More Drugs = More Muscle...

Pharma
21

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Regarding genetics, I think the whole “so and so has a great frame, full muscle bellies, and can pack on mass easy” is very overhyped. Guys like Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, and Markus Ruhl had pretty shitty shapes in many ways, yet still reached the top .1% or so of bodybuilding.[/quote]

have you seen the pictures of Jay in his teens? Those pics make a pretty strong case in favour of genetics.[/quote]

u do realize that the pros of today (and of yesterday) started using ALL kinds of gear in their very early years right? plus it wasn’t illegal back then, so pharma grade was much more common…

today we are lucky to get reasonably dosed gear from raws out of china… and most GH is fake[/quote]

what do you mean? steroids have been illegal since all the guys in the above started out. no pro today has been getting legal gear (i only mean the top O guys not some random arabs) at any point in their career. [/quote]

steroids were banned in 1990, at that time, jay cutler was 17, ronnie coleman was 26 IIRC… etc…

even though the ban passed in 1990, a large number of legitimate pharmacies still marketed their products in the US for a couple years… what happens when the government threatens to ban guns? gun sales skyrocket… im sure the same was true here with AAS

the passing of the ban didn’t wipe out all of the legitimate pharmacy grade gear overnight, im sure millions of units remained in circulation for many years in the 90’s and maybe even into the 21st century… and gradually reduced overtime (as they were consumed of course), leading us to where we are today getting 2nd rate products manufactured from chinese raws.

also, having connections is never a bad thing… there have been numerous cases of doctors illegitimately prescribing PED’s… doctors have bills to pay too ya know :wink:

22

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
Regarding genetics, I think the whole “so and so has a great frame, full muscle bellies, and can pack on mass easy” is very overhyped. Guys like Jay Cutler, Branch Warren, and Markus Ruhl had pretty shitty shapes in many ways, yet still reached the top .1% or so of bodybuilding.[/quote]

have you seen the pictures of Jay in his teens? Those pics make a pretty strong case in favour of genetics.[/quote]

u do realize that the pros of today (and of yesterday) started using ALL kinds of gear in their very early years right? plus it wasn’t illegal back then, so pharma grade was much more common…

today we are lucky to get reasonably dosed gear from raws out of china… and most GH is fake[/quote]

oh yeah I get that, and I’m not saying that the pro’s didn’t start using really early. I was just saying that there’s pictures of Jay when he’s 15 online looking like a beast. I doubt he’d touched a steroid by that point. Those pictures of Jay I think show that he had champion level genetics before he ever touched a drug.

I’m certainly not trying to downplay the importance of drugs, absolutely not, but I don’t think you’ll be a champion without champion level genetics, regardless of how much oil you’re pumping into your ass cheeks.

23

he’s a big boy, nothing SUPER impressive in my opinion

24

you’re a hard man to please Walkway :slight_smile:

25

The one thing i definatly get from this is… I nor 95% of anyone on this thread will be pro thank you for shitting on my dreams… i was perfectly fine with believing all these low dosage’s being preached would get me there.

26

Once I get to about 25 years old, I am just going batshit crazy on the drugs, just to see what my body is capable of. If it can handle itself, then I am putting my swole on and hoping for the best. Until then, medium(ish) dosages it is.

27

[quote]Murderphace wrote:
The one thing i definatly get from this is… I nor 95% of anyone on this thread will be pro thank you for shitting on my dreams… i was perfectly fine with believing all these low dosage’s being preached would get me there.[/quote]

Its not about shitting on dreams, its about being realistic.
I agree and IMO I think the pro’s are on stupidly high amounts of drugs which could/lead to severe problems later in life.

The whole nature of AAS gives you unrealistic dreams IMO, while on AAS you feel like a God thus you feel you can do anything hence why the usual juiced kid dreams of being a Pro, because the drugs aid his ambition by making him feel invincible. All just my opinion of course :).

SB

28

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Once I get to about 25 years old, I am just going batshit crazy on the drugs, just to see what my body is capable of. If it can handle itself, then I am putting my swole on and hoping for the best. Until then, medium(ish) dosages it is.[/quote]

sounds like a very foolish plan

29

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
The only real genetic trait that is important here, is their bodies abilities to deal with all the drugs and not perish…[/quote]

Just for comparative reference - those with non-pro genetics (ie. the vast majority) wouldn’t be able to even fall asleep on those levels of tren intake, and even test. So its not like one would be waiting around for bp readings/bloodwork to know that something’s off.

[quote]niksamaras wrote:
Once I get to about 25 years old, I am just going batshit crazy on the drugs, just to see what my body is capable of. If it can handle itself, then I am putting my swole on and hoping for the best. Until then, medium(ish) dosages it is.[/quote]

If that’s your takeaway from OP’s original post, just wow.

30

Done properly steroid use is more fun and safer than most other recreational drugs.

31

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Done properly steroid use is more fun and safer than most other recreational drugs.

[/quote]

But what about the hours you arn’t in the Gym.

32

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Done properly steroid use is more fun and safer than most other recreational drugs.

[/quote]

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
Wait so is Tren…I see your point. Touché

33

Fairly old news. Ever watch Bigger Stronger Faster? That movie is quite a few years old. buddy says on there most of the big guys are spending over $60,000 a year on gear

34

I would have to disagree with most of this. Yes you have to take a high level of different drugs but not all the pro’s are taking insane ammounts of AAS a week. I have seen alot of amature body builders who are top in the sport and are loading them selfs up with so much gear it looks like they are a bright red balloon about to pop but it still doesn’t change the fact they have ok genetics to begin with.

Week outer quad sweep not the right bone structure ect… And also I have seen guys who have the perfect mass building diets and work out schedules do a few big cycles and they never even gain enough mass to be noticeable. If you really have good enough genetics to compete you could turn pro only using up to 750 mgs of test a week a normal amount of primobolan, winstrol and maybe some masteron and hgh for a contest cycle.

And keeping all the dosages not to high. It really depends on your genetics and using smaller amounts of gear to reach your goals and gradually building it up. Over loading your androgen receptors to early in the game is only going to give you more health problems and make it so you have no way to keep growing except adding more gear.

That is why you see so many young body builders who go pro than vanish. If you look at what lee priest has said about his gear use and other pro bodybuilders you will see my statement is pretty true. Also blood pressure is not a sign of horrible health from a cycle its one of the most easiest controlled health problems out there and is expected when running any strong cycle.

Just get on some blood pressure medication when running a really big cycle. People who don’t have good genetics always want to believe it is more drugs they need but really its new genetics. You can put a pitbull by a poodle and say oh well if i give my poodle 500 mg’s a week of test its going to be as big as that pitbull but the true fact is they are the same species but have completely different bone structures and genetics.

And basically most normal people are poodles trying to turn themselfs into pitbulls. The only thing I do agree with in this thread is pro’s being pro’s because they can handle the negative side effects of all the drugs that is true. Also though alot of these guys are eating the best food money can buy 24/7 and they have drugs that are dosed right not shit off the internet or from random black market sellers.

And alot of them just buy powder and make it them selfs. You ask how do i know all this well because if you talk to anyone who knows the top ammatures or pro’s most of them will tell you this. But if you don’t believe me load up on all the shitty underdosed internet steroids you can and get ready to compete in the mr olympia ha ha ha ha ha.

You will still be a Volkswagen bug with the biggest engine money can buy competing against exotic European two hundred thousand dollar sports cars no ammount of money can change that you are a Volkswagen to begin with. The truth hurts but not as bad as kidney dialisis from to many A-bombs in hopes of looking like Markus rhule or jay cuttler.

35

One of the most thought provoking/interesting threads i’ve read in a while.

36

@mad scientist

I think the genetics argument is only true in as far as your muscle insertions and bone structure. Beyond that, its a big wank and more drugs will build more muscle.

Why did we see such a leap in the size of pros when insulin and HGH use started becoming widespread? Before that guys like Arnold and Ferringo were as big as you were going to get ever. And even then, I wouldn’t say arnold had fantastic genetics, there are some areas of his physique that have always been sorely lacking, like his midsection. Personally I always thought Olivia had the much better physique, Arnold was just a much better showman and competitor.

Although I have to say I think the OP article exaggerates a bit. Why would guys pass out from walking a flight of stairs yet be able to complete multiple sets of 10-20 reps of squats with ridiculous weights??

Certainly I don’t think anyone would argue the pros are healthy in any sense of the word, but its also a moot point in that I think its widely acknowledged that getting to that level of the game requires a certain disregard for your long term health. If thats their choice and how they want to live their life, who is anyone to demonize them for that? Not everyone wants to live to nursing home age.

37

I honestly don’t think the pro’s are as unhealthy as we are led to believe. Look at dexter jackson he’s healthy. And still winning competitions. Also lets say the bone structure is the frame of the high end sports car and the engine is the androgen receptors. If you put racing fuel in a Volkswagen it’s not going to use the racing fuel like a Ferrari would. Some guys are twice as sensitive to the positive effects of steroids than others. Those are the pro’s look at how big ronnie coleman got the minute he started juicing same with kevin levrone. They both had different methods ronnie was natural forever kevin only did pre contest cycles for like 4 months out of the year.

And also if you have two guys with the same bone structure and muscle inserts a gram of testosterone will still not be absorbed at a equal rate by the androgen receptors. Lol I have a theory that if we found a way to hyper sensitize our androgen receptors we wouldn’t even need steroids and wouldn’t have horrible side effects from the testosterone we naturally produce. It’s a smarter way to increase size the science just isn’t advanced enough to do it. But I know its possible.

I imagine some sort of molecule would have to be binding to the testosterone in our body that would some how signal our androgen receptors to some how process it in a different way or maybe like i said just hyper sensitize our androgen receptors. I believe the real difference between genetically supperior pro’s is in how theyre androgen receptors process testosterone and its derivatives. Imagine if every cycle was as potent as your first one.

My testosterone is not high at all but yet I am making insane gains naturally even after juicing. That is what made me come to this conclusion because it all just didn’t make sense to me why I had all the symptoms of high testosterone but on the charts it was on the low side. Its because my body adapted and my androgen receptors are more sensitive. I think being sensitive to estrogen also has a big role in gaining muscle more so than people think. It’s not the evil hormone we all make it out to be. It can help protect joints and increase strength and keep your bone density high.

Bottom line some guys are lucky and dont have to take a lot of juice other guys have to juice theyre brains out and pay the price. Either way will work just one way will work for decades and the other way will work for like 7 years before you have a heart attack or organ failure. If you talk to people who work with the pro’s alot of the pros are held back by side effects that other pro’s dont have like horrible acne or they just need to much gear to grow and go crazy on orals because thats the only way for them to be as big as the others.

Lee haney said he created a body to compete with the guys of his generation he wouldnt have beat dorian yates a second time he even hinted at that. And people created a body to compete with dorian yates and than they created a body to compete with ronnie. I know hgh and insulin have a role but I wish they tested for insulin its so fucking dangerous and it ruins physiques alot of times.

38

I also just read today dorian yates said that he felt insulin doesnt help with muscle growth it just makes the muscles look bigger by storing glycogen and water retention. And that it’s making it harder for todays pro’s to get that grainy look they use to have in the 90’s. Personally I would go for the grainy look over the big bloated look if I was a judge.

39

Well walkway, Ive had it out with you on this site and I must say, this is a rather intelligently put together thesis. 5 stars. I don’t have a problem with the pros that giving incorrect dosages could protect gung-ho young inspiring AAS users from going ballistic with the sheer amount of drugs they assume they need. Naivete on the internet runs rampant with people wanting overnight Olympian physiques without a clear-cut understanding all aspects of the bodybuilding dynamic. I have to wonder, since we all know that drugs use in the upper tier circuits is massive. Everyone has access to the same PEDs, same regimes, similar diets and training protocols, why do some pro dominate hands down while others struggle to make top 10? Is it safe to assume that everyone has different potential than every other person?

40

Mad-scientist,
I dont see where you drew the conclusion that Dexter Jackson is healthy? He may look healthy physically (I dont know how far that is true when at sub-6% BF levels) but what about his heart? His coronary arteries? Left ventricular wall thickness? Liver function? Kidney function? Reproductive system?

Recently I was reading an article on Branch Warren and his wife was explaining how glad they are to have finally had a child after years of trying, now I cannot say for sure but I believe his infertility would be due to his drug-use.
Arnold has had a triple-bypass if I remember correctly.

SavagedNatiion, you make a fair point. The fact that the same drugs are available to everyone yet there has only been ~9? men in the whole world to ever win the Mr Olympia tells us there is obviously variation amongst individuals.
That being said however, it is without a doubt that MORE drugs = MORE muscle.

SB