My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

Nutrition
2822

My thoughts are that if you want to use supps, and Biotest sells them on this site, and most other things being equal, ie, price, product quality, access, etc, you should default to buying your products here, or at least a fair portion of them, and supporting this site.

Metabolic Drive is a great mixed protein product, and the jug-o-whey product they have now is good too. Yes you can use other companies products, but frankly, the various flavors of Metabolic Drive, the 100% whey, lots of different flavors of sugar-free Jello and pudding, give me all the variety I need–or want.

Don’t mean to be a T-Nation sychophant (I do have a few competing products in my cupboard) but I just think that’s worth mentioning.

And I certainly wouldn’t discuss the merits of competing products openly on this site. That’s like going to your girlfriend’s house with your buddies and talking openly about how other girls did what better in the sack than your current girl. It’s just plain rude.

Those are my thoughts. I’m sure other’s will have thoughts that are diameticrally opposite.

[quote]suavij wrote:
Hey guys, check this out. It’s from dave tate’s training log re: get shredded diet reload days. If you’re not familiar, the GSD is very similar to the AD cutting phase + tonnes of supps. For Mr. Tate it features one reload day/week.

asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=44240&tid=124

The part that interested me the most in this was the part where he mentions using fuckloads of salt. This is something that I’d noticed too… it seems that if I don’t use plenty of salt on my weekend/carbup day, then by the time the second half of the regular week is arriving, i crave mad salt. And here I thought I was crazy!

The next diet tweak i need to make probably involves getting creatine back into the mix… and maybe some glutamine if i can afford it to see if it helps me with DOMS. First order of business will be replacing my protein powder, as I’ve got 1 or 2 servings left. :frowning:

What type of powders do you guys use? I was thinking of going with more low carb MD chocolate, but also maybe going with some isopure 0 carb vanilla stuff, or the syntrax nectar stuff that’s all 0 carbs as well.

Thoughts on any of the above?[/quote]

2823

[quote]bino wrote:

And I certainly wouldn’t discuss the merits of competing products openly on this site. That’s like going to your girlfriend’s house with your buddies and talking openly about how other girls did what better in the sack than your current girl. It’s just plain rude.
[/quote]

I understand your stance, but that analogy is a little fallacious. I’d agree if Biotest and I had a working relationship comparable to your example (maybe a writer), but this is a free forum in a free market and Biotest can either compete with price or disallow non-Biotest dicussion, the latter case I’m leaving and not buying ANY Biotest products. If you think upholding the merits of unbiased freedom is rude, you may be a little too sensitive for a place called Testosterone Nation anyway.

2824

Bino: I certainly understand where you’re coming from with your opinion, Biotest has some solid products. With 2 servings left on my Low Carb Metabolic Drive Chocolate, i was considering ordering more. The last order i had got a nice hunk of change added on to the price at the border which made it pricey to get for me in Canada for how much I get.

However, I also don’t think that I mentioned any competing products. The other products I mentioned were both 0 carb whey protein isolates, which Biotest doesn’t offer. Also, their “WP4CB”(whey protein for cheap bastards) product is out of stock. On a plan where you’re supposed to try and stick to, say, 30g carbs per day, when you start using multiple servings of protein powders with 2 or more per serving on a regular basis, it can add up. This is why I am looking for 0 carb ones, as i can take multiple scoops at a time and not think even once about it.

AllNatural: Thanks for the heads up about Dymatize. I looked into it and it seems they use aspartame though… regardless of any science in support or defence of it… I’d really rather just stay away from it.

2825

[quote]suavij wrote:

AllNatural: Thanks for the heads up about Dymatize. I looked into it and it seems they use aspartame though… [/quote]

Syntax nectar uses it too. Unless you were gonna pay $35 for 2lb of the “natural” stuff

2826

[quote]allNatural wrote:
suavij wrote:
AllNatural: Thanks for the heads up about Dymatize. I looked into it and it seems they use aspartame though…

Syntax nectar uses it too. Unless you were gonna pay $35 for 2lb of the “natural” stuff

[/quote]

Whoa. Looks like some of the stores i was looking at weren’t being too careful with their ingredients lists. Thanks a TONNE for pointing that out to me. I know that using aspartame every now and again would most likely pose no problems… i never notice bad side effects myself. But if i visit my bro and we go to the gym together, aspartame gives him wicked headaches, etc.

That quick reply mighta just saved him some pain. Thanks! Back to looking for more options. :>

2827

[quote]suavij wrote:
Bino: I certainly understand where you’re coming from with your opinion, Biotest has some solid products. With 2 servings left on my Low Carb Metabolic Drive Chocolate, i was considering ordering more. The last order i had got a nice hunk of change added on to the price at the border which made it pricey to get for me in Canada for how much I get. [/quote]

No worries. Price issue for getting it over the border is a completely legit reason to look elsewhere. Just took my opportunity to make a comment on something I’ve been seeing a lot of lately.

That’s a good point. And I think one of the things to learn here is that planning a carby food that gets you just under the wire is a bad idea, particularly for people in the induction phase, and otherwise newer to the AD. I used to do this myself when I started a little over a year ago. I’d plan out everything so that I could get a 22 gram CHO treat in there (usually one of the old Grow! bars).

The problem is that there are too many indcidental CHO grams out there. The might egg itself has about .4 grams per large egg according to the Nutrient Data Base. http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl Is there a more perfect AD food than the egg–I submit there is not–yet there is CHO in there too.

One thing I see a lot of is people that want to still get a carb/pro drink in after working out. They figure out that a half serving of Surge has ~25 grams CHO, and think, “Yeah, I can meet the AD guielines if I keep other CHO down to 5 grams, and still get the benefit of the carb PWO drink. I’m a genius!” Talk about trying to serve two masters. If one wants to be an ADer, then do it, and save the Surge for the weekend. Hell have six scoops after your Saturday workout if you want. Go nuts.

I think the best plan is to not consume any “carby” food and just let your incidental CHO grams add up from your veggies, protein powder, eggs, etc. After you get past the newbie carb nano-gram counting paranoia (which is good thing, ie newbie paranoia), counting CHO isn’t even needed anymore; because a diet that is structured with foods that contain only incidental CHO is going to be just fine.

You’re going to know when to cut it off, and I think it would be hard to consume so much protein powder and eggs and other incidentals for it ever to present a problem.

One caveat I’d like to throw out there is that after a while on the AD, my carb tolerance has improved, and I suspect that may be true for many. I haven’t conducted a psuedo-scientific test on myself to find my upper limit or anything, but I think I can get away with 50-60 grams per day and be just fine. The good doc even says in the Anabolic Solution that adapted individuals should play around with their tolerances, and that up to 70 grams is not unusual. To me that means get those extras in the form of more liberal inidentals (eg, some fruit in the protein shake)–it doesn’t mean go ahead and squeeze in a couple slices of toast because they technically fit. That’s playing with fire.

Your mileage may vary.

2828

Just got to my first carb up weekend after the induction phase. Ate some ceral and had orange juice this morning, but didn’t really want either. Got to lunch and had over a pound of dhosa (indian food).

Passed out for a couple hours, and now I am seriously starving. I have been trying to just focus on getting in carbs, but I really am not enjoying the carb up like I thought I would. I’m definitely behind in my calorie count, so back to eating…

2829

[quote]veruvius wrote:
Just got to my first carb up weekend after the induction phase. Ate some ceral and had orange juice this morning, but didn’t really want either. Got to lunch and had over a pound of dhosa (indian food).

Passed out for a couple hours, and now I am seriously starving. I have been trying to just focus on getting in carbs, but I really am not enjoying the carb up like I thought I would. I’m definitely behind in my calorie count, so back to eating…[/quote]

bro congrats for going through the induction with success. like u said same happens with me after being on the ad for last 2and half months on carbs up days. but remember its imp for u to stuff the carbs in u for many reasons u must have read about the leptin thing discuused here for fat loss and perfomance and everything u need that carbup .

u mentioned dhosa the indian food being a indian and staying in india i can vouch that dhosa , idli(rice cakes) and some other foods in indian restaurents are good carbs up food and tasty also , u can go and have a nice buffet also which will give u some tasty rice ,whole wheat rolls and nice vegetables .

the only point here is to remeber that caRBS AT WEEKEENDS are imp …i know its hard but stuff urself , if u have surge with u then thats also a good option to have it and also remember fats are also imp on carbups hope the next carbup will be a enjoyable experience for u -raviraj

2830

Hey guys… so, I drank for the first time in nine months. I was out, the company was paying for drinks, it was the last day at our training site, and I was getting to know a fine young lady who is an easy “10” in the looks department - model quality. I was on day 6 of a reintroduction phase (Thursday night), but it looks like we’re gonna end up going an extra week because of the alcohol :slight_smile:

The damage: 1 dry vodka martini (roughly two shots), and about three more ounces of vodka sipped.

Oooh lord.

Woke up at 3:30am (after a measy 2 or so hours of sleep) and puked my guts out until 6:30am. And left for work at 7:00. Now I remember why I stopped drinking oh so long ago. That night should suffice for another year or so off avoiding the sauce.

2831

ya, drinking sucks. i dont care if i lose a social life over it. it sucks!! its just not worth it.

2832

Bino: Yeah, about the carb counting. These are pretty much my only sources of “whole carbs”

BrocCHOli, Brussels sprouts, CHOliflower, some bell peppers, mushrooms. pecans/walnuts

Other than that it’s just incidental stuff from eggs, cheese, and protein powder. Basically my food selection is like

Whatever meat’s on sale at the store
canned chicken/turkey/tuna/salmon
bacon/turkey bacon
olive oil
veg
nuts
eggs…
protein powda

I don’t use any of those “low carb wrap” type products or whatever… I was just looking to minimize carbs in protein drinks. Wasn’t too worried about it. I’m gonna be putting in an order for some Power Drive soon i imagine, so i might just get some more Metabolic Drive. Basically i just like maximizing the size of the veg pile I put on my plate at supper. Sometimes it’s pretty ridiculously huge. :slight_smile:

Zdrax: That’s no fun. Last time i drank in excess it was a whole 26er of rum. I can’t even smell that shit anymore. haha.

2833

Ok, reconciling what sasha and chris have suggested, I’ve decided to do a PWO carbup once on Sun and once on Thurs. Today, I took in 110grams during and after my workout and around 130grams shortly after.

This was from: gatorade, milk and cereal, and a sweet potato with honey. I also had 18 grams with a pre-workout shake. what do you think about taking in around 50 carbs the rest of the day? Any comments/suggestions?

2834

Hope everyone is on track with their goals. Its nice and hot here in Puerto Rico. Ive been on the diet for 2 weeks and its been very smooth.

Im building an zip-archive of this whole thread for all the new people, like me, that need to read it. If anybody is interested i have the first 45 pages in compressed zip file of 20MB. If anybody wants it PM me and ill email it to ya.

Knowledge is Power!

196 lb 12%bf? 5’9

2835

[quote]allNatural wrote:
Ok, reconciling what sasha and chris have suggested, I’ve decided to do a PWO carbup once on Sun and once on Thurs. Today, I took in 110grams during and after my workout and around 130grams shortly after.

This was from: gatorade, milk and cereal, and a sweet potato with honey. I also had 18 grams with a pre-workout shake. what do you think about taking in around 50 carbs the rest of the day? Any comments/suggestions?[/quote]

allNatural,

Looks good mate . . . that should work just fine. Just keep your low CHO days low and make sure you’re getting your fats in.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Sasha

2836

[quote]SashaG wrote:
allNatural wrote:
Ok, reconciling what sasha and chris have suggested, I’ve decided to do a PWO carbup once on Sun and once on Thurs. Today, I took in 110grams during and after my workout and around 130grams shortly after.

This was from: gatorade, milk and cereal, and a sweet potato with honey. I also had 18 grams with a pre-workout shake. what do you think about taking in around 50 carbs the rest of the day? Any comments/suggestions?

allNatural,

Looks good mate . . . that should work just fine. Just keep your low CHO days low and make sure you’re getting your fats in.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Sasha
[/quote]

ok sasha and all the guys out there …i will leave to usa and canada for my tour tommorow thats 26 and iwll reach there on wednesday evening …now sasha i need ur help …by telling which are the imp supplements i must buy there regarding our ad lifestlye . i had ZMA in mind fish oil capsules, extra virgin olive oil . do u have any other imp things in mind pls let me know . i will be getting a daily food allowance there …so suggestions from all staying in usa are welcomed …on how can i eat on road healthy and yet save some bucks . will be hard for me to cook as i will be staying in hotels all through my tour the room has a microwave …so in that case pls suggest something and specially if i plan to eat out …what are the best options …ur help will be indeeed valuabale just hope i get a decent gym in the hotel not just the treadmill and a cycle which the usually have -raviraj

2837

[quote]raviraj wrote:
ok sasha and all the guys out there …i will leave to usa and canada for my tour tommorow thats 26 and iwll reach there on wednesday evening …now sasha i need ur help …by telling which are the imp supplements i must buy there regarding our ad lifestlye . i had ZMA in mind fish oil capsules, extra virgin olive oil . do u have any other imp things in mind pls let me know . i will be getting a daily food allowance there …so suggestions from all staying in usa are welcomed …on how can i eat on road healthy and yet save some bucks . will be hard for me to cook as i will be staying in hotels all through my tour the room has a microwave …so in that case pls suggest something and specially if i plan to eat out …what are the best options …ur help will be indeeed valuabale just hope i get a decent gym in the hotel not just the treadmill and a cycle which the usually have -raviraj[/quote]

Rav,

Here’s what I would put on my hit list:

BCAAs
Walnuts
Brazil Nuts
EFA supps - Flax oil, Fish oils
Metabolic Drive
Shaker cup
R-ALA (for CHO loads)

Things to buy when you land:

Natural Peanut butter
Olive Oil
Variety of Deli meats (Turkey, chicken, pastrami, roast beef, etc.)
Smoked Salmon

You’ll find that the US has a ton of low-carb foods and an even better access to the supplements we can’t get over here.

Anyway, these are the things I would take with me if I had the choice.

Cheers,

Sasha

2838

Well guys and gals, I just had my first real carb up in a long time. I’ve been straying and eating crap food frequently enough that I’ve forgone the carb up for a while, but I had an awesome couple weeks in fat fueled heaven so after a strongman contest saturday I rocked 150 grams of dextrose in a pwo shake, then attacked a fast food joint and finished with a trip to a buffet and a birthday cake for my Pop.

Then, yesterday I bought a cheap charcoal grill and smoked up an entire 7 pound pork loin. My God, it’s the best thing I’ve ever had in my life. I’ve ordered barbecue in three Southern states that couldn’t compare to this. Needless to say I’m in heaven.

At any rate, I’ve got a question about cheese. I’ve always eaten it basically indiscriminantly, but I’ve heard talk lately about it being insulinogenic, so I’ve limited it to early mornings and post workouts. Any truth to this? I also have a mad appetitie for cheese and could probably eat a pound a day if I had ad libitum access, so this sensible rationing is a good idea anyway, I was just curious about the insulin aspect. Any ideas?

Rock on,

Conor

2839

[quote]conorh wrote:
Well guys and gals, I just had my first real carb up in a long time. I’ve been straying and eating crap food frequently enough that I’ve forgone the carb up for a while, but I had an awesome couple weeks in fat fueled heaven so after a strongman contest saturday I rocked 150 grams of dextrose in a pwo shake, then attacked a fast food joint and finished with a trip to a buffet and a birthday cake for my Pop.

Then, yesterday I bought a cheap charcoal grill and smoked up an entire 7 pound pork loin. My God, it’s the best thing I’ve ever had in my life. I’ve ordered barbecue in three Southern states that couldn’t compare to this. Needless to say I’m in heaven.

At any rate, I’ve got a question about cheese. I’ve always eaten it basically indiscriminantly, but I’ve heard talk lately about it being insulinogenic, so I’ve limited it to early mornings and post workouts. Any truth to this? I also have a mad appetitie for cheese and could probably eat a pound a day if I had ad libitum access, so this sensible rationing is a good idea anyway, I was just curious about the insulin aspect. Any ideas?

Rock on,

Conor[/quote]

Conor,

I think that this insulin response associated with cheese is a little over estimated. I’ve read studies that showed that consuming high fat/high protein/little to no CHO based foods like cheese and steak register a 0 on the Glycemic index making it a guilt free pleasure on the AD.

I believe where the confusion comes in was in one of the few studies done on the Insulin Index (II), which most people use as their point of resource, had foods like meat and cheese actually iliciting an insulin response when consumed. Cheese actually scored a GI of 55 and an II score of 45. And get this, fish, a GI of 28 and an II of 59!!!

Now before you all fall into an insulin induced coma, there’s a catch. The people they tested had been fasting for 10-12 hours prior to consuming these foods and ingested 1000 k-cals of each food. Taking Mini Babybel’s as an example, to hit 1000 calories you would need to consume 300 grams of cheese in one sitting. That’s almost 15 mini babybels. If you consume 1000 cals of cheese and don’t ilicit some sort of biological response, you may want to check to see if you’re breathing.

In my opinion, low/no CHO cheeses have the green light with me . . . any time, anywhere.

Cheers,

Sasha

2840

It’s been verified that “milk products” have a high Insulin index up there with simple carbs. BUT, I also understand that the reason is from the lactose (milk sugar) from the milk, which makes sense. Cheese obviously doesn’t have any sugars, and I think is exempt from the “milk product” category in this regard. Isn’t an II of 50-60 pretty low anyway?

2841

[quote]allNatural wrote:
It’s been verified that “milk products” have a high Insulin index up there with simple carbs. BUT, I also understand that the reason is from the lactose (milk sugar) from the milk, which makes sense. Cheese obviously doesn’t have any sugars, and I think is exempt from the “milk product” category in this regard. Isn’t an II of 50-60 pretty low anyway? [/quote]

allNatural,

Nice one on the cheese/lactose distinction . . . one that a lot of people don’t always do. On that note, we should keep an eye out for lower fat cheeses as they tend to just get jacked up with pasturised milks loaded with lactose.

It’s true that an II of 50-60 isn’t bad but if you look at the foods that also rank in that area we’re talking about white pasta, apples, popcorn and Special K. I think it was the category of foods that was shocking as much as it was the fact that it even ranked.

Cheers,

Sasha