My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part II

Nutrition
401

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Ronaldo makes a point that’s been on my mind recently. His point also is directly related to why I’m stopping in.

I just got back from the gym, and according to the mirror, I’m fatter. I had roughly 4,000cals yesterday (GVT quads and shoulders for training) with the caloric ratios being pretty close. My carb intake was about 400g.

I don’t understand.

The AD is really starting to push me away. The whole argument MD makes as to why this is a superior physique/performance athlete’s diet is because it manages bodyfat levels better than a typical high-carb diet.

This brings up another question, what exactly is this typical diet he refers to?? The North American diet? The rigid following of the common RDA guidelines??

As nutritionally conscious athletes, I think the standard referred to as the AD’s inferior alternative is much lower than that which we live and train by!

Carb-cycling sounds better and better…

By the way…the point ronaldo made was one that I thought about with Berardi’s Getting Unshredded. He stresses reintroducing carbs lightly and over a long period of time. Doesn’t this contradict the carb fests of the AD weekends? See what I’m getting at? After such restriction, wouldn’t you be so overly sensitive to carbs that it just ruins the effect?[/quote]

NZ I suggest you get Lyle McDonald’s Ketogenic Diet book to evaluate your diet going forward. As soon as I finish cycling back up to maintenance calories, I’ll be moving away from the AD. I am going to stay low carb because I definitely operate much better on low carbs, my greatest take away from this whole experience. However, I want to be able to have a fruit serving in the morning and some carbs post workout to produce better results on my weight lifting goals. I don’t like how I have to cycle my workouts based on when my carb loads were and how much I have left in the glycogen tank. I think the AD, a type of CKD diet is a great option when cutting, but not for my goals during maintenance and bulking periods.

4000 calories is a lot for you, I would expect you to get fatter from that, especially coming off the get shredded calorie levels. I am still ratcheting it up from my cut and am only at 2350 a day at 180 pounds. If I took in 4000 calories, I’d need to workout 4 hours a day to get myself into energy balance right now with the reduced metabolism.

402

Good thing I have that book in a major stash of dozens and dozens of related books I have recently procured from the internet…

I’ll take a look at it.

The 4,000 was only for my one-day carb load, but perhaps I’m taking it a bit too fast in general.

403

Y’know what - I’ve done a lot of thinking and reading today and decided I’m going to try carb cycling.

I’ve calculated all my ratios so I’m ready to go, I’m just not sure about the timing.

Does anyone have any idea about a good strategy for upping my carbs so dramatically without suffering equally ‘dramatic’ fat gain?
I know this has been asked before but I haven’t found any conclusive answers.

I’m definitely going to keep the AD ‘on the shelf’, so to speak, as I think it may prove to be a very useful tool for cutting in the future.

Perhaps I might start an official ‘My Experience On a Carb-Cycling Diet’ thread heh

404

El Sonido, the best way as per my knowledge to go into carb cycling isn’t to just start, but to taper your nutrients.

Over the course of a few weeks you should reintroduce a carb meal at increasing frequencies (once every 7 days, 5 days, 3-4 days, 2-3 days, 1 day…)

During the whole thing, I’d keep the raw carb amount fairly low; a small-medium meal: A bowl of oats with berries, a small serving of pasta or rice, something of that nature…

I would also make sure to make the sources the best you could possibly make them. Reintroducing the starchier vegetables, starting with peas, lima beans, and carrots would be good too.

Indy, did you refer that book to me for the information and understanding of this sort of physiology or to help give me paths to edit my personal Anabolic Diet?

405

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
El Sonido, the best way as per my knowledge to go into carb cycling isn’t to just start, but to taper your nutrients.

Over the course of a few weeks you should reintroduce a carb meal at increasing frequencies (once every 7 days, 5 days, 3-4 days, 2-3 days, 1 day…)

During the whole thing, I’d keep the raw carb amount fairly low; a small-medium meal: A bowl of oats with berries, a small serving of pasta or rice, something of that nature…

I would also make sure to make the sources the best you could possibly make them. Reintroducing the starchier vegetables, starting with peas, lima beans, and carrots would be good too.[/quote]

Would this be in addition to the regular carb-loads?
Or would it be wiser to reduce them by a certain amount each time to level things out? Say 100-150g less each time…?
(Thanks for the tips.)

406

[quote]KingIndy wrote:
I think the AD, a type of CKD diet is a great option when cutting, but not for my goals during maintenance and bulking periods.

[/quote]

Interestingly, I have found the opposite to be true for me. I feel like on maintenance or excess cals, my stores get me through the week just fine and I continue to progress in the gym. When on a deficit though, my end of the week workouts seem to suck really bad.

407

I agree with DJS. Ive been making progress on 3000. However, since I didnt drop the carb load weight from when I started I reduced cals to 2800 and reduced carb load to all out clean one day. This Saturday I’ll assess my weight again to see whats up.

408

sure its not bloat from the carb load? couldve gotten in too much…oh and I recal your upping your sodium intake, adjusting to that could also be it. Re-evaluate your situation and take in all factors.

409

that last post was directed to nz.

410

I know bloat and I know fat. I’m very sensitive to such changes. Whenever I’m afraid it’s fat, it is. Bloat dissipates, fat doesn’t. Today proves both that it is fat and that I can now trust my instincts on this matter as I’ve never been wrong or unsure the few times I’ve experienced this.

I was reading a bit of the Ketogenic Diet last night, and I developed a query…

What’s the difference between TKD and Carb-Cycling?

411

[quote]DJS wrote:
KingIndy wrote:
I think the AD, a type of CKD diet is a great option when cutting, but not for my goals during maintenance and bulking periods.

Interestingly, I have found the opposite to be true for me. I feel like on maintenance or excess cals, my stores get me through the week just fine and I continue to progress in the gym. When on a deficit though, my end of the week workouts seem to suck really bad. [/quote]

If you are taking yourself to depletion and back to full stores weekly, there should be no difference. The only difference is the amount of energy you are providing your body with in order to be able to add muscle. However, if you aren’t reaching full glycogen storage on your loads (which you can still do while on a deficit), that could alter that statement. I just think the AD is a better option for fat loss goals than bulking goals because you are getting less anabolic frequency but keep yourself in a more consistent fat burning state.

412

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
I know bloat and I know fat. I’m very sensitive to such changes. Whenever I’m afraid it’s fat, it is. Bloat dissipates, fat doesn’t. Today proves both that it is fat and that I can now trust my instincts on this matter as I’ve never been wrong or unsure the few times I’ve experienced this.

I was reading a bit of the Ketogenic Diet last night, and I developed a query…

What’s the difference between TKD and Carb-Cycling?[/quote]

When talking about results and fat-loss there isn’t any. TKD diets usually have you try and change your metabolism to burn fat for energy. Not to burst anyone’s bubble but a TKD diet does NOT equal faster fat-loss or even staying leaner when gaining. You can stay lean when “bulking” you just need to eat the right amount of protein and calories.

413

It seems as though it all comes back to ‘timing is everything’. I feel like these low-carb approaches are selling their techniques to favor a reduced chance of making a mistake or something.

414

[quote]weight junky wrote:
I read earlier in the thread that when on the AD you should avoid fat loss pills(like Hydroxycut) and when counting carbs that you shouldn’t count dietary fibers, is that true, and why should I be avoiding my hydroxycut? [/quote]

Wasn’t there just some government warning about hydroxycut?

lol…

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Ronaldo makes a point that’s been on my mind recently. His point also is directly related to why I’m stopping in.

I just got back from the gym, and according to the mirror, I’m fatter. I had roughly 4,000cals yesterday (GVT quads and shoulders for training) with the caloric ratios being pretty close. My carb intake was about 400g.

I don’t understand.

[/quote]

How is that the AD? was that your carb up day? if soo that means only 40% of calories came from carbs which I’m not saying is necessarily bad but maybe you had too much fat along with the carbs? and like the other poster said, 4000 is a lot depending on how much you were previously having. How much are you having during the week?

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:

The AD is really starting to push me away. The whole argument MD makes as to why this is a superior physique/performance athlete’s diet is because it manages bodyfat levels better than a typical high-carb diet.

This brings up another question, what exactly is this typical diet he refers to?? The North American diet? The rigid following of the common RDA guidelines??

As nutritionally conscious athletes, I think the standard referred to as the AD’s inferior alternative is much lower than that which we live and train by!

Carb-cycling sounds better and better…

By the way…the point ronaldo made was one that I thought about with Berardi’s Getting Unshredded. He stresses reintroducing carbs lightly and over a long period of time. Doesn’t this contradict the carb fests of the AD weekends? See what I’m getting at? After such restriction, wouldn’t you be so overly sensitive to carbs that it just ruins the effect?[/quote]

No, your are actually more insulin sensitive (good thing) after a period of low carbs. It’s just not good to have a high amount like that for EXTENDED periods of time. Many carb cycling methods have a refeed as well. The AD is basically a form of carb cycling itself.

[quote]KingIndy wrote:

NZ I suggest you get Lyle McDonald’s Ketogenic Diet book to evaluate your diet going forward. As soon as I finish cycling back up to maintenance calories, I’ll be moving away from the AD. I am going to stay low carb because I definitely operate much better on low carbs, my greatest take away from this whole experience. However, I want to be able to have a fruit serving in the morning and some carbs post workout to produce better results on my weight lifting goals. I don’t like how I have to cycle my workouts based on when my carb loads were and how much I have left in the glycogen tank. I think the AD, a type of CKD diet is a great option when cutting, but not for my goals during maintenance and bulking periods.

4000 calories is a lot for you, I would expect you to get fatter from that, especially coming off the get shredded calorie levels. I am still ratcheting it up from my cut and am only at 2350 a day at 180 pounds. If I took in 4000 calories, I’d need to workout 4 hours a day to get myself into energy balance right now with the reduced metabolism.[/quote]

I agree with all of that. As for the thing about having fruit for breakfast and carbs PWO thats another method of carb cycling or a TKD. Many people do that along with a once a week refeed, depending on your goals.

415

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
I know bloat and I know fat. I’m very sensitive to such changes. Whenever I’m afraid it’s fat, it is. Bloat dissipates, fat doesn’t. Today proves both that it is fat and that I can now trust my instincts on this matter as I’ve never been wrong or unsure the few times I’ve experienced this.

I was reading a bit of the Ketogenic Diet last night, and I developed a query…

What’s the difference between TKD and Carb-Cycling?[/quote]

A TKD is a form of carb cycling.

and guys theres already a thread on carb cycling: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/carbs_cycling_experience?id=2921580&pageNo=0

as you can see there are still refeeds (some too large IMO) and it’s not that different. Personally I like the option of carbs just PWO and 1 refeed when cutting and when bulking adding in carbs for breakfast on workout days…probably still a refeed once a week but I haven’t tested that yet.

also a lot of you guys seem to be getting caught up in hype switching things too fast. I’m not saying I love the AD but you shouldn’t do it for 3 weeks then switch refeeds for 2 weeks then switch to carb cycling. Most people would need more time to make small adjustments and see how it goes

416

I agree with pumped, insofar as you guys seem to be switching things around awefully quickly. A diet that entails a major change in your eating behaviors will take a while to show results. And I think you have to ask yourself what the timeline is for your goals. Do you have a deadline for a contest? Then perhaps a more extreme diet with quick results (such a the V Diet) would be a good option for you. Understand, though, that those types of diets are short-term, and not meant to be a lifestyle. If your goal is to decrease your bodyfat in a permanent and healthy fashion, then AD or carb-cycling will help you achieve that. BUT long-term fat loss can be a slow process! Especially if you are already fairly lean! Your body wants to hold on to that fat. And buidling muscle at the same time is also a slow process. Be patient!
Believe me, I understand the desire for rapid results.

When I first started losing the “baby” weight (haha, my youngest baby is 2!), it came of very rapidly. But I’ve gotten to a point where my progress has slowed considerably. I could cut my calories drastically, do cardio until I collapse, and drop a few points in bf within a couple of month I suppose… But how healthy is that really? IMO, it’s much better to be patient, and adopt a healthy outlook about fitness and diet.
Just IMHO, sorry to get all “mom” on you guys. :slight_smile:

417

pumped340 you’re totally right.
I’ve been thinking a lot these past couple of days and I’m still pretty undecided.

I feel a bit stupid to be honest because I jumped to some pretty nonsensical conclusions in my head about this and that.

Basically I worked out that my carb-load was definitely not enough - I was foolish enough to halve my carb intake while probably increasing my work volume by 50% or more so I think I’ve probably been stuck in ketosis the past couple of days.

I’ve felt like absolute shit, tired, weak, lethargic, it affected my mood somewhat too and it also apparently seems to have affected my judgement!

I loaded on Friday so it’s possible I’m being a bit hasty with the ‘ketosis’ conclusion.
And to top it all off I cracked today, I just felt so shitty I decided to have some oats+raisins PWO for a 50g carb booster.

I felt ok for an hour or less and then felt all crashed out again and I ended up downing a big pile of spaghetti and a plate-sized piece of homemade WW bread.
I’m going to eat some more carbs for half of tomorrow and make sure I’m fully restocked for the next 5 days because it has really been affecting my workouts - I’ve even strained my back squatting!

Ahhh! What’s happening?

418

[quote]sunshne wrote:
I agree with pumped, insofar as you guys seem to be switching things around awefully quickly. A diet that entails a major change in your eating behaviors will take a while to show results. And I think you have to ask yourself what the timeline is for your goals. Do you have a deadline for a contest? Then perhaps a more extreme diet with quick results (such a the V Diet) would be a good option for you. Understand, though, that those types of diets are short-term, and not meant to be a lifestyle. If your goal is to decrease your bodyfat in a permanent and healthy fashion, then AD or carb-cycling will help you achieve that. BUT long-term fat loss can be a slow process! Especially if you are already fairly lean! Your body wants to hold on to that fat. And buidling muscle at the same time is also a slow process. Be patient!
Believe me, I understand the desire for rapid results.

When I first started losing the “baby” weight (haha, my youngest baby is 2!), it came of very rapidly. But I’ve gotten to a point where my progress has slowed considerably. I could cut my calories drastically, do cardio until I collapse, and drop a few points in bf within a couple of month I suppose… But how healthy is that really? IMO, it’s much better to be patient, and adopt a healthy outlook about fitness and diet.
Just IMHO, sorry to get all “mom” on you guys. :)[/quote]
That’s cool since it sounds like you’re a MILF…okay okay I’ll stop :-/.

419

[quote]sunshne wrote:
I agree with pumped, insofar as you guys seem to be switching things around awefully quickly. A diet that entails a major change in your eating behaviors will take a while to show results. And I think you have to ask yourself what the timeline is for your goals. Do you have a deadline for a contest? Then perhaps a more extreme diet with quick results (such a the V Diet) would be a good option for you. Understand, though, that those types of diets are short-term, and not meant to be a lifestyle. If your goal is to decrease your bodyfat in a permanent and healthy fashion, then AD or carb-cycling will help you achieve that. BUT long-term fat loss can be a slow process! Especially if you are already fairly lean! Your body wants to hold on to that fat. And buidling muscle at the same time is also a slow process. Be patient!
Believe me, I understand the desire for rapid results.

When I first started losing the “baby” weight (haha, my youngest baby is 2!), it came of very rapidly. But I’ve gotten to a point where my progress has slowed considerably. I could cut my calories drastically, do cardio until I collapse, and drop a few points in bf within a couple of month I suppose… But how healthy is that really? IMO, it’s much better to be patient, and adopt a healthy outlook about fitness and diet.
Just IMHO, sorry to get all “mom” on you guys. :)[/quote]

sunshne I appreciate the reality check, really.
I think I often forget that I am still a complete noob, and an over-zealous, carbed-up noob at that.

Anyway, a kindly bitchslap goes a long way once in a while, thank you!

420

[quote]sunshne wrote:
I agree with pumped, insofar as you guys seem to be switching things around awefully quickly. A diet that entails a major change in your eating behaviors will take a while to show results. And I think you have to ask yourself what the timeline is for your goals. Do you have a deadline for a contest? Then perhaps a more extreme diet with quick results (such a the V Diet) would be a good option for you. Understand, though, that those types of diets are short-term, and not meant to be a lifestyle. If your goal is to decrease your bodyfat in a permanent and healthy fashion, then AD or carb-cycling will help you achieve that. BUT long-term fat loss can be a slow process! Especially if you are already fairly lean! Your body wants to hold on to that fat. And buidling muscle at the same time is also a slow process. Be patient!
Believe me, I understand the desire for rapid results.

When I first started losing the “baby” weight (haha, my youngest baby is 2!), it came of very rapidly. But I’ve gotten to a point where my progress has slowed considerably. I could cut my calories drastically, do cardio until I collapse, and drop a few points in bf within a couple of month I suppose… But how healthy is that really? IMO, it’s much better to be patient, and adopt a healthy outlook about fitness and diet.
Just IMHO, sorry to get all “mom” on you guys. :)[/quote]

Yeah good posts! I’m getting great results started @ 18x for the 1st 6 weeks then the last 2 I have dropped to 15x I will keep this up and drop to 12x 6 weeks out of my goal (35th birthday) and add HIIT 2xweek to cut up for 16weeks total then I’ll reassess goals, training & diet. So far muscle is great fatloss good + I really enjoy eating this way. BTW been training with SPBR ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8050.

Keep up the good posts.