More Trouble Than I Am Worth: Chaos Is The Plan (T3hPwnisher Log)

Of course, I appreciate you taking the time to engage.

Yes, I do understand this. I didn’t when I first came across BBB on Jim’s website as it doesn’t mention this stuff, but having spent some time researching (without the book mind you) I have learned this to be true. I am considering picking up 1 or 2 of his books. I’m guessing Forever and maybe Beyond?

Yes.

It is a low incline that I use, but I’m not married to the idea. The switch was merely preference based and I’m happy to bench flat. Of course I want that meaty upper chest though, I won’t lie. I’ll also add that I will probably use BTN overhead pressing as it usually feels better on my shoulders than regular OHP.

As for RDL’s, this is a movement that I have never focused on or used much in all of my training years and I thought it might be worth running a cycle of strength and volume on it. I am wanting to bring up my posterior chain through it. I am conventional deadlifting in the mid 400’s but my hams are a weak point and simply doing more deadlifting isn’t helping, although I really like the trap bar and have had carryover to my conventional from it, so I’d consider using it instead of RDL’s. Maybe TBDL main work, RDL supplemental?

This turns out to be a bread and butter for me and tends to fix a lot of issues in the feet and hips. But again, I’m not married to anything here. But having seen Jim recommend 5x6 single leg work for BBB (instead of squat 5x10) I have been trying it and it seems to work fine. Also my squat pattern is greatly improved for a couple days after lunges, so the idea was to do them in this manner on upper body days and taking the positive effect into my actual squat day so I can get the most of out those. Frankly if I had to drop squatting altogether and just lunge I wouldn’t be mad. I need them more frequently.

My intent here is to go light and use them to open up the ribcage a bit. I wanted something to do between sets of legs where I can breath into the intercostals and also warm up for pull ups and rows. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

The 1-arm pressing has been great core work and is working out some issues in my scapula/shoulders (especially the low incline version). I also considered doing the BBB work with 1-arm. I know he’s given the pass on doing the BBB work with single-leg work at 5x6 as I mentioned above.

Anyways, I appreciate the response. To be honest I hadn’t given that much thought to the lack of flat pressing and really my only concern about it was lack of triceps involvement.

2 Likes

I am considering picking up 1 or 2 of his books. I’m guessing Forever and maybe Beyond?

If only getting 1, I’d get Forever. If getting 2, those are 2 good picks. But at that point, it’s worth picking up the $10 kindle copy of 2nd edition as well, so you have the background.

Of course I want that meaty upper chest though, I won’t lie.

In that case, I’d make this the priority for the ASSISTANCE work. It’s purpose is muscle building. The main work is there for strength. You shouldn’t be building much muscle on it, as you won’t be straining on it. And as a strength movement, picking a lift where you can lift heavy on it works well.

I’ll also add that I will probably use BTN overhead pressing as it usually feels better on my shoulders than regular OHP.

I could see this for supplemental, but I wouldn’t do it for a main lift.

As for RDL’s, this is a movement that I have never focused on or used much in all of my training years and I thought it might be worth running a cycle of strength and volume on it. I am wanting to bring up my posterior chain through it. I am conventional deadlifting in the mid 400’s but my hams are a weak point and simply doing more deadlifting isn’t helping, although I really like the trap bar and have had carryover to my conventional from it, so I’d consider using it instead of RDL’s. Maybe TBDL main work, RDL supplemental?

This is a possibility. I’m not a fan of the RDL as a main lift, but I could see value as a supplemental. Another choice would be good mornings. ANOTHER option would be to use dumbbell RDLs as assistance work to bring up the hamstrings.

My intent here is to go light and use them to open up the ribcage a bit. I wanted something to do between sets of legs where I can breath into the intercostals and also warm up for pull ups and rows. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

I’m happy to hear that. I like pullovers for exactly that.

The 1-arm pressing

I TOTALLY did not read “1a” to mean “1 arm”. I’m used to “1a” referring to the first exercise in a superset (1a/1b). That definitely changes things.

1 Like

Okay awesome, so let me see if I got this all right.

Every session I perform 100-150 band pulls as well as DB rotations (as instructed by Tom Morrison) in my warm ups, along with thoracic/hip specific movements. Before I get into warming up with the barbell I’ll do 10-15 jumps/throws/slams. When squatting I like to do some Zerchers in the warm ups as they ingrain the squat pattern the most naturally for me.

A

  • Bench press: 5’s pro w/ neck work

  • Bench press/BB shrug: 5x10

  • Low incline DB press or Dips (maybe light face pulls too): 3x8-10

  • Walking lunges: 3x8-10

  • Abs: 3-5 sets

B

  • Back squat: 5’s pro w/ neck work

  • Back squat/Pullover: 5x10

  • Pull up: 25 reps

  • Kroc row: 1-2 warm up/rhythm sets & 1x30

  • 1A incline press: 25-30 reps (serves as core work)

C

  • OHP: 5’s pro w/ neck work

  • OHP/DB shrug: 5x10

  • Triceps (maybe s/s with curls): 3x8-10

  • Walking RDL: 3x8-10 (I’ve seen Dan John call these Death March or something, Mark Bell recently did a video and called it Deadman walking or something to that effect) or DB RDL’s or more Lunges.

  • Abs: 3-5 sets

D

  • TBDL: 5’s pro w/ neck work

  • Zercher good morning, RDL or more TBDL/Pullover: 5x10

  • Pull up: 25-50 reps

  • T bar or Seal row: 3x15 or whatever

  • 1-arm OHP: for reps or time, just getting them done

It seems like he doesn’t program the Assistance work, so anything except the Main, Supplemental and Pulling/Core work is pretty negotiable.

1 Like

I like the look of this a lot!

I’ve done the death march before. As far as I know, it’s a Glenn Pendlay invention.

Which, you actually led me down the rabbit hole to find THIS thread, which is awesome

I think you’ve got something good here

3 Likes

RED MEAT AND BLACK COFFEE

Once again, I have engaged in some nutritional experimentation and wanted to share my approach and outcomes with you.

BACKGROUND INFO

On 6 Jan 2026, I returned from a New Year’s Disney Cruise vacation. Leading up to this vacation, I was in a gaining phase of training (my birthday is late October, and with Thanksgiving and Christmas soon after that, I leverage that timeframe for gaining/feasting), and the morning after my travels home I weighed in at 89.1kg: a gain of 6kg in 15 weeks. Now it was January, which is an excellent time to lose weight, because the WHOLE WORLD is doing it, so no one is going to question/judge you for doing so. But along with that, I had a strongman competition on 21 Feb to prep for, and the kind of training I do for that is the kind of training that DOESN’T require the excess food that gaining training requires, so I knew I was going to reduce my food intake.

It’s 29 Jan as I write this, and I weighed in this morning at 81.4kg. Now, already I’ll cop to the huckstering going on here: the 89.1kg weigh in is a post travel weigh in, and we all know that traveling bloats us and this morning’s weigh in was after a 90 minute ruck, so there’s a sweat element involved. HOWEVER, if my goal was to make weight for a weight class, none of that would matter, as all that counts is what the scale shows. But, along with that, my performance in training hasn’t suffered (and, in fact, I’ve continued to make steady progress) and I’ve achieved “non-scale victories” as well, primarily that latching the lever on my lifting belt is no longer a workout in and of itself and my clothes are fitting better. So with that, allow me to document the approach I employed, which I am referring to as “Red Meat and Black Coffee”…primarily because I love how well that syncs up.

PRINCIPLES

· Don’t get hungry. This isn’t white knuckling.

· When you eat, eat carnivore/animal. You’re going to need to maximize opportunities to get in protein, and being ketogenic/fat adapted will limit hunger.

· When you DON’T eat, allow yourself black coffee. Don’t add sweeteners/cream/butter/etc. This is fasting with an aid.

· Eat after lifting weights. Don’t eat after conditioning.

· 2 meals a day on non-fasting days, 1 meal a day on fasting days.

THE METHOD

Put very simple: twice per week, instead of breakfast, I have black coffee. And all my meals are carnivore.

But now let’s expand.

Prior to this, I’d settled into a pattern of eating 2 meals per day: a breakfast and a dinner. I still like that approach, so it’s the framework I operate within. Understanding that, it seemed logical that, if I did NOT eat one of those 2 meals, I’d be taking in less food, and the outcome would be weight loss.

Shocking, I know, but I’ll continue.

One of the things I like about a carnivore approach to nutrition is how satiating it is. When you eat ONLY animal products, you have limited opportunities to spike your blood sugar. This means you don’t experience the compensatory crash that coincides with the spike, which means you never get “hangry”. Hunger does eventually show up, but it’s a slow burn, in the background, easy to ignore unless it becomes dire. It sounds like how people describe GLP-1 agonists shutting off “food noise”. It makes any manner of fasting pretty easy, which is something I noticed on my travels during long flights.

Along with that, there is something of an “opening the floodgates” when it comes to eating. Once we START eating, we get a taste for it (pun unintended but whatever) and want to KEEP doing it. If we never really start the process, we just remain at baseline.

And then, along with all that, black coffee is a known appetite suppressant. Part of that is the caffeine content, but even decaf can have the effect. And since it’s winter, a warm beverage is honestly a treat, and can go very far to satisfy cravings for comfort that can be misinterpreted for needs for food. And much like pain medication, I don’t drink coffee when I feel hungry: I drink coffee before I feel hunger.

All this having been said, I want to make it ABSOLUTELY clear that at no point am I actually HUNGRY during this process. This is NOT about white knuckling my way through hunger to achieve a fast. I feel like that’s an unsustainable AND problematic approach to fat loss. This “works” because I’m able to reduce food intake WITHOUT actually ever being hungry. That’s the ideal fat loss solution.

THE HOW AND WHY

I’ve paired this nutritional approach with the Tactical Barbell Operator program, which, without going into too much detail, is 3 days per week of lifting. I train first thing in the morning, fasted. After the lifting workouts, I’ll have a post training breakfast, and then, about 10-12 hours after that, I’ll have a dinner. I’ll also have some protein before bed (more on that later).

During a standard workweek, this means I have 2 days where I DON’T lift weights first thing in the morning. On those days, I do conditioning workouts (a 90 minute ruck on Thursdays, and a fast/short high intensity conditioning workouts [HIC] on Tuesdays). On these days, I don’t have breakfast: I just have a black coffee (usually mixed with unflavored electrolytes).

From there, I try to limit myself to only 2 cups of coffee on lifting days and 3 cups on non-lifting days, primarily because I have an addictive personality and things can quickly get out of hand, but I honestly see no issue with drinking however much black coffee one wants so long as it’s not having consequences (primarily sleep impacts, but also digestive any otherwise).

Weekends, I allot for having a breakfast and a dinner (primarily because my wife is an absolute saint and will make breakfast for the whole family on both days), but if an opportunity presents where I can fast through one of those breakfasts (we all slept in and the day is getting away from us), I’ll just go with the black coffee. As far as training goes, for this particular experiment, I was doing the Crossfit WOD “Grace” on Saturdays, while Sunday was a down day (at most, getting in a long walk).

So we end up with effectively a 2-3 meal deficit over the course of the week. COULD that same end result be achieved by keeping the meals the same and simply eating less at them? Yes, of course…but I find that this requires willpower to be able to accomplish. One has to actually STOP eating, even though they are STILL hungry for more food. And, ultimately, I believe that a nutritional protocol that is reliant upon willpower is one that will ultimately fail, as willpower is a finite resource. And then, along with that, ONCE willpower fails, there is a compensatory counter-binge that occurs as a means for the body to “correct” what has been done to it through willpower. This is how/why people end up going on junkfood benders after sustained periods of intense dieting.

Instead, I am able to eat to satiety at all meals: I simply have fewer meals. Mark Bell has a good quote that “after you fast, you have to pretend like it never happened”, which is a cautionary tale to avoid gorging after fasting under the premise that you get to “eat back” all those calories you didn’t eat. This IS good advice, because it’s very easy to undo the caloric deficit of one skipped meal with a binge, BUT, this is where the “red meat” portion of the approach is helpful.

As previously stated: animal foods tend to be more satiating than others. Dr. Ted Naiman has discussed the notion of a protein threshold that compels us to hunger and that, upon reaching it, hunger fades. Yet we ALSO are all familiar with the concept of a “dessert stomach”, wherein, no matter HOW satiated we are, we tend to find room for desserts at the end of the meal. So by eliminating sweet/carby sources of nutrition and focusing purely on animal foods, we put ourselves in a position wherein, even eating just ONE meal a day, we can reach satiety BEFORE we put ourselves at risk of overconsuming. But let’s dig even deeper.

One of the concerns regarding eating only one meal per day, for someone interested in physical pursuits, is not getting in adequate amounts of protein. Well here’s another 1-2 punch: by ONLY eating animal foods at our one meal, we allow for the possibility of taking in a significant enough amount of protein to have a sufficient amount to ward off muscle sparing AND there is evidence that ketones THEMSELVES are muscle sparing. And given the nature of this diet (fasting mimicking AND fasting legitimately), there is a fair chance we will BE in a state of ketosis. Plus, those 2 meal days give us ample opportunity to REALLY overload on protein, which can carry the water on those days where we’re only having one meal. And on top of all this, one those 1 meal days, we can find ourselves a little hungrier come dinner time compared to the 2 meal days, so we may end up taking in even MORE protein than usual. Yes: this means we’re not achieving a FULL “2-3 meal deficit” if we’re eating like a 1.5 meal at the end of those 1 meal days…but we’re STILL achieving a deficit, because it’s quite challenging to eat 2 meals worth of food in the span of 1 meal. Yes: I’ve done it before…but it’s not something I can do EVERY day.

But, aside from that, I DO have a protein feeding before sleep as well. Some could classify that as a meal, and feel free to do so if that helps you understand the system, but this was initially a scoop of Metabolic Drive protein powder mixed in water, and has now become the same scoop of powder but mixed with 170g of full fat Greek yogurt/skyr. Stan Efferding’s “Vertical Diet 3.0” book (recently reviewed) convinced me on the value of bringing this back into my nutrition. This gets in a little extra protein AND gives the body something slow absorbing to work on while we sleep.

QUICK SUMMARY

Monday/Wednesday/Friday: Lift weights and eat 2 carnivore meals per day (post training and one other) along with one pre-bed protein feeding.

Tuesday/Thursday: Train conditioning and eat 1 carnivore meal per day along with one pre-bed protein feeding.

Saturday/Sunday: Short high intensity workout on Saturday, allow up to 2 meals on each day, but free to skip 1 meal on one day, still include pre-bed protein feeding.

On all days: allow for black coffee as a beverage.

8 Likes

Yes! It was Pendlay! Great find man. Quite a throwback.

Awesome man, seriously appreciate your honest feedback and engagement.

2 Likes

@howie424 - I wholeheartedly agree with Pwn’s opinion, FWIW: Beyond is worth having, but Forever is the 5/3/1 go-to.

I’ve actually got all 3, and I find myself reviewing each of them for different things at different times—I’m a 5/3/1 junkie, and they’re well-worth the money spent, IMO.

4 Likes

Thanks @SvenG , appreciate the feedback. Glad to find a 5/3/1 junkie. I’ve been following Jim off and on for years now just off of T-Nation and have run a basic 5/3/1 scheme a few times with success, but I’m just now planning on getting into his actual books. I’ve been reading his blog quite a bit over the past year or so and really like his approach to basically everything actually.

2 Likes

Nutrition Recap

True to Red and Black, breakfast was black coffee. Dinner was a leftovers night taco bowl, with 6oz of airfried lamb, 5 scrambled eggs, 5 egg whites, ground beef, and a touch of sour cream and colby jack.

9 Likes

Not at all the same but I grabbed Eat Stop Eat by Brad Pilon(per Dan John) and I have noticed some of my best aesthetic gains of my life at 38. It also makes meal prep much more tolerable as I only need to prep 3 days vs 5(work week). The book is cheap so I wont go into detial, in summary its 1-2 24 hour fast per week. I feel really good with this approach and have lost some unneeded BF as well.

Granted, I am in surgery rehab mode so my training is extremely light, but I have not noticed any negative impacts there either. Side note, I also grabbed Brad’s Anabolic Fasting Protocol which I plan to incorporate once I can train with some intensity again. I think fasting is a useful tool if used correctly. Im a believer that its more natural for us to go without food for periods of time vs eating around the clock.

Great write up btw!

3 Likes

@dietdrfapper Great shout there dude! I’ve heard good things about Pilon. Like you, I dig that I only need to make 3 breakfasts instead of 5. If nothing else, it’s cost cutting, haha. I really dig playing around with fasting, and the various methods employed. I’ve been listening to Nick Norwitz and Dom D’agostino discuss a sardine fasting protocol that sounds fascinating. The biggest limiter for me is being a family man (which I’m in no way calling a negative, as I’d rather than a family and not fast than fast and not have a family, haha), as I want to enjoy meals with them rather than be dad at the table eating his tin of sardines while everyone else is having dinner. But having coffee at the breakfast table has been a good compromise.


AM WORKOUT (0400 wake up via alarm)

TACTICAL BARBELL OPERATOR Week 4, Workout 5

MAIN WORK

SSB front squat
5x5x230

ALTERNATE w/

Axle strict press from rack
5x5x161+1 push press per set

Chins between sets

CONDITIONING

3 rounds of 150lb sandbag medley

ASSISTANCE

Lateral raise dropset
35x10, 35x5, 35x2.5, 35xEmpty Hands

Band pull aparts
35

Notes:

  • By Friday, I don’t want to train any more, but knowing that it IS Friday and training is what stands between me and Friday night with the family is strong enough motivation. Having an awesome breakfast to look forward to post training also helps.
  • Knees were a little stiff coming into this, but by the end I found those smooth reps again. I attribute it to activity in Tang Soo Do last night. We had some lunges and tuck jumps, along with LOTS of forms work, and my knees held up the entire time. Good sign all around.
  • These were some of the best picks I’ve had with the sandbag. The practice is paying off.
  • Got in a 1:33 hold last night. New PR. Seeing trends moving upward. Should see some payoff in the Hercules Hold.
  • Weighed in at 83.7kg. More accurate weight compared to yesterday.

EDIT:

I just re-checked my competition and they bumped the carry medley WAY heavier than before. From 150lbs to 225lbs on the sandbag and Iron cross. It’s a toss up, because the press is lighter for the masters class but the carry is lighter on the 80kg class. There’s no competition in the 80kg class so far, whereas just 1 other guy in the Masters.

Ultimately, this is a charity comp, so either way isn’t a big deal. But I’ll have some room to maneuver. And I’ll keep my eyes out to see if more competition signs up.

13 Likes

Nutrition Recap

Breakfast was 14.5oz of airfried grassfed lamb, some beef liver, and 3 whole eggs with 5 whites.

Dinner was a full rack of ribs minus 2 (showing some restraint there) along with some brisket.

7 Likes

What happened to that brisket?

I posted this in my log, but I think it’s worth reposting here. You and I have talked about January previously, and this quote perfectly sums up what I love about it. It’s not about NY resolutions and permission, but about having the quiet all to yourself. A time to be self-focused without it impinging on anyone else. People can and do use the winter months to eat rich foods and couch rot. We each get to choose what to do with the privacy the short, cold days give us.

2 Likes

@doogie It got eaten, haha. My kid and I have a good scam going. They get the kid’s “loaded mac n cheese”, but order the brisket on the side. I get a side of corn bread with my meal. I don’t want the corn bread and my kid doesn’t want the brisket, so the meal comes and we swap. I get a kid’s sized portion of brisket as a side, and they take the corn bread and crumble it over their mac n cheese, to make a super carb loaded mac n cheese.

The best part is, the place TOTALLY knows that we do this, but they still play up the charade and serve my kid the brisket and me the corn bread each time we come in. But when I call in the order, they ask ME if I want brisket or pork for the side, haha.

@EmilyQ I really owe you so much for that reframe you provided me there. I never really appreciated the freedom to be found in January. As much as “New Year New Me” is cliche, it’s a license to try.

4 Likes

Someone needs to tell my coworkers about this - in the past month alone I’ve had someone tell me that my lunch looked like I dumped an entire buffet tray in a tupperware, and I’ve ALSO had someone tell me that my lunch looked “a little light compared to what I’m used to seeing you eat”. Luckily I’m a good sport and actually get a kick out of it, but I was telling my family that I wasn’t sure what it is about me that invites people’s unsolicited comments about my diet.

5 Likes

My brother in law tries to do this to my gf and me just to ragebait. It gets shutdown really quick when I grab his stomach and jiggle it.

The part that doesn’t make sense to me is that these same people who make comments about your food will express interest in a lifestyle change and ask questions randomly. For some reason, they think you owe them a response after months of comments on your food

Edit: my grammar when I’m I just woke up and got on my phone is trash

5 Likes

I get this at work too! Mine is more about the content of my lunch rather than the volume. It’s fun when people make the phrase “well you’re lunch looks healthy” into an insult. Lol. I don’t comment on other people’s lunches. Well, I guess sometimes I comment if they smell yummy.

3 Likes

Imagine if we flipped it…

“Can’t believe you’re eating that at your weight.”

3 Likes

I have gotten to the point where I will respond with a “well it’s a good thing I’m not making you eat it.”
The other one I find fun is when someone starts to defend their shitty lunch to me for absolutely no reason. “Well I know it’s not healthy, but I just love the cafeteria’s grilled cheese and I just really need my diet Mt Dew.” Yep. I didn’t ask and I don’t care.

3 Likes