Muslim Seeks Conscientious Objection

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/02/muslim-soldier-refuses-deploy-afghanistan/

“Islam is a peaceful religion, it’s not a religion of warfare,” Abdo said. “And it’s not a religion of terror. As a Muslim, we stand against injustice, we stand against discrimination, and I feel it’s my duty as an individual to do this.”

LOL

Yeah, how have things changed since you joined there bud? I think its far more cowardly an act to join and then refuse to be a soldier than to not join to begin with.

If he does get out of it, shouldn’t he have to pay back all the money spent on his training and even his salary, since he’s refusing to do his job?

I’m sure there is more to the story than you see on the Fox News site however joining the Army then claiming that you are against warfare does seem decidedly dumb.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I’m sure there is more to the story than you see on the Fox News site however joining the Army then claiming that you are against warfare does seem decidedly dumb.[/quote]

I don’t understand how you can claim conscientious objector unless they are trying to draft you. How can you object to a position you volunteered for?

“Islam is a peaceful religion, it’s not a religion of warfare,” Abdo said. “And it’s not a religion of terror. As a Muslim, we stand against injustice, we stand against discrimination, and I feel it’s my duty as an individual to do this.”

At least he knows the truth.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I’m sure there is more to the story than you see on the Fox News site however joining the Army then claiming that you are against warfare does seem decidedly dumb.[/quote]

I don’t understand how you can claim conscientious objector unless they are trying to draft you. How can you object to a position you volunteered for?[/quote]

I know, it is insane.

Typical coward from the left. Just a damn shame our Military allows this shit, too much PC going on. Strip him of all benefits give the Coward a Dishonorable Discharge. Make sure he is put on a black list. Then make repay for all his benefits.
Like DD said it is an all volunteer Military. Get that coward out of his BDUS.

If he joined the military and later into his basic realized he was against it is one thing, but to go through it and ait, then chicken out when you are about to be sent(if he was against it he would have gotten out in basic)

Some of you are being simplistic about it. Just because you joined doesn’t mean you suddenly are a mindless robot with no morals or conscience. Maybe if Germany had conscientious objectors there never would have been a Holocaust. If a soldier objected to the Iraq invasion because he believed that the whole WMD claim was, like the UN inspectors said, a load of crap, would he have been seen as a coward then? Probably. How about 8 years later, after we know that WMDs was bs and that the war was a waste of lives and resources; would he be seen as being justified? Yes. However, I don’t think the law allows someone to object to a specific war just war in general. So basically, once you join you are saying you don’t have a problem with war and killing and unless you can prove that in the meantime you had a change of beliefs you are stuck.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Some of you are being simplistic about it. Just because you joined doesn’t mean you suddenly are a mindless robot with no morals or conscience. Maybe if Germany had conscientious objectors there never would have been a Holocaust. If a soldier objected to the Iraq invasion because he believed that the whole WMD claim was, like the UN inspectors said, a load of crap, would he have been seen as a coward then? Probably. How about 8 years later, after we know that WMDs was bs and that the war was a waste of lives and resources; would he be seen as being justified? Yes. However, I don’t think the law allows someone to object to a specific war just war in general. So basically, once you join you are saying you don’t have a problem with war and killing and unless you can prove that in the meantime you had a change of beliefs you are stuck.
[/quote]

That could be viable if he joined before all of this ensued, but he joined in the middle of it

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/02/islamic-group-asks-army-deny-muslim-soldiers-request-conscientious-objector/

lol.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Some of you are being simplistic about it. Just because you joined doesn’t mean you suddenly are a mindless robot with no morals or conscience. Maybe if Germany had conscientious objectors there never would have been a Holocaust. If a soldier objected to the Iraq invasion because he believed that the whole WMD claim was, like the UN inspectors said, a load of crap, would he have been seen as a coward then? Probably. How about 8 years later, after we know that WMDs was bs and that the war was a waste of lives and resources; would he be seen as being justified? Yes. However, I don’t think the law allows someone to object to a specific war just war in general. So basically, once you join you are saying you don’t have a problem with war and killing and unless you can prove that in the meantime you had a change of beliefs you are stuck.
[/quote]

That could be viable if he joined before all of this ensued, but he joined in the middle of it

[/quote]

Legally, not even then. You have to object to war in general, not a specific war.

this is relevant.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/02/muslim-soldier-refuses-deploy-afghanistan/

“Islam is a peaceful religion, it’s not a religion of warfare,” Abdo said. “And it’s not a religion of terror. As a Muslim, we stand against injustice, we stand against discrimination, and I feel it’s my duty as an individual to do this.”

LOL

Yeah, how have things changed since you joined there bud? I think its far more cowardly an act to join and then refuse to be a soldier than to not join to begin with.

If he does get out of it, shouldn’t he have to pay back all the money spent on his training and even his salary, since he’s refusing to do his job?[/quote]

like prof x stated before. you are really an annoying member of this board.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Some of you are being simplistic about it. Just because you joined doesn’t mean you suddenly are a mindless robot with no morals or conscience. Maybe if Germany had conscientious objectors there never would have been a Holocaust. If a soldier objected to the Iraq invasion because he believed that the whole WMD claim was, like the UN inspectors said, a load of crap, would he have been seen as a coward then? Probably. How about 8 years later, after we know that WMDs was bs and that the war was a waste of lives and resources; would he be seen as being justified? Yes. However, I don’t think the law allows someone to object to a specific war just war in general. So basically, once you join you are saying you don’t have a problem with war and killing and unless you can prove that in the meantime you had a change of beliefs you are stuck.
[/quote]

Have you ever served?

[quote]Elite0423 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/02/muslim-soldier-refuses-deploy-afghanistan/

“Islam is a peaceful religion, it’s not a religion of warfare,” Abdo said. “And it’s not a religion of terror. As a Muslim, we stand against injustice, we stand against discrimination, and I feel it’s my duty as an individual to do this.”

LOL

Yeah, how have things changed since you joined there bud? I think its far more cowardly an act to join and then refuse to be a soldier than to not join to begin with.

If he does get out of it, shouldn’t he have to pay back all the money spent on his training and even his salary, since he’s refusing to do his job?[/quote]

like prof x stated before. you are really an annoying member of this board. [/quote]

solid post there. well thought out and logical. how bout you get his nuts out of your mouth and say somethng for yourself.

[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
“Islam is a peaceful religion, it’s not a religion of warfare,” Abdo said. “And it’s not a religion of terror. As a Muslim, we stand against injustice, we stand against discrimination, and I feel it’s my duty as an individual to do this.”

At least he knows the truth.[/quote]

I’m sure all those in the Twin Towers would agree.

[quote]JPCleary wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Some of you are being simplistic about it. Just because you joined doesn’t mean you suddenly are a mindless robot with no morals or conscience. Maybe if Germany had conscientious objectors there never would have been a Holocaust. If a soldier objected to the Iraq invasion because he believed that the whole WMD claim was, like the UN inspectors said, a load of crap, would he have been seen as a coward then? Probably. How about 8 years later, after we know that WMDs was bs and that the war was a waste of lives and resources; would he be seen as being justified? Yes. However, I don’t think the law allows someone to object to a specific war just war in general. So basically, once you join you are saying you don’t have a problem with war and killing and unless you can prove that in the meantime you had a change of beliefs you are stuck.
[/quote]

Have you ever served?[/quote]

Currently serving. I think it’s an interesting issue because we have all heard people who say that they would fight for their country if the cause was just. So they are saying that war in general doesn’t bother them but if they have to fight they want it to be for a good and justifiable reason. Then, you have servicemen and women who come from the same world as those who make those statements and probably feel the same way but give up the choice to follow their sense of reason while at the same time still having that sense of reason. When you put on the uniform you don’t lose your ability to reason and be rational but you do give up the right to act upon it to some degree.

In my case, I always thought invading Iraq was wrong for many reasons. One of them is that nation building is not the reason for war, it’s not what the military is trained for, and, most importantly, it’s the Middle East; a culture that we don’t understand or respect. Maybe I shouldn’t have read Clausewitz.

I have not been deployed anywhere…yet…but I would have to reconcile my personal opinions on the war based on reason with my sense of duty. You can say, “our is not to wonder why…” but how is that possible, especially in this day and age when information is so readily available? It’s like the military wants you to divorce yourself from your sense of reason and your conscience but, at the same time, they don’t want mindless, amoral drones who don’t think before acting (hence, abu ghraib). That would go against the whole “hearts and minds” strategy. Of course, before that you had “shock and awe” so the incongruities have just become part of the system. And at the end of the day soldiers do need to be able to use their sense of reason and make judgment calls because, as history as shown, “I was just following orders” isn’t a get out of jail free card.

But this is why the government and citizens need to base decisions on going to war on solid evidence and justifiable reasons. It’s not a political tool. When a soldier puts on the uniform he may give up his right to exercise free will to some degree but he hopes that those who are calling the shots are rational and reasonable. Citizens need to make sure their politicians don’t betray that trust.

[quote]dumbbellhead wrote:

[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
“Islam is a peaceful religion, it’s not a religion of warfare,” Abdo said. “And it’s not a religion of terror. As a Muslim, we stand against injustice, we stand against discrimination, and I feel it’s my duty as an individual to do this.”

At least he knows the truth.[/quote]

I’m sure all those in the Twin Towers would agree.[/quote]

including the muslims there?

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]JPCleary wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Some of you are being simplistic about it. Just because you joined doesn’t mean you suddenly are a mindless robot with no morals or conscience. Maybe if Germany had conscientious objectors there never would have been a Holocaust. If a soldier objected to the Iraq invasion because he believed that the whole WMD claim was, like the UN inspectors said, a load of crap, would he have been seen as a coward then? Probably. How about 8 years later, after we know that WMDs was bs and that the war was a waste of lives and resources; would he be seen as being justified? Yes. However, I don’t think the law allows someone to object to a specific war just war in general. So basically, once you join you are saying you don’t have a problem with war and killing and unless you can prove that in the meantime you had a change of beliefs you are stuck.
[/quote]

Have you ever served?[/quote]

Currently serving. I think it’s an interesting issue because we have all heard people who say that they would fight for their country if the cause was just. So they are saying that war in general doesn’t bother them but if they have to fight they want it to be for a good and justifiable reason. Then, you have servicemen and women who come from the same world as those who make those statements and probably feel the same way but give up the choice to follow their sense of reason while at the same time still having that sense of reason. When you put on the uniform you don’t lose your ability to reason and be rational but you do give up the right to act upon it to some degree.

In my case, I always thought invading Iraq was wrong for many reasons. One of them is that nation building is not the reason for war, it’s not what the military is trained for, and, most importantly, it’s the Middle East; a culture that we don’t understand or respect. Maybe I shouldn’t have read Clausewitz.

I have not been deployed anywhere…yet…but I would have to reconcile my personal opinions on the war based on reason with my sense of duty. You can say, “our is not to wonder why…” but how is that possible, especially in this day and age when information is so readily available? It’s like the military wants you to divorce yourself from your sense of reason and your conscience but, at the same time, they don’t want mindless, amoral drones who don’t think before acting (hence, abu ghraib). That would go against the whole “hearts and minds” strategy. Of course, before that you had “shock and awe” so the incongruities have just become part of the system. And at the end of the day soldiers do need to be able to use their sense of reason and make judgment calls because, as history as shown, “I was just following orders” isn’t a get out of jail free card.

But this is why the government and citizens need to base decisions on going to war on solid evidence and justifiable reasons. It’s not a political tool. When a soldier puts on the uniform he may give up his right to exercise free will to some degree but he hopes that those who are calling the shots are rational and reasonable. Citizens need to make sure their politicians don’t betray that trust. [/quote]

Good post.

It’s a hard thing sometimes, finding the balance between taking initiative, following orders, thinking for yourself, blinding obeying, etc. And there’s always gonna be someone to Monday morning quarterback and tell you what you did was wrong.

[quote]dumbbellhead wrote:

[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
“Islam is a peaceful religion, it’s not a religion of warfare,” Abdo said. “And it’s not a religion of terror. As a Muslim, we stand against injustice, we stand against discrimination, and I feel it’s my duty as an individual to do this.”

At least he knows the truth.[/quote]

I’m sure all those in the Twin Towers would agree.[/quote]

9/11 was an inside job, there is more evidence to prove that radical muslims didn’t do it than did