My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part II

Im 80kgs and have been for ages. 185cm tall

ok guys wow, im pretty sure im not getting enough fat?

280g protein a day, i think thats a bit much?? mite bump it down to 200g as my long term goal is to be 200pounds.

and my fat is 125g

total is around 2000cals which is maintenance for me hence why im still 80kgs

the diet calls for me to eat around 3200cals. How do you get 60% of that from fat???

i need 1920cals of fat, 1120 of protein and 160 from carbs

how am i supposed to get more fat in, i dunno wat else i can add?

Some things I eat which help to get around 65% fat most days:

Lots of mega3 eggs - I make an oven omelette with 12eggs, 300g spinach, 500g FF cottage cheese & 100g grilled cheese on top = 4 days breaky @ 31g fat

Use whipping cream (4tbl spoons) in shakes wt EVOO & PB @ 80g fat also with 3 raw eggs and ice @ 20g fat + tastes good.

Chicken thigh - doesn?t dry out and tastes good add salad + mayo , EVOO & crushed walnuts @ 95g fat

Take 4tabs of Omega3 fish oil 3 x day @ 12g fat

I eat 100g of cheese in 1 meal @ 30g not too lean burger patty @ 25g 2 x week

Fillet steak 4 nights a week & salmon once.

Hope there?s some ideas 4u there…

[quote]synny wrote:
Im 80kgs and have been for ages. 185cm tall

ok guys wow, im pretty sure im not getting enough fat?

280g protein a day, i think thats a bit much?? mite bump it down to 200g as my long term goal is to be 200pounds.

and my fat is 125g

total is around 2000cals which is maintenance for me hence why im still 80kgs

the diet calls for me to eat around 3200cals. How do you get 60% of that from fat???

i need 1920cals of fat, 1120 of protein and 160 from carbs

how am i supposed to get more fat in, i dunno wat else i can add?

[/quote]

Hey guys,

Im looking to cut over the next 8 weeks by gradually tweaking the AD and cardio program. My 1st 8 weeks Ive made decent muscle gains nice fat loss but would really like to accelerate the fat loss now. Training = 3 x week upper / lower & would like change training routine for the last 2 weeks only… Any advice?

History

Weeks 1-6 - 18x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xSS cardio
Weeks 7-8 - 15x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xSS cardio

Plan

Week 9 - 14x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xHHIT cardio
Week 10 - 13x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xSS cardio (de-load)
Week 11 - 12x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xHHIT + 2xSS cardio
Week 12 - 12x - 24hr CHO-up - 2xHHIT + 2xSS cardio
Week 13 - 12x - 24hr CHO-up - 2xHHIT + 2xSS cardio
Week 14 - 12x - Mid + 12hr CHO-up - 3xHHIT + 2xSS cardio
Week 15 - 12x - 12hr CHO-up - 3xHHIT + 3xSS cardio
Week 16 - 12x - Mid + 1meal CHO-up - 3xHHIT + 2xSS cardio

HIIT = 5min warm up - 20min HIIT - 5min cooldown on off days
SS cardio = 10min SS post WO

Also should I lower fat to 50% and up protein to 40% @ 1.5xBW?

Thanks.

[quote]Nat7774 wrote:
Hey guys,

Im looking to cut over the next 8 weeks by gradually tweaking the AD and cardio program. My 1st 8 weeks Ive made decent muscle gains nice fat loss but would really like to accelerate the fat loss now. Training = 3 x week upper / lower & would like change training routine for the last 2 weeks only… Any advice?

History

Weeks 1-6 - 18x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xSS cardio
Weeks 7-8 - 15x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xSS cardio

Plan

Week 9 - 14x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xHHIT cardio
Week 10 - 13x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xSS cardio (de-load)
Week 11 - 12x - 36hr CHO-up - 2xHHIT + 2xSS cardio
Week 12 - 12x - 24hr CHO-up - 2xHHIT + 2xSS cardio
Week 13 - 12x - 24hr CHO-up - 2xHHIT + 2xSS cardio
Week 14 - 12x - Mid + 12hr CHO-up - 3xHHIT + 2xSS cardio
Week 15 - 12x - 12hr CHO-up - 3xHHIT + 3xSS cardio
Week 16 - 12x - Mid + 1meal CHO-up - 3xHHIT + 2xSS cardio

HIIT = 5min warm up - 20min HIIT - 5min cooldown on off days
SS cardio = 10min SS post WO

Also should I lower fat to 50% and up protein to 40% @ 1.5xBW?

Thanks.
[/quote]

Looks good on paper. You may want to use the HIIT sessions to ā€˜bookend’ you week. So, you would kickoff after a load with HIIT and do the second one just before starting HIIT.

Another option that works is using depletion workouts in the start of the week and tension training to maintain.

I would advise against lowering fat all over. Try first increasing energy expenditure.
Then try tapering the fat intake. eg: start out with 60% fat and the meal would have 50% fat.

E

[quote]Evil1 wrote:
Looks good on paper. You may want to use the HIIT sessions to ā€˜bookend’ you week. So, you would kickoff after a load with HIIT and do the second one just before starting HIIT.

Another option that works is using depletion workouts in the start of the week and tension training to maintain.

I would advise against lowering fat all over. Try first increasing energy expenditure.
Then try tapering the fat intake. eg: start out with 60% fat and the meal would have 50% fat.
E[/quote]

Good advice as always,

Im thinking I could use the depletion workouts for the last 2 weeks to really kick some ass. Do you have a preferred routine?

What would be the min weekly protein requirement /lb BW when decreasing cals like this?

Thanks.

[quote]Nat7774 wrote:
Evil1 wrote:
Looks good on paper. You may want to use the HIIT sessions to ā€˜bookend’ you week. So, you would kickoff after a load with HIIT and do the second one just before starting HIIT.

Another option that works is using depletion workouts in the start of the week and tension training to maintain.

I would advise against lowering fat all over. Try first increasing energy expenditure.
Then try tapering the fat intake. eg: start out with 60% fat and the meal would have 50% fat.
E

Good advice as always,

Im thinking I could use the depletion workouts for the last 2 weeks to really kick some ass. Do you have a preferred routine?

What would be the min weekly protein requirement /lb BW when decreasing cals like this?

Thanks.
[/quote]

I don’t know what the guys would recommend, but I use circuit training for my depletion workout on fridays before my carb load. Essentially I do a full-body workout with lightish weights (about 40% of my M.E.) with lots of reps. Think 20 reps per body part, for 2-3 sets. In between each set I do a metabolic interval, and I only rest for about 30 seconds between circiuts. So for example, one circuit would look like this:

1A Chest presses 15 @ 30 lb
1B jumping jacks @ 1 min
1C military overhead press w/squat 20 @ 10 lb
1D mountain climbers @ 30 seconds
1E v-ups @ 25

Repeat circuit 1 two more time without resting. Then rest for 30 seconds, and move on to another circiut. Do it for an hour, and I promise you’ll be weeping by the end. :wink:

[quote]Nat7774 wrote:
Good advice as always,

Im thinking I could use the depletion workouts for the last 2 weeks to really kick some ass. Do you have a preferred routine?

What would be the min weekly protein requirement /lb BW when decreasing cals like this?

Thanks.
[/quote]

The basic premise is lots of reps in a controlled fashion, and hit as many muscles as possible.
CT had a lactic acid circuit.
look for contest logs on this site and figure athlete to get an idea.
basically, do what you would normally do when cutting and then tweak it at the end. the alternative is to just keep lifting as heavy as possible and adding in 2-3 low intensity cardio sessions through the week, when you are preferentially burning fat.

Dr. D suggests dropping 200-500 cals per week. What you reduce is up to you. Some lose more with keeping fat high, some don’t.

E

Some questions to get more fat into my diet

my omega 3 eggs only have about 20g of fat in 4 eggs. only thing is i cant stand eggs.

i dont eat cheese, what kind of cheese has healthy fats?

and whipping cream i thought that was like stuff u put on a cheat meal?

Do walnuts have more fat than almonds?

and whats evoo?

thansk for your help so far guys

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Right.

That’s exemplified by John Berardi’s Get Shredded, Joel Marion’s Cheater’s Diet, and any cyclic ketogenic diet we’ve seen here.

Why do you disagree with the muscle gain part? From what I’ve seen in classic bodybuilding dogma, it’s what was the standard.

Also, I may clarify that my idea of high carb as it relates here comes together in my head more like a Zone ratio. The difference is just the splitting of the macros at various meals.[/quote]

I just meant higher like 45+%. It of course depends on the person though. Personally I would say having carbs for breakfast and PWO on workout days then see how it goes and if things are good try carbs for break fast on off days and go from there

[quote]Kassad wrote:

So if you’re trying to put on a significant amount of muscle mass on the AD, you need longer carb ups?
[/quote]

Or just higher calories in general. I don’t know if I would try a strict AD on a bulk though. If I was set on doing something like a AD I’d keep the refeeds lower and have carbs PWO at least.

Pumped, do you have any pics?
I hate thinking you look like Frank McGrath; it’s almost intimidating haha.

[quote]synny wrote:
Some questions to get more fat into my diet

my omega 3 eggs only have about 20g of fat in 4 eggs. only thing is i cant stand eggs.

i dont eat cheese, what kind of cheese has healthy fats?

and whipping cream i thought that was like stuff u put on a cheat meal?

Do walnuts have more fat than almonds?

and whats evoo?

thansk for your help so far guys[/quote]

There are many ways you can mask your eggs if you don’t like them.

  • Take them raw in your protein shakes.

  • Scrambled - ā€˜frittata’ style - with veggies and meat.

  • In the flax bread recipe I mentioned earlier in the thread (Healthy Food Recipes) although this of course isn’t exactly taking concentrated egg so probably isn’t of much help to you

  • Go back and find the cauliflower mash/bake or my ā€˜Cauli-Smashparagus’ recipe, you can put a few eggs in there and the taste will be nicely masked and will add a lot of substance and texture to the meal.

hmm… I thought I had more ideas than this but my mind has gone blank… ah yes:

  • Just be a MAN and drink those babies down raw, maybe with a little water and cinnamon! :stuck_out_tongue: hah I did this a few times but my digestion is a little weak so I bloated up pretty badly.

You might be thinking of WHIPPED cream.
Whipping cream is different, the ones I’ve seen are 35-40% (with typical coffee creamers being about 10-15% I think).
You’ll only need a few tablespoons at most.

My advice is to stop looking at things like that as a treat or guilty pleasure, the AD is basically reprogramming your metabolism. Before I realised I was milk-allergic it took me a while in my mind to get used to taking cream daily (aswell as eggs and bacon and endless butter and other fried goodies!).

Of course that’s if you are even viewing it like that… maybe I’m mistaken?

Anyway, http://www.nutritiondata.com is very useful -

Walnuts: Nuts, walnuts, english [Includes USDA commodity food A259, A257] Nutrition Facts & Calories

Almonds: Nuts, almonds [Includes USDA commodity food A256, A264] Nutrition Facts & Calories

And - http://www.ifindoubtjustgoogleit.com

XD

Oh, and EVOO = Extra Virgin Olive Oil.

So I messed up a bit recently, gained a little fat I think, judging by the mirror.

I made the mistake of cutting calories from 2800 to 2400 (on a weekly average, with days as low as 2100) while also reducing fat to around 55% or so. I really wasn’t ready for it and I just felt so drained and weak, not to mention UNMOTIVATED!

I also made the mistake of doing all of this without COFFEE! So I found myself feeling like a salted slug, to use a nice analogy.

I’m back on track though, I’m not so obsessively trying to count every macro to the 10th of a gram, just keeping a rough count and making sure I’m getting enough fat.
Still recovering a bit from carb-loading too early but I’m doing alright now, just need a few more days and I’m working hard to get ā€˜all depleted’ again in time for my next carb load on Monday.

I’m even following sunshne’s advice and I’ve drawn up a circuit for myself which I’m going to do after finishing this post.

I got some ā€˜Omega Oil’ today which is just Grapeseed, EVOO and Flaxseed (in that order) so I’m looking forward to using that for my tuna salads.
There are no ratios of the oils on the bottle so it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s about 1% flax, but what the hey, it’s a step in the right direction.
It was either that or some shitty-looking cheap EVOO in a totally clear glass bottle.

This has been said numerous times but I’ll repeat it just for those that are unaware - Get your oils in (ideally) tins or dark bottles/containers as the light can ruin the fats.

I also don’t use OO for cooking anymore, when I fry I just use butter and keep the OO for salads and other raw uses.

So anyway, I’m sticking firmly to maintenance calories for now with a big increase in pre-breakfast cardio, PWO SS cardio (or PWO SS CV to really go to town with the esoteric acronyms).

I also really neglected my ā€˜sprinterval’ sessions, as I like to call them. On low calories I’ve just had a lot less energy and motivation but I think this increased activity will result in a much more dramatic improvement in body composition - my chest for one has certainly never looked this good heh.

So you think you gained fat even though you lowered calories?

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
So you think you gained fat even though you lowered calories?[/quote]

Well a lot of it is definitely water retention, I seem to retain that shit like crazy.

You know what, I’m just going to keep my mouth shut/hands tied now because I’m still in such an early stage of this diet that I need to stop acting like a fool and jumping to conclusions while my body is still adjusting.

I just did 30 minutes of circuit training in front of a mirror and literally watched myself get ā€˜leaner’ throughout.
I’m going to shut the hell up for now and base this on a weekly or even bi-weekly basis instead of rambling on every few days about my latest developments!

Okay, so. I found out about the 12 day induction on about day 14. so i never went 12 days no carb. i just started out 5 days no carb then 2 carb up days until now. i’m on day 23, but last friday i cheated. ( grr i hated it too ) and i ate something with a ton of carbs… so, after carbing up last weekend, should i this weekend instead have a no carb weekend and week, then next weekend carb up…? or should i just carb up this weekend and keep on doing what i’m doing instead of a mid month 12 day induction ( since i never really had it. )

Sorry about the wall… thanks!

[quote]LogTrog wrote:
Okay, so. I found out about the 12 day induction on about day 14. so i never went 12 days no carb. i just started out 5 days no carb then 2 carb up days until now. i’m on day 23, but last friday i cheated. ( grr i hated it too ) and i ate something with a ton of carbs… so, after carbing up last weekend, should i this weekend instead have a no carb weekend and week, then next weekend carb up…? or should i just carb up this weekend and keep on doing what i’m doing instead of a mid month 12 day induction ( since i never really had it. )

Sorry about the wall… thanks![/quote]

I would just continue as you were.
Carb up as normal this weekend, keep it clean, keep it controlled.
And as for the following week, again, keep it under control and keep a close eye on your carb intake.

This is just my personal take but if I were you I’d do a whole lot of cardio and depletion workouts. I’m a fan of circuit training now thanks to sunshne and will do that for at least 30 minutes a day now.

Pick a half dozen exercises with light weights (or bodyweight) and just go all out for a predetermined amount of time, hit different body parts for a real thorough workout.
So squats, presses, jumping jacks, press ups, on-the-spot jogging while holding weights/plates (I like to hold a bulky 25lb plate, gets my arms pretty pumped just clutching it) - whatever you HATE, do it!

But like I said, that’s just my personal take on it; just my $0.02.

El Son, that’s awesome you like the circuit! :slight_smile: I just did it this morning, but I do it as a group fitness class, which has it’s pitfalls. One of my fit gf’s just came back from a vacation, so we spent more time exercising our vocal chords than our muscles, lol. Luckily I was already pretty depleted, so it didn’t take much to wear me out. Sometimes if I’m feeling really energetic on my regular weight days, I’ll grab a jumprope and jump between my sets instead of just sitting there. That way I can skip a cardio session and not feel guilty. :wink:

[quote]sunshne wrote:
El Son, that’s awesome you like the circuit! :slight_smile: I just did it this morning, but I do it as a group fitness class, which has it’s pitfalls. One of my fit gf’s just came back from a vacation, so we spent more time exercising our vocal chords than our muscles, lol. Luckily I was already pretty depleted, so it didn’t take much to wear me out. Sometimes if I’m feeling really energetic on my regular weight days, I’ll grab a jumprope and jump between my sets instead of just sitting there. That way I can skip a cardio session and not feel guilty. ;)[/quote]

I’m experimenting with adapting some circuit plans, moving stuff around, switching it up but it’s good… fun?

I’m loving (hating) the mountain climbers! I never thought to do them before now.

I cooked up a hunk of pork today with some thick slab of fat on the side and I’ve been struggling not to gobble down the whole thing - it’s so damn good, cooked to crispy perfection!
Here’s where you all say ā€˜but you’re supposed to get your fats!’ but there’s a limit!

Oh my mouth is watering just thinking about those crispy morsels in the fridge waiting to be eaten… must… resist - tuna salad time!

I don’t mean to be all anti-AD here in this thread, but here’s what I’ve been pondering recently, objectively critiquing the AD.

I’ve noticed sudden fat gain.
Looking at my charts, calories may be a bit high; lowering them shouldn’t be a problem.
Here’s the catch though, eating the amount of calories I currently am feels ā€˜sufficient.’ Because fat is so energy-dense, I feel like it hurts you in that way; it’s too easy to overeat on ā€˜good foods’.

Here’s the other side to that: provided you have any sort of dietary control and active incentive to improve your diet to its utmost ideal state, you’re not going to be eating pastries, potato chips, or any sort of junk. In a diet containing carbs, I feel as though the carbs, having the same energy as protein, act as a preventative measure in going overboard with calories. Whenever I’ve eaten a yam on the AD, I’ve been instantly stuffed, and that’s a hefty 50-80g carbs right there. Furthermore, carbs, when coming from proper sources, are more satiating than a bunch of meat and oil. Whenever I brown some meat and throw in some vegetables (and eat it), there’s almost like a missing element in my stomach; an element hunger that hasn’t been dealt with.

On top of that, carbs are just far more anabolic!

Here’s one thing that really irks me, though. I didn’t really hone in on it clearly until today when I was at the supermarket. You’re restricting carbs. Sure, you get them once a week/on the weekend…but Friday, don’t you get just a little TOO excited about your carbs? This looks like an unhealthy psychological pattern to me. It makes total sense to covet such wondrous goodies when dieting, but this is how the normal AD lifestyle operates! Combine this starved psychological lust for carbs with an inability to thoroughly satisfy hunger and fuel hard training throughout the week, and you get a dietary map that just doesn’t seem to make that much sense.

Now, I may be being unfair with regards to how we all deal with carb metabolism. I’m not exactly sure how well I deal with carbs, but I know I was never over 20% bodyfat or anything near it.

Finally, from a culinary standpoint, I think it’s absolutely AWESOME that some of these creative recipes have arisen, but how much easier would it be to just include moderate carbs!?

I wish I could read faster because this Ketogenic Diet book is giving me so much information and understanding. However, based on my experience thus far, the AD is a bit too extreme at least for my tastes.

I wish we had more examples of bodies ā€˜sculpted by the AD’. The only guy I can remember is Modok(?), who seemed to work very hard. As a bodybuilder I think the crowning achievement of the AD is the ā€˜carb loading practice’, but beyond that, little else unless you’re dieting down.

I found this interesting study the other day:

ā€˜ā€œFat adaptationā€ for athletic performance: the nail in the coffin?’

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/100/1/7

As for what you said nz6stringaxe - the psychological side of the AD is probably the worst part of it for me.
For the first couple of cycles I had minimal cravings and was really focused and feeling fully satiated. That does seem to be changing recently though. I’m going to stick at at for AT LEAST several more cycles and really ride it out but I am starting to get a bit tired of the extreme excitement I feel before every carb load.

I would say it’s like a kid on Christmas Eve, that’s how I looked at it to begin with.
Now it’s starting to seem more like I’ve been strolling through an arid desert all week and have just spotted an oasis on the horizon!

I mean seriously, it’s pretty sick.
By the end of my carb load just about every piece of cutlery and kitchenware is dirty and piled up around the kitchen and the place is a filthy mess with flour, crumbs, broken bits of spaghetti everywhere etc…

I’m a pretty clean tidy person by nature but this is just representative of what a state I get into.
Starting from the night before until the morning after - CARBS are just about all I can think of, I cannot focus on anything else.

I feel as if it should be embarrassing but it’s only as embarrassing as a starving man dropping to his knees for scraps of food!

Haha! I mean you only have to look back over this and the first AD thread to see the sheer anticipation of carb-loading on everyone’s minds!