More Women in Power?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
347

I seem to be an exception to this. You haven’t insulted me, exactly, but @pat certainly did (why did you delete it, @pat?). To assume I am making things up about what you write…? But okay. I can’t keep racing through my mornings for this, but one more stab at it:

Actually, I have know this for some time, and it’s come up many times in these discussions. I wonder, given your history, why you don’t take into account that you’ve created a very nice life despite having grown up in the exact circumstances you feel make nice lives unlikely? Your experience, like mine, contradicts your belief system. Now, you’re just one person, of course, but statistics are made up of individuals. As two parts of a whole, you and I are both important data points. We have come to cherish very different lifestyles, but what we have in common is that at some point we looked around at our circumstances, felt dissatisfied, and made a decision to make a change. You have a broad acquaintance base, as I do, but a difference is that I am in the seat across people who do as I did and as you have done, and make their lives better, whatever that means. I prevent divorces, I work with women not to accept being booty calls and instead find a meaningful relationship, I work with previously-indifferent men whose wives are on the verge of quitting the marriage and who want to change to prevent divorce, and I work with women who’ve been dumped from decades long marriages. This is at the core of my belief that people make choices.

An exception, which I’ve brought up many times, is ugly or poorly shaped (could mean fat or could mean just awkward builds) or somehow undesirable (weird voice, mental illness, funky teeth, male pattern baldness or facial hair) women. I work with them, too, as well as men who can’t find women. I can MUCH more easily help the men than the women because girls and women are less visually-oriented than males. I can help with confidence and game, and can correct behavioral blocks to dating. I can’t fix an awkward but sweet woman beyond counseling patience and improving self-esteem by working on appreciating her own positive qualities.

I cannot for the life of me understand why we keep coming back to

Not all girls are hot girls. And these girls need to be able to provide a life for themselves. Not all men are good men. And women, hot or not, should not have to fear leaving them because they are not able to be self-sufficient. I’m not sure how much you guys know about “welfare” but I live in a generous state, and it’s not a livable amount of money. It’s simply survivable. No car, no decent shoes, no steak, no hair conditioner. Generally that’s what they think is “normal,” so don’t seem to mind, but it makes me feel desperate just thinking about it.

Not all unmarried women choose this. The men want hot women, even the ugly or awkwardly shaped, bad teethed men. These awkward women are unpartnered not by choice. (Disclaimer: Not all awkward women, of course. Not all awkward men are shallow.)

Also, @BrickHead you keep saying “patriarchy or matriarchy” as if there will be one or the other. I don’t see either working. What we seem to be working toward is a shared leadership. What’s wrong with that? Why do you fear that the women want to take over? Most women, as most men, have no desire for that kind of position. They want to work and go home and play with the kids or dog. Have dinner. Watch TV.

Lastly:

Thank you, but we did this together. He was not a good husband, and he’s a depressed angry guy who’s floundered since the breakup (I had no idea the extent to which I stabilized him when we were together), but the kids were coming out of high school and going into college at the time and we were both employed. I had the college money (or at least what we agreed to contribute) through money I’d locked away in a trust when my father died. My ex did (unsuccessfully) fight to split that money, and he’s had…let’s see…ten jobs since we separated? So my rush to improve my earning potential was necessary, but he wasn’t a wife-beating deadbeat. He’s a college-educated multi-lingual guy who once spoke internationally about his field. He just refused to treat his depression and externalized his unhappiness onto other people (me, bosses) and felt that happiness also would come from external sources (hookers, drugs at one time, convincing me to swing, opening new credit cards and then charging them up without my knowledge, etc). He’s destroyed what was once a very good career with his weirdness and hasn’t been with a woman for more than six months since the divorce (maybe they didn’t want to swing, either). We were together at a family thing last weekend and I had the funny thought that I’m still his best friend, while he’s the person most likely to star in my nightmares.

Now I’m going to have to scramble to get to work on time!

1 Like
348

Ah, my bad. Point still stands for all the single moms out there making it happen though.

349

I just read your post. I can’t respond now but I just want to say, that no, nothing I write is meant to insult anyone. We’re all strangers here but as I write about loaded topics I try to remain aware this there are human beings with feelings behind these screens. Insulting people is inappropriate and in nearly all cases and I know if I insult someone I’m going to immediately feel bad afterwards. I also am not so keen on sharing personal stories, although I sometimes have, because I believe there are two sadists on this forum.

2 Likes
350

A partner’s looks are incredibly important. As you said yourself, these awkward women are not doing well in their lives–this is in large part due to their physical appearance, which is in large part determined by their genes, so they’re stuck with it. So men who want to date conventionally attractive women are not shallow, because your physical appearance is a large factor in determining how well you will do in life. Good looking people have more job opportunities, friends, make more money (extra 230k over their lifetime, which is an entire house), and are happier, generally speaking.

The same standard applies to women who want good-looking men as well–I don’t think they are shallow for wanting this. I don’t think they are shallow for desiring tall men, because tall men generally have higher status and make more money.

Also, I would argue women are more picky about looks than men are – there are lots of stats to suggest this is true. I believe OkCupid data showed 85% of men are rated below average. Also, there was a one-to-one correlation between looks and personality ratings–hot guys we’re rated as having the best personalities.

2 Likes
351

Yep, this. The difference between flirting and harassment is often how the guy looks. Personality is a lot easier if you look good, so is confidence. Confidence in a guy who looks like a troll is seen as arrogance, in a good looking guy it’s confidence. Halo and horns effect.

There is a lot of virtue signalling, but when looking at actions, looks matter a lot to both men and women (pretty close actually, in how much it is valued by both parties).

1 Like
352

Anecdotal exceptions prove, not disprove the rule.

The point is that Fauci was the one introducing the ideas that AIDS can be spread in these various ways that only served to fuel hysteria.

Fauci is a very political guy. Hell, he is partially responsible for the virus if all the accusations of him pushing U.S. funding to the Wuhan Lab are true, which seem more likely than not. ‘The Intercept’ did a huge expose showing that Fauci lied to congress when he said he did not allow for such funding.

353

Because of that. It occurred to me that I wasn’t attacking your ideas, but you. And as unscrupulous as I can be, I don’t want to descend to that level. So I apologize for the low blow. I deleted it because I recognized the wrong in it.

Whether or not all girls are hot or not isn’t the issue. It’s the national trends, the precipitous decline in marriage and birth rates, the tremendous increase of ‘spinsters’ who try but actually cannot do it on their own. All this, plus the increase in crimes the decrease of median testosterone levels in young males, the decline in fertility of young males, etc., etc., etc., have a source. And that source is the break down of the family unit. Pick your version of dysfunction, divorce and remarriage and then more divorce and remarriage, single mothers**, single fathers, and on and on are all unworthy, barely functional replacements for the family unit.
And the family is under constant attack from people with luxury ideas, particularly the ‘modern woman’. Spurred on by 3rd wave feminism to remove the feminine from women, which has wreaked havoc and destroyed the family so thoroughly, that it’s the minority, by a large margin to have a stable intact family.
What are ‘luxury ideas’? These are destructive ideas one can have for others, but disregard it for themselves. Like ‘defund the police’, for the people uttering it can’t imagine a world without security, but it spreads to the weakest among us and festers like a poison until you have people basically advocating for their own destruction.
Any ‘idea’ or ‘rule’ that you would apply to others, but not live by yourself is a luxury idea and usually a shitty, destructive idea.
These are the lies spread by 3rd wave feminism that has creeped so far into regular discourse that a lot of people don’t even recognize they are saying something crazy.
To bring it back around, it’s the ‘modern woman’ ideal mind virus that is doing much of the damage. Men haven’t changed all that much over the past 50 years. There really is not a ‘modern man’ concept. Men still have to provision, protect and provide like they always have. But now they are expected to accept the ‘modern woman’ with the high body counts and nutty independent ideas about life, while still being expected to be provisioner, protector and provider. The problem is that men are increasingly not having it anymore. And while that may be good for them, it’s bad for society.
The big issue I see with your take, is it’s personal to you. Everything is an extension of yourself and your life and experience, with respect to these broad concepts that may not have anything to do with you personally, but it’s having massive and largely negative consequences across society. Society is broken. Sober looks at the reality of the situation is what is required to start to remedy, and bring about better outcomes for most people.

This is where you are way off. The day skews massively in the other direction. It’s worth looking at particularly since you are treating people for conditions caused by other people’s bad ideas.
Men are way more accepting and tolerant than women are. Male virginity and sexual encounters are skewing down en masse and women’s are going up. If what you say were true, it would be going the other way.
When it comes to being ‘picky’ women have dominated this space and men, only right now, are starting to get much more so.
Isolation and loneliness is a huge problem already and the data suggest that these gender wars are only going to skew it ever higher. Suicides are skewing way up. Why? Well, people have their imaginations but isolation and loneliness is a sure bet as to explaining a good portion of this data.
This is why a sober look, rather than just batting for your team, is more important. This isn’t stuff the government can do, government is downstream from culture and culture is royally fucked up right now.
Again, this isn’t my experience and it’s clearly not your experience, but it is happening and the first step to solving any problem is realizing there is one. And there is one, a big one.

1 Like
354

I don’t suppose you are familiar with the data on single parent family outcomes? Single mothers aren’t ‘making it happen’, they are at best, sustaining life. Parenting and keeping a child alive are different things. Because it’s impossible to be both parents. Single fathers are equally yoked in this too, but single mothers are the dominant majority in no short reason because of courts.
It consistently shocks me how little people know or even care to know about important things. Then spew completely, absurdly ass-backwards, meaningless platitudes from a bumper sticker as if it’s a good thing.

2 Likes
355

Almost every 20 year old woman can, with effort, be attractive enough to get a significant amount of male attention. All she has to do is don’t be fat, observe basic hygiene, dress decently, use a bit of tasteful makeup. Long hair helps. I’m not saying that every girl would be a 10. But good enough looking that she can get attention from regular guys. Of course, personality and such will matter, too. But looks will not be an insurmountable barrier to all male attention.

There are a small minority (probably less than 5%) who have significant deformities, serious mental illness, or other unchangeable barriers that do essentially make them undateable to most men, even when young. As women reach into their late thirties and into their 40s, the percentage of women that are basically invisible to men will start to greatly increase. Of course, many women through a combination of effort, good living conditions, and good genetics will stay attractive well into their 40s and some into their 50s. But this gets increasingly rare with age. (By attractive I am specifically referring to the ability of a woman to attract romantic interest from men she meets based on her physical appearance. Attraction in ongoing relationships and attraction in a more platonic way are much more complicated).

3 Likes
356

A good thing? Sir - no one, that I’ve ever met, has asserted that single parent families are a good thing. A family with two parents is always going to be better than one. I am pointing out the fact that women who find themselves in the position of having to “sustain life” seemingly get zero credit when they’re often forced into the position by absentee fathers. Sure, there are shitty moms out there who take kids from a loving father and claim alimony, but out of all of the broken families I know I can count on exactly zero fingers where this is the case. Plenty of dads who walked out and left their families to figure it out though. So in my book, moms who get left holding the bag for all parental responsibilities get props even if it is a suboptimal scenario. How men seemingly escape all critique in your otherwise unbroken stream of woman-disparagement is beyond me.

1 Like
357

Again, fabulously incorrect. Single mothers have more support by miles than their single father counterparts. You are clearly unaware of facts data and trends that are occuring in real life. You’re putting facts over feelings and are an obvious sheep. Everything your talking about is anecdotal, virtually nothing I am talking about has anything to do with me, except for how it figures in to society at large and how it’s affecting the world around me in mostly negative ways.
But you follow the ‘modern woman’ ideal to a T. Based on this and simply knowing your age I can make several predictions about you that will be more or less spot on.
What is the ‘modern woman’ ideal? It’s behavior expressed by an acronym call ‘SIGN language’:
Shame
Insults
Guilt
and the Need to be right.
You have no skin in the game but the instinct is obviously irresistible, you cannot stop yourself though you have already dismissed me as insignificant long ago. An insignificant person doesn’t deserve your attention. Ah, but the instinct to demonstrate power by attempting reputation destruction through SIGN language is too strong to just let go. In the end, you proved my point spectacularly.

358

I think most women, like most people, are turned off by assholes. Also, asshole is subjective anyway.

359

Not always. Some parents should get divorced, or have never married or cohabitated. I agree with everything else you posted.

360

I do enough analytics as part of my job to know the difference between data-driven conclusions and supporting data that has been backed in to with the intent of supporting preconceived notions. I don’t need to do a deep dive to understand where you’re coming from on this.

I always wondered what bucket I fell into. At least now you don’t have to take any dissenting opinions seriously.

What would count as skin in the game? I’m a decade into a great marriage with two kids, so there’s my contribution to the preservation of the family unit. Or maybe my skin in the game is preparing a daughter for a world in which some people will ignore her abilities and beauty and explain away her successes as having been achieved unfairly or perhaps even on the “cock carousel”.

If you say so, though God knows what it was.

1 Like
361

Fair - there are exceptions.

362

This is really a difficult issue to tackle because there is a lot nuance to it, all thing are not equal for both sexes but it does need to be discussed and figured out. Sure humanity will go on, but how is the problem…
Most young women have significant advantages over men in the same age/ peer group. However, that inverts around the age of 35, where men start to have significant advantages over there younger counterparts. Men have to build value and that takes time. Women have innate value that decreases over time. I am fortunate to be in the half of men who are significantly advantaged over my young peers.
This value I speak of is the sexual marketplace value. The sex you are pursuing, the sexual market place, decides you have no say in the matter. Women’s primary value proposition is beauty and youth which decreases over time. Men’s value is primarily provision which increases over time. So why do 25 yr old chicks date men in their 50’s? Provision. Money. Power. 25 yr old men have none of those. If they are lucky they are handsome, in shape and have a promising future, but that doesn’t fit in with the “What have you done for me lately” narrative. So more and more young men are left out in the cold.
Male virginity remaining to the age 29 has doubled over the last 10 years. That is an indication that our young men are increasingly in a crisis. If it were voluntary this would be a different discussion.
What changed from 2000 to 2021? The internet. On-line dating, as a primary force of human relationship, has come in like a wrecking ball. Young men are suffering. Suicides are going through the roof, why? Because their fucking lonely.
I never had experiences like young men have today. Young ladies are primarily dating out of their peer group, over 5 years older in many cases. How’s a 20 year old dude supposed go get laid when all the girls are dating 25 yr olds? How’s a 25 year old dude supposed to get laid when all his peers are dating 30 plus years old?
This is not an insignificant problem, it at least has to be recognized as that.

Yes, young women in decent shape and relative good health have it way easier than their male peers
However, that coin flips significantly around 35.
The men have a significant advantage over they female peers. One may say, ‘Oh good, karma!’ No, this is not a good thing. Young people need to be with young people and build, but that’s not happening. Our future literally depends on this and we cannot put the internet back in the bottle.
got to be figured out and done so healthily.
Simply put, we cannot do this alone.

2 Likes
363

Straight out of the incel manifesto.

364

Wasn’t that always the case?
My mother is 6 years younger than my father. Both my grandmothers are 4 to 6 years younger than my grandfather.

2 Likes
365

Younger women marrying older men is not a problem. 20 year old men will become 35 year old men and have their day in the sun. In fact, while the ages involved vary, younger women marrying older men has been the norm in many cultures for much of history.

The problem we have is increasing promiscuity and infidelity. It has huge side effects.

1 Like
366

Question: would you consider men going after women promiscuous or does it just apply to women going after men