Thanks for that guys and apologies for hijacking your log mate
I’m still howling at the science fiction line
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You never need to apologize for swinging by dude. Just your presence brings life and energy. It’s much appreciated.
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Thanks brother
This is definitely a style of eating that will need tinkering with as time goes on which is exciting
@boilerman whats a good fatty dressing ?
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I used blue cheese dressing a lot, mostly because I love it, I can eat a lot of it and it’s high calorie, but the one I used is far from deepwater approved due to the soybean oil. I’m sure I could’ve found a way to make my own, but convenience was king in my life.
SOYBEAN OIL, CULTURED NONFAT BUTTERMILK (SKIM MILK, VITAMIN A, VITAMIN D3), BLUE CHEESE (PASTEURIZED MILK, CHEESE CULTURES, SALT, ENZYMES, NATAMYCIN [MOLD INHIBITOR]), SOUR CREAM (CULTURED NONFAT MILK, CREAM), EGG YOLKS, DISTILLED VINEGAR, CONTAINS LESS THAN 2% OF SPICE, GARLIC*, SALT, MUSTARD BRAN, XANTHAN GUM. *DEHYDRATED
If and when I run deepwater again, I’ll probably sub it out for something that actually fits in the guidelines or make my own. Just doing a quick Google search, I found a whole bunch of “keto friendly” dressings that seem to fit in the guidelines both in minimal carb and healthy, like this one
Italian vinaigrette
Ingredients
1 Tbsp of Italian seasoning
1 cup (240 ml) of olive oil
4 Tbsp (60 ml) of red wine vinegar
1/2 tsp of salt
1/4 tsp of ground black pepper
1 Tbsp (15 ml) of Dijon mustard
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I’m a fan of the “Primal Kitchen” brand for “clean” supplements.
For their ranch dressing
“Avocado Oil, Water, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Egg Yolks, Sea Salt, Organic Distilled Vinegar, Organic Gum Acacia, Organic Guar Gum, Cream of Tartar, Organic Onion Powder, Organic Garlic Powder, Organic Lemon Juice Concentrate*, Nutritional Yeast, Organic Parsley, Organic Chives, Organic Dill, Organic Black Pepper, Organic Rosemary Extract.”
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not @boilerman but mixing balsalmic or red wine vinegar with olive oil makes for a very nice salad dressing that, from what I understand, would be DW approved
If it’s available to you, you could also use tahini or mix tahini with kefir for a thicker, mediterranean style dressing
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I think I’ve seen you mention that brand before, I’ll definitely check them out!
@anna_5588 that’s a good idea, even though it wasn’t meant for me. I’ve been eating (drinking?) A lot of kefir lately
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Got in 23 ABCs in 5 minutes w/24kg bells, 17 unbroken to start, which is a PR of some sort. When I first started doing ABCs, I got 18 in 5 minutes. 17 unbroken took me 2:45. That’s pretty nutty. Also nutty that it took me another 2:15 to get in 6 more, but such is life.
Also, been meaning to share this, but last week I was (expectantly) sore on Friday. The Mrs noticed.
I said “I’m going to brag for a minute: I did 1000 dips yesterday”
Her response “Holy crap why?! …I mean…good job honey”
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Ok last question
I’m using a calculator for calories and macros as I’m trying to dial things in and lean out before I go on a last bulk
My keto based approach calls for 105g of protein a day which I’m exceeding wildly
I’m going down the rabbit hole of keto videos and the general consensus is that excess protein intake will heighten insulin which will kill the fat burning adaptation as I won’t go into ketosis
This is actually beginning to piss me off because it’s going against my principles of no calorie counting and worrying over small details
I guess I’m looking for reassurance here. Is it pointless worrying about excess protein when ultimately all I’m eating right now is nutrient dense foods?
To clarify: are you wanting to do keto or Deep Water? The latter isn’t keto. Ketosis can happen, but its not the goal
I’m all over the place here 
The end goal is adherence to the deep water style of nutrition.
The current strategy is fat loss through the eradication of carbs mainly.
I used the keto option on CarbonDiet as I felt this closely resembled the deep water nutritional choices
Apologies if this is confusing. It is for me!
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@ChongLordUno No sweat dude: it’s a confusing world.
WARNING: LONG nutrition rant ahead
Keto is specifically about switching what your body uses as a primary fuel source. Most bodies tend to be “carb burners”, and run off glucose. When we enter a state of ketosis, we switch to using fat as a fuel source. That’s why “keto flu” happens as described earlier: if you switch your fuel source to fat, and then you ingest a bunch of garbage fats, you’re burning garbage for fuel, so you get sick.
All that said, the body is VERY adaptive. The fact “ketosis” is even a thing is proof of concept of that: the body will eventually switch fuel sources if FORCED to. BUT, the body plays dirty, and will do everything it can to NOT make that swap, to INCLUDE turning protein into sugar. That process is known as Gluconeogenesis. And, as you’ve identified: the body does that when it has a surplus of protein to choose from. The body enters ketosis as a “last ditch effort”, when it surveys the horizon and sees that there is WAY more fat than protein to use for fuel. But, in the presence of an abundance of protein, it will turn the protein into glucose and use that.
But does that even matter? Unless your specific goal is to be in ketosis and become a fat burner: no. And as far as Deep Water goes, it’s not about being in ketosis, NOR is is about counting calories or macros (Jon is really opposed to that, which is why I dig it). It’s about quality food choices, prioritizing protein and healthy fats and eliminating carbs simply because there is NO ROOM for them. When you are ingesting tons of quality protein and fats, you have no need for carbs.
All THAT said: there’s nothing magic about cutting carbs as far as fat loss goes. Back in the 80s, it was the reverse: you ate a TON of carbs and barely any fats. That worked then, but f**k me that sounds awful. The reason cutting carbs “works” for many is that carbs are just VERY easy to overeat compared to protein. People will DRINK 40g of carbs in a soda and not even register it, but a protein shake can sit heavy in the guts, to say nothing of taking on 500 calories of dry chicken breasts vs 500 calories of rice or potatoes. Fats occupy an interesting space for me there, in that I could eat an entire jar of sunflower seed butter and be ready to move on to another meal after that, but that’s ALSO why Jon emphasizes prioritizing protein FIRST and fats making up the rest.
Your app can help guide you, but don’t let it handcuff you here.
AM WORKOUT (0415 wake up via alarm) FASTED
CHAOS IS THE PLAN Week 2, Workout 3
“KINDERGARTEN”
-
1 PBJ (TABEARTA w/95lbs w/3 complexes per round+5 min Burpee Chins (31 total)+50 KB swings w/40kg bell)
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5 minutes of ABCs w/24kg bells, 15 total (3 per round EMOM)
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.5 PBJ (4 round TABEARTA, 2.5 min BC (11 total), 25 swings)
POST WORKOUT SHAKE
DAILY WORK/CONDITIONING
- 30 GHRs
DAILY WORK CIRCUIT
- EMOM, buy-in w/3x135 front squat, then fill the rest of the minute with either dips, standing ab wheel, 90lb reverse hyper, band pull aparts or pushdowns until all numbers hit. Took 8 rounds. Spent the 9th round going for max reps on the front squat and got 12 done
Notes:
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I’ll keep patting myself on the back here, but I keep discovering gold. For the life of me, I don’t know if I can come up with a more effective 20-ish minute workout than Kindergarten. It just hits everything from all sorts of angles and leaves me floored. Key points are the transition from the swings to the ABCs and from the ABCs to the half TABEARTA. That’s where we “find ourselves”. The burpee chins occupy a nice spot in that it’s a chance to breathe if you want it, but you can also knuckle down and make something of yourself through it.
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All that said, once again: this was the absolute last thing I wanted to do this morning. Motivation even more shot than usual, and I attribute that to being outside a gaining phase. Always hard to get to “why” when I’m not building. But, like taking your medicine, once it was over I was glad I did it, AND doing something this ball busting helps. If I had just gone for a weighted vest walk, I’d really have been miffed.
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The daily work circuit at the end was a nice touch, specifically with the front squats for buy in. Definitely need to get more of those in.
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No real follow up planned for now. Tang Soo Do was canceled tonight, so family might just get some reps in. Tomorrow, I’m throwing on the vest and doing a LOT of weighted vest push ups.
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Really appreciate your taking the time to write that out brother. It makes total sense and I’m having second thoughts regarding utilising ‘keto protocol’. I think ultimately the end game is getting rid of shitty eating habits that I’ve built up recently ie binging on chocolate
This is exactly what I need to hear man
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Anytime I can lend perspective to you brings me joy my dude. You’re leading a helluva charge.
Dude, this TOTALLY checks with Jon’s approach. You read his story about the M&Ms. He basically switched from binging on candy to binging on flesh. And if you HAD to pick one, that at least makes sense. At least meat is going to have protein and fats and all sorts of stuff in it to help you transform.
It’s still “disordered eating”, but it’s at least aimed in the right direction. Sometimes, we need to just stop the bleeding before we can diagnose the patient.
In that regard, it might be worthwhile to have some “ready to go” protein for when the hunger hits. It’s a good test for “true” hunger. These days, if I’m feeling “snacky”, I have tuna, egg whites or turkey breast ready to go. If I DO eat it: I musta been hungry. If I look at it and think “I don’t want that”, then I’m not hungry: I’m just bored and want a treat. Hard boiled eggs are great for that too, since they can take longer to chew through.
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Yeah man I had my M&M moment on Saturday night
No more!
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Best part about hitting rock bottom: you can bounce hard! And there’s only one direction to go.
Started reading “Super Squats” last night. That’s SO dangerous, haha. Legit, reading that book will ALWAYS make you want to run the program. My wife asked how many times I’ve read that book and I said it was my third time. She was shocked to hear it was so infrequent, considering I’d read Powerlifting Basics at least once a year since 2008, but it’s because I know how easy Randall Strossen can get in my head.
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Good point
Surely you’ve had an M&M moment?
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Sweets were never my downfall, but oh yeah, I remember it exactly.
2009 or 2010, I had been trying to GFH for over a year. I ballooned up to 217lbs at my high point from a starting point of around 190lbs, and was putting away SO much food all the time, and very little of it quality. Fast food burgers (4 double cheeseburgers was standard, with 6 being my record), tacos by the “family share pack” size, family meals of chinese food, etc. Where I worked had a cafeteria that was effectively paying for cost of food: you could get a grilled cheese sandwich for a quarter.
I had a job where I would work on site for a 24 hour shift and then return home for 2 days. Young man’s game for sure. For lunch, I’d have 3 of those grilled cheese sandwiches with a bowl of broccoli (veggies: it’s healthy) with some ranch dressing. For dinner, 2 “simple life quesadillas”, which were these MONSTROUS concoctions of just chicken, WAY too much cheese and flour tortillas. I’d cover them with sour cream and eat them alongside 2 apples (see, fruit: it’s healthy!) And, of course, my wife would bake a batch of cookies or brownies for me to bring on shift each time I went out.
One night, I had finished plowing away my 2 quesadillas and apples right before it was my turn to take my sleep shift. I laid in the bed, rolled over onto my side…and felt miserable. It was like a few years of grease and butter had all gathered inside my guts all at once.
I asked myself “Why am I doing this to myself?” Before, I was trying to push my bodyweight as high as I could, but after starting this job, I actually dropped to 210lbs and was just holding steady there. I was sloppy, had a jiggly gut, and you could only tell I lifted if I wore a tank top.
That was the start of me dropping down BELOW my original starting weight of 190, and eventually competing as a 181 and setting some records in powerlifting.
Of course, years later, I had my blood lipid scare and went through yet ANOTHER transformation, but I find that’s honestly how this whole thing goes. We transform, we get complacent, an “M&M moment” happens, and we transform all over again.
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Wow man just reading that tells you why Mexico has a 75% obesity rate. The food is so good but creates the worst mass possible.
JA makes a very good point regarding doing all this work and completely fucking it up with your diet. It’s actually insane that people, myself included, do this.
I’ve got this stark image of M&Ms in my head now. A good visualisation tool to keep me on track now.
I feel like I can do this man. I really do.
How did you get your lipids back on track?
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You’ve absolutely got this dude!
A great quote I heard was “You can undo 60 minutes of training with 30 seconds of eating”. Really put things in perspective.
Total lifestyle overhaul, and Deep Water was a BIG part of that too. Actually reading/listening to Jon. I just went “yeah yeah, low carb high protein/fat, got it” and went to McDonalds and got 2 double quarter pounders and tossed the bread. I was taking in a LOT of unnecessary transfats and poor sources of saturated fats. Between Jon and John Meadows (something about Johns, because Dan John factors in here too), I learned the value of eating animal fats from animals that were fed their natural diet (grassfed beef/dairy, pasture raised poultry/eggs, etc). almost entirely eliminated fast food from my diet (discovered I was an addict along the way), and just started making better choices. The Mountain Dog diet was a great baseline alongside Deep Water, which is how I came up with that whole “Deep Mountain” thing during the transformation challenge. I also dropped 30lbs of bodyweight, which was taking things a BIT too far, and then re-added some quality mass.
Portion sizes and smart choices went a long way. Also, I cut cheese entirely out of my diet. I was abusing it, haha.
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