This guy is around 65. Just sayin’. I’ve seen his recent bloods and they check out fine. He’s on no medication (except HRT!)… sure, the exception doesn’t make the rule, but Hormone Replacement Therapy is going to keep men younger, longer.
T-Nation sucks at images btw
I seem to remember starting a thread about this issue. It amazes me how little the anti-bodybuilding crowd cares for this argument.
I get the thing about the weight putting strain on the heart; but is not the heart supposed to grow somewhat?
Then, I’ve heard of gear users investing in cardio to improve the ‘size and strength’ of their heart to avoid issues. How much does cardio help, if at all? I know a lot of people go to lengths to avoid cardio completely and this might be why they get gassed out so easily and have high blood pressure. Cardio (and I mean serious cardio) can obviously make gains in the gym slightly harder to come by but it cannot kill them. Is it possible for a man under six feet tall and over 250 pounds to have optimal blood pressure readings? If it is, cardio will be his friend. If his blood pressure is healthy, what are the other threats that BB places on the heart?
^ That dude is way too fuckin tan
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]chillain wrote:
This stood out to me, if only because I feel like TC has mentioned it before.
But I’m not sure I see it. Anyone who’s discovered this site and embarked on the journey and subsequently added too much fat along the way was some combination of nutritionally clueless, weak-minded in the gym, or simply not all that gifted genetically.
And that’s all fine, o ye of average genetics, as long as “you take what you got and run with it.” Take advantage of the wealth of training/nutrition info here and realize why the “big guys” preach what they do, and why their advice remains sound in general (even when it’s not directly applicable to you)
[/quote]
If someone can be ‘bullied’ into becomimg a fatass by posters on an internet forum, it’s hard to imagine they were ever destined for greatness in the first place.[/quote]
I agree, 100%.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
Dr Ken Leistner published an article years ago in MILO and said that it is hard to argue that it is healthy being over 250L’s, irrespective of body-fat levels because of the extra stress placed on the heart.
I don’t see that a temporary increase over this weight (250L’s) could be that detrimental-say several years or so up to the early 40’s or so-but there seems to be a trend where lifters (the one’s who don’t want heart attacks) start to lose weight and concentrate on health and cardio-vascular exercise, Steve Justa for example did this and lost 100Lb’s or so going from 350 down to 250 or so (last time I checked)
Anyone who’s life is 100% healthy must be pretty dull IMO, I LOVE to train, I do take ‘da roidz’ but I’ve put a lot of work in as well and I never ‘abuse’ what I take. Training and feeling big and strong is great, but life is a very temporary state, and being jacked is even more temporary, just like everything there is a time and a place. Gaining weight and ‘bulking’ isn’t prudent in your late 40’s and after. I know another guy who dropped from about 280LB’s don to about 200LB’s in his early 50’s for exactly the same reason, he said he want’s to see his grandchildren grow up, and also pointed out that there is no need for him to bench press 540LB’s aged 55, and he’s not sure if there ever was anyway!
I think we all need to pursue what we enjoy doing and what makes us happy, but not at the expense of our health.
[/quote]
I did almost the exact same thing. I’m 51. I went from 250 lbs (at 48) to 205 lbs (today). At my peak weight I wasn’t fat but I would get winded fast if I ran. So why the change? My blood work was getting worse each year. I needed to do something. My intent was to lose a pound a week. I did that for the first six months. It then took another year and half for the rest. Truth is I do miss being large (yeah, I know, 250 ain’t large here). On the other hand I’m getting a lot more attention from the ladies and that’s what it’s all about. 
To each his/her own. I hope some mass monster breaks 400lbs stage ready(if thats his goal). Other people’s actions and choices don’t effect me and aren’t my concern. I’m absolutely not going to pass judgement on someone’s lifestyle choices.
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
so I should eat more hamburgers?[/quote]
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I wrote. Oh, and “there are black players in Harlem better than MJ”. Yeah, I said that too.
[/quote]
On a serious note, have you ever actually told a newb to go eat a cheeseburger, or was this, too, something born out of context and just perpetually attached to your name on this site? I’ve only been around here for a year, but I’ve never personally witnessed it. I’m just curious how that whole thing started. [/quote]
Stay on topic please. What is wrong with you commenting about something not 100% to do with the thread title?? Jeez, the audacity of some people these days…
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]jskrabac wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]eeu743 wrote:
so I should eat more hamburgers?[/quote]
Yeah, that’s pretty much what I wrote. Oh, and “there are black players in Harlem better than MJ”. Yeah, I said that too.
[/quote]
On a serious note, have you ever actually told a newb to go eat a cheeseburger, or was this, too, something born out of context and just perpetually attached to your name on this site? I’ve only been around here for a year, but I’ve never personally witnessed it. I’m just curious how that whole thing started. [/quote]
Stay on topic please. What is wrong with you commenting about something not 100% to do with the thread title?? Jeez, the audacity of some people these days… [/quote]
Seriously. Take a Ritalin or something already.
I believe the majority of people making the most progress have come to accept that they may not look jaw dropping with their shirt off for a period of time; this period of time should be determined by themselves…not by tnation so that they can play on people’s insecurities to sell more “super supplements”. Also, I do believe CT is an incredible coach with incredible training methodologies, but the more he is pimped out as a marketing tool by the site, the less credibility he’s going to be given over time when he sounds off about the next supplement being promoted.
In regards to the lack of very well-built dudes over 65, wouldn’t their generation have a lot to do with it as well? The youngest of these guys would have been born in 1946- while this puts them right in the prosperity of the post-war era during their development, doesn’t it also mean they were subjected to all the brand-new synthetics and associated increase in environmental toxins that came around in that era? Wouldn’t that have a dramatic effect on their long-term digestive capacity etc. and the degradation of their faculties later in life as the body was more stressed by its environment during its lifetime? Add to this the enormous increase in proper information on nutrition and exercise that has become available with the advent of the internet, and it seems logical that accordingly there are a lot more big guys walking around today period than there ever were before.
I’m not arguing that being 250#s+ is or isn’t healthy/practical in the long-term, but rather proposing why our current crop of old people are far less likely to carry a large, muscular physique into later life than those who will grow old in upcoming decades.
[quote]TheCanadian wrote:
In regards to the lack of very well-built dudes over 65, wouldn’t their generation have a lot to do with it as well? The youngest of these guys would have been born in 1946- while this puts them right in the prosperity of the post-war era during their development, doesn’t it also mean they were subjected to all the brand-new synthetics and associated increase in environmental toxins that came around in that era? Wouldn’t that have a dramatic effect on their long-term digestive capacity etc. and the degradation of their faculties later in life as the body was more stressed by its environment during its lifetime? Add to this the enormous increase in proper information on nutrition and exercise that has become available with the advent of the internet, and it seems logical that accordingly there are a lot more big guys walking around today period than there ever were before. I’m not arguing that being 250#s+ is or isn’t healthy/practical in the long-term, but rather proposing why our current crop of old people are far less likely to carry a large, muscular physique into later life than those who will grow old in upcoming decades. [/quote]
Very interesting point. I’m glad to see someone thinking, instead of simply waring against one another.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]TheCanadian wrote:
In regards to the lack of very well-built dudes over 65, wouldn’t their generation have a lot to do with it as well? The youngest of these guys would have been born in 1946- while this puts them right in the prosperity of the post-war era during their development, doesn’t it also mean they were subjected to all the brand-new synthetics and associated increase in environmental toxins that came around in that era? Wouldn’t that have a dramatic effect on their long-term digestive capacity etc. and the degradation of their faculties later in life as the body was more stressed by its environment during its lifetime? Add to this the enormous increase in proper information on nutrition and exercise that has become available with the advent of the internet, and it seems logical that accordingly there are a lot more big guys walking around today period than there ever were before. I’m not arguing that being 250#s+ is or isn’t healthy/practical in the long-term, but rather proposing why our current crop of old people are far less likely to carry a large, muscular physique into later life than those who will grow old in upcoming decades. [/quote]
Very interesting point. I’m glad to see someone thinking, instead of simply waring against one another.[/quote]
When did fastfood become a staple in the American diet?
[quote]DJHT wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]TheCanadian wrote:
In regards to the lack of very well-built dudes over 65, wouldn’t their generation have a lot to do with it as well? The youngest of these guys would have been born in 1946- while this puts them right in the prosperity of the post-war era during their development, doesn’t it also mean they were subjected to all the brand-new synthetics and associated increase in environmental toxins that came around in that era? Wouldn’t that have a dramatic effect on their long-term digestive capacity etc. and the degradation of their faculties later in life as the body was more stressed by its environment during its lifetime? Add to this the enormous increase in proper information on nutrition and exercise that has become available with the advent of the internet, and it seems logical that accordingly there are a lot more big guys walking around today period than there ever were before. I’m not arguing that being 250#s+ is or isn’t healthy/practical in the long-term, but rather proposing why our current crop of old people are far less likely to carry a large, muscular physique into later life than those who will grow old in upcoming decades. [/quote]
Very interesting point. I’m glad to see someone thinking, instead of simply waring against one another.[/quote]
When did fastfood become a staple in the American diet?[/quote]
I think things went downhill when corporations took over…
Think about how many lobbying groups we have (diary, egg, beef, corn, soy, etc), and by simply producing some “study” (which was skewed from the start), one group can have the FDA make a claim about product X being bad for you, and poof, now we are told to eat more of this and less of that.
I’m not sure how to articulate this scientifically, but the more your body processes foods, drugs, toxins, the more “exhaust” is created (I don’t just mean free radicals) and the more your systems are taxed; like putting mileage on a car. Your organs and systems get worn out. At least, I am sureof that now based on literature that extreme fasting can prolong life span. I see that as a comparison of natural deterioration over time (with less use of the body’s systems) versus time (age, really) +“heavy use.”
Even consider a probabilistic look at it: e.g. the more you eat/process disease and toxins, the greater your chances of running into ailment X, whether that’s a disease or a physiological issue that can be corrected.
There’s no way that eating the amount of food that we see Culter and Kai Green eating on a regular basis does NOT decrease lifespan in the long run. And I don’t care to turn this into a Palo or “Show me studies!” pissing match.
To those scoffing at BG’s topic, how about a show of hands who is north of 40 AND has children? His words are that of someone who has to consider his livelihood for the sake of family and not just his own. It’s a change in perspective on a way of life that was attractive for different reasons when he (and most of us) was younger; when you start to reflect on your own mortality, that perspective will change.
But I think we can all agree that there ARE healthy habits to be picked up from this “sport,” even secondary benefits and collateral effects on those around us (mostly positive).
Poliquin once mentioned that ‘coaches’ often end up recommending what has worked for them in the past and he continued saying that this could be a big mistake. I have come to agree. Some of the size monsters, who, because of their popularity and many posts have become ‘coaches’ on this forum seem to have fallen in this category and they don’t seem to realize that, even though they can handle it well, there are very few individuals who can handle closing in on 300lbs at less then 6 foot tall.
I started out at 116lbs at 6 feet tall and have gone as high as 290lbs while staying under 20% body fat. I ended up with a raw total of 1715lbs (so it was not all show and no go) and never really lost my power and speed from my soccer days.
HOWEVER, my health markers slowly but surely deteriorated, and this was with conditioning and playing recreational foot ball in the weekends. A ‘generally and persistent’ feeling of unease was constantly with me, and even though I did not have a fat waist at that size, I would lose breath while sitting and trying to tie my shoelaces.
I have always had the desire to be super hero huge, probably because I was thin, frail and sickly as a young man. At 16 being 6 feet tall, less then 120 lbs with reddish hair, freckles and pasty white skin life isn’t easy :). I wish though, that someone had been able to stop me from going too far. For my thin frame and health it would have been better if I had stayed under 235lbs (mind you, this was Arnold’s weight when competing, and he is my height). Battling testicular cancer for the last 2 years has forced me to re-think my goals.
Part of the problem, I think, is that our generation has gotten to the point of “size at all costs” and “results immediately”. Hear me out for a moment, that does not always mean using steroids to get there. Even the natural ones have gotten this way. When did cheeseburgers and pizza become part of the bodybuilding lifestyle? Granted, when you make them yourself at home with fresh ingredients it is a different story but it is, when you really think of it, kind of retarded. And mind you, that’s coming from a guy who has eaten a field of cows in his day
When did the focus on health get put into last place? And I am fully aware that men like X never mentioned to become obese. Not what or who I am referring to.
Would it not be more hard-core to learn to eat 6000 calories (if that is how much you need to eat to grow) a day from good foods only? yes that is very difficult, BUT it can be done. Is part of body-BUILDING not building your lungs, digestive system and heart muscle as well? I know the functional guys went nuts on us for a while but men like us should not get winded helping friends move furniture. We should be the one left standing asking if we could do more (just an example to prove a point not that we get winded picked up a couch or two…).
Another thing I see happening a lot is putting people down who have a different definition of body-BUILDING. Is aspiring to look like Zane of Dickerson or Samir Bannout or Shelby or Dr. Clay etc etc, not a worthwhile body building goal? And no this is not my goal. I prefer/wish to look like Vic Richards BUT I do respect those who don’t want the same and do my best to help them. Respect and helping people reach THEIR goals, however different from yours, seems to have been lost on these forums, in my opinion.
This is not our forum, we do not own T-Nation, we do not have the right to put other clients down for what they wish to achieve, however stupid we might think it is what they want. It is cool enough that T-Nation allows us to say most of what we want to say but we really shouldn’t. Like my daddy used to say:“If you don’t have anything helpful to bring to the table, go outside”.
[quote]chillain wrote:
This stood out to me, if only because I feel like TC has mentioned it before.
But I’m not sure I see it. Anyone who’s discovered this site and embarked on the journey and subsequently added too much fat along the way was some combination of nutritionally clueless, weak-minded in the gym, or simply not all that gifted genetically.
And that’s all fine, o ye of average genetics, as long as “you take what you got and run with it.” Take advantage of the wealth of training/nutrition info here and realize why the “big guys” preach what they do, and why their advice remains sound in general (even when it’s not directly applicable to you)
[/quote]
That quote is the main thing I massively disagree with from TC’s article. I’ve managed to put on significant size and strength and not get fat in large part thanks to the words of wisdom I have read from the big guys on these boards (X, Stu, h4m, etc.). Thanks big guys!
[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:
Poliquin once mentioned that ‘coaches’ often end up recommending what has worked for them in the past and he continued saying that this could be a big mistake. I have come to agree. Some of the size monsters, who, because of their popularity and many posts have become ‘coaches’ on this forum seem to have fallen in this category and they don’t seem to realize that, even though they can handle it well, there are very few individuals who can handle closing in on 300lbs at less then 6 foot tall.
I started out at 116lbs at 6 feet tall and have gone as high as 290lbs while staying under 20% body fat. I ended up with a raw total of 1715lbs (so it was not all show and no go) and never really lost my power and speed from my soccer days.
HOWEVER, my health markers slowly but surely deteriorated, and this was with conditioning and playing recreational foot ball in the weekends. A ‘generally and persistent’ feeling of unease was constantly with me, and even though I did not have a fat waist at that size, I would lose breath while sitting and trying to tie my shoelaces.
I have always had the desire to be super hero huge, probably because I was thin, frail and sickly as a young man. At 16 being 6 feet tall, less then 120 lbs with reddish hair, freckles and pasty white skin life isn’t easy :). I wish though, that someone had been able to stop me from going too far. For my thin frame and health it would have been better if I had stayed under 235lbs (mind you, this was Arnold’s weight when competing, and he is my height). Battling testicular cancer for the last 2 years has forced me to re-think my goals.
Part of the problem, I think, is that our generation has gotten to the point of “size at all costs” and “results immediately”. Hear me out for a moment, that does not always mean using steroids to get there. Even the natural ones have gotten this way. When did cheeseburgers and pizza become part of the bodybuilding lifestyle? Granted, when you make them yourself at home with fresh ingredients it is a different story but it is, when you really think of it, kind of retarded. And mind you, that’s coming from a guy who has eaten a field of cows in his day
When did the focus on health get put into last place? And I am fully aware that men like X never mentioned to become obese. Not what or who I am referring to.
Would it not be more hard-core to learn to eat 6000 calories (if that is how much you need to eat to grow) a day from good foods only? yes that is very difficult, BUT it can be done. Is part of body-BUILDING not building your lungs, digestive system and heart muscle as well? I know the functional guys went nuts on us for a while but men like us should not get winded helping friends move furniture. We should be the one left standing asking if we could do more (just an example to prove a point not that we get winded picked up a couch or two…).
Another thing I see happening a lot is putting people down who have a different definition of body-BUILDING. Is aspiring to look like Zane of Dickerson or Samir Bannout or Shelby or Dr. Clay etc etc, not a worthwhile body building goal? And no this is not my goal. I prefer/wish to look like Vic Richards BUT I do respect those who don’t want the same and do my best to help them. Respect and helping people reach THEIR goals, however different from yours, seems to have been lost on these forums, in my opinion.
This is not our forum, we do not own T-Nation, we do not have the right to put other clients down for what they wish to achieve, however stupid we might think it is what they want. It is cool enough that T-Nation allows us to say most of what we want to say but we really shouldn’t. Like my daddy used to say:“If you don’t have anything helpful to bring to the table, go outside”.
[/quote]
Great Post. Internet High Five.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
Dr Ken Leistner published an article years ago in MILO and said that it is hard to argue that it is healthy being over 250L’s, irrespective of body-fat levels because of the extra stress placed on the heart.
I don’t see that a temporary increase over this weight (250L’s) could be that detrimental-say several years or so up to the early 40’s or so-but there seems to be a trend where lifters (the one’s who don’t want heart attacks) start to lose weight and concentrate on health and cardio-vascular exercise, Steve Justa for example did this and lost 100Lb’s or so going from 350 down to 250 or so (last time I checked)
Anyone who’s life is 100% healthy must be pretty dull IMO, I LOVE to train, I do take ‘da roidz’ but I’ve put a lot of work in as well and I never ‘abuse’ what I take. Training and feeling big and strong is great, but life is a very temporary state, and being jacked is even more temporary, just like everything there is a time and a place. Gaining weight and ‘bulking’ isn’t prudent in your late 40’s and after. I know another guy who dropped from about 280LB’s don to about 200LB’s in his early 50’s for exactly the same reason, he said he want’s to see his grandchildren grow up, and also pointed out that there is no need for him to bench press 540LB’s aged 55, and he’s not sure if there ever was anyway!
I think we all need to pursue what we enjoy doing and what makes us happy, but not at the expense of our health.
[/quote]
i disagree. i don’t care what chronilogical age you are, it has little influence over wanting to be big and muscular. I disagree being jacked is temporary. as long as you train hard, just like you always have, you won’t lose what youve built. especially with todays supplements. you seem to be assuming ones age should matter if a person wants to be super strong and super big. age is a only a number, it exists only in your mind. thats my personal belief. we age, cause its like one big placebo effect. we age, cause in our minds we have been conditioned to think that aging is enevitable. well, i disagree. age can be controlled. a number only matters, if you give power to it in your mind.
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
Dr Ken Leistner published an article years ago in MILO and said that it is hard to argue that it is healthy being over 250L’s, irrespective of body-fat levels because of the extra stress placed on the heart.
I don’t see that a temporary increase over this weight (250L’s) could be that detrimental-say several years or so up to the early 40’s or so-but there seems to be a trend where lifters (the one’s who don’t want heart attacks) start to lose weight and concentrate on health and cardio-vascular exercise, Steve Justa for example did this and lost 100Lb’s or so going from 350 down to 250 or so (last time I checked)
Anyone who’s life is 100% healthy must be pretty dull IMO, I LOVE to train, I do take ‘da roidz’ but I’ve put a lot of work in as well and I never ‘abuse’ what I take. Training and feeling big and strong is great, but life is a very temporary state, and being jacked is even more temporary, just like everything there is a time and a place. Gaining weight and ‘bulking’ isn’t prudent in your late 40’s and after. I know another guy who dropped from about 280LB’s don to about 200LB’s in his early 50’s for exactly the same reason, he said he want’s to see his grandchildren grow up, and also pointed out that there is no need for him to bench press 540LB’s aged 55, and he’s not sure if there ever was anyway!
I think we all need to pursue what we enjoy doing and what makes us happy, but not at the expense of our health.
[/quote]
i disagree. i don’t care what chronilogical age you are, it has little influence over wanting to be big and muscular. I disagree being jacked is temporary. as long as you train hard, just like you always have, you won’t lose what youve built. especially with todays supplements. you seem to be assuming ones age should matter if a person wants to be super strong and super big. age is a only a number, it exists only in your mind. thats my personal belief. we age, cause its like one big placebo effect. we age, cause in our minds we have been conditioned to think that aging is enevitable. well, i disagree. age can be controlled. a number only matters, if you give power to it in your mind.[/quote]
This coming from the dipshit who habitually lies about his age to women to the point where he even lied about his age to his wife?!?!?!?!? While they were married?!?!?!?!?!?
You’re a fucking idiot. If age means nothing, then why hide it? If people judge you by it, why do you care about the judgments of someone who is transfixed by a “big placebo effect”? YOU are the one giving power to the number simply by hiding it from other people like it’s something significant.
