More Test than Deca Really Necessary? If the androgenic to anabolic ratio is greater with Deca (and other steroids) and we’re after the anabolic effects, why up the testosterone beyond the other steroid? It gets repeated all the time, but I’d like to know why? And is the “why” theoretical, anecdotal, or proven?
All anabolic steroids were designed with a anabolic:androgenic ratio higher than testosterone. There we’re looking to improve the anabolic benefits with less androgenic side effects.
Right. So my question is, “Why do people say you have to take higher mg of test than the steroid in any given cycle?” Why not just take enough testosterone to be healthy (say 150 mg/wk for example) and then take more of the more-anabolic substace (500 mg/wk of deca or whatever steroid you choose)?
It seems to be the current opinion that higher Deca than testosterone subjects you to a greater risk of ED.
My experience is that I when I ran Deca I took 200mg/wk of Deca and 200mg/wk of testosterone plus 20mg/day of an oral (Dianabol, Anavar, or Winstrol). That was the foundation of every cycle that I did. Sometimes I ran a different injectable anabolic than Deca, but Deca was my preferred injectable anabolic.
Thanks. If you did that frequently, I’m guessing it worked out well for you. I take 100 mg/wk Test for TRT. My test stays around 800 mg/dL and I don’t have ED issues. If I leave that where it is, I don’t understand how adding Deca (or anyting else) could cause an issue with ED. I understand that someone who doesn’t typically take Test would lkely experience ED if they jumped on Deca without taking test because their natrual production would shut down. Anyway, I just don’t get why the standard advice is to take more Test than Deca as opposed to simply taking enough Test to avoid ED (which could be much lower than the Deca dose).
BL Shaw laid out conventional thought above.
Anecdotally, I would imagine the reason people do it is because of a combination of recommendation and realized experience.
If you’re dead set on challenging the status quo, try loading up your nandrolone higher than test by multiples and let us know how it goes.
No it’s not required.
The biggest reason people say you have to have a certain ratio is because that worked for them. The ratio of test to nandrolone makes 0 difference. Of course there are always outliers that will have adverse effects but for the majority you want take the drugs to meet your goals. If that’s high deca and low test, give it a try.
As far as the Deca dick thing, @blshaw brings up a great point about DHT/DHN imbalance when using deca. This is the reason for DD. The solution for 99% of the people out there is to add a DHT like proviron when using deca. Of course there is always masteron and primo as well but proviron is IMOP the best solution while taking deca.
What is it that you are trying to do?
Everyone reacts a little different. But your questions beg the question: How many AAS cycles have you run?
My philosophy is to use the smallest amount to get significant results. I started with 10mg/day of Dianabol.
My first venture with Deca was a cycle of 100mg/wk of Deca stacked with 20mg/day of Anavar. I won two contests with this cycle that were two weeks apart. My point is to start with a low dose of any AAS. As you gain more muscle, it is then that you need to increase your AAS dosage to add even more muscle.
Thanks. I’m 46. Been on TRT for years but only ever used steroids beyond that once. I was cutting 8 years ago, I took a very low dose of Tren and dieted seriously and got ripped (from virgin to tren even low dose is crazy probably but I was terrified I’d lose too much muscle getting my bf down so low). I’ve always been strong (Over 1500 powerlifting total at around 200lbs when I was younger even though I didn’t compete). I’m around 225lbs now at 6’2". I’m still strong but I suppose that’s relative. I squat 405 for reps every third leg workout (have to avoid accumulating fatigue now). I bench somewhere between 365 lbs to 385 lbs at the moment (shoulder holding me back). I like powerbuilding where I start with a power lift and then back off to more bodybuilding style exercises after (namely lighter weight, slow into the deep stretch). I will transition into purely bodybuilding style workout in the next few years since I’m getting old. Anyway, that’s all to say that I’d like to get strong af one last time and put on some mass this Winter. Might be the last time I do that. My joints hold me back a little so I thought Deca might be a good choice. I do quite well with just a minimal TRT dose, eating well, and training intelligently. I’m thinking 250mg/wk test and 250mg/wk Deca might let me hit that old 405lb bench and put some mass on over 20 weeks without too much risk and then I’ll cruise back at my 125 mg/wk of test. I’ll have some arimidex on hand just in case. Just trying to keep it simple. Seems to be two relegions when it comes to low T vs High T cycles. I would have preferred to just leave my TRT dose of test where it is and take more deca since it’s more anabolic and less androgenic than test, but I would have liked to understand better where the High T group are coming from (beyond “worked for me”).
I haven’t had a chance to research those theories yet, but I appreciate you bringing them up. I’ll see what I can find. I guess I can always try the 250 test 250 deca and see if my dick still works and then up the test if I do run into that issue. I have a girlfriend who I have discussed the potential for deca dick with. If the rationale is all about deca dick, then I’m not too worried. I kept wondering if there’s more to it in terms of maximizing hypertrophy.
I do believe that is a safe venture back into AAS. You should notice significant strength increase.
The desire to settle what I believe is a myth concerning Deca. From my experiences it acted like most other AAS as to timing for noticing effective results. I’d like it if you played “guinea pig” and continued your 125mg/wk of testosterone and just added 200mg/wk of Deca to your TRT level of testosterone. Make note of how long it takes for you to notice a strength increase.
If you like, when you plateau on that stack, boost your testosterone to 250mg/wk while staying on Deca (until you decide to end the AAS cycle.)
No. The ratios are for concern over ED and sexual function. Otherwise the more nandrolone the better mass.
There’s no proven fact of what causes deca sides, mainly in terms of deca dick. Everyone has there own theory but that’s all it is - theory.
I used up to 600mg of deca for I think 16 weeks and kept my TRT dose and I felt just fine. I think I had a little prolactin issue which I handled with some caber. No deca dick. So there you go.
This is the part where I tell you that everyone is different and you’ll have to try and see for yourself.
This would be great for building mass. I would also add 25mg/day proviron. I will run that unless deca is over 300g/wk then I run 50mg/day.
Nothing wrong with this either.
I don’t think your going to get anybody to definitively tell you that test needs to be higher because…
I think people just learned/heard that it should be run this way and they hold it as gospel. They may think a higher test to deca ratio will prevent DD. They are mistaken.
At the end of the day you need to experiment with the drugs and see what works and what doesn’t. We are all a little different.
Personally this is what I would do:
125-150/ test
300/week deca
50mg/day proviron
50mg/day anadrol later in the cycle when your lifts stall. Maybe week 8/9 start and then run for 4-5 weeks.
Arimidex on hand
I would just try running some NPP here.
This way you can “Set” your TRT dose and play around with the NPP numbers.
Say 150 Test/100NPP for 2-3 weeks
Then 150 Test/150NPP for 2-3 weeks
…and so on and so forth.
You could do this indefinitely until blood work or side effects cause you to stop.
I’ll track it and post back on how it goes.
It will be interesting to see when you first feel the benefits of Deca.
Yeah, I’m curious too. I’m not taking an oral to kickstart or anything. I’m older and more patient these days so we’ll see. I suppose I should take some measurements too and then I can compare when I feel strength kick in vs hypertrophy.
Thanks. No reason for proviron for me, right since I’ve been on TRT for decades and have no natural function left to speak of. What about caber? Not really needed at these doses?