My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part II

Nutrition
361

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:

I wanted to share something I just observed. My hunger is greater now (2200-2700cal) than it was at 1600.

I find this very perplexing.[/quote]

nz, my guess would be that your metabolism is kicking in and making you feel hungry. Honestly, I don’t know how you survived on 1600 cal, that seems horribly low.
I’m eating about 2,000 cal right now, and still losing…and I assume you have a lot more LBM than I do. I seem to recall you have spent quite a while at sub-maintainence calories, yes?

362

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
I was looking on that bodyrecomposition.com site earlier and saw some great things. You should all check it out, particularly the Baseline Diet (more specifically part 2).

I wanted to share something I just observed. My hunger is greater now (2200-2700cal) than it was at 1600.

I find this very perplexing.[/quote]

I’m definitely not as hungry now as what I was when I was taking in 1800 a day nz. My libido has definitely been picking up this week though, thank god. Get those T levels back up! I’m taking in 2350 calories a day this week and will be increasing 100 per week until I arrive at maintenance. I’m definitely not satisfied or full ever at this level (still always thinking about my next meal), but I was tired and starving before.

363

Yeah, I spent a good while sub-maintenance. I never took true dietary logs until the AD, so I’m actually under the impression that even when I used to eat ‘a lot,’ the caloric value wasn’t quite as high as I estimated. To be honest, there is in fact a good feeling about eating very little. You never feel bloated; each meal feels very nourishing; you also never feel like you’re over-fueling. I’d be lying if I said there weren’t times where I’d be hungry, though.

Indy, I remember getting quite aroused at the girl squatting in yesterday’s article haha. I just finished reading Question of Strength and thought Poliquin’s sleep quality recommendation was very interesting.

I first noticed a lack of morning wood preparing for my competition last year, but that totally makes sense, and furthermore, when I gorged myself the next day I was horny as hell and had a little nocturnal emission to go with it haha. I am a bit concerned about my T levels though because morning wood isn’t very significant at the moment. I feel like it’s a carb, thing to be honest. I’ll be looking out for indicators when I carb load this weekend.

364

I think I’m beginning to understand the ketosis controversy.

[quote]NM: That was the principle which Tim and TC used when putting together the Biotest line. Tell me, you were one of the first proponents of the high-fat/low-carb diet. What’s the main difference between the Anabolic Diet that you developed and the presently popular Ketogenic Diet?

MD: When I wrote the Anabolic Diet, I wasn’t trying to present an academic hypothesis. I wanted to write about something that would work. These days, there seems to be a lot of emphasis on ketosis, but it’s all pretty useless. Staying in a ketogenic state basically means that you haven’t adapted to the diet. If ketones are being excreted in the urine (which is how you determine ketosis) by using “keto-sticks,” then you’re not utilizing ketones for energy very efficiently. Someone who is optimally using fat for fuel should not have ketones in their urine.

NM: Whoa, let me back this up for a second. So what you’re saying is, if one were efficiently using ketones for energy and lipolysis on a carb depleted diet…it shouldn’t produce a state of ketosis?

MD: That’s correct. If you’ve adapted fully to the diet.

NM: So it’s not preferable to be in ketosis if the objective is fat loss?

MD: That’s right. This is where I differ from everybody else and why the Anabolic Diet is so effective where others are not. Ketosis is very catabolic! First of all, the Anabolic Diet keeps you at 30 grams of carbs a day, five days a week. That keeps you out of ketosis, but the body begins to adapt to using fat for fuel. On the weekend, you can eat as many carbs as you like. That’s the anabolic phase, but the body is still in a fatburning mode. Once there’s a spillover of carb calories to fat storage, after no more than 48 hours, you go back to 30 carbohydrate grams a day. Basically, this is meant to be a diet that can be followed easily. Who wants to wake up at night to eat or spend each hour of the day watching exactly how many calories you eat? What’s interesting is that I’ve found that triglyceride levels rise on the days when high carbs are ingested.[/quote]

365

Gotta say mashed cauliflower is damned tasty!! MMM what i do though is, microwave a bag of frozen cauli, blend in my blender, keep it on while adding a TBS of fish oil, flax oil, and cream, along with 3 TBS of water. throw your spice cabinet in now or later. Grab rubber scraper and dish out!! MMM GOOD!

366

Yeah, I tried the old potato masher and the blender before, and the blender proves to be far superior.

367

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:

I think I’m beginning to understand the ketosis controversy.

NM: That was the principle which Tim and TC used when putting together the Biotest line. Tell me, you were one of the first proponents of the high-fat/low-carb diet. What’s the main difference between the Anabolic Diet that you developed and the presently popular Ketogenic Diet?

MD: When I wrote the Anabolic Diet, I wasn’t trying to present an academic hypothesis. I wanted to write about something that would work. These days, there seems to be a lot of emphasis on ketosis, but it’s all pretty useless. Staying in a ketogenic state basically means that you haven’t adapted to the diet. If ketones are being excreted in the urine (which is how you determine ketosis) by using “keto-sticks,” then you’re not utilizing ketones for energy very efficiently. Someone who is optimally using fat for fuel should not have ketones in their urine.

NM: Whoa, let me back this up for a second. So what you’re saying is, if one were efficiently using ketones for energy and lipolysis on a carb depleted diet…it shouldn’t produce a state of ketosis?

MD: That’s correct. If you’ve adapted fully to the diet.

NM: So it’s not preferable to be in ketosis if the objective is fat loss?

MD: That’s right. This is where I differ from everybody else and why the Anabolic Diet is so effective where others are not. Ketosis is very catabolic! First of all, the Anabolic Diet keeps you at 30 grams of carbs a day, five days a week. That keeps you out of ketosis, but the body begins to adapt to using fat for fuel. On the weekend, you can eat as many carbs as you like. That’s the anabolic phase, but the body is still in a fatburning mode. Once there’s a spillover of carb calories to fat storage, after no more than 48 hours, you go back to 30 carbohydrate grams a day. Basically, this is meant to be a diet that can be followed easily. Who wants to wake up at night to eat or spend each hour of the day watching exactly how many calories you eat? What’s interesting is that I’ve found that triglyceride levels rise on the days when high carbs are ingested.[/quote]

I would say I agree with that for the most part. Most experts on the topic have stated that ketosis itself isn’t necessary and that its just the low carbs/high fat that is beneficial. MD saying that his diet is superior because 30g of carbs for 5 days doesn’t put you in ketosis is a little ridiculous though considering 5 days very low carb, 2 days high carb is one way to do a keto diet and is outlined in “The ketogenic diet” as a possible option.

To say you can just eat as many carbs as you want on weekends is wrong IMO but he says once there’s spillover you basically stop which I agree with but most people won’t be able to tell when that point is. Literally the only differenc I’m seeing at all is that the AD has more fat on carb up days

368

With that said it may be beneficial to discuss the protein vs. fat on carb up days as a primary source of the remaining calories.

369

Yeah, I agree that that’s a worthy topic.

I feel like most of it should come from carbs, say like 60-75%, and then split the protein and fat down the middle for the remainder. It’s obvious carbs are what’s important.

If one of the other nutrients were to be favored, …hm. I guess my thought process can go either way on this one.

More fats: continue the protein-sparing metabolic trend you’ve begun and ignore the protein.
More protein: deny your bloodstream the horrible FFA/insulin combo, perhaps shuttling more aminos into the cells, perhaps use more bodyfat if fat is needed.

I’m not saying my thought process is adequate, correct, or sufficiently informed, but based on that alone, I feel like fat would take the backseat in the ideal world.

370

I’m loading today and I’ve decided to give low-fat a try.

I’m limiting my fat intake to just what naturally occurs in the carb-foods.

I’m sticking to a strict 600g over the course of today with 400-450g starches and 150-200g sugars. How does that sugar/starch ratio sound?

I’m doing everything I can to be super-strict today with my meal timings and portion sizes.
Last week was a real ordeal when I just HAD to have rye bread + PB + dried fruit on day two instead of cutting the load short there.

I spent a large part of the day in bed, I’ve never felt so thoroughly CRASHED in my entire life. My body was paralysed but my mind was running all over the place like a drunken maniac from thought to thought.

I was phasing in and out of sleep for 4-6 hours, having the most obscure dreams.
It was like some kind of fever or bad drug reaction.

So yeah, that really horrified me and knocked me into reasserting my self-discipline.

Today I’ve got things like:

Oats + dried fruit (No PB!)
WW Spaghetti + tomatoes + garlic (no OO)
Brown rice + butternut squash
Maybe some more oats + 1 banana + 1 apple

I still have another 200g or so to make up and there has been cans of lima and fava beans sitting on the shelf for months now so I might make some kind of chili with them.

I’d like to put some protein in there somewhere, maybe a couple tins of tuna.

I guess I’ll just make my 600g carbs the main priority and see what happens for the rest.

371

I’ve been on the AD for some time now. Recently I started taking TRIBEX Gold. The label recommends a 5 day on 2 day off cycle. I do the AD with a 2 day carb up. Should I match the cycles so I am off both for the same 2 days?

372

Water retention is kicking my ass! It just stays on me! Still havent lost the weight from my carb up…I think Ill make it cleaner I suppose since I was at a free sampling food event…Whats the consensus of adding sea salt to meals during the week? Just re-read scott ables Sodium, secret weapon article and he recommends upward towards 6-7000mg for someone my size. Im just now trying it out (started yesterday) for now to see what happens.

373

El Sonido, I know exactly what you mean about crashing during the carb-up! Last week I felt like crap and I was a total bitch for two days while I carb loaded. My poor family! I had a few cheat foods, like cake and tortilla chips, and lowfat (sweetend) yogurt. So this week I’m going to keep it super clean and limit it to just today, and see how that goes.
I personally am in favor of keeping the carb load low-fat. I think that the anabolic environment created by all those carbs is perfect for giving the muscles a nice big dose of protein. I’m aiming to keep my fat under 50g and keep my protein at 1g per bodyweight. IDK, combining a lot of fat and carbs just makes me nervous! lol

374

Bmack, I’ve been salting everything. I bought some Redmond RealSalt as advertised on the Stuff We Like article last week.

I’ve noticed myself looking softer lately. I don’t really understand why. It makes me really mad, as if I suffered for a few months for nothing, or at least something not worth the degree of suffering.

I’ve logged everything since beginning the AD and am in total control of my calories. Out of curiosity, I wanted to see what my caloric intake TRULY looked like last summer, so I revisited my thought process back then regarding food and mapped out a sample day. Even though I consumed a very large volume of food, the energy behind it just was not as high as I thought. This fact alone makes me want to keep the AD onboard as I use a little GVT and Waterbury-style training to pack some meat on. It looks like I still have some things to figure out regarding efficient/effective fat loss, however. I guess I just need to focus on that later, once I’ve made a significant change in growth. How sick I am of being puny!

375

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Bmack, I’ve been salting everything. I bought some Redmond RealSalt as advertised on the Stuff We Like article last week.

I’ve noticed myself looking softer lately. I don’t really understand why. It makes me really mad, as if I suffered for a few months for nothing, or at least something not worth the degree of suffering.

[/quote]

Your saying it’s just since you started adding a lot more salt?

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:

I’ve logged everything since beginning the AD and am in total control of my calories. Out of curiosity, I wanted to see what my caloric intake TRULY looked like last summer, so I revisited my thought process back then regarding food and mapped out a sample day. Even though I consumed a very large volume of food, the energy behind it just was not as high as I thought. This fact alone makes me want to keep the AD onboard as I use a little GVT and Waterbury-style training to pack some meat on. It looks like I still have some things to figure out regarding efficient/effective fat loss, however. I guess I just need to focus on that later, once I’ve made a significant change in growth. How sick I am of being puny![/quote]

How much were you eating? I don’t know if it would be the best idea to do GVT with the low carbs on the AD

376

Today’s load went fairly well.

I kept it entirely clean and even managed to stay below 30g fat - I so badly wanted a PB and banana baguette but I resisted!

I had an apple and banana, oats, WW pasta, a 350g WW baguette, raisins, dried mixed fruit, more oats, red grapes. Roughly 2/3 starches.

At around the 550g carbs mark - halfway through a bowl of oats and raisins - and something in my body told me I’d had enough. It was like something clicked and I knew I didn’t need anymore.
Suffice to say I finished the bowl of oats but that was nearly 5 hours ago and I’ve had no appetite since.

I had a crazy half hour where I was just laughing to myself like a madman and then I suddenly felt very subdued and lethargic with a vague headache.
Despite this I went outside and dragged/carried some heavy shit (rocks, mainly) up a hill which made me feel worse… and then better hehe.
Boy did my forearms get pumped.

I’ve had maybe 70-90g protein today but no animal sources so I was going to finish the day with some tuna but I just had no appetite after I filled my carb quota and it’s too late now.

I hit around 3000 calories today (back down to 2200-2300 tomorrow) with the vast majority coming from the carbs of course so I’m very pleased with that and I can’t wait for my chest/back workout in the morning.
I just hope my friend gets his ass out of bed early enough to spot me for some PR attempts! (I like to get up around 5-6am and workout roughly 1 hour after that).

It’s certainly a good idea to minimise water intake on loads to avoid bloating - I’ve had minimal bloating today and very little ‘smoothing’, not that my abs, for example, are particularly well defined right now but I can certainly notice the difference.
I did feel a little ‘flat’ in the arms and shoulders for some of the day though.

All in all, a successful day, I’m really starting to enjoy fine-tuning this diet and getting my ass in gear, staying disciplined and reaping the benefits.
I’m leaner than I’ve ever been while still gaining so I guess I must be doing something right.

I’m going to get some before/after shots up in the next week or two - I’ve gone from a fat and bloated 220lbs down to a relatively lean and hard 160lbs or so over the past few years. The work never ends though! KAIZEEEEN!

I’m very curious to hear other thoughts on the fat/protein issue on carb-loads and I’m also at a bit of a loss with the sodium. I might try monitoring my sodium intake this week and see what numbers I get without supplementing with additional salt.

377

el sonido are you trying to gain or lose weight right now? Not sure cause you said your leaner but getting bigger so what is your main goal right now?

378

No, I’ve been adding salt for a couple weeks now.

I estimated it to be 2500cal with a max of around 3000. I was performing Joel Marion’s Stripped Down Hypertrophy, which is one hell of a program.

379

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
No, I’ve been adding salt for a couple weeks now.

I estimated it to be 2500cal with a max of around 3000. I was performing Joel Marion’s Stripped Down Hypertrophy, which is one hell of a program.[/quote]

Oh thats not really that low, unless you were trying to put on a significant amount of muscle (I don’t remember if you said you were bulking or cutting)…did you like that program?

So you don’t know whats been causing you to have a softer look recently?

380

I was trying to become hyooge. I thought the program was amazing, provided you can get the rest. I did it over the summer, and every day only had two priorities: train and go to work at night as a waiter. I would wake up, eat, train (around noon-2pm), eat, prepare lots of food, and finally go to work. I would sleep sufficiently and do it all over again.

And no, I do not. I feel like when I’m in a harsh caloric deficit, I begin to get tighter through fat loss and associated fluid balances. Whenever I go back to normal calories, I feel like I get fatter. Physical fluctuation is so dynamic; it drives me nuts.