My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
3302

Some may disagree with ths, but I’m the ultimate pragmatist. I’m for doing whatever works. If your results are not moving in the direction you wanted, make the adjustments necessary to compensate. In the section under “special modifications” the doc DOES say, pages 65-66 (emphasis his):

[quote]Dr. DiPasquale wrote:
And, as if the diet wasnt simple enough, theres also a great deal of flexibility built into it. Its made to order for THE INDIVIDUAL. We know that each person is different, both physically and psychologically. You cant give everyone the same exact diet and expect them to all respond in the same manner to it.

Thats why weve urged you to experiment with the diet in earlier chapters. If used properly, it will get you into contest shape better than any diet youve tried before. What Ive done is give you the basic principles of the diet. Its up to you to mold and shape the fine points of its operation to your own unique physique and mind.
In fact, any part of this diet can be modified to fit the needs of the individual, as long as you stay in the fat burning mode. What I suggest is that you stick to the diet as spelled out in the book very rigidly for the first 2 months. Youll need that long to learn about the diet and how your body responds to it. You may want to adjust your caloric intake at times during those 2 months, but you should stick to the basics for 60 days.

At that point youll have gone through the metabolic shift to a fat-burning chemistry and become comfortable with the diet. Then your personal modifications of the diet can begin. Youll be experimenting to see just how your body responds to different adjustments in the diet. Youll also find yourself having fun. As you progress and accurately track your progress through monitoring bodyfat percentages, weight, appearance, and calorie ratios between fat, protein, and carbs, youll be able to refine the diet to best achieve your individual goals.
[/quote]

–Tiribulus->

3303

i don’t know if it is true or not (or maybe just true for certain people), but you may just be able to eat more cals eating low carb. Just find the calories that work right for you on this way of eating.

3304

[quote]msundi83 wrote:
i don’t know if it is true or not (or maybe just true for certain people), but you may just be able to eat more cals eating low carb. Just find the calories that work right for you on this way of eating.[/quote]

Just on my limited experience I tend to agree. It would take a little work to figure it exactly, but I’m certain that I’m eating more calorie wise now than before and I’ve gotten leaner. Probably has to do with the metabolic cost of processing manfood as opposed to all the cho I was eating before as well as hormonal changes.

On that note, I think I’m right at about maintenance now or a little above and I think I’ll stay there for a while and see what happens. I’ve put on a coupla few pounds of muscle lately and I’m likin that. I set out to get leaner, but strength is addictive. I’m curious to see where I get over the next few months.

On yet another note, the cardio (energy system work) is ancillarily becoming easier and easier. Today’s was approaching effortless compared to just a couple weeks ago. It was over before I knew it and my standing heart rate went down to normal within a couple minutes. I think my system is getting better at using fats for fuel all the time, but of course aerobic capacity is increasing as well which is probably not directly related.

–Tiribulus->

3305

An excerpt from the thread that follows the “Truth about Bulking” article by CT:

CT wrote:
Dr. Mauro DiPasquale said pretty much the same thing in his latest book ‘‘The anabolic solution’’. Pro bodybuilder George Farah (also a very popular prep guru) recommends the same too. But both said that 10% is the ideal percentage to stay at.

monkeyarms wrote:
“. . .For gaining weight, I use a very narrow fat window. I suggest that you start your weight-gain program when your bodyfat is 9% or lower. Needless to say, many individuals who’d like to gain weight will be disappointed to learn that they should actually go on a weight-loss diet before embarking on a bulking phase. The fat window slams shut (in my opinion) at 12% bodyfat. At this point, you should either hold your bodyfat at the 12% mark for a while or diet back down to 9% for another bulking phase. . .”
-Dan Duchaine

Any thoughts on this? While it’s nearly impossible for me to know my BF (due to the fact that they don’t use calipers here, they use that machine you hold and squeeze at arms length), I’m rethinking things now that CT mentions Doc D.

Anyone know anything about this? Can someone find what Doc D says in the Anabolic Solution?

3306

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Anyone know anything about this? Can someone find what Doc D says in the Anabolic Solution?[/quote]

I only have the Anabolic Diet (do you have that BTW?). He says there 15% above ideal weight or 10% bodyfat whichever comes first is the ending point for a mass phase. He has in all caps p.39 “20-25 CALORIES PER POUND OF BODYWEIGHT DESIRED EVERY DAY” , but then says you can get away with multiplying this by 7 and allow for daily fluctuations as long as you reach the weekly total.

DH said way back in this thread that there’s no substantive difference worth mentioning between the 2 books. Anyone who knows the word “tome” will get it figured out :-]

–Tiribulus->

3307

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
AlphaDragon wrote:
Anyone know anything about this? Can someone find what Doc D says in the Anabolic Solution?

I only have the Anabolic Diet (do you have that BTW?). He says there 15% above ideal weight or 10% bodyfat whichever comes first is the ending point for a mass phase. He has in all caps p.39 “20-25 CALORIES PER POUND OF BODYWEIGHT DESIRED EVERY DAY” , but then says you can get away with multiplying this by 7 and allow for daily fluctuations as long as you reach the weekly total.

DH said way back in this thread that there’s no substantive difference worth mentioning between the 2 books. Anyone who knows the word “tome” will get it figured out :-]

–Tiribulus->

[/quote]

i agree so much with u i read all ur post and they make so much sense …iam on the ad for say more then 4 months now …and i never kept a log of what iam writing which i in no way suggest any 1 to follow …i dont follow a log because in india we dont gte foods with labels …were u know how muhc u are eating …

i go with standard things …like 2 teaspoon of butter 4 organic eggs and any vegetable made home as my breakfast sometimes if i feel i adda whey shake with some flaxseed powder also. and one thing i make sure is …after the carb meal the next day i eat less the whole day mostly try and take shakes and fish oil capsules.

and like disc hoss had recomened me …i take only 2 carb meals in a week one is on wed night and 1 is on sunday night . so far on the ad for 4 months i can say 1 has to never worry on the vegetables intake u can reaaly go crazy on lettuce and brocoli and mushrooms and spinach …not only they will help to maintain nice ph levels but also the fiber in it plays a great role for ur bowel momments

if u see the diet menu in the book doc also suggest 1 slice of bread also …the whole issue is to keep the carbs less then 30gms so we dont have any insulin spiking . again i never also did any cardio yet got leaner and yes the workouts which i do are in super set fashion with minimal rest and as days went they became more and faster .

and we can also know what is going in our body what happens when we eat certain of foods having a close watch can tell us what to omit and what to keep …is like training now in my gym every 1 does 3 days weight training in a week …i do 4 and also do 5 times in a week and doing 5 times a week has reaaly given me a more harder dense and thick look …though wont coutinue that for too long …

and i do belibe Chad Waterbury’s and Vince Girondas principles they are reaaly amazing fast workouts not to failure and working out very often …i just came back from my tour from usa and canada …and i screwed up a little means i tried going 60 to 70gms a carbs a day …it did give me some mind blowing pumps …and great strenght but now iam back on 30gms limit .

just felt like sharing my views …hope no 1 minds it thanking every 1 for keeping this thread going -raviraj

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by the way freinds…i use many principles of vince gironda …the best was the neck press for chest …belive me i had the best of chest development by doing neck presses instead of the regular bench press …and his shoulder routines helped me a lot also …and the ebst part is his diet principles are the same as ad …anybody even thinking of using the neck press pls go for it …thats a mind blowing excercise just my 2 cents

3309

I’ve been doing the 20-25 cals per pound of bodyweight desired every day. But I think I messed up here.

(Yes, I do have the AD book…perhaps it’s time to go and refresh the memory).

I didn’t take bodyfat levels into account. If a mass phase ends at 10%, we should get to 10% first, I guess…and prhaps I misunderstod “20-25cals per pound of bodyweight desired” thing too. I took that as if someone wanted to be 200 (from 175 roughly, for example)we’d be doing 200x20 to 200x25. Perhaps it’s only meant to be maintenance cals + desired LBM gain x20-25.

…back to the book again.

3310

Alpha:
Don’t worry so much about the formula, just try to get a feel for the diet and how it affects you. My initial phase was to lose fat which I did. I then wanted to gain some weight so I upped the calories to about 3200/day which is under the recommended amount of about 3600.

It was still a steady gain over about four weeks and now I am just trying to shed a few pounds before I start it all over again. I may add some calories to that and see what happens. I have a long time to figure this out; there is no rush since I am not using this as a temporary measure but for the long term. Experiment. It’s kinda like getting a haircut - you can always return if you don’t like the results.

3311

Hey AD team,

Glad to see lots of discussion surrounding CT’s latest article.

In terms of bulking, like everything on the AD, you very much need to set your approach and modify it based on your body’s response. With Dr. D’s guidelines for bulking, it is difficult to implement if you’re not already in the condition that is prescribed (I.e. 10% BF). If you’re not there, then 20-25 times body weight may be a little extreme in terms of a mass phase. This is definitely the case when a lot of us may have been over-extending ourselves in a prolonged cutting phase. So what do we do?

Well, my suggestion would be to take a moderated approach to the increase in calories. If you’ve been cutting at 15-16 times BW, week by week gradually up your calorie intake and gauge how your body responds. Not making progress, up your calories. The waist line starts increasing too fast, then ease back a bit. I’m also of the mindset of shortening the cycles between cutting and bulking to force my body to constantly adapt to the external pressures of my training and diet.

Other things worth trying. If you are following a hypertrophy program that is quite taxing on your glycogen stores, try a mid-week carb spike to keep you going. We can also look at the CHO loads and its duration to further improve lean mass gain. Your weekly fat to protein ratio can also be manipulated. As you increase your calorie intake, try upping your fat to protein ratio for an improved hormonal environment.

The thing to remember is while the AD is unique from an energy systems approach, we can still look to other nutrition principles as a guide on how to achieve our goals. Set your goals, apply your theories, gauge your body’s response, learn and re-apply. Troubleshooting is what the folks are here for.

Cheers,

Sasha

3312

[quote]raviraj wrote:
i agree so much with u i read all ur post and they make so much sense …
[/quote]

I do appreciate this, but please notice that I spend a lot of time deferring and referring to other more experienced guys as I’m right in the middle of learning all this myself. You must have it really rough not having food labels. One of the areas where our obsession with new laws has actually been useful over here in America.

–Tiribulus->

3313

Okay AD bretheren,

Truth hurts, I guess.

I was getting 3800-4200 cals/day until today.

That article by CT got me thinking about changing stuff up…and Sashas post kinda drove it home.

-good to see ya again Sasha, btw.

My current stats:

165 lbs
21% bf. (they use that crappy method, but regardless, it’s not 10% or under).

So I’m going to go with the assumption my LBM=about 132 lbs (ACK…that’s what I mean by truth hurting…A frickin lot).

So I gotta get to about 10% bf, huh? So this is going to be my newest attempt…

Maintance for my lbm is approx 2000 cal.
To maintain a 10%bf is approx 146lbs

So 146x15=2190 cals/day. (That’s it???..I’m so used to nearly 4000/day, I’m going to starve SO often).

So, does that seem like to little to anyone else but me?

Remember, I’m going to try for that 10%.

Crap…now I’m “Aiming” for being a 150lb skinny dude…. Man, that sucks.

Any thoughts? And, should I just jump into it or drop gradually? Today I dropped to about 3300 cals.

3314

Greetings all…hopefully your AD’ing goes well.

I still say that individualization is the key with the AD after you get started. I also tend to agree with CT’s article and the tendency to easily over do calories.

Right now i’ve been going for a lower calories approach because it seems to be the one thing thats always worked well for me in the past. This time however, I’m working according to the AD and varying my caloric levels each day. So far its been great and it seems to be working.

However, like posted earlier, it’d be alot easier to know how well we’re doing if we’re at that 10% level. I have a long way to go, but I assume that at that point I should be able to see the changes I make and edit them accordingly to continue progress. So again, indivualization will come into play.

Good luck all!

3315

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Any thoughts? And, should I just jump into it or drop gradually? Today I dropped to about 3300 cals.
[/quote]

Sasha would know better than me, but the book says if you’re trying get leaner to start by cutting a grand a day for the first week and 500 more the second and see how you respond. That’s assuming a mass phase level beforehand.

At 21% I would think you could continue to make SOME gains while getting leaner though, especially on this diet. If it was me I’d be somewhat careful with my muscle. It would be pretty easy to go too hard into cutting and lose more than you have to. Again, especially when it’s easier to preserve it on this type of diet.

Just as a friendly observation. You strike me as being an impulsive type of guy who maybe would do well to slow down and be a little more patient. We’ve never met and I’m going only by what can be gleaned from this forum. I don’t mean to sound like your mama and only say that with the most constructive intent.

You just seem like you’re hurrying yourself. One of the things CT talks about in his bulking article. For what it’s worth.

Along these lines I really need to get a body composition analysis done. I’ve lost 30 pounds raw in the last 6 months, but I’m bigger. It’s killin me not knowing exactly where I’m at.

–Tiribulus->

3316

Speak of the devil :smiley:

3317

Hi Guys, I joined the AD club two weeks ago but haven’t really had anything to say or ask till now. I?ve read the entire thread and the AD in .pdf and have got a couple of questions if you don’t mind.

Stats:
41, 5’11", 183lbs, bodyfat probably around 11-12%. Tanita athletic mode and calipers both put me at 9-9.5%, but I’m not that low. While I’ve got a decent 4-pack, I’ve also got a respectable pair of love handles and some belly button fat too. I DO CARE what my bodyfat is, but I’m more concerned with the mirror than the number. The mirror is telling me I’ve got 3-4 kg of fat to lose.

I did a clean cut (fancy way to say I dieted) from last September to February and lost about 40lbs, then from March til now I lost another 10 or so. Haven’t really been trying, but I have been at a HUGE calorie deficit because I work out 3-5 days a week and play tennis 10-15 hours on top of that.

I’d like to drop the love handles and last bit of fat and slowly add muscle. Ideally, I’d like to gain 5-10 lbs of muscle and lose 5-10 of fat. I don’t really want to lose weight and either does my body it seems… I’ve been restricting calories so long that I think I might be better off “bulking” up a few pounds.

I’ve been eating very clean, I just don’t eat enought to compensate for the hours of tennis and at the gym. On vacation I did some massive eating and didn’t add a pound. And I mean Club Med buffet eating for 2 weeks with full plates of deserts at both lunch and dinner.

I was hitting 4-5000 cals a day and I didn’t gain a pound. I thought this would have “reset” my metabolism, but maybe not…

My first 10 days on the AD where about like others have experienced. I felt run down like I was getting the flu for 4-5 days, slighlty foggy, had 2 mornings that I had to take a nap, etc. Cals were 18xBW with 65-70% from fats and I’ve kept protein to around 1g/lb of BW.

I eat 25-30g a day of carbs ALL from spinach, broccoli, brussel sprouts, dark green leaf lettuce, nuts, eggs, and cheese. Like Hoss said, I’ve checked everything that goes in my mouth (air is free). I won’t even eat sausage unless I see there is no dextrose added.

I lost 2 lbs the first couple of days and since then have stayed the same weight (+/- 2 lbs), even on the carb up.

This week my energy levels have been pretty good and I’m feeling just fine.

Questions:

  1. I’m trying my carb up Fri evening after dinner (just red wine), all day Saturday and then Sunday morning. I resumed no carb after breakfast on Sunday. Is that cool? It’s just a little over 36 hours.

2.Last Sat I got in 305g of carb and Sun morning another 175g. I hit 45% carb which Mauro gave as a guideline. Is that enough?

  1. My second carb up is this weekend. I was thinking about dropping cals to 14xBW next week. Would it be better to stay at 16-18x for a longer time before dropping? Does my metabolism need more resetting?

  2. I?m hitting the gym 4-5 times a week for an hour or so, only warm up cardio. Tennis is probably a form of HIIT and I play at least 10 hours a week. Am I doing too much to get the proper benefits from the AD?

Grazie

3318

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
Okay AD bretheren,

Truth hurts, I guess.

I was getting 3800-4200 cals/day until today.

That article by CT got me thinking about changing stuff up…and Sashas post kinda drove it home.

-good to see ya again Sasha, btw.

My current stats:

165 lbs
21% bf. (they use that crappy method, but regardless, it’s not 10% or under).

So I’m going to go with the assumption my LBM=about 132 lbs (ACK…that’s what I mean by truth hurting…A frickin lot).

So I gotta get to about 10% bf, huh? So this is going to be my newest attempt…

Maintance for my lbm is approx 2000 cal.
To maintain a 10%bf is approx 146lbs

So 146x15=2190 cals/day. (That’s it???..I’m so used to nearly 4000/day, I’m going to starve SO often).

So, does that seem like to little to anyone else but me?

Remember, I’m going to try for that 10%.

Crap…now I’m “Aiming” for being a 150lb skinny dude…. Man, that sucks.

Any thoughts? And, should I just jump into it or drop gradually? Today I dropped to about 3300 cals.

[/quote]

AlphaDragon,

A couple quick ones . . .

  1. Have you been eating at maintenance or above for the past 4 weeks?

  2. What type of training have you been doing?

What I think would be best is to modularise your fat loss plan. What I mean by this is progressively diet for 4-5 weeks, gradually dropping your calories, then take 2-3 weeks where you’re gradually upping your calories. So given that you’re at 4000 now, week one would look like 3500, week two 3000, week 3 and 4 2500, then either drop 500 for one more week or, if you’re feeling really depleted and not seeing continuous improvement, then bump week 5 up to 2750, week 6 3000 and week 7 between 3250 and 3500.

For weeks 1-4 (or 5) reduce your fat percentage and up your protein intake. When you start to increase your cals again, reverse it. Carb ups should remain clean, controlled and relatively short in duration. I would follow Lyle MacDonald’s recommendations from 3 or 4 pages ago.

As for training, for weeks 1-4 (or 5 if you choose to conitnue reducing calories) focus on a combination of strength training (think 5x5s, wave loading, etc.) and HIIT. Once you start increasing your calories again, hypertrophy time. Up your rep range to the 6-12 mark, drop your sets, drop your rest time, use supersets, giant sets, etc.

HIIT is always a good move but if you’re doing cardio after training, I would just focus on steady state as your heart rate will be nicely elevated from the hypertrophy training.

What we’re trying to do with this is maintain if not increase your strength levels while constantly evolving your calorie intake. What you want with a fat loss program is constant flux. Whether it would be up or down, we want change, not a steady state.

The most important thing is to monitor your progress. If this doesn’t work, then change it. The key to any program, diet or whatever is personalisation.

Hope that helps.

Sasha

3319

[quote]TigerJim wrote:

Questions:

  1. I’m trying my carb up Fri evening after dinner (just red wine), all day Saturday and then Sunday morning. I resumed no carb after breakfast on Sunday. Is that cool? It’s just a little over 36 hours.
    [/quote]

It’s 100% cool if it’s working for you. The 36 hours is just a recommendation but given the amount of calories you’ve been taking in on your CHO loads, you should be fine. Which leads me to . . .

This seems extremely low, especially given how lean you are and the amount of activity you partake in. I would up your loads for certain.

I don’t believe that it’s a matter of resetting your metabolism as much as it is allowing your body the time to adjust to the AD way of eating. I would continue to eat at maintenance and really allow the metabolic shift to settle.

Activity levels is a personal thing and has very little impact on the mechanics of the AD. What I mean by this is just because you are on the AD it does not mean you cannot do a certain amount of activity. The only implications of all this activity is the impact on your caloric intake. This is exactly to the point of the individual who was talking about aerobics class training.

All in all, looks good from here. This is just my point of view really so try it out and modify based on how you feel.

Cheers,

Sasha

3320

[quote]SashaG wrote:
TigerJim wrote:

  1. My second carb up is this weekend. I was thinking about dropping cals to 14xBW next week. Would it be better to stay at 16-18x for a longer time before dropping? Does my metabolism need more resetting?

I don’t believe that it’s a matter of resetting your metabolism as much as it is allowing your body the time to adjust to the AD way of eating…

Cheers,

Sasha

[/quote]

I would like to 2nd, third and fourth this. Sufficient time is critical. My energy, workout strength, sleep etc, was all over the place until a few weeks in. I can’t imagine most guys even having much to base judgements on in the first month. I have just in the past week started to “smooth out” to where I can predict how I’m going to feel day to day and where my cals should be.

–Tiribulus->

3321

Thanks Sasha and Tribulus.

I’ll just stay between 16 and 18x for a few more weeks and see how things settle in. As long as I’m not gaining fat, there is no reason to adjust anyway. I guess I’m just impatient to get rid of the handles.

Overall I really like the AD lifestyle and am feeling pretty good. It would seem that my body responds very well to an AD type diet. During the week I don’t get those highs and lows I was getting… and I feel more “solid” even if the weight stays the same.

Anyone else enjoy the lo-carb phase of the diet more than the carb up?