That’s fair. I do not know enough about American society to comment.
What I do know is that Chinese society still very much values what @pat, and you to some extent, has been suggesting. To be clear, I don’t disagree with a lot of it.
Personally speaking, I’ve experienced a 180 shift in the way my parents treat my interactions with males.
Throughout high school, they disparaged my classmates with boyfriends and took every opportunity to emphasize the cons.
Pretty much the second I graduated, they started making not so subtle hints of wanting me to get a boyfriend/husband (pointing out potential wedding venues on walks or saying things like “you can bring your boyfriend on vacation and we’ll get you two a room”).
I told them my opinion on having children and mum yelled at dad for “being a bad husband an ruining my trust in marriage”
You have been following me around this forum for over two years with insults, ad hominem attacks, and what I believe is libel. If this was in person I would have already sought legal action. What you alluded to today was downright SICK, and if I have it correct, referred to criminal perversion! What makes it all the more sick is you knowing I have a family. Thankfully it was removed!
This is some of the creepiest and most sinister behavior I’ve had done to me in my whole life!
In addition to false defaming statements you have commented on my race on more than one occasion, you poked your nose into a conversation about my religion I had with others, and several times mentioned Nazism to me while knowing I’m Jewish after I politely asked you to stop doing so, even while knowing my own grandmother emigrated because of it. I remember you continued to trash me in a thread the day after she died this past spring when I even said I had to take a break from the forums because of her death.
If you gave me the odd zinger here and there, I wouldn’t mind. However you’ve been crossing the line with regularity for over two years.
I will continue to report you to the moderators for this behavior of yours if it keeps up. I have been on this forum for a long, long time, met and went to the gym and bodybuilding shows with people from it, even made a close friend from it. I shared my one and only contest prep on it. So it actually benefited my life. Now I can no longer use it in peace all because of you.
No one who knows me would say I deserve this. No one!
At first, they didn’t want you to be fucking around in your teen years, because they didn’t want you to be labeled as a slut (and who is going to buy the cow when they can get the milk for free?).
Later on, you kept your honor (or so they hoped), it’t time to get you a husband.
Seems like a pretty standard way of thinking in some conservative societies.
Agreed. It’s what I’m talking about. This might not be the attitude in the US but it is the attitude in China and a lot of Asia (to a much more extreme degree IMO)
Well, it was more so I wouldn’t get distracted in my studies (note I agree)
They aren’t exactly anti sex, it’s more of a “not my problem” type attitude
Thank you, but I have to note that I had and have a lot of advantages. My parents were both avid readers and taught me to be the same. My father was truly a self-made man (not wealthy, but an executive) and while he was scary, and definitely abusive by today’s standards, could absolutely also be described as an inspiration. My mother was one of the most personable people I’ve ever met. They were not equipped for parenting, but they were not without strengths. As for me personally, I’m bright, have happened to be taller than average but not too tall, thin but not too thin, attractive enough without it being a thing, and am bright and easy for people to like. People want to employ, befriend, or marry me, depending. I was able to drop out of high school after having ceased engagement in 9th grade, GED without any preparation, and begin college at 16. I honestly think I’d thrive in pretty much any sort of culture. But not every woman has the advantages I do. I primarily argue for those women in here, not for people like me. Women who lack the looks, intelligence, or confidence to flourish. In a technological society, they should not be enslaved.
“As she is simply not attractive enough.” Wouldn’t a good job and no social stigma be a very handy help to her?
This is exactly correct, and I could also provide data, but there tend to be crickets when I do.
And 40 was old.
How on earth do you determine this? She decide to stay home with her children knowing that if things go sideways she’ll be okay. Why wouldn’t this woman be able to succeed at married life? How threatened is her man that he can’t handle that she isn’t dependent on him for her survival? Or do you think that education makes homemaking less appealing?
The number of women who are the primary breadwinners in their families is on the rise. According to 2018 research from the U.S. Census Bureau, in one in four heterosexual married couples, women make more than their male partners.
But a new study from the University of Bath suggests that this trend is impacting male partners’ mental health. The study examined 6,000 American heterosexual married couples over the course of 15 years to see how this shift has impacted people’s physical and mental health, life satisfaction and relationships.
They found that men felt the most anxious when they were the sole breadwinner in the family, and the least stressed when their women partners were contributing 40% to the household income. But as women made more money past that point, men become “increasingly uncomfortable” and stressed, according to the findings.
The reason? Traditional social gender norms suggest that men should be the breadwinners in relationships.
INTERESTING, no?
I can very easily identify the people who come through my office - both men and women - who are going to do well in the dating market, whether young and single or older and divorced. They have traits that make them more or less desirable. Period! It’s not a “society” thing because society is made up of individuals, and individuals have characteristics. I can also identify the people who are going to do poorly. Things that indicate success include grooming, posture, healthy lifestyle, intelligence and humor (which also correlate with all the other successes, including income, outcome of children, unlikelihood of domestic violence, life expectancy, etc). It’s nothing to do with nubile bar scene girls and men who’ve achieved middle management in middle-age.
From what I understand, very few women grow up thinking “I want to be a housewife “
Believe it or not, we are capable humans with intellectual needs.
Not every woman wants a career and an education (same for men too), some (a lot) do and that’s not a bad thing imo. A rising tide lifts all boats.
I didn’t read what he wrote and you don’t need to tell me, but I will take a guess. Apologies if I’m way off.
If he took a dig at you because you said females are more attractive (physically) between the ages of 16 to late 20s, well, they are. Why not say it?
Doesn’t mean you would ever bang a 16 year old.
I’m sure plenty of women in their 30s wouldn’t mind having the bodies they had when they were like 19 (neither would their husbands lol).
I can admit, say, my sister is an attractive woman. She is. I hope no one thinks I want to bang her.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. I leveled up, as do most of the high-positive-trait people I work with.
[Let me take a moment to clarify “that I work with.” My billable hours expectation (productivity) is 26 client sessions a week. I expected about the same in private practice. Currently I can absorb approximately 3 new clients a week, as old clients finish therapy, move away, get new jobs, don’t like me, etc. Based on a 47 week year I have just over 1200 sessions, approximately 150 of which are with people I’ve never met before. So quite a large sampling of people sharing their lives and successes and failures with me, sometimes over the course of years.]
Anyway, my expectations were much, much higher the second time around because all indications were that, contrary to TNation wisdom (which I believed) that I’d aged out of my sexual marketplace value, the men I was dating were even more avid to lock me in than they had been when I was young. Much of which is recorded here. Interestingly, my husband got the thumbs down when he appeared on the scene. Beta cuck.
I’m gonna tell you what your problem is. You need to accept that men are the ones who determine your value. The world would be a much better place… for the men unwilling to improve themselves.
If we wanna go old school, the caveat is that the men must be *MEN, not some kids that dedicate pages after pages on a forum whining about silly little things like the pay of women soccer players.
And we’re supposed to give all our income to our wives to manage lol.
I see the guys on those popular YouTube channels and all I can think is “why are these nerds whom we’d have considered “betas” in school and bullied the fuck out of them always the ones whining about masculinity”.
Tim Poole? Ben Shapiro? MEN? Come on lmao… My dad would slap the shit out of someone like Tim Poole.
*As defined by Asian society, not my opinion
好男不跟女斗 (hao nan bu gen nv dou)
Good men don’t fight with women. ( 西游记 (xi you ji) - Journey to the West )
That’s because the wife marries into the man’s family cos we pay a shitload of money or presents in the form of a dowry to “purchase” her. So we needed to strike some kind of balance since the wife’s family is now considered to be less significant - something like an extended family. The wife is expected to stay with the husband’s family if they don’t move out and get a place of their own.
娘家 (niang jia) - (Wife’s) mother’s home.
If a man were to stay home to raise the kids while his wife works like what Ben Shapiro said his dad did (which I understand was a purely pragmatic decision and I’m completely cool with it. One of my closest friends does this.), it’s looked down upon so much the man is almost equivalent to a pimp. (吃软饭 (chi ruan fan) - eats soft rice)
In some dialect groups, there are still traditions that take place depending on how old school the families are. When my Cantonese friend got married just 8 years ago, his bride had to walk under a low pole while entering his house, which is to symbolize her subservience to the husband’s family.
We had to deliver a fucking bigass roasted pig that took 4 of us to carry to her family when “picking her up” lol.
And then there’s the mandatory “tea ceremony” where both spouses have to kneel down and serve tea to their elders. My brother and his spouse did this to me and my wife and I was lmao-ing inside since we behave like “equals” in our daily lives.
My point is different cultures are pretty complex and there are many nuances that people don’t know and some “rules” which I doubt they’ll even accept when they try to “copy” another culture lol.
On the flipside, Westerners can imagine how much more confused Asian society is getting due to gradual shifts to new social paradigms that aren’t limited to the West.
You’re hitting on a thought that I’ve had but haven’t articulated. The argument of most men who rail against the degradation of masculinity is that the superiority afforded them by natural law is being taken from them by force. How can you simultaneously be the alpha but also be subjugated to the whims of society? Seems mutually exclusive. If you truly believe you’re a lion then don’t lose sleep over the opinions of lambs. Something along those lines anyway.
Corollary: if you think society’s denying you everything you’re owed, then maybe you’re not the alpha you think you are.
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