole bulking/cutting/muscle thing which certainly is not uniquely mine.

Gaining, either for bodybuilding or strength or both takes more calories than you use… period.

While it is certainly true that some people go way overboard while bulking many times it’s not just the number of calories, but what kind they’re eating. In other words it’s used as an excuse to eat junk and the results show.

I contend that most people who train like they mean it will need a concerted effort at getting actually fat on QUALITY CALORIES. Meaning they would almost have to try.

On the other hand trying to be or get “cut” while gaining is a tightrope walk that even if done optimally will drastically slow your gains.

Bottom line? Put up with some reasonable lack of rippedness and grow or aim squarely at being lean and take the rest of your natural life achieving your gains.

SashaG was talking about a “modular” method back a ways where you essentially stagger what you do to stay reasonably lean while gaining that you may want to look at.

I do believe this diet makes it easier to not gain quite as much fat while still making good muscle gains. I’m in the middle of doing that right now. When/if it stops working I’m going to try the modular method.

As for CT’s article, I think it had some valuable info, but was seized upon by new young guys who would do far better by forgetting about their abs for awhile and using their naturally anabolic age to gain now instead of slowly when they could lose whatever fat they picked up in practically no time.

Right now I can see my abs though they’re blurry. On balance at his point I’ve getten no leaner and no fatter, but have however gained the better part of 10 lbs in the 3 months since starting the AD at age 42. I don’t plan on changing anything while the progress continues. I don’t know if all that helped much, but there it is.