A question about the macros Dr. D suggests for carb loading:
Yesterday I ate about 4000 calories, and about 650 grams of carbohydrate. I started to smooth out late last night and halted the carb load. This means my macros pushed my carbohydrate intake to 65% of my total calories, and Dr. D suggests a max of 55%. So the question is: did I violate the carb loading suggestions, or does this simply mean that I would have reached my carb saturation point more quickly?
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
A question about the macros Dr. D suggests for carb loading:
Yesterday I ate about 4000 calories, and about 650 grams of carbohydrate. I started to smooth out late last night and halted the carb load. This means my macros pushed my carbohydrate intake to 65% of my total calories, and Dr. D suggests a max of 55%. So the question is: did I violate the carb loading suggestions, or does this simply mean that I would have reached my carb saturation point more quickly?
It’s not going to hurt at this point. I wouldn’t suggest doing it every carb load, but the very worst that will happen is you lay down a bit of fat which you can get rid of by the end of the week or maybe even sooner. For the first few weeks making sure you get enough fat and not too much cho during the week is most important imho. Also not getting enough cho on the weekends at first is more detrimental than getting too much.
BTW, Welcome to UFpaul and YoungGunner.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
It’s not going to hurt at this point. I wouldn’t suggest doing it every carb load, but the very worst that will happen is you lay down a bit of fat which you can get rid of by the end of the week or maybe even sooner.
[/quote]
lol you are right about that. I do think that I did put on a little bit of fat (although it’s possible I’m underestimating the blur from the excess water I’m holding), but I think I’ll return to my condition of Friday night this past week by Wednesday, meaning that I only “lost” a few days. Eating hypocalorically on this diet is REALLY easy. All last week I took in only about 2200-2400 calories each day, and I had no desire to eat more. Today, after that regretful day of gorging, I’ve eaten just 1800 calories thus far and am about to get a HIIT workout in and one more meal. I should also add that I’m still not used to carrying so much extra water weight after the carb loads. I really do feel a world better come Wednesday morning when I’ve shedded its weight. It also kind of freaks me out and makes me feel like I’ve gained pure fat. I’m sure with more time under my belt I’ll become a much savvier carb-loader and judge of water vs fat gain. Hope everyone enjoys their trips back to low-carb land.
Greetings all. I just thought I would plug some of my favorite AD friendly consumer products.
LaTortilla Factory LoCarb Tortillas
FiberChoice SugarFree Chewables
Fish Oil Capsules
Choc. Cool Whip (a TBLS midweek will stave off any cravings for sweets)
Peace
BuddaBill
[quote]ovalpline wrote:
lol you are right about that. I do think that I did put on a little bit of fat (although it’s possible I’m underestimating the blur from the excess water I’m holding), but I think I’ll return to my condition of Friday night this past week by Wednesday, meaning that I only “lost” a few days. Eating hypocalorically on this diet is REALLY easy. All last week I took in only about 2200-2400 calories each day, and I had no desire to eat more. Today, after that regretful day of gorging, I’ve eaten just 1800 calories thus far and am about to get a HIIT workout in and one more meal. I should also add that I’m still not used to carrying so much extra water weight after the carb loads. I really do feel a world better come Wednesday morning when I’ve shedded its weight. It also kind of freaks me out and makes me feel like I’ve gained pure fat. I’m sure with more time under my belt I’ll become a much savvier carb-loader and judge of water vs fat gain. Hope everyone enjoys their trips back to low-carb land.
I think you have a pretty good grip on where you’re at at this point. Yes, I get some water retention by Sunday night that is gone by Tuesday morning just about every weekend. It used to be worse, but the longer I eat like this, the lower the peaks and the shallower the valleys in all areas.
The only 2 ways you can REALLY screw up during the first several weeks is to get too much cho during the weekdays and or not enough on the weekends on an ongoing basis. Or not getting enough fat on weekdays, also on an ongoing basis. An occasional miss even by alot doesn’t set you back enough to worry about. It’s pretty forgiving. Even getting too much fat on the weekends will only get you a bit of fat gain that should be pretty easy to shed later.
I know I still have plenty left to learn, but all the finer aspects are becoming second nature. Once again, the biggest mistake made that I’ve seen is not giving it enough time.
I have an issue with energy level during my cho load; because of it, I don?t like to go over one day (12 hours) of loading and looking for help. I just feel very sluggish and drowsy through out the load and generally feel very lazy. I am on the go type of guy and this is killing me!
I?ve been ADing for just about 2 months and wondering if the lethargy is something that my body will rid of eventually by adapting to the periodic high cho load or is it something that I need to play around with, in terms of type of carbs?
I am loading with variety, everything from oats and yams to ice creams and pizza. Do you guys think staying clean and lower GI selections of carb will help with the energy level during the load?
thanks in advance for the input - silentquest
[quote]SilentQuest wrote:
I have an issue with energy level during my cho load; because of it, I don?t like to go over one day (12 hours) of loading and looking for help. I just feel very sluggish and drowsy through out the load and generally feel very lazy. I am on the go type of guy and this is killing me!
I?ve been ADing for just about 2 months and wondering if the lethargy is something that my body will rid of eventually by adapting to the periodic high cho load or is it something that I need to play around with, in terms of type of carbs?
I am loading with variety, everything from oats and yams to ice creams and pizza. Do you guys think staying clean and lower GI selections of carb will help with the energy level during the load?
thanks in advance for the input - silentquest[/quote]
my $.02…
For me its definitely ‘trial and error’ STILL! and I’ve been on the AD since April (6-7 mo’s +/-).
I still have a tough time w/ carb loads. I look forward to them along about Thursday …then end up feeling not-so-swell fairly quickly and much as you describe.
I’ve found what works best for me is to ‘graze’ on ‘clean’ carbs all day long. I can’t do a meal -it makes me feel big as a house and twice as slow.
Try fruits and grains…and get your fats in too. That’ll help w/ energy.
A few PB&J sandwiches on good whole grain bread throughout the day do the trick for me.
peace
[quote]SilentQuest wrote:
…Do you guys think staying clean and lower GI selections of carb will help with the energy level during the load?
thanks in advance for the input - silentquest[/quote]
I would start with that. Like Pauli D said too try some different strategies, but solid clean carb foods may make a big difference. I eat squeaky clean carb loads and I still get the heavy eyelids and drowsiness for a little while on Sat. sometimes though.
It was BAD at first. I could barely stay awake, but it has gotten more than tolerable in the last several weeks. If I ate junk food on carb days I can’t imagine what it would do to me. I ate one single Dunkin Munchkin a few weeks ago and it tasted like concentrated gritty sugar and got me nauseous, but I still liked it. I personally just have to keep it clean.
[quote]SilentQuest wrote:
I have an issue with energy level during my cho load; because of it, I don?t like to go over one day (12 hours) of loading and looking for help. I just feel very sluggish and drowsy through out the load and generally feel very lazy. I am on the go type of guy and this is killing me!
I?ve been ADing for just about 2 months and wondering if the lethargy is something that my body will rid of eventually by adapting to the periodic high cho load or is it something that I need to play around with, in terms of type of carbs?
I am loading with variety, everything from oats and yams to ice creams and pizza. Do you guys think staying clean and lower GI selections of carb will help with the energy level during the load?
thanks in advance for the input - silentquest[/quote]
SilentQuest,
When it comes to haziness during the CHO loads, this will reduce as time goes by. In the mean time the best way to deal with it is, as mentioned, to constantly eat throughout the day and moderate your high II/GI indexed foods. Also, take in your EFAs with the CHOs for energy.
Similiar to the weekdays where you seek out EVOO for energy, the same principles apply here. And also, a 12-hour CHO loads is way too short a time frame. You’re most likely inhibiting your gains/improvements in shortening the load period. I would suggest lengthening it really taking your time with your food intake. Remember, it’s not a race or a gorging session.
Hope that helps mate.
Cheers,
Sasha
Thank you for your input SashaG, Tiribulus and Pauli D. So here’s what i am hearing: up my fat level (which im certain it has been low during my load) for energy… stay clean and lower GI with small and frequent meals for longer period of load than my current 12 hr load.
Now I am thinking it is mostly my lower fat intake contributing to my low energy level. I find it difficult to intake fat during the load, other than my usual 3-4g epa/dha from fish oil, and few tbsp of EVOO… how do you guys keep up w/ the fat intake when loading w/ clean and low GI cho food such as oats, yams, potatoes, ww bread or pasta, etc?
[quote]SashaG wrote:
SilentQuest wrote:
I have an issue with energy level during my cho load; because of it, I don?t like to go over one day (12 hours) of loading and looking for help. I just feel very sluggish and drowsy through out the load and generally feel very lazy. I am on the go type of guy and this is killing me!
I?ve been ADing for just about 2 months and wondering if the lethargy is something that my body will rid of eventually by adapting to the periodic high cho load or is it something that I need to play around with, in terms of type of carbs?
I am loading with variety, everything from oats and yams to ice creams and pizza. Do you guys think staying clean and lower GI selections of carb will help with the energy level during the load?
thanks in advance for the input - silentquest
SilentQuest,
When it comes to haziness during the CHO loads, this will reduce as time goes by. In the mean time the best way to deal with it is, as mentioned, to constantly eat throughout the day and moderate your high II/GI indexed foods. Also, take in your EFAs with the CHOs for energy.
Similiar to the weekdays where you seek out EVOO for energy, the same principles apply here. And also, a 12-hour CHO loads is way too short a time frame. You’re most likely inhibiting your gains/improvements in shortening the load period. I would suggest lengthening it really taking your time with your food intake. Remember, it’s not a race or a gorging session.
Hope that helps mate.
Cheers,
Sasha
[/quote]
I have a question for you guys… me and a friend have a bet over who’s gonna have the nicer body by jan 1st. Now neither of us are shabby currently, as we have both been training for a long time… but i know for an absolute fact that all I have to do is go for a couple weeks without carbs and my bodyfat drops dramatically… my question is, do you recommend doing the carbups for these 8 weeks or not doing them? Ive noticed I keep the fat when I do carbups, it might just be because im doing them wrong… but Im willing to do pretty much anything in my diet to win this bet. So I was thinkin maybe every two weeks a carbup or something like that. Has anyone tried this and noticed too much muscle loss over a short period of time? Or will doing this even cause muscle loss? I noticed muscle loss doing this over the summer but I was also running 3 miles daily on an empty stomach as soon as I woke up… so I think that might have had something to do with it. Any feedback would be wonderful. Thanks guys.
[quote]Bizmark wrote:
I have a question for you guys… me and a friend have a bet over who’s gonna have the nicer body by jan 1st. Now neither of us are shabby currently, as we have both been training for a long time… but i know for an absolute fact that all I have to do is go for a couple weeks without carbs and my bodyfat drops dramatically… my question is, do you recommend doing the carbups for these 8 weeks or not doing them? Ive noticed I keep the fat when I do carbups, it might just be because im doing them wrong… but Im willing to do pretty much anything in my diet to win this bet. So I was thinkin maybe every two weeks a carbup or something like that. Has anyone tried this and noticed too much muscle loss over a short period of time? Or will doing this even cause muscle loss? I noticed muscle loss doing this over the summer but I was also running 3 miles daily on an empty stomach as soon as I woke up… so I think that might have had something to do with it. Any feedback would be wonderful. Thanks guys.[/quote]
There is no way I could advocate 8 weeks without a carb load or even more than 2 at a time. Actually once you’re adapted even that would be playing fast and loose with your muscle.
The hormonal response to this would put you into a semi starvation state and you would start chewing up muscle the longer you went without a carb load. Carb loads replenish glycogen, but they also convince your body that it has no shortages thus keeping it happy.
SashaG talked about this in more detail a few pages ago somewhere.
I second Tirib wholeheartedly.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Bizmark wrote:
I have a question for you guys… me and a friend have a bet over who’s gonna have the nicer body by jan 1st. Now neither of us are shabby currently, as we have both been training for a long time… but i know for an absolute fact that all I have to do is go for a couple weeks without carbs and my bodyfat drops dramatically… my question is, do you recommend doing the carbups for these 8 weeks or not doing them? Ive noticed I keep the fat when I do carbups, it might just be because im doing them wrong… but Im willing to do pretty much anything in my diet to win this bet. So I was thinkin maybe every two weeks a carbup or something like that. Has anyone tried this and noticed too much muscle loss over a short period of time? Or will doing this even cause muscle loss? I noticed muscle loss doing this over the summer but I was also running 3 miles daily on an empty stomach as soon as I woke up… so I think that might have had something to do with it. Any feedback would be wonderful. Thanks guys.
There is no way I could advocate 8 weeks without a carb load or even more than 2 at a time. Actually once you’re adapted even that would be playing fast and loose with your muscle.
The hormonal response to this would put you into a semi starvation state and you would start chewing up muscle the longer you went without a carb load. Carb loads replenish glycogen, but they also convince your body that it has no shortages thus keeping it happy.
SashaG talked about this in more detail a few pages ago somewhere.[/quote]
Can anyone give their opinion of pre-bed cottage cheese on the AD? I’ve been doing it just because I have huge tubs of it in the fridge, and it’s just become kinda a pre-bed ritual.
But seriously, does a high-fat diet have enough of a protein-sparing effect to make pre-sleep casein unnecessary or unhelpful? Should I save the 4 carbs for some other time?
[quote]Bizmark wrote:
I have a question for you guys… me and a friend have a bet over who’s gonna have the nicer body by jan 1st. Now neither of us are shabby currently, as we have both been training for a long time… but i know for an absolute fact that all I have to do is go for a couple weeks without carbs and my bodyfat drops dramatically… my question is, do you recommend doing the carbups for these 8 weeks or not doing them? Ive noticed I keep the fat when I do carbups, it might just be because im doing them wrong… but Im willing to do pretty much anything in my diet to win this bet. So I was thinkin maybe every two weeks a carbup or something like that. Has anyone tried this and noticed too much muscle loss over a short period of time? Or will doing this even cause muscle loss? I noticed muscle loss doing this over the summer but I was also running 3 miles daily on an empty stomach as soon as I woke up… so I think that might have had something to do with it. Any feedback would be wonderful. Thanks guys.[/quote]
Bizmark,
8 weeks on very-low carbohydrates is not advisable at all. Aside from all the benefits derived from insulin in maximizing gains and improvements, with weight training, we also need to minimize muscle degradation and moderate cortisol.
It takes approximately 3 full days on little to no carbohydrates to deplete the average glycogen stores. Periods longer than the 5-6 days recommended by Dr. D runs you those risks.
Some quick questions to help you achieve your goal . . .
Current weight?
Approx. BF%?
Training style?
Are you at maintenance level calories or above?
Cardio?
Type of CHO loads (clean vs. loose)?
Once we know these elements we can pull something together to achieve your goals.
Cheers,
Sasha
[quote]dashforce wrote:
Can anyone give their opinion of pre-bed cottage cheese on the AD? I’ve been doing it just because I have huge tubs of it in the fridge, and it’s just become kinda a pre-bed ritual.
But seriously, does a high-fat diet have enough of a protein-sparing effect to make pre-sleep casein unnecessary or unhelpful? Should I save the 4 carbs for some other time?[/quote]
This diet is enormously protein sparing, but I still eat a few spoonfuls of cottage cheese before bed. I usually eat a 750mg antacid with it for the calcium which complements the calcium in the cottage cheese. I also love cottage cheese :]
[quote]SilentQuest wrote:
Thank you for your input SashaG, Tiribulus and Pauli D. So here’s what i am hearing: up my fat level (which im certain it has been low during my load) for energy… stay clean and lower GI with small and frequent meals for longer period of load than my current 12 hr load.
Now I am thinking it is mostly my lower fat intake contributing to my low energy level. I find it difficult to intake fat during the load, other than my usual 3-4g epa/dha from fish oil, and few tbsp of EVOO… how do you guys keep up w/ the fat intake when loading w/ clean and low GI cho food such as oats, yams, potatoes, ww bread or pasta, etc?
[/quote]
I didn’t even catch the 12 hour carb load part, definitely too short, especially early on. Once you get dialed in you can play with all kinds of things including the length of the load, but for the first several weeks I’d stick pretty close to the book.
For fats I usually keep some boiled eggs on hand and eat one as a snack occasionally throughout the day. I also put some butter on my potatoes, sweet potatoes or steamed veggies. The evoo and fish oil caps are quick and convenient too. A quick tbsp of evoo is 120 calories. I also get chicken thighs for 88cents a pound and use those for a some protein and some fat.
Once you’re several weeks past initial adaptation energy will rarely be an issue. Even if you go a little low on dietary fat once in a while you still have your stores for fuel. It’s been a while since I had any appreciable energy issues now.
[quote]SilentQuest wrote:
Thank you for your input SashaG, Tiribulus and Pauli D. So here’s what i am hearing: up my fat level (which im certain it has been low during my load) for energy… stay clean and lower GI with small and frequent meals for longer period of load than my current 12 hr load.
Now I am thinking it is mostly my lower fat intake contributing to my low energy level. I find it difficult to intake fat during the load, other than my usual 3-4g epa/dha from fish oil, and few tbsp of EVOO… how do you guys keep up w/ the fat intake when loading w/ clean and low GI cho food such as oats, yams, potatoes, ww bread or pasta, etc?
[/quote]
…As Trib mentioned -eggs are a good source of fat. Make yourself some “Chicken-fried-rice” --plenty of carbs, a little chicken protein and some eggs for fat.
Add some heavy cream to your oats -butter and/or EVOO on the yams, potatoes, bread and pasta.
Peanut butter is magic for me… it goes in my oats, on whole grain bread, PWO shakes (w/two bananas and some milk)…good stuff!
The carb-loads can have wonderful variety 
peace
Tirib/Sasha G/etc.,
Just looking on a little input on Poliquin’s 4:1 carb cycling recommendations.
Basically, I’m wondering what you guys think an adequate number of CHO is for the cheat meal Poliquin recommends every fifth day. If I were to take a stab at a minimum to start, I would say 300 g CHO. Basically, it’ll be about 75% clean (oats, whole-wheat pasta, etc.) with a couple of treats thrown in to make up the rest.
I will say that I am getting a little over 30g CHO on the four other days, but this is due to a huge addition of green veggies. My other incidentals are identical to when I kept it to 30g or less per day. I think extra veggies will do nothing but positive things for me. Goals are to lose maximum bodyfat while continuing to make the strength increases I’ve seen while starting my body recomp.
This thread, along with the Brotherhood of Iron thread, is probably my favorite on this site. Your input is highly respected and greatly appreciated.
Zed