My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
2842

Finished my CHO weekend and just had my first workout. I decided to start Waterbury’s Summer Project. Workout went fairly well, and I pushed hard, but I didn’t notice the crazy pump that is supposed to happen. Maybe it was just the workout parameters. I’ve noticed reduced bodyfat, even though I eat when I’m hungry.

Friday I tried some interval sprints, but that didn’t last too long. I had a 10 minute warm-up and then sprinted the straights and walked the curves for another 10 minutes. I was going to jog 2 more laps to cool down, but after the first I felt like I was going to die, so I stopped. I’m guessing the WSP protocol won’t really work for me as it has HIIT workouts between lifting.

2843

[quote]SashaG wrote:
conorh wrote:
Well guys and gals, I just had my first real carb up in a long time. I’ve been straying and eating crap food frequently enough that I’ve forgone the carb up for a while, but I had an awesome couple weeks in fat fueled heaven so after a strongman contest saturday I rocked 150 grams of dextrose in a pwo shake, then attacked a fast food joint and finished with a trip to a buffet and a birthday cake for my Pop.

Then, yesterday I bought a cheap charcoal grill and smoked up an entire 7 pound pork loin. My God, it’s the best thing I’ve ever had in my life. I’ve ordered barbecue in three Southern states that couldn’t compare to this. Needless to say I’m in heaven.

At any rate, I’ve got a question about cheese. I’ve always eaten it basically indiscriminantly, but I’ve heard talk lately about it being insulinogenic, so I’ve limited it to early mornings and post workouts. Any truth to this? I also have a mad appetitie for cheese and could probably eat a pound a day if I had ad libitum access, so this sensible rationing is a good idea anyway, I was just curious about the insulin aspect. Any ideas?

Rock on,

Conor

Conor,

I think that this insulin response associated with cheese is a little over estimated. I’ve read studies that showed that consuming high fat/high protein/little to no CHO based foods like cheese and steak register a 0 on the Glycemic index making it a guilt free pleasure on the AD.

I believe where the confusion comes in was in one of the few studies done on the Insulin Index (II), which most people use as their point of resource, had foods like meat and cheese actually iliciting an insulin response when consumed. Cheese actually scored a GI of 55 and an II score of 45. And get this, fish, a GI of 28 and an II of 59!!!

Now before you all fall into an insulin induced coma, there’s a catch. The people they tested had been fasting for 10-12 hours prior to consuming these foods and ingested 1000 k-cals of each food. Taking Mini Babybel’s as an example, to hit 1000 calories you would need to consume 300 grams of cheese in one sitting. That’s almost 15 mini babybels. If you consume 1000 cals of cheese and don’t ilicit some sort of biological response, you may want to check to see if you’re breathing.

In my opinion, low/no CHO cheeses have the green light with me . . . any time, anywhere.

Cheers,

Sasha
[/quote]

It just occurred to me while reading your thoughtful and well written reply that you probably also have a concurrent rise in glucagon with the insulin release from eating cheese, steak, etc. making the net effect more neutral then the II alone would lead one to believe.

Thanks all,

Conor

2844

Well, I was going to make today my official start day, but I’ve been doing so well keeping it together since last monday–my test week–that I just went for it and kept it together over the weekend so the 12 days would go faster.

I’d been eating mostly meat and veggies, with less fat and some oatmeal most mornings, so i’m wondering if perhaps i’ll transition more easily. So far, I’m pretty sure I’ve noticed a boost in performance and libido, not to mention generally feeling better, but I wasnt sure if it was the diet or more calories–as I doubt i was eating enough before. I have had a couple days where I could’ve easily slipped into a dead sleep after work, but usually I still managed. My mood’s been good despite it all.

Anyway, started at 288 and was 283 Friday morning, 285 today. I did slip up a little Saturday night during a pre-existing dinner date with friends, but I did my best to keep it in check. This shouldn’t offset the switchover, should it?

Pretty interesting so far though. I’ve only been annoyed by the 2g carbs per scoop of pro. powder adding up over the day to 12-14g and the gas the broccoli seems to bring. Otherwise, I’m not counting my fibrous veggies and its been mostly those, meats, p. powder, olive and fish oil, milled flax seeds, a little cheese, and eggs.

2845

[quote]SashaG wrote:
BCAAs
Walnuts
Brazil Nuts
EFA supps - Flax oil, Fish oils
Metabolic Drive
Shaker cup
R-ALA (for CHO loads)

Things to buy when you land:

Natural Peanut butter
Olive Oil
Variety of Deli meats (Turkey, chicken, pastrami, roast beef, etc.)
Smoked Salmon

You’ll find that the US has a ton of low-carb foods and an even better access to the supplements we can’t get over here.

Anyway, these are the things I would take with me if I had the choice.

Cheers,

Sasha
[/quote]

True that! Eating AD style on the road is by far the easiest experience. Restaurants “get” low-carb, but explaining “no oil/butter on the steak, and then steamed veggies only with no oil on that either, and can I get the sauce on the side” can become tiresome and redundant, especially if you’re in a group.

Quick question Sasha, what’s the benefit of using R-ALA on the carb ups?

2846

Here’s a very informative post by CT over in his New Thib Zone thread in the Author’s Locker Room:

This is a good approach, and one that I used in the past. I also used a 3/1 cycle. When carbing up every 3 or 4 days instead of every 5-6 days I suggest not carbing up as much and staying mainly with clean carbs. I would recommend no more than one “junk carbs” meal (none is preferable) on the carb-up day and around 300-400 total carbs for that day.

I suggest starting the carb up with fruits (to refill liver glycogen ASAP). The best choices being:

  • pineapple
  • mangoe
  • papaya
  • orange
  • peaches
  • cherries
  • any type of berries

These should be your only carb source in your first carb up meal for a total of around 50g of carbs (which comes up to around 3 portions of fruit).

The second carb up meal should be based mostly on complex carbs that are absorbed relatively fast … rice, potatoes, bagels, waffles, whole wheat pasta or bread, etc. As well as one portion of fruit. Around 75-100g of carbs from rice, potatoes, etc and 15-25g from fruits.

The third and fourth carb up meals should be based on both fast-absorbed complex carbs and slow-absorbed complex carbs (50g of carbs from each). Slow-absorbed carbs in that meal could include sweet potatoes, oatmeal, yams, cream of wheat, veggies, etc.

The fifth carb up meal should be based mostly on veggies of all sorts, 50-75g of carbs from veggies.

If you want a true “junk carb meal” have it early in the day.

Olde English 800 wrote:
Thib,

Here’s the deal. I just ended two year diet that has left me a little over 100 pounds lighter. As you would imagine I’m a little leary of any “mass” diets. I train primarily for performance and would like to reach my old levels of strength and ultimately surpass them.

My plan is to try a modified version of DiPasquale’s Anabolic Diet, four days on and one day off. I think this would be ideal for me because I lift on a five day cycle too. Cleans, squats, and deads fall on day one. Rest day two. Benches, rows, and triceps on day three. Rest days four and five. Repeat, with my carb-up period being on day one.

Any suggestions? Thank you for your time!

2847

I have a question maybe you all can help me out here…

Prior to this, i was on a Carb-cycling or TKD kind of diet. Still it was kind of carb based because my fat intake is prety low. During an experiment on a bulk, i realised i function EXTREMLY well on FATS as my source of energy. Hence, which prompt me to try high fat diets.

Presently i am on CKD, which is EXCATLY like the AD. 65% fats/5% carbs/30% protein, as well as the recommended 30g of carbs per day. Hence, pardon me if i am wrong. There is no difference to both diets? I mean, look at the split. Yet one suggests to look for ketosis and one suggests you shouldnt… even though ratio and amount of carbs is the same.

The only difference i can see between the 2 diets is that the CKD cut requires a depletion workout.

I am currently cutting on 2300 calories… prepping for a photoshoot.

2848

[quote]zdrax wrote:
True that! Eating AD style on the road is by far the easiest experience. Restaurants “get” low-carb, but explaining “no oil/butter on the steak, and then steamed veggies only with no oil on that either, and can I get the sauce on the side” can become tiresome and redundant, especially if you’re in a group.

Quick question Sasha, what’s the benefit of using R-ALA on the carb ups? [/quote]

zdrax,

From what I’ve read, along with the plethora of fantastic anti-oxidant benefits R-ALA supplementation delivers, it also improves insulin sensitivity.

Although following the AD and other variations of it will naturally improve your body’s insulin sensitivity, when we’re saturating the body with CHOs on our load days, we’re creating a very an anabolic environment where we have a lot of glycogen flowing through our body.

R-ALA is simply a supplement that helps to enhance our body’s ability to synthesize glycogen (I.e. shuttle it into our muscles) and oxidize excesses (I.e. preventing it being stored as fat). In my eyes, R-ALA is a fantastic supplement for early loads on the AD as well as those folks who are cutting. It’s more of a safeguard against over consumption of CHOs.

So some people may be wondering, why R-ALA vs. regular ALA. Well, the reason is certain studies have shown that ALA supplements that are comprised of 50% S-ALA and 50% R-ALA (which most are), the S-ALA actually negates a lot of the benefits derived from R-ALA. Also, R-ALA naturally occurs in the body making it much more potent when supplemented in isolation of S-ALA.

If you want to read an interesting abstract on R-ALA effectiveness on fat rats check out this link:

Hope that helps but if not, let me know.

Cheers,

Sasha

2849

[quote]MeLo wrote:
I have a question maybe you all can help me out here…

Prior to this, i was on a Carb-cycling or TKD kind of diet. Still it was kind of carb based because my fat intake is prety low. During an experiment on a bulk, i realised i function EXTREMLY well on FATS as my source of energy. Hence, which prompt me to try high fat diets.

Presently i am on CKD, which is EXCATLY like the AD. 65% fats/5% carbs/30% protein, as well as the recommended 30g of carbs per day. Hence, pardon me if i am wrong. There is no difference to both diets? I mean, look at the split. Yet one suggests to look for ketosis and one suggests you shouldnt… even though ratio and amount of carbs is the same.

The only difference i can see between the 2 diets is that the CKD cut requires a depletion workout.

I am currently cutting on 2300 calories… prepping for a photoshoot.
[/quote]

You know, I’ve wondered the same thing about a depletion workout. I know that this has come up in the thread somewhere before and that the argument has something to do with the amount of time you keep your muscle filled after a refeed, but for those of us most interested in cutting I’d think that a depletion workout a day or two after a refeed would be a good idea. Since it’d get us back into regular fat burning more immediately. Or maybe that was the point made earlier in the thread, that once we’re burning fat, we continue to burn fat and therefore a depletion workout doesnt matter. Hmm…I’m not sure. Sorry.

Hopefully someone else remembers. I’d like to know the answer as well.

2850

[quote]Plisskin wrote:
I’d think that a depletion workout a day or two after a refeed would be a good idea[/quote]

the depletion workout is done PRIOR to the refeed.

2851

[quote]MeLo wrote:
the depletion workout is done PRIOR to the refeed.

[/quote]

Hmm…prior huh? Thats a new one on me. I’ve read of post-refeed depletion workouts in other similar diets, but not a depletion workout prior to the refeed. Seems like you wouldn’t need it if you’ve already been on the 30g or less for several days and have been lifting and active because you’d already be depleted or coming to the point of depletion. Perhaps, it’d be a good idea as you’d get a better fill on the refeed.

Confusion. Sorry!

You might mail DiscHoss or IlCazzo. They would probably have all the answer you’d need in relation to the AD.

And if you get an answer outside of this thread, PM me will you? Thanks.

2852

haha i dont know how off topic this might be but i was at my gym the other day and was talking to an older woman who had been on the AD for about 8 months now. She was working her legs that day and she squatted 275lbs. now ive never seen a woman have enough of a mindset to do that. i know some guy friends of mine who still cant break that much weight. this diet must be strength contagious because i added 30lbs. to my squat in a week.

2853

[quote]SashaG wrote:
Although following the AD and other variations of it will naturally improve your body’s insulin sensitivity, when we’re saturating the body with CHOs on our load days, we’re creating a very an anabolic environment where we have a lot of glycogen flowing through our body.

[/quote]

Actually, the AD and other low-carb variations decrease insulin sensitivity. Thats why many nutrition experts on this site don’t tout them so much, especially long-term.

2854

[quote]allNatural wrote:
SashaG wrote:
Although following the AD and other variations of it will naturally improve your body’s insulin sensitivity, when we’re saturating the body with CHOs on our load days, we’re creating a very an anabolic environment where we have a lot of glycogen flowing through our body.

Actually, the AD and other low-carb variations decrease insulin sensitivity.

[/quote]

Edit: don’t wanna come across as harsh.

Low carb diets DO improve insulin sensitivity.

2855

[quote]Deinabolic wrote:
allNatural wrote:
SashaG wrote:
Although following the AD and other variations of it will naturally improve your body’s insulin sensitivity, when we’re saturating the body with CHOs on our load days, we’re creating a very an anabolic environment where we have a lot of glycogen flowing through our body.

Actually, the AD and other low-carb variations decrease insulin sensitivity.

Edit: don’t wanna come across as harsh.

Low carb diets DO improve insulin sensitivity. [/quote]

I guess you and Dr. Berardi would have a good debate then.

2856

[quote]Deinabolic wrote:
allNatural wrote:
SashaG wrote:
Although following the AD and other variations of it will naturally improve your body’s insulin sensitivity, when we’re saturating the body with CHOs on our load days, we’re creating a very an anabolic environment where we have a lot of glycogen flowing through our body.

Actually, the AD and other low-carb variations decrease insulin sensitivity.

Edit: don’t wanna come across as harsh.

Low carb diets DO improve insulin sensitivity. [/quote]

Low Carb diet DO increase insulin sensitivity in the short term that’s for sure.
Long-term low carb? Your body will ‘forget’ how to process them efficiently and thus ruining insulin sensitivity.

2857

[quote]allNatural wrote:
Deinabolic wrote:
allNatural wrote:
SashaG wrote:
Although following the AD and other variations of it will naturally improve your body’s insulin sensitivity, when we’re saturating the body with CHOs on our load days, we’re creating a very an anabolic environment where we have a lot of glycogen flowing through our body.

Actually, the AD and other low-carb variations decrease insulin sensitivity.

Edit: don’t wanna come across as harsh.

Low carb diets DO improve insulin sensitivity.

I guess you and Dr. Berardi would have a good debate then.
[/quote]

Can you find any discussion of his surrounding the issue and link it? Seriously - not being argumentative but I don’t recall ever reading that about cyclical low carb diets.

2858

[quote]MeLo wrote:
Deinabolic wrote:
allNatural wrote:
SashaG wrote:
Although following the AD and other variations of it will naturally improve your body’s insulin sensitivity, when we’re saturating the body with CHOs on our load days, we’re creating a very an anabolic environment where we have a lot of glycogen flowing through our body.

Actually, the AD and other low-carb variations decrease insulin sensitivity.

Edit: don’t wanna come across as harsh.

Low carb diets DO improve insulin sensitivity.

Low Carb diet DO increase insulin sensitivity in the short term that’s for sure.
Long-term low carb? Your body will ‘forget’ how to process them efficiently and thus ruining insulin sensitivity.

[/quote]

“Forget”? Does your pancreas spontaneously combust like a Spinal Tap drummer or something? :slight_smile:

Like I replied above, can you find any info supporting this for the sake of the thread? Thanks.

2859

I’m pretty sure the “popular these days” diets he’s talking about are the carb-cycling diets. This is the only disadvantage as far as I’m concerned and I won’t be quitting this type of diet very soon.

In other articles, I’ve seen him and others discourage AD style diets, at least long term, from an insulin sensitivity standpoint. Maybe one was the low-carb roundtable…?

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=462122

RW ? Does insulin sensitivity vary or change?

JB ? Insulin sensitivity is unique to each individual but the cool thing is that it can be manipulated by exercise, diet, and supplementation. And that’s what I do with my clients to dramatically change their body composition.

Both aerobic and resistance training greatly increase insulin sensitivity through some different and some similar mechanisms. In addition, supplements like omega 3 fatty acids, fish oils, alpha-lipoic acid, and chromium can increase insulin sensitivity. Finally, moderate carbohydrate diets that are rich in fiber can increase insulin sensitivity.

On the flip side, the low-carb, high-fat diets that have become popular can decrease insulin sensitivity. That’s why none of my trainees go on no-carb diets, unless they’re dieting down for a show and then they’ll do occasional no carb diets every few months for a maximum of 3 weeks at a time.

2860

[quote]allNatural wrote:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=462122[/quote]

On the flip side, the low-carb, high-fat diets that have become popular can decrease insulin sensitivity. That’s why none of my trainees go on no-carb diets, unless they’re dieting down for a show and then they’ll do occasional no carb diets every few months for a maximum of 3 weeks at a time.

The excerpt above doesn’t qualify what a “no carb” diet is. Considering the time this interview was published, I guarandamntee he’s referring to typical Atkinsish non-stop ketosis diets that were becoming en vogue back then, not those involving routine reloads/refeeds.

2861

Final layperson’s food for thought:

AD week: 5 days x 30grams CHO + 2 days x 400g CHO = 950g net consumption for the week

How does this differ as far as impact on insulin sensitivity from 7 days x 135g CHO for a net consumption of 945g which most folks would refer to as moderate carb intake?

Again, I’d be willing to bet money any insulin sensitivity problems referred to by T-Mag writers deal with straight up ketosis diets.