More Trouble Than I Am Worth: Chaos Is The Plan (T3hPwnisher Log)

Training Training Logs
3434

I haven’t. I haven’t personally experienced any relationship between bodyweight and weight on the bar.

I’ve seen a lot of correlations that strongly suggests it exists, from “weight classes” to, well, people talking about gaining and losing strength as their weight changes. I’ve also seen cases where numbers have gone down while dieting, but that seems like it could also be because of operating with literally less energy to work with. I haven’t seen something where “I’m weaker at a lighter bodyweight, while also being in caloric surplus”.

I know some people have talked about “better leverages” (decreased ROM) and “better bounce” due to fat. Those both make sense to me for squats, bench, overhead press, but neither seem like they’d really come into play with a deadlift movement.

However, I recently read something about how strength can be increased by greater fat inside and between the muscle… better marbling, if you will. I can’t work out the mechanics of that, but it seems viable.

In summary, the parts that make sense:

  • weight gain → stronger because of more “free floating energy” due to calorie surplus, more muscle, better ROM/leverages
  • weight loss → weaker because of less “free floating energy” due to calorie deficit, less muscle (some lost while dieting), worse ROM/leverages

Outside of that, it seems there’s other factors, but I don’t know what they are.

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phew that was a long post, my fingers hurt just reading it, yours must have blisters after typing it. I love how you lay these post out and work though your decision making and thoughts around how all this fits together. I like the idea of mixing the two programs and if anyone can make it work for them, I have no doubt it will be you. Thanks again for letting me live vicariously through your programs whilst I stick to my old boring training.

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3436

You need to eat more, or do super squats, or do both.

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3438

Are you counting calories when in famine mode, or just ball parking your protein? Also, in famine about how much solid food you eating?

3439

I think you may be ignoring the most obvious one of “weight moves weight”. Having “weight to throw around” is a very real thing and greatly improves lifting, especially on something like the deadlift, wherein you’re effectively counter-levering against the barbell. The heavier trainee has more weight to employ AGAINST the bar.

Consider, also, the very real impact of “percentage of bodyweight lifted”. It’s a simple fact that, the closer you are in weight to the object being moved, the easier it will be to move that object (within reason). Benching 405lbs as a 200lb lifter is a 2xbodyweight lift. As a 300lb lifter? Only 1.5xBW. It’s why one of the simplest ways to improve a powerlifting total is to gain weight. As Hugh Cassidy said: you have to eat through the sticking points. That’s the story of Bruce Randall as well.

@simo74 Appreciate you swinging by, and always happy to let you live vicariously through me. I know inevitably I’ll get in your head and see you follow suit, haha. Really, these two programs blend together just about seamlessly. The real “trick” will be figuring out what to do once MMS is done, but even then I’m sure I can come up with something.

@bjiral I’ve actually never counted calories OR protein before in my life, and have no plans to start. I did a pretty big write-up on my nutrition, to include the famine portion. See if it’s helpful.

Got in my push ups and squats while dinner cooked, and the Mrs and I got our third stripes in Tang Soo Do, so we’ll be able to test for brown belt in August. That’s a big milestone for us. Also, they announced the tournament schedule, and I actually might be able to make a strongman comp in Oct now. I just found one on 30 Sep that actually looks even better (looking your way there @BEAst_in_I ). I know I’m definitely a 181 these days at least, question of if I can actually put on any weight to fill OUT the weight class now.

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3440

You just had to throw that out there you, didn’t you. Thanks LOL

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3441

Dude thanks for always taking the time to answer questions that I’m sure you’ve answered elsewhere. I’ll re read that first post again!

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3442

uuurgggg… now you have me wanting to combine MMS with my easy strength program haha. I’ll give my ES a run at least through July so I can see the results before I start tinkering more with it, or maybe I’ll go to dan johns magic “everything works…for 6 weeks” mark

3443

Might not be on topic, but as a baseball fan, it is well known that many pitchers come back better after Tommy John surgery. That’s a ulnar ligament graft I think, so not a direct correlation, but…

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3444

Always an honor to get called out over here in any vein, but for it to be in homage to the 90s is truly akin to the Pope casually name-dropping me at Easter Mass (I assume, not being Catholic, that added up).

It’s impossible to keep up with all the good stuff going on over here - congrats on the new gig! I came to a new spot last fall, so I know the sentiment of “let this be the last time.” It’s been the most fun I’ve had at work in a lot of years, though, so I’m sure this will similarly be a great move for you.

I’ve always said I appreciate the writer you are, but I’ve really taken on your “narrative” idea in the workouts lately. I like the idea of letting my imagination tell a tale of the day’s work. That’s pretty 90s too - we used to look at comic books heroes or Flex magazine and go “play pretend” more or less.

It’s funny how the eating changes. I’ve always said I handle carbs better than fats, and I’m finding that’s no longer the case. I’m older and certainly more sedentary, but I’m doing better taking carbs away. I guess we just have to be willing to listen, as you pointed out.

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@simo74 I couldn’t ask for a more sincere form of flattery via imitation. You set a great standard, and continue to serve as an outstanding role model.

@bjiral Absolutely dude! Always happy to discuss. I can definitely clarify if there is any need. And, of course, this is just MY approach with Feast and Famine. Jamie lays it all out in his book and it’s VERY prescriptive, so if you’re the kinda guy that likes numbers, you’ll be all set.

@Lonnie123 I get in peoples’ heads! Haha. It’s my super power. But you’re absolutely spot on: you’re bound to find SOMETHING that will work for those 6 weeks. Once it stops working, abandon the love affair and find a new hotness. It’s not program hopping if you call it periodization!

@TrainForPain I’ll definitely appreciate that Catholic nod to my formal education, haha. And I hear you about keeping up on the logs: I feel bad that I’m not as active as I used to be, but, in turn, it means my “real” life is doing so well that I’m not spending all my time online. But the community here remains awesome, and you are a cornerstone to it’s excellence. I’m so excited to be beginning the end of my journey with this job for sure, and it’s been exciting seeing how you and your family are getting along. Glad the narrative approach has been working out for you, and I am STILL such a comic book nerd for exactly those reasons. I thought about doing a comic book style story for my next series of workouts as well. And Flex absolutely was a comic book on it’s own, haha. Cool to see you exploring nutrition more. It’s like we talked about previously: we are building ourselves into something different, which means that, as we change, so will our demands.

AM WORKOUT (0420 natural wake up) FASTED

MESS (Mass-Easy, Strength-Simple) WORKOUT 2

EASY STRENGTH WORK

Axle clean and strict press away SUPERSET w/Weighted chins (underhand)
3x3x136
3x3x30

(3) Axle double overhand deficit deadlift
3x3x205+chains

Standing ab wheel
1x10

Keg Carries (100lb keg)
2 trips keg locked out overhead (1 per side)

Remember that these are supposed to be LOADED carries, put on 20lb vest, continue w/

2 trips keg shouldered (1 per side)
1 trip keg bearhug carry
1 trip keg crass body carry

BOXING

5 2 minute rounds w/30 seconds rest

  • Rounds 1-4 focus on technique and combinations, round 5 constant attack for full 2 minutes

5 MINUTES OF CONDITIONING

21 DKB front squats w/24kg bells
21 burpees
15 goblet squats w/24kg bell
15 burpees
Goblet squat until timer runs out

2 mile walk w/dog

THEN breakfast

Notes:

  • Still getting a feel for where the program is going to go, but this was a fantastic proof of concept run. Got in the lifting, to include the carries, the BAS work, and a short conditioning workout. For that final bit, it was all based off time available, and then I also remembered how Dan said he couldn’t get the squat to work with Easy Strength so it was best to include it in the warm-up to keep the movement grooved, and I feel like this answered the mail. I also think I’ll stick with goblets whenever possible, because they rock, but in the heat of the moment I was just coming up with whatever I could to make my heart beat.

  • Weights were much closer to the intention of the program today. Almost blacked out on the final set of the press, but ultimately that’s just early morning blood pressure stuff. No real way to overcome it. The weight itself wasn’t terribly heavy. Deads with chains are absolutely the way forward. Stupidly forgot the vest for the first set of carries, but after that things were good, AND I remembered the option of wearing CHAINS alongside a weighted vest, so now I have more ways available to “never repeat the same carry workout” per Dan’s instructions.

  • It was good to hit the BAS again. It had a conditioning effect, and it got me moving my body through space. I have to make a concentrated effort to really let my hips get loose, let my arms extend, be fluid, move around, etc. Make the most of this tool and this training. But, if nothing else, it’s just good to “be back”. It’s also good to not really care about if I’m doing it right. I’m sure the internet will tear apart my technique and everything else. I WILL say that this is literally my first time every training in “this body”. I’ve never been this light while doing striking. I wrestled near this bodyweight, but was always heavier when I was training boxing. I FEEL lighter, and moving is a bit easier.

  • Walking the dog was a target of opportunity. Didn’t think I’d have the chance. Gave me a chance to extend the fast. In that regard, I think “fasted” training is the way forward for me. I write fasted in quotes because I’m having a shake around midnight each night, so I’m really not far away from my last food intake, and in turn I’m not waking up hungry nor do I feel like my performance is suffering. I don’t get hungry in the middle of the workout like I used to. If that changes, I’ll change, but this seems to be working out well enough. I say all this while I’m technically running “Mass Made Simple”, so maybe I’m totally missing the point…but Chaos is the plan.

  • Looking to get in another walk with the family this evening, and I’ll find some time for some push ups and squats.

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3446

Truth be told, I read the book and I’m NOT a numbers guy, which is why I dig your version, and I’m in the same boat with a job and kids etc. Again, I’m sure I’ll ask more dumb questions, but thanks for the responses

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3447

That’s why I liked the Velocity Diet so much: it’s scoops of protein rather than calculating numbers. 2 scoops if you weigh between X and Y, 2.5 scoops if you’re heavier. Couldn’t be simpler.

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3448

That all sounds really pretty awesome.

And I hope there wasn’t any misinterpretation yesterday. I can’t do 99% of what you can; it was just a programming question with nothing even remotely intended to sound critical.

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@LoRez much appreciated dude, and not at all interpreted as critical. I often have to remind readers that I am, in fact, still human, haha. When I lose 15% of my bodyweight in 3 months, I won’t be able to move the same weights. With some competitions looming in the horizon, it’d be nice to have the scale move closer to the top of the weight class (which I NEVER thought would be 181 in that regard), and I’m excited about trying to do that with my current approach to nutrition, because that means eating even MORE meat and eggs, but right now the priorities are to keep riding this healing train as far as it will take me and letting my body determine what it wants to be from there.

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3450

Too kind mate.

Game recognises game and success leaves clues, more than happy to beg, steal and borrow all that I can from from you, that will help me stay harder to kill. Salute

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3451

AM WORKOUT (0418 natural wake up) FASTED

MESS (Mass-Easy, Strength-Simple) WORKOUT 3

Axle clean and strict press/weighted chin superset
3x3x136
3x3x30lb

(3) Axle double overhand deficit deadlift
3x3x205+chains

Standing ab wheel
1x10

Weighted 24kg KB carries w/60lb vest

  • Overhead lockout down, rack walk back
  • Rack one side, hang the other, then switch
  • Farmer carry
  • Suitcase carry
  • Duck walk

Hang it up go straight into 2 mile 60lb weighted vest walk in time of 34:55 at 3.4 mph pace

Notes:

  • This is straight out of the “Easy Strength for Fat Loss” playbook. Do the workout and then go straight out the door for a walk. In that, I feel like I’ve established a solid battle rhythm moving forward. Hitting up a “For Fat Loss” workout the workout BEFORE the “Mass Made Simple” workout is going to prime my body for growth, and it’s also going to serve very well into the purpose of a “rest” day, as this is very much tonic/non-taxing. Yeah, Dan would most likely consider this more in the realm of a recharge day, but for operating purposes, this fits really well. So the schedule can shake out MMS-Boxing-ESFFL-MMS-Boxing repeat. And that boxing day can slide into “hard WOD” day as desired.

  • Less sleep than usual today. Got to bed late.

  • Kept the weights the same as last time so I can really get a feel and “own them” ala Jim Wendler, who I was listening to on a Podcast while I walked and he had some very “Easy Strength” things to say regarding how he uses 5/3/1 with beginner trainees. It’s crazy how it all comes around.

  • Getting a little better handle on keeping my head on the clean and press. Was able to fight through the spins.

  • Chains were getting in the path of the plates on the pulls, forcing me to pull from a poor position, which is honestly great chaos training. Good for competition prep.

  • I love that I can just wing the carries. It’s basically “structured play”.

  • Stepped on the scale and saw 170.something. Good to see me trending upward.

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3452

I saw you didn’t take a day off before repeating the same workout, so I did a small bit of reading on Easy Strength. My first impression? “This seems a lot like something Pavel would have come up with… Oh”.

Did you ever run Power to the People? Pretty similar. Lift every day, a pull and a push. Top set x 5, then 90% of that x 5. And a optional mass-building variant: an 80% AMRAP set after the other two sets. By far my favorite basic routine for my head, if not necessarily for my joints.

:slight_smile: I actually was thinking about how can you make deficit DOH axle deadlifts with chains even harder.

(Snatch grip. And something to make it wobble: chain yoke-ish or KBs off bands. That’s what I came up with.)

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@LoRez Never ran Power to the People, but Pavel is key to this story. It’s pretty interesting how Pavel delivered it to Dan in 5 sentences and Dan has managed to write 2 books, one at over 300 pages, and speak for hours on the program. That Omnibook is well worth picking up too: Dan’s best work to date.

And I could always just make the pull harder by coating my hands in butter beforehand, haha.

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3454

Chaos is the Plan: I just signed up for 2 competitions within 2 weeks of each other. Details to follow.

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