[quote]synny wrote:
had 2 headaches over the last week, have had heaps of energy, does this mean ive nearly converted to fat burning mode? this weekend will be my carb up if im sure ive adapted…
anyone got advice/help?[/quote]
When did you start?
So your still following this diet Tribulus? What are your goals right now?
[quote]synny wrote:
had 2 headaches over the last week, have had heaps of energy, does this mean ive nearly converted to fat burning mode? this weekend will be my carb up if im sure ive adapted…
anyone got advice/help?[/quote]
You know, I never got the “crash” that other people talk about during my induction phase, and I wasn’t really sure if I was fat-adapted or not. IMO, if you’ve done the 12 days, go ahead and do your carb-load. Keep it clean, don’t gorge, you’ll be fine. It took me a couple carb loads to feel a difference when I went back to the low-carb days. I’m sure the more experienced guys will agree that it takes a few weeks (or even months) before your body really becomes adapted to the AD.
So, I think I’m trying this. I’m a card-carrying starchball and looking to change my habits & lose fat without sacrificing strength gains. Very tentative; if my kitchen situation/budget this summer can’t cope with large amounts of meat, I’m going to have to bail. But had my first day (probably my very first low-carb day in my life) and it feels fine. The nice thing is that nobody is going to look at your plate and ask why you’re on a “diet” because really you’re not; it’s still plenty of food, just different food. I may be stopping in from time to time to ask questions. Also looking forward to trying “Cucina Anabolica Italiana” recipes.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
So your still following this diet Tribulus? What are your goals right now?[/quote]
Fairly close, some modifications, but still adapted for sure. 3 years in August. Still gaining. About 5500 cals a day. Still not lean, but still not fat. Gains are harder to come by these days not being so young any more, but workin harder than ever.
Just read the new eat your lungs out article…could it be true that carbs arent ever needed?
tiribulus, i started last monday, going have my first carb weekend this saturday morning to around midday sunday.
ive gotta eat 480g of carbs a day, i wont be eating like everyone else does, will keep it clean as, sweet pots, oats, bran, brown rice etc. Over the whole weekend ill prolly have a home made pizza and ice cream with my girl, but that would be it, its just the person i am.
[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
Just read the new eat your lungs out article…could it be true that carbs arent ever needed?[/quote]
It’s an interesting question macky, that’s also the impression that article gave me. I figure we (on the AD) are using carbs for a very specific purpose, to mainpulate an insulin response in our bodies and of course restore some glycogen to our muscles. Perhaps if we had slightly more carbs on an everyday basis, we wouldn’t need the weekly carb load? IDK, it’s certainly something to think about.
Maybe this has been answered upthread, but how bad was the adaptation side-effect period for you and when did it happen? I have a week coming up when my workload will be light and I can “afford” to get sick, but I’m still a bit nervous given what I read in the article.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
nz6stringaxe wrote:
Sonido, I know it’s too late now, but when you said it’d be hard to get in your 3200cals, my first thought was “why 3200 cals?”
Well, duh, I know why you’re aiming for this regular amount of calories, but you just consumed roughly 10,000cals excess previously? Why would you eat more? I’m still in the process of learning to do this for some things, but I must stress listening to your body over your intellect! You do NOT know what is going on in your body as well as your body does. Would you like proof/references? How about the general knowledge that science still has countless mysteries to uncover in the nutrition world? Our bodies understand them; our brains don’t.
Whose opinion matters more, your brain’s or your body’s?
I urge everyone to pay more attention to their bodies. This is one reason I feel the AD is so detrimental. By the way, the bloating (if you didn’t already know) I imagine is just a response from pulling in your preexisting internal water stores in with the glycogen being produced. The water gets displaced and all of a sudden there’s no water in the places from which it came, so you’re horribly thirsty. I’m not sadistic enough to not drink when I’m that thirsty, but I wonder how it would affect you.
Very soon I’ll be back to taking a carbed protein drink with every workout. I’m excited to revisit ‘normal’ metabolism. The physiological things I’m reading in the ISSA books are very interesting to me at the moment. For example, the usage of fats, carbs, and protein as they pertain to different forms of exercise, differeing intensities, and rest. More and more sources point me in the direction to believe the AD is strictly a fat loss or maintenance option, but a horrible choice for performance athletes and even bodybuilders.
I’m not arguing for the AD but it is supposed to be monitered on how you feel and its supposed to “evolve” into an individual thing. Nothing says you have to gorge yourself on 10,000 calories in one day. It’s about finding what amount works for you.
[/quote]
Touche.
[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
Just read the new eat your lungs out article…could it be true that carbs arent ever needed?[/quote]
You really hate those carbs, huh bk? 
I’m leaning more towards carb cycling now personally.
And nothing you guys can say will stop me!!
But seriously, I think it will suit me better.
Psychologically and in terms of my lifestyle I don’t feel that the AD (at least for the moment) is ideal for me.
I seem to lose two days (three this week!) when I carb up because I just cannot control myself and I end up gorging uncontrollably.
I’m by no means knocking the AD (the problem definitely lies with me!) because it’s definitely an excellent tool but I’ve gone through the CC thread as well as reading several articles here and there and it seems more suited to me.
I’m definitely going to keep checking in on this thread though for the latest developments! hehe
I took a small bowl of oats (25g CHO) PWO yesterday and I’m going to do the same today.
Tomorrow is an off day so I’ll cut the carbs again then.
Saturday would have been my loading day so would you guys recommend I just treat it as a ‘high’ day? So perhaps 300-400g CHO early on in the day?
It’s my back/biceps day which is a pretty draining workout so I might have a P+F breakfast, work out shortly after and then start the ‘mini-load’ PWO.
Either that or just take 50g CHO or so PWO and keep it smoothed out for a couple of weeks, slowly reintroducing the carbs without any loads.
Thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I’m pretty unsure of the best course of action.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Maybe this has been answered upthread, but how bad was the adaptation side-effect period for you and when did it happen? I have a week coming up when my workload will be light and I can “afford” to get sick, but I’m still a bit nervous given what I read in the article.[/quote]
I, personally, never really had a problem with feeling bad or anything. I’ve heard that if you’re already eating fairly low-carb, the induction is easier. IDK, I always have energy issues anyway, comes from having three small children I guess. 
I think the most important thing is to keep track of your food for the purpose of counting carbs, but don’t worry about the kcals. Eat frequently, eat a ton of fat, and watch those carbs like a hawk. During this stage you have to be crazy paranoid about trace carbs and such, and it will be a lot easier if your tummy is full from fats. Oh yeah, and definitely invest in some ground flax seed, you’re going to want that fiber!
El sonido are you naturally very lean? It seems that way from your pic. I would agree with the decision of carb cycling over a CKD (thats what the AD diet is, regardless of what people say) when it comes to bulking, especially for those who aren’t very prone to fat gain. Fat loss is another story but carb cycling would still be a really good method for a lot of people.
I thought this was a really good article on carb cyling, I’d imagine you just increase overall calories while keeping ratio’s about the same when bulking. It’s long, about 17 pages as a Word Document http://www.intensemuscle.com/30423-carb-cycling.html
[quote]El Sonido wrote:
I’m leaning more towards carb cycling now personally.
And nothing you guys can say will stop me!!
But seriously, I think it will suit me better.
Psychologically and in terms of my lifestyle I don’t feel that the AD (at least for the moment) is ideal for me.
I seem to lose two days (three this week!) when I carb up because I just cannot control myself and I end up gorging uncontrollably.
I’m by no means knocking the AD (the problem definitely lies with me!) because it’s definitely an excellent tool but I’ve gone through the CC thread as well as reading several articles here and there and it seems more suited to me.
I’m definitely going to keep checking in on this thread though for the latest developments! hehe
I took a small bowl of oats (25g CHO) PWO yesterday and I’m going to do the same today.
Tomorrow is an off day so I’ll cut the carbs again then.
Saturday would have been my loading day so would you guys recommend I just treat it as a ‘high’ day? So perhaps 300-400g CHO early on in the day?
It’s my back/biceps day which is a pretty draining workout so I might have a P+F breakfast, work out shortly after and then start the ‘mini-load’ PWO.
Either that or just take 50g CHO or so PWO and keep it smoothed out for a couple of weeks, slowly reintroducing the carbs without any loads.
Thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I’m pretty unsure of the best course of action.[/quote]
Okay, I’m not going to try to bully you in to doing the AD or anything, but I do want to give you a couple of things to think about.
How many high-carb days were you planning to use in your CC? Why not just have a 12 hour carb load one weekend day and a 12 hour load mid-week? No one said your carb load had to be a caloric gorge-fest that leaves you unable to waddle through your front door. You can keep your kcals the same or just slightly higher by swapping out some of your fat and prot grams for carbs.
Also, there’s no rule that your carb load has to be on a weekend. If you always do a high-intensity workout on tuesday morning (for example), there’s no reason why you couldn’t start your carb load PWO tuesday. I think weekends are suggested as a convient time for most people, but you can do it whenever you want. By timing your carb load to fit your workouts, you can take full advantage of the massive wave of anabolic hormones you’re creating.
I just hate to see you give up so soon, and waste the effort of getting fat-adapted. Of course, the AD is not for everyone, and if you really hate it you should find something that you’ll be able to live with. But isn’t the AD kind of like a carb cycle anyway? Except you have the advantage of burning fat 24/7 and you’re never hungry.
It’s just my opinion, and like I said, you obviously need to go with what makes you happy and gives you the results you want. Just wanted to get you to think about it some more! lol
[quote]sunshne wrote:
AlisaV wrote:
Maybe this has been answered upthread, but how bad was the adaptation side-effect period for you and when did it happen? I have a week coming up when my workload will be light and I can “afford” to get sick, but I’m still a bit nervous given what I read in the article.
I, personally, never really had a problem with feeling bad or anything. I’ve heard that if you’re already eating fairly low-carb, the induction is easier. IDK, I always have energy issues anyway, comes from having three small children I guess. I think the most important thing is to keep track of your food for the purpose of counting carbs, but don’t worry about the kcals. Eat frequently, eat a ton of fat, and watch those carbs like a hawk. During this stage you have to be crazy paranoid about trace carbs and such, and it will be a lot easier if your tummy is full from fats. Oh yeah, and definitely invest in some ground flax seed, you’re going to want that fiber! :)[/quote]
Well, that’s a relief. Maybe it won’t hit me hard. Then again, I’ve eaten a lot of carbs my whole life (my default before I started tracking my diet was about 75% carbs!) so for all I know I’ll have more trouble than you. I am keeping track of trace carbs (thanks fitday) and eating more fat than usual and what feels like a boatload of meat. I also have protein powder which is going to be a great help.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
El sonido are you naturally very lean? It seems that way from your pic. I would agree with the decision of carb cycling over a CKD (thats what the AD diet is, regardless of what people say) when it comes to bulking, especially for those who aren’t very prone to fat gain. Fat loss is another story but carb cycling would still be a really good method for a lot of people.
I thought this was a really good article on carb cyling, I’d imagine you just increase overall calories while keeping ratio’s about the same when bulking. It’s long, about 17 pages as a Word Document http://www.intensemuscle.com/30423-carb-cycling.html
[/quote]
Thanks for the link, I’ll have a read through that.
I honestly don’t know if I’m NATURALLY lean - for 7 or 8 years as a child I was on some form of steroids for kidney dysfunction. I don’t know the type or the specifics of it all but basically I was extremely overweight and a big puffy ball of dough.
Obesity runs in my dad’s side of the family and his genes generally seem stronger than my mum’s as I have many of his features (my mum is blonde and fair while my dad is dark - as you can see, I’m not blonde!).
I did lose around 70lbs of net bodyweight over the past few years so the state I am in now is by no means the ‘usual’ or ‘standard’ for me.
I would have to say that no, I’m not naturally very lean.
(On a more personal note, I think that after years of being overweight/obese plus being bullied as a child for being fat, I do tend to have a bit of a warped perception of my body so it’s pretty weird having you ask that question!
That having been said, that ‘spare tire’ around the waist is an absolute bitch to get rid of, I know that for sure!)
I figure that with more carbs I will have the energy to work harder and add in a lot more cardio which SHOULD hopefully offset any potential fat gain, all the while improving body composition.
[quote]sunshne wrote:
Okay, I’m not going to try to bully you in to doing the AD or anything, but I do want to give you a couple of things to think about.
How many high-carb days were you planning to use in your CC? Why not just have a 12 hour carb load one weekend day and a 12 hour load mid-week? No one said your carb load had to be a caloric gorge-fest that leaves you unable to waddle through your front door. You can keep your kcals the same or just slightly higher by swapping out some of your fat and prot grams for carbs.
Also, there’s no rule that your carb load has to be on a weekend. If you always do a high-intensity workout on tuesday morning (for example), there’s no reason why you couldn’t start your carb load PWO tuesday. I think weekends are suggested as a convient time for most people, but you can do it whenever you want. By timing your carb load to fit your workouts, you can take full advantage of the massive wave of anabolic hormones you’re creating.
I just hate to see you give up so soon, and waste the effort of getting fat-adapted. Of course, the AD is not for everyone, and if you really hate it you should find something that you’ll be able to live with. But isn’t the AD kind of like a carb cycle anyway? Except you have the advantage of burning fat 24/7 and you’re never hungry.
It’s just my opinion, and like I said, you obviously need to go with what makes you happy and gives you the results you want. Just wanted to get you to think about it some more! lol[/quote]
Either you’re an extremely caring person or you’re just an AD-fanatic… or both!
Either way, I appreciate your reasoning a whole lot.
I have only recently had my loads at the weekend, they have moved around a lot because of my inconsistency with the timing, they were originally mid-week some time.
I didn’t have a plan set in stone just yet but I was thinking something along the lines of -
While I bulk I was going to do something like 2 high days for my hardest workouts (legs and back/biceps), 2 moderate days (for chest and chest/triceps), 1 low day (for shoulders), and 2 VERY low days (for off days).
The low days would be typical AD-style low-carb days.
When it came time to lean out, well, I didn’t have this part worked out just yet but I was thinking of keeping carbs and calories much lower and taking advantage of weekly refeeds/carb-ups to keep my metabolism chugging along.
The idea of two 12 hour loads has me intrigued though!
So really it’s just increasing the frequency of loads to every 3-4 days while making them smaller.
What would you suggest in terms of grams of CHO?
I would just keep calories the same I suppose and do something like 70% CHO / 20% Protein / 10% Fat (or just as little fat as possible).
Thoughts?
[quote]synny wrote:
tiribulus, i started last monday, going have my first carb weekend this saturday morning to around midday sunday.
ive gotta eat 480g of carbs a day, i wont be eating like everyone else does, will keep it clean as, sweet pots, oats, bran, brown rice etc. Over the whole weekend ill prolly have a home made pizza and ice cream with my girl, but that would be it, its just the person i am.
[/quote]
5 days is pushin it. I’d give it a couple more at least if it were me.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
synny wrote:
tiribulus, i started last monday, going have my first carb weekend this saturday morning to around midday sunday.
ive gotta eat 480g of carbs a day, i wont be eating like everyone else does, will keep it clean as, sweet pots, oats, bran, brown rice etc. Over the whole weekend ill prolly have a home made pizza and ice cream with my girl, but that would be it, its just the person i am.
5 days is pushin it. I’d give it a couple more at least if it were me.[/quote]
I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure he meant he started on the 11th “last monday” not this weeks monday the 18th.
Sonido, I’m not loading. I feel like it’s pointless. I’m using this time to keep my insulin levels low except for when it matters (pwo, and that’s it). I’ll be increasing my frequency to every workout shortly…and I’m also going to be reducing fats just a little to make up the caloric difference.
Here’s another point I’d like to address just as sort of a conjecture/notion. Adapting to the AD is a pretty serious change as demonstrated by feeling terrible for a week and then functioning completely fine on an ‘irregular’ diet. Here’s my idea: You’re fat-adapted, and your enzymes are more active…if you bring back carbohydrates as a small part of your diet (like switching the roles of carb to fat with regard to energy intake on a ‘typical’ diet), you can get their positive functions while maintaining a much more efficient way to metabolize lipids. I’m not sure if my thinking is scientifically accurate, but it seems to make logical sense.