More Sets vs. More Exercises?

Hi Christian.

Why do you prefer more sets of one exercise rather then fewer sets of more exercises?

I believe, from what I have read and my own experience, that 1-2 heavy sets per exercise give the same benefits as more (4-5 sets in my own experience), so I would think that doing fewer sets and more exercises (recruiting more muscles and different movement patterns) would give better results then doing more sets of one particular exercise. That just what seems logical to me, so I was just wondering why you believe different.

Hope you have time to answer. Thanks for all the great information you put out :slight_smile:

From one of his posts:

  1. I am of the school of thought of using less movement pattern variation within a workout, but do more work for that pattern. So when I’m working chest (or more aptly pushing muscles) I like to keep the secondary movement (if I do one) the same as the primary one. I will vary intensity volume (e.g. sets of 5 after sets of 3), range of motion (e.g. partials after full lifts, or vice-versa) or training technique.

I knew that, I read that exactly post yesterday; what I am wondering is why he is in that ‘school of thought’

I’m guessing its because that the more movements you have per muscle group (or movement pattern), the more “confused” the nervous system gets.

Let’s take the bench press and its variants. If you want to get super strong on the bench press, but you’re doing 4-5 other movements that are similar in nature to the bench press, you’re basically asking your nervous system to do several things at once. Its like if you want to get good at guitar. You don’t also play flut, violin and piano. You focus solely on the guitar to get good at it.

I’m sure there’s more points to be made, but thats what I think.

Well, first of all it’s because I always trained this way.

When I started training, it was for football. The first two years (13-14 years of age) I basically trained on my own in the school’s gym. It wasn’t well equipped at all; it had a squat rack, a leg press machine, a universal machine (shoulder press, bench press, leg press, lat pulldown), leg extension, leg curl, a bench press and some dumbbells.

I didn’t know much back then, and nobody was designing programs (well the Phys.Ed teachers were, but only to kids 15 and above). There was no internet, no book that I could buy and I didn’t even know what muscle magazines were. So my source of info was pretty slim.

Most guys there where all doing chest and arms (big surprise) but I was a receiver and reasoned that all I needed were legs to run fast. So for those tho years I would basically do leg press, leg extension and leg curls… with some upper body stuff on the universal machine.

Once I turned 15 I joined a real gym. The trainers there were actually great coaches. One (the owner) was a former member of the Canadian national weightlifting team and the other one was the one who would become my mentor… Jean Boutet who trained a lot of pro hockey players, most of the town’s college football players and some olympic athletes. Jean was a big believer in the big basics and always emphasized doing a few things very well instead of a lot of things average.

He taught me my first important lesson, one that I continue using to this day: ‘If you can’t justify putting something in a program, don’t do it’.

He convinced me that no amount of 35lbs flies could ever stimulate more chest growth than a 300lbs+ bench press… that a leg extension could never rival a squat, that a leg curl could never beat a deadlift.

He once told me ‘If a leg extension is not as effective as the squat, if you want to do more volume why not simply add more squat… it’s the thing that works’.

For most of my formative years I followed that advice to a ‘T’. My workouts basically revolved around the squat, bench, deadlift, power clean, barbell row, military press and chin-up. Normally doing 3 of those per workouts, for lots of sets… most of the time I did 6 x 6.

When I stopped playing football I switched to olympic lifting. My workouts stayed on the same path. I was doing 3 or 4 movements per session. Always one variation of the clean, one of the snatch, a squat, pull or deadlift and a jerk or press. Again I rarely did less than 5 sets per exercise, sometimes doing as many as 15 sets of 2 reps.

It is only when I stopped olympic lifting and decided to get into bodybuilding that I started doing more isolation work. The reason was not so much that I believed that they were needed for growth, but rather because my extensive focus on the big lifts left me with some imbalances.

My biceps, although not small, were lagging behind my triceps. Mostly because I did a lot more pressing and holding at arms length than I did upper body pulling when I trained as an olympic lifter.

My chest was lagging behind my shoulders. That’s because of all the overhead work I did as an olympic lifter, and the avoidance of too much bench pressing (a tight chest makes it hard to reach proper overhead position in the jerk and snatch). So when I switched to bodybuilding, the bench press and variations didn’t lead to a great pectoral development simply because the shoulders were doing all the work.

My lats were lagging behind my traps, lower back and rhomboids… again, because those three muscles are used a lot more than the lats in the olympic lifts.

So I did have to use more isolation work to bring up lagging body parts. At that point I DID have a justification for using them. Simply put, my body was not efficient at recruiting those lagging muscles and the isolation work became more of a motor learning tool than an actual muscle-building tool.

Once that I corrected these weaknesses (well, still working on the lats one!) I no longer required a lot of exercise variation. My bicepsactually grew more from doing only one curling exercise (mostly straight-bar, steep angle preacher curl) but for plenty of sets and my chest began responding to doing a ton of bench pressing work.

Actually when I tried to include more variation ‘trying to hit the muscle from various angles’ I lost strength and size. Probably because the work on the less effective exercises necessited a reduction in volume on the most effective exercises (thus less stimulation) while causing more fatigue and increasing recovery requirements.

Neurally speaking it is also true that by doing more work on the same movement you become more efficient; thus increasing strength which leads to a larger overload of the muscles and eventually more mass.

I’m talking from experience here.

Doing tons of exercises is alluring. As I mentionned earlier, changing your body is an emotional thing. On one hand we want to improve so much that we want to believe that somewhere there exist THE ONE exercise that will give you the gains you dream of; and on the other side we’re afraid of missing out if we don’t hit the muscle from every angle possible.

YES different exercises will have a SLIGHTLY different effect on the muscle. But most of the time this is insignificant.

I’m not saying that doing tons of exercises doesn’t work… I’m just saying that most of the time it is unecessary and maybe even counterproductive if that means that you can’t get as much out of the most effective exercises.

Hey Thibs just an idea:

Wouldn’t it be better to increase volume of a particular muscle group by increasing the number of sets on an isolation exercise instead of doing more sets with a compound?

I would presume that if a muscle group needs more volume, adding the iso exercise can fatigue the target muscle while minimizing overall fatigue.

For example, after I do 2 work sets on the squat at my max weight, I still feel I could use a bit more work. By adding a set of reduced weight squats for max reps, I feel drained after, and at times may feel it lingering the next day, whereas if I do leg extensions, I can fatigue the quads without causing too much drainage.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks for a great answer :slight_smile:

[quote]forbes wrote:
Hey Thibs just an idea:

Wouldn’t it be better to increase volume of a particular muscle group by increasing the number of sets on an isolation exercise instead of doing more sets with a compound?

I would presume that if a muscle group needs more volume, adding the iso exercise can fatigue the target muscle while minimizing overall fatigue.

.

What are your thoughts on this?

[/quote]

Then why not do only isolation exercises on machines since these have the lowest CNS demand? Because it wont work, that’s why!

I just don’t find it logical to replace the best, most effective stuff with less effective one simply because it might cause less systemic fatigue.

If you autoregulate properly, the risk of systemic fatigue is slim to none, even when performing only compound movements.

Remember that the more exercises you use, the harder it is to autoregulate.

And while it is true that isolation work will cause less CNS fatigue than compound movements performed in the same rep style, they will also cause less overall growth and will not “train” the CNS as much.

I’m not saying not to do isolation work. But only to use it if it serves a specific purpose and that for that specific purpose the isolation movement represents the BEST OPTION.

If an exercise is not the best option to accomplish a specific goal, don’t do it. Stick with more of the best option.

First of all i would like to thank you for sharing all of your training experiences. Much appreciated!
At the age of 40 right now i’m trying to get back in shape (add muscles and lose fat) after a few years of no training at all.
I came up with the following routine:
Day 1: Squats + Romanian deadlift + calf raises
Day 3: Overhead press + Pullups/chinups + Bb triceps extensions
Day 5; Deadlifts + front squats + abs
day 7: Benchpress + rows + curls

It’s based on movements i always used a lot with good mass gains.
I took your advice on movements for the upper body; vertical/horizontal pushing and pulling.
For the first 2 exercises i would ramp up, the third exercise i would do some straight sets by instinct.
Can you "rate"my routine or give me some more advice for an older guy that wants to add muscle back and lose fat?

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:
Hey Thibs just an idea:

Wouldn’t it be better to increase volume of a particular muscle group by increasing the number of sets on an isolation exercise instead of doing more sets with a compound?

I would presume that if a muscle group needs more volume, adding the iso exercise can fatigue the target muscle while minimizing overall fatigue.

.

What are your thoughts on this?

[/quote]

Then why not do only isolation exercises on machines since these have the lowest CNS demand? Because it wont work, that’s why!

I just don’t find it logical to replace the best, most effective stuff with less effective one simply because it might cause less systemic fatigue.

If you autoregulate properly, the risk of systemic fatigue is slim to none, even when performing only compound movements.

Remember that the more exercises you use, the harder it is to autoregulate.

And while it is true that isolation work will cause less CNS fatigue than compound movements performed in the same rep style, they will also cause less overall growth and will not “train” the CNS as much.

I’m not saying not to do isolation work. But only to use it if it serves a specific purpose and that for that specific purpose the isolation movement represents the BEST OPTION.

If an exercise is not the best option to accomplish a specific goal, don’t do it. Stick with more of the best option.
[/quote]

This approach seems to be working great for me. I often go into the gym with 2 movements planned for each muscle group (ex. 3 reps sets of front squats, followed by 5 rep sets of bulgarian split squats) and I often continue with the main movement because it feels right (in the zone as you say). I ended up doing 12+ sets of squats the other day and that’s pretty much it. One of the bext workouts I’ve had in weeks! Yesterday it was just pullups and dips, and again a fantastic workout!

[quote]fredarn wrote:
Hi Christian.

Why do you prefer more sets of one exercise rather then fewer sets of more exercises?

I believe, from what I have read and my own experience, that 1-2 heavy sets per exercise give the same benefits as more (4-5 sets in my own experience), so I would think that doing fewer sets and more exercises (recruiting more muscles and different movement patterns) would give better results then doing more sets of one particular exercise. That just what seems logical to me, so I was just wondering why you believe different.

Hope you have time to answer. Thanks for all the great information you put out :-)[/quote]

CT ramps… Just in smaller increments than most bodybuilders normally do.

Even in a “low-volume” routine, you still usually ramp up to your working weight.

I don’t think there’s that much of a difference…

For DC, someone might do:

Bench
135x12
225x8
315x5
355x3
405x1
425x14RestPause (work set)

Someone following CT’s methods might work up in explosive triples to 460 and then drop down to 400 and rep out… Or whatever.

Thanks a lot, CT. I became interested in strength training this year during physical therapy after rotator cuff surgery, so I had no idea what I was doing and I was obviously very weak on one side of my body.

I still don’t know much, but I have come a long way in 2009, bringing my right shoulder and arm up to strength. Almost everything you’ve written in this forum has helped me immensely and this is another great post for a newbie like me. Thank you again.