My Experience On the Anabolic Diet

I took a break from full-body training and did 4 weeks of Mr. Thibaudeau’s HSS-100 on the AD. It was great! But now I’m back doing full body 3 or so times a week, and yes, strength is awesome. Big increases in pullups and all that.

Also, on last weekend’s carbup, i got addicted to honey + cheese on toast. Weird.

Regarding AAS and the AD, in the book Dr. Pasquale says that using AAS kind of messes with the hormonal advantages brought on by the AD way of eating in the first place… but, with AAS + food, you’re gonna get results. :slight_smile:

[quote]SashaG wrote:
d4ve wrote:
I have a couple questions for realpeanutbutter and others who do a more NHE style carb-up twice a week -

Do you think it would be better to have the carbs the evening before a workout (off day) or PWO the day of?

Having two small carb-ups throughout the week is obviously not quite as flexible as the original AD, where you can just go out to eat anytime during the weekend and not worry about carbs. If, say, I had a big carb-up on Fri, and then had a situation on Saturday where I wanted to go ahead and have a meal with carbs (“cheat” food, but probably not ~200 carbs like a carb-up), would it be detrimental to go ahead and have carbs again (trying to gain)? I’m assuming it wouldn’t be that big of a deal since glycogen probably isn’t all the way topped off after the Fri carb-up.

d4ve,

Chris makes a lot of valid points in his post but one thing we need caveat is you need to be adjusted to the AD lifestyle before experimenting. Playing with a mid-week carb up and modifying your nutrient timing should be reserved to those who have been on the diet for at least 6 weeks. If you’re bouncing between energy systems/ketosis you’re neither here nor there.

I think if you are trying to gain, eating AD style will be far more effective than the other iterations. If you’re really trying to lean out, the AD is still great, but I would also understand following Poliquin’s 4:1 approach. These CHO ups are more controlled and more frequent which is important on calorie controlled diets from a metabolic standpoint.

Overall, I believe the AD in its purest form is the most flexible and effective approach. I would be hard pressed to believe that the others are as accomodating and fun!

Anyway, let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Sasha

[/quote]

hello sasha and realpeanutbutter i did the 3/5 carb up meals as per vince gironda ,poliquin , rob faigin suggest infact even disc hoss told me that is a more effective way for fat loss what i do is after my training on mom and friday i have my p+f and at night my last meal is a only carb meal which consist of wheat tortillas, vegetables , rice , some sweet and i small scoop of ice cream …iam look more lean i did 2 carb meals so far looking for the next on friday night do u guys suggest something particular on the carb meals ? as sasha said iam taking 200mg ala with my carbs up . and also started CW 10x3 and strenght is going preety nice what i see more prominent is that my cardiovascular fitness has also improved and my workouts are fast paced with 60 min rest periods . any suggestions are welcome iam also taking sans TIGHT fight burner 2 cap everyday .

most important ever:

“If it works don’t change it”

If you are already adapted then twiddle with it. It’s your choice. do whatever works until it stops working and then change it. So if you are getting the results with 2 CHO ups then keep it up.

-chris

[quote]raviraj wrote:
SashaG wrote:
d4ve wrote:
I have a couple questions for realpeanutbutter and others who do a more NHE style carb-up twice a week -

Do you think it would be better to have the carbs the evening before a workout (off day) or PWO the day of?

Having two small carb-ups throughout the week is obviously not quite as flexible as the original AD, where you can just go out to eat anytime during the weekend and not worry about carbs. If, say, I had a big carb-up on Fri, and then had a situation on Saturday where I wanted to go ahead and have a meal with carbs (“cheat” food, but probably not ~200 carbs like a carb-up), would it be detrimental to go ahead and have carbs again (trying to gain)? I’m assuming it wouldn’t be that big of a deal since glycogen probably isn’t all the way topped off after the Fri carb-up.

d4ve,

Chris makes a lot of valid points in his post but one thing we need caveat is you need to be adjusted to the AD lifestyle before experimenting. Playing with a mid-week carb up and modifying your nutrient timing should be reserved to those who have been on the diet for at least 6 weeks. If you’re bouncing between energy systems/ketosis you’re neither here nor there.

I think if you are trying to gain, eating AD style will be far more effective than the other iterations. If you’re really trying to lean out, the AD is still great, but I would also understand following Poliquin’s 4:1 approach. These CHO ups are more controlled and more frequent which is important on calorie controlled diets from a metabolic standpoint.

Overall, I believe the AD in its purest form is the most flexible and effective approach. I would be hard pressed to believe that the others are as accomodating and fun!

Anyway, let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Sasha

hello sasha and realpeanutbutter i did the 3/5 carb up meals as per vince gironda ,poliquin , rob faigin suggest infact even disc hoss told me that is a more effective way for fat loss what i do is after my training on mom and friday i have my p+f and at night my last meal is a only carb meal which consist of wheat tortillas, vegetables , rice , some sweet and i small scoop of ice cream …iam look more lean i did 2 carb meals so far looking for the next on friday night do u guys suggest something particular on the carb meals ? as sasha said iam taking 200mg ala with my carbs up . and also started CW 10x3 and strenght is going preety nice what i see more prominent is that my cardiovascular fitness has also improved and my workouts are fast paced with 60 min rest periods . any suggestions are welcome iam also taking sans TIGHT fight burner 2 cap everyday .[/quote]

Sounds good. uhhh… in a way JB’s GSD is very much like an AD cycling style. Hav fun eating, or not rather :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

AD/PN is a lifestyle, you’ll never stop. were you doingPN before the GSD?

-chris

[quote]kkeane wrote:
confession time… i am pretty sure that i have read this entire thread at least twice. lol. my job is pretty boring and i have prob read SECTIONS of it at least three times. that being said, i am all over this diet once i get off JB’s Get Shredded plan. as somewhat of a FFB, i want to get uber lean before i start bulking (tho i imagine with AD i will limit fat gain while getting EL LARGO) I cannot wait. I have been lifting for about 8 months (losing fat pretty much the whole time) and have shown tendency to gain muscle like a mofo if i feed my body properly. with my meso/endo tendencies and the power of the anabolic diet, i should get massivo. eh. back to my 6 oz. chicken spinach and olive oil salad for now. you guys better still be cookin’ along in september when i start, or i will be extremely saddened.

keep up the good work dudes.[/quote]

I was carb cycling at about 2500-2700 cals. i gained a bit of LBM during this month or so period, and it was a nice change from dieting. but i am in the 12% bf range (6’2 185) and want to get into the 10s or single digits before i go nuts and attempt to pack on mass.

GSD does have similarities to AD… he recommends a 30-35/10-15/50-55 (p/c/f) ratio, i have been doing about 35/10/55. i should transition nicely into the AD and i am looking forward to eating more than 4 times a day and more than 450 cals a sitting. and of course, a more frequent carb up. :smiley: those 14 days on GSD are tough to wait out.

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
Sounds good. uhhh… in a way JB’s GSD is very much like an AD cycling style. Hav fun eating, or not rather :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

AD/PN is a lifestyle, you’ll never stop. were you doingPN before the GSD?

-chris

kkeane wrote:
confession time… i am pretty sure that i have read this entire thread at least twice. lol. my job is pretty boring and i have prob read SECTIONS of it at least three times. that being said, i am all over this diet once i get off JB’s Get Shredded plan. as somewhat of a FFB, i want to get uber lean before i start bulking (tho i imagine with AD i will limit fat gain while getting EL LARGO) I cannot wait. I have been lifting for about 8 months (losing fat pretty much the whole time) and have shown tendency to gain muscle like a mofo if i feed my body properly. with my meso/endo tendencies and the power of the anabolic diet, i should get massivo. eh. back to my 6 oz. chicken spinach and olive oil salad for now. you guys better still be cookin’ along in september when i start, or i will be extremely saddened.

keep up the good work dudes.

[/quote]

OK just got back from my leg workout. MUCH better than last week. I had a lot more energy and I didn’t need to use little baby weights. My strength isn’t back 100% to where it was before I began induction, but it’s almost there. I imagine my first carb-up will help out a lot with this.

On a side note, squats didn’t irritate my left knee at all today which happens almost all the time (nothing severe, very slight). I think this might be due to all the fish oil capsules I have been taking. Who knows? All I know is that I am very happy with the AD so far, and I think I am going to be able to make this work for the long term.

Eat more food to keep strength up. you will feel like million bucks if you just eat more. Your strength should be down for only 1-3 days and those are the crash days where you feel like dog shitski. After that you should be a regular tank CHO up or not. for just strength trianing CHO is barely needed at all. Only intense activity like sprinting should really get taxed on low CHO break in. Feast for those first few cycles.

-chris

[quote]justinf77 wrote:
OK just got back from my leg workout. MUCH better than last week. I had a lot more energy and I didn’t need to use little baby weights. My strength isn’t back 100% to where it was before I began induction, but it’s almost there. I imagine my first carb-up will help out a lot with this.

On a side note, squats didn’t irritate my left knee at all today which happens almost all the time (nothing severe, very slight). I think this might be due to all the fish oil capsules I have been taking. Who knows? All I know is that I am very happy with the AD so far, and I think I am going to be able to make this work for the long term.[/quote]

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
Alright,

A) read the WHOLE thread. That’s right the whole thing. As you read it copy and paste helpful posts to a word doc. this way you will have it all for reference.

B) Start your 12 day transition phase now. During this time i suggest you be very sceptical about ANY CHO (carb) that is not a vegtable, or spinach/broccoli for that matter. even the legendary peanutbutter.

C) The fat will come of during this time quite well. Since you have been eating “low-carb” (whatever that may or may not mean) you might not crash in your 12 day intro. Keep your food levels high during your first 12 days. Don’t be an anorexic girl. eat and train hard, Low CHO is no reason not to train like a beast.

D) After your first two day CHO up you can start working on reducing fat by taking only one day to CHO up. this means 6 days low CHO and one day of hard eating. It will take you about 2 months to really “get going” on the AD and start seeing it’s best side. So if you only CHO up for one day you really have to amn up about it. Make sure you get your 500 g CHO that day no matter what. Trust me you will want to pussy out because that is a ton of food in one day, but measure it and do it. This will really set your leptin levels high and make for great fat burning. (awsome segue coming…)

E) the day after your CHO up you should get in 3 (three, tres, san) energy systems sessions. I suggest swimming, sprints and burpees. Also on this day you should get a lower amount of food. Eat only as much as you need. This is a day that is optimal for fat burning because your leptin is high and you are full of CHO power. By keeping cals low on this day your body will burn more fat than active food (shit you just ate). The next day get back to your regular calories and hit the weights hard for the rest of the week.

This leptin reset system works better than a 5 year-old at a GAP factory in Sri Lanka for me. It is also one of the main systems behind how the AD works to keep you lean. the CHO ups are more than glycogen resorations, they are Basal metabolic level boosters. That is why you can’t pussy out on your CHO ups. this is also why atkins people bottom out after a month on fatkins. This is also why on JB’s PN program he gets people to stuff their face full of food.

For bulking just pop up your caloric density and eat more before bed. Oh yeah and train like you’re bulking obv.

Despite what rice caker’s would have you think your strength only goes up on this no matter how low CHO you go (rhymes). The only thing that will be holding you back is lack of mental motivation. Some people get this because they are used to the seratonin highs that CHO gives them, and feel that they are weak when they are just not mentally in the zone. Use some type of stim for this. Power Drive i hear is hot.

Get ready to sweat.

Don’t rush the AD, it pays off if you’re patient.

Don’t be a pussy

-chris

[/quote]

Thanks for the advice man, it was serious help. The only carbs I’ve been getting in have been from the Hood Choc. milk, some saur kraut, and some relish for tuna salad. I eat whenever I feel hungry. As I am an ectomorph, I feel like serious calorie restriction is unnecessary. I’ll make sure I get the 500g CHO on the load day.
For the energy systems work, are you thinking HIIT or something lower key because there are three workouts? My first two day load will be this weekend, so should I have an energy systems day on Monday? Lastly, I AM Sri Lankan. If you think the 5 year olds in the GAP factory are something, you should watch the 7 y/o’s in the Columbia factory! Poetry in motion.

Thanks for the advice. When I said one meal, I mean a huge meal, around 200 carbs. It’s not like a “normal” meal, takes quite a while to eat. However, most, if not all, are low glycemic, so I guess I should be getting in some higher as well. Does this still seem on the low side? I have Faigin’s NHE, he reccomends at least 100 grams spread over two meals, so I can just adjust upward. How many carbs would you say you’re getting in on your carb-ups?

As for having the carbs PWO, it seems to make sense what you said. The only reason I thought it might be beneficial to have them the evening before was that it might make workout performance better the next day - though I suppose if I’m loading up glycogen stores after training, it will just benefit the NEXT workout, so it would be kind of like an endless loop of refilling glycogen. Am I making sense?

The cheating after a carb-up wasn’t really a desire or need of mine. It’s just that if a friend wants to go grab some chipotle or pizza, it’s easier (and more fun :slight_smile: to just say “sure” than to say “no I already carbed up, my glycogen is full.”

Again, thanks for all the advice, you’re a big help on this thread.

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
If you are doing a double CHO up then I would do it the evening after a hard training session. I do mine on wed night after hard MMA type stuff. Then again on sunday, a semi rest day that has only an hour of gymnastics. Sunday is more all day for me. But if you are trying to gain and you have some random, non-reoccuring need to go out and eat then i would do it. It also depends on how hard you went during your CHO up. If you just eat one CHO meal on fridays then you are not getting the most out of your CHO up. have at least one day where you can really sink your teeth into some higher GI/GL CHO. Or on your friday CHO up really get nuts with some CHO dense food like baking or cereal.

I wouldn’t worry about one meal that doesn’t reoccur. Just go hard when you do CHO up, and keep it very real the rest of the time. CHO ups on training days I personally find to be the best for stupidly huge vacularity or ‘pumps’ or whatever. Plus you can ensure optimal CHO usage as per any viewpoint on when to eat CHO.

-chris

d4ve wrote:
I have a couple questions for realpeanutbutter and others who do a more NHE style carb-up twice a week -

Do you think it would be better to have the carbs the evening before a workout (off day) or PWO the day of?

Having two small carb-ups throughout the week is obviously not quite as flexible as the original AD, where you can just go out to eat anytime during the weekend and not worry about carbs. If, say, I had a big carb-up on Fri, and then had a situation on Saturday where I wanted to go ahead and have a meal with carbs (“cheat” food, but probably not ~200 carbs like a carb-up), would it be detrimental to go ahead and have carbs again (trying to gain)? I’m assuming it wouldn’t be that big of a deal since glycogen probably isn’t all the way topped off after the Fri carb-up.
[/quote]

is it okay to have 79% of my calories from fat and 30% from protein and 3% from carbs? i got 23% sat. fat 13% poly fat and 29% mono fat. exactly 30g carbs and 196g protein.

[quote]raviraj wrote:
SashaG wrote:
hello sasha and realpeanutbutter i did the 3/5 carb up meals as per vince gironda ,poliquin , rob faigin suggest infact even disc hoss told me that is a more effective way for fat loss what i do is after my training on mom and friday i have my p+f and at night my last meal is a only carb meal which consist of wheat tortillas, vegetables , rice , some sweet and i small scoop of ice cream …iam look more lean i did 2 carb meals so far looking for the next on friday night do u guys suggest something particular on the carb meals ? as sasha said iam taking 200mg ala with my carbs up . and also started CW 10x3 and strenght is going preety nice what i see more prominent is that my cardiovascular fitness has also improved and my workouts are fast paced with 60 min rest periods . any suggestions are welcome iam also taking sans TIGHT fight burner 2 cap everyday .[/quote]

raviraj,

Hey mate . . . I hope you are well. I think you really need to pick one approach and see it through. If you meeto some sort of resistance with your improvements, tweak, adjust, try and evaluate. I think you’re close to getting it so if Poliquin’s approach works well for you and cutting, then run with it. If you find the AD more pleasing, then there is your answer.

Bottom line is you have all the necessary factors in place for success, just follow ONE through for a while and let us know if it works.

Cheers.

Sasha

[quote]kkeane wrote:
I was carb cycling at about 2500-2700 cals. i gained a bit of LBM during this month or so period, and it was a nice change from dieting. but i am in the 12% bf range (6’2 185) and want to get into the 10s or single digits before i go nuts and attempt to pack on mass.

GSD does have similarities to AD… he recommends a 30-35/10-15/50-55 (p/c/f) ratio, i have been doing about 35/10/55. i should transition nicely into the AD and i am looking forward to eating more than 4 times a day and more than 450 cals a sitting. and of course, a more frequent carb up. :smiley: those 14 days on GSD are tough to wait out.

realpeanutbutter wrote:

[/quote]

kkeane,

I know you want to do Berardi’s Get Shredded diet but given that you’ve been keeping your cals so low thus far probably wouldn’t be best. Remember that JB only prescribes this extreme a diet once every 2 years and for him, he’s been eating like a maniac prior to it. I just would hate to see you risk grinding you metabolism to a hault despite the HIIT he prescribes.

What I would do is this . . .

Go through the adaptation phase as Dr.D prescribes . . . you’ll see improvements in your physique almost immediately as you’ll be dropping water and tightening up. You’d actually be surprised the difference between less than 30 grams of CHO make despite the fact you’ve been low carbing it with your current diet. Make sure you’re eating at maintenance level calories . . . I can’t stress this enough.

Next, begin dropping your cals . . . probably around the 250-500 a week (that’s each day mind you). Do this for around 4 weeks. Stick to the “clean” fats ensuring you’re getting lots of fish, nuts but also a balance of saturates (important for testosterone production). Also, make sure your intensity is still high in the gym and you don’t go too far below 2000 cals.

Finally, lets kick in a little G-Flux action. Start adding back those cals at a rate of approximately 500 cals per week. While doing so, begin to increase the work output of your HIIT and training sessions. You’ll be FFB, your body’s natural basal metabolic rate will increase, and guess what, you’ll improve your rate of fat loss. Do this for about 6 weeks and then decide whether you want to continue to drop fat, or continue to pack on muscle.

Other things to keep in mind. Keep your CHO loads to approx. 24 hours but make sure you eat! Don’t fear the carbs . . . insulin and leptin are our friends . . .we need them.

This approach will maximize fat loss, increase your strength levels, improve LBM (especially in the G-Flux phase) and taste great.

Give it a thought and shoot back with any questions.

Cheers,

Sasha

Are there any of you out there that stuck with the original AD guidelines from the first book and got great results whether fat loss or mass gain? Also, Where does the 2 week induction phase come from? Other DiPasquale books? Or just tweaking from the people in this forum?

[quote]trojanman wrote:
is it okay to have 79% of my calories from fat and 30% from protein and 3% from carbs? i got 23% sat. fat 13% poly fat and 29% mono fat. exactly 30g carbs and 196g protein.[/quote]

I think that something might be the matter with your math.

Adding up your fat, I see 65%. If you’re right about the amount of carbs and protein (I’m not willing to do anymore math for you), then that doesn’t seem too bad. Your poly’s are low, though. I had that problem, and cleared it up by eating more fish oil. At 65% total fat, you could also cut out some sats and monos.

But really, it’s a good idea to review wherever those numbers came from.

[quote]veruvius wrote:
realpeanutbutter wrote:
Alright,
Thanks for the advice man, it was serious help. The only carbs I’ve been getting in have been from the Hood Choc. milk, some saur kraut, and some relish for tuna salad. I eat whenever I feel hungry. As I am an ectomorph, I feel like serious calorie restriction is unnecessary. I’ll make sure I get the 500g CHO on the load day.
For the energy systems work, are you thinking HIIT or something lower key because there are three workouts? My first two day load will be this weekend, so should I have an energy systems day on Monday? Lastly, I AM Sri Lankan. If you think the 5 year olds in the GAP factory are something, you should watch the 7 y/o’s in the Columbia factory! Poetry in motion.
[/quote]

veruvius,

I can’t remember if you mentioned what your goals were but post CHO up, take advantage and hit the weights. HIIT is great for energy system works but if you ask me, I just love the feeling of hardcore training session when your muscles are pumped and loaded with glycogen.

If you want to incorporate some energy system works, try incoporating supersets, giant sets and complexes (see Alwyn Cosgrove’s work on this site) and you can get the best of both worlds.

Good luck this weekend and as Chris mentioned, eat your carbs.

Cheers,

Sasha

[quote]trojanman wrote:
is it okay to have 79% of my calories from fat and 30% from protein and 3% from carbs? i got 23% sat. fat 13% poly fat and 29% mono fat. exactly 30g carbs and 196g protein.[/quote]

Trojanman,

Are you still in the induction phase? If so, then yes, that high a level is cool but I would taper it off a little lower once you’ve adjusted to the AD.

One thing we have to remember with the AD is that just because we become FFB that doesn’t mean we no longer have to monitor our caloric intake. We can’t just plow through a huge excess of fat calories in our diet’s and not expect to gain fat. We must keep in mind that some traditional dieting rules do still apply when eating AD style.

Good luck mate . . .

Sasha

[quote]McNeil wrote:
Are there any of you out there that stuck with the original AD guidelines from the first book and got great results whether fat loss or mass gain? Also, Where does the 2 week induction phase come from? Other DiPasquale books? Or just tweaking from the people in this forum? [/quote]

McNeil,

I’m still on the traditional AD and am seeing strong results (both strength gain and fat loss).

I don’t mean to be rude but buy the e-book and read it. The 2-week induction comes from the original AD which lays down the foundation for this thread.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/The-Anabolic-Diet-Bodybuilding-Weight-Lifting-Ebook-NR_W0QQitemZ140007944424QQihZ004QQcategoryZ47103QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It’s only $2.99 US and well worth the investment and read. Although there is a wealth of knowledge on this thread, Dr. D’s e-book really is a must for truly understanding and success on the AD.

Cheers,

Sasha

[quote]SashaG wrote:
McNeil wrote:
Are there any of you out there that stuck with the original AD guidelines from the first book and got great results whether fat loss or mass gain? Also, Where does the 2 week induction phase come from? Other DiPasquale books? Or just tweaking from the people in this forum?

McNeil,

I’m still on the traditional AD and am seeing strong results (both strength gain and fat loss).

I don’t mean to be rude but buy the e-book and read it. The 2-week induction comes from the original AD which lays down the foundation for this thread.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/The-Anabolic-Diet-Bodybuilding-Weight-Lifting-Ebook-NR_W0QQitemZ140007944424QQihZ004QQcategoryZ47103QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It’s only $2.99 US and well worth the investment and read. Although there is a wealth of knowledge on this thread, Dr. D’s e-book really is a must for truly understanding and success on the AD.

Cheers,

Sasha
[/quote]

Sasha,

The two week / 12-day induction phase was actually not in the original AD, at least from what I can remember. The updated versions of the diet (Anabolic Solution, Metabolic Diet) strongly encourage the 12 day induction phase but point to studies that say 5 days may be enough to adapt. DiPasquale suggests the 12 day induction to make sure that you adapt properly and that your body doesn’t sit in metabolic limbo for weeks at a time.

Here’s a question to the team,

Is anyone experiencing any bloating during the week? If so, any recommendations for supplements/foods to help and alleviate it?

I get the occasional wicked bloat every once in a while and usually lasts most of the day. I am getting loads of fibre and EFAs through diet but seem to still get this on occasion.

Cheers,

Sasha

[quote]justinf77 wrote:
SashaG wrote:
McNeil wrote:

Sasha,

The two week / 12-day induction phase was actually not in the original AD, at least from what I can remember. The updated versions of the diet (Anabolic Solution, Metabolic Diet) strongly encourage the 12 day induction phase but point to studies that say 5 days may be enough to adapt. DiPasquale suggests the 12 day induction to make sure that you adapt properly and that your body doesn’t sit in metabolic limbo for weeks at a time.[/quote]

Justin,

Well spotted . . .

That being said I really believe that the 12-day intro is vital to the success on the AD. Even with Poliquin’s methods he talks about an induction phase being important to shift into FFB mode.

All in all, if it’s the AD you want to pursue, then a 12-day induction should be a part of the program.

Cheers,

Sasha