Married into a Korean family. The types of stuff you describe used to rub me raw in a major way, but it’s actually become quite endearing (after 10+ years). Also helps that I’m the favored “son” now after a rather rocky entry to the family.
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Haha I don’t know much about Korean culture other than we share the same lunar calendar. But you definitely get what I’ve been saying. There are standards men have to live up to or they’ll just lose respect of their spouses.
Yep, they don’t come across as tough guys, but if its happening in America, both these guys own handguns for self defense.
Slapping someone is not a good idea, if you don’t expect the scene to escalate.
I’m talking about the kind of men that a traditional Asian woman would respect and be subservient to. Which means how they think and behave in everyday life. Having a gun does not make one masculine. A chick can own a gun in the US if I’m not wrong.
And if my dad slaps someone that he’s not trying to discipline, he’s doing it SO the scene escalates lol.
Agreed, not necessarily masculine. I know what you mean. Many men have a presence of someone not to be messed with lightly, they usually don’t need to resort to violence unless the situation is really called for. It might be physical, size or posture or other non verbal cues,or a reputation. The 2 guys you mentioned don’t project that image.
Plenty of stories about big tough guys beating up some little dweeb, who then pulls out a weapon and shoots or stabs said tough guy. The stories aren’t told by the dweebs as a boast, they come from the tough guy who was lucky enough to have survived and learnt a lesson the hard way.
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I’m not encouraging violence. I’m just saying my dad’s super old school and that’s how he behaves. He is who he is. I don’t behave like that. That’s what real “toxic masculinity” is IMO.
I didn’t think you were. Whether its toxic behavior depends on how appropriately it is applied. In many situations it could be inappropriate.
I definitely thought more like you, but the more I see the world change(usually not for the better despite good intentions) I see that the older ways have/had their merits. Whether the people that behave that way are doing it from a position of understanding or indoctrination I don’t know. If its from indoctrination it can become toxic.
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My advisor is in a similar position. We spent a LOT of time talking about Asian culture.
Are you Asian?
My parents are quite progressive IMO, but they have made it VERY clear that they would STRONGLY prefer Asian or Jewish guys.
One of my classmates is dating a black guy… my parents won’t stop talking about it…
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Well, it depends on different societies.
For example, here’s the reason why I brought up “slapping”. Where I grew up, you only slap your kids or women to keep them in line. You DON’T slap MEN. If you slap someone, it either shows how much of a loser you think they are since you don’t expect them to retaliate or you’re egging them on into an actual fist fight when they’re doing too much talking and posturing.
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My dad’s experience says otherwise… 
But yes, in general, this is true
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Good point. Gotta go out, can resume later.
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Right - prob too much of a generalization on my part. But having to serve soju with two hands simply because the recipient was older definitely brought out the American in me saying “get your own GD soju, grandpa”.
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Nope. Fairly WASPish.
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ahh yeah… no wonder… glad it worked out!
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Boy, there was a lot in your post, huh, Pat? Back at it I go…
Surely you realize that most women also laugh at this stuff? I mean, I have never and would never use any of these products. Toenail polish, light makeup, and scented lotion are my beauty go-tos, and what I see most often around me, regardless of age. Do you live in an episode of Love and Hip Hop?
Oh, yes indeed, I certainly have!
As I’ve said, he had what appeared to be very positive qualities and achievements (bearing in mind I was 22 when I met him). We were married six months after we met, because I didn’t yet realize insecurity, not passion, motivated him and because I was a dumbass. He was not a player. Sex was never particularly good, but here again we have my naivety and belief that it would sort itself out. I question now whether he may be gay or sexually submissive (his desire to swing was of the cuckold variety). But who knows. You are right when you say I should have known, but then, that’s why I’m in this thread offering that early marriages in the general population (non-orthodox communities) are statistically (and anecdotally) more likely to end in divorce. My experience matches the data.
They didn’t make promises to me, but no, they were not on my team. I’m on Team Integrity. Neither he nor they were on the team with me. I found out about it when I found viagra in his travel bag, and subsequently a friend told me about a relationship he’d had years earlier (with a 19-year-old, while he was 36 and we were pregnant with our third child, and oh, also I had cancer). The marriage never recovered, though because of the kids it took time to completely crash.
But I’m interested that you think I have a team. Is it all women? Do you imagine I’m anti-men? As a matter of fact, I like men very much, as I do women. Most men and most women are fine by me, though I don’t want to be besties with all of them. If a woman wants to be promiscuous, I’m okay with it. As long as she doesn’t blame men for whatever shitty outcome. If a guy wants to be promiscuous, I’m okay with it as long as he doesn’t use terms like “thirsty ho” or “sloars” and complain about his outcomes. If a couple want to be traditional AF, I’m completely good with it. If they want to swing, be partners who live separately, have no kids, 13 kids…all good. As long as the parties involved agree, what is it to me? What is it to you?
I’ve done so relentlessly on these boards. In fact, there was an entire thread (two?) devoted primarily to the changes I was making in my romantic life, and at one point you dropped in, said it felt like someone dropped an estrogen bomb, and left again. Orion and angry chicken were in there explaining men and hypergamy, etc, and I was in there arguing the same arguments about slutty, conniving women and the slutty, conniving men that match them.
This is true.
I’ve said the opposite of this many, many times, as have the other people in this thread who don’t see eye to eye with you. Why do you keep somehow attributing this switch from patriarchy to matriarchy to anyone who disagrees with you that men are now oppressed? Merit based advancement is the desired outcome of everyone posting in here.
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Nono, I think there are probably lots of similarities. I just don’t know what they are cos I don’t know any Koreans lol. Our cultures would be quite different from, say, Indian culture, though.
My dad could beat up your dad.
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That’s a rare humility that’s kind of refreshing. And it’s not what I believe to be a ‘woman’s place’ it’s about preserving the family unit. And it’s not about forcing women to be in roles they don’t want to be in. If you don’t want to do something, that is on you and do whatever you want.
What I am talking about, applies mainly to women who do want to be married and want families, which is a huge contingent of women. And the damage done to young men, who have been made into punching bags by modern women and feminists, the butt of jokes,and in some cases completely devalued.
Young men are suffering, their suicide rates are going up, loneliness is at an all time high (helped in no small way by covid), testosterone levels of young men are dropping and so are sperm counts. The number one culprit, in my opinion is single parent households, which are also at an all time high.
You do you. This is mainly about family.
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What is the title of this thread?
I agree women should be equally represented in the workforce. There should be an equal number of men and women in education, sex work, garbage collecting, coal mining, prison population, homelessness, mechanics, sewage maintenance, construction, entry level data, management, and upper management.
The argument from feminists and the like is they want equal representation… only at the highest levels. Well, if you want to be a man, live like a man. You have to do the crappy jobs if you want to good ones, men innately know this.
If you have ‘equal’ representation at the top, there is something very unequal about it.
Or we can just count our blessing, quit bitching about our lot in life and move on.
No, hell no. lol…
You really ought to know better than to reference the Center for American Progress for any reason ever. A leftist propaganda website like CAP or SPLC are historically and often verifiable liars. Unless you believe that Sam Harris is a first class racist, that is. I find it interesting that they don’t list any numbers regarding the amount of female bread-winners they just say ‘more’. I will go look at the 2020 census data when I get a chance and provide the actual statistics.
Look, just because someone wrote something on the internet doesn’t make it fact, that’s why I always try to get data and facts from vetted, commonly respected sources.
And your anecdotal evidence does not represent the whole.
No, usually they want to be princesses and live in a magic kingdom, primarily pink, with mountains made of cotton candy and rivers of strawberry milk.
I never said different. Your conflating facts about the state of young men and women with some sort of belief that anybody who isn’t a hard-core feminsits wants to desperately relive the 50’s. I am not advocating for ‘barefoot and pregnant’ unless that’s what a woman wants. Nor am I advocating women staying at home.
I am advocating for men, particularly young men who are suffering, to bring awareness to issues that nobody is paying attention to nor clear wants to, nor even cares that there is a problem for our young men. The modernist, post-modernist types, especially the female versions of the modernist, post-modernist types are killing off the family unit and the casualties are our young men, whom believe it or not you need. We all need strong competent young men and we are getting fewer and fewer of them.
They are being destroyed by the persistent attitudes that have normalized men, particularly young men as ‘rapists’ or ‘soon to be rapists’ who must be emasculated at childhood. But worse, they are being destroyed by the persistence and ever growing population of single parent households. And like it or not, the reason for the crisis of the single-parent household are women’s attitudes toward sex, independence, and refusal to cooperate with a man. Yes, men play a role too, but these decisions are being made primarily by women and it is killing us.
And again we are back to you… Do you not see how self centric you are? That if it doesn’t apply to you, it doesn’t happen in the world?
Most men laugh at this stuff, yet SO MANY women do it. And men not only laugh, but they cry, because they hate it so much.
His desire to swing can only be accomplished with a willing participant. And for men, it’s much, much harder to get a willing participant unless they have something women want. So he had to be offering something. Again, based on the fact that you were a stay at home mom at the time, he must of had money. Hypergamy. Women go for that married or not and I would not be surprised if that didn’t factor into your 22 yr old mind. Nothing is proven out statistically more so than hypergamy.
The is the number one sign of a modernist female, accountability is like kryptonite.
It’s not, you’re conflating the desires of the individual with the sinking ship of the collective, brought on in large portion by feminist ideology promoting the single mother which resulted in the epidemic of single parent families, which are destroying young men in particular.
Most women want to be married, but many behave in a way that is detrimental to success in that and then blame men for not ‘accepting them as they are’.
Well I am happy to hear that. We agree.
Now I am out of time. I will try to fiercely engage later if I have time.
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The main point I made was the “at 30” part. Meaning, you’ve went to school. Gotten some entry level job and even made some head way. Then it’s party time and dating, but nothing serious. Then at 30, said women begins to feel her biological clock. Which means at 30, she begins to look for a husband, only to find there aren’t any takers from the pool of men she wants, the top 10%, because they are dating 25 year olds and marrying traditional women. And if she manages to find a sucker, courtship to eventual marriage takes a couple of years, not to mention all the unexpected crap that happens in between and before she knows it, she’s baning up on 33-34 which gives her a year to have a lower risk pregnancy so maybe she gets to have one child before high risk pregnancy starts.
The problem is wasting time, not education. And having to support herself? Let’s be serious here. She could be a vile, serial cheater and she will still get half of her ex-husbands shit. And there are organizations and charities and all kinds of resources for women to get help. You know how many men have? Zero.
Further, are you really suggesting that people go into marriage with the attitude that they need to have a back up plan in case that doesn’t work? If you are, then you probably shouldn’t get married. In that case, get a prenup with guaranteed money.
Further, women typically go to school for useless degrees. Let’s be serious about that. Women aren’t flooding STEM, they are flooding humanities. Men have largely quit going to college. Women outnumber men 65% to 35% in college. Why? Because you don’t need college for most jobs. That was a load of happy horseshit sold to us in the 80’s. Most jobs are trades or specialties and most college degrees are useless across the board. I have a psyc, degree too. Why? Because I was told I had to go to college. The degree is useless, but school was fun.
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