MMA Training Hub

Training
300

BJJ (Gi)
Time: 90 min.
Notes: Worked a lot of stuff from guard today. Learned how to set up a Gogoplata. Man, that thing is a bastard to pull off if you don’t have the flexibility. Also learned some cool Gi chokes that I hadn’t seen before.

Rolled for 30 min. I was the only white belt in class, but just as in Tuesday’s class, I held my own. I was able to pass guard several times and improve my position. Also was able to posture up out of submission attempts. Got caught in a triangle towards the end of class, but otherwise, did well and received good remarks from my training partners.

Happily taking tomorrow off to rest. I’ll probably spend some time tomorrow coming up with a new lifting template for the next 4 weeks, just to keep things fresh.

301

i was reading through this and while i have no idea if you guys are planning to actually fight since this is a mma thread i was wondering why so much strength work. I think that you do need strength up to a certain point but once you reach a decent level of weight strength is no longer really becomes a factor. I’d say snatches and cleans are the exceptions but dont get obsessed with numbers. Strength is great but it doesnt matter if your tired one minute in.

Also amateur MMA fights weigh-in the morning of the fight just like bjj.

302

[quote]EG wrote:
i was reading through this and while i have no idea if you guys are planning to actually fight since this is a mma thread i was wondering why so much strength work. I think that you do need strength up to a certain point but once you reach a decent level of weight strength is no longer really becomes a factor. I’d say snatches and cleans are the exceptions but dont get obsessed with numbers. Strength is great but it doesnt matter if your tired one minute in.

Also amateur MMA fights weigh-in the morning of the fight just like bjj.[/quote]

I don’t think 2 days of strength training is excessive…just enough to keep a baseline. I also don’t agree that once you reach a certain point that strength is no longer a factor. Strength is always a factor. It may not be the most dominant factor in a fight, but it almost always certainly plays a role.

Hmm, didn’t know that about amateur MMA fights. I’ll have to keep that in mind.

304

[quote]Djwlfpack wrote:
EG wrote:
i was reading through this and while i have no idea if you guys are planning to actually fight since this is a mma thread i was wondering why so much strength work. I think that you do need strength up to a certain point but once you reach a decent level of weight strength is no longer really becomes a factor. I’d say snatches and cleans are the exceptions but dont get obsessed with numbers. Strength is great but it doesnt matter if your tired one minute in.

Also amateur MMA fights weigh-in the morning of the fight just like bjj.

I don’t think 2 days of strength training is excessive…just enough to keep a baseline. I also don’t agree that once you reach a certain point that strength is no longer a factor. Strength is always a factor. It may not be the most dominant factor in a fight, but it almost always certainly plays a role.

Hmm, didn’t know that about amateur MMA fights. I’ll have to keep that in mind.[/quote]

I have been thinking about what is the simpliest way to describe what I am trying to say with respect to strength training and mma, but I think an example would be better. John Fitch…I assume you are familair with him. One of the strongest 170 pound fighters in the UFC by far, and not overly muscular. Lets keep him in mind given you want to be/are a MMA fighter.

I understand wanting to be strong for fighting. I understand wanting to look strong for self esteem(with respect to fighting), and I understand wanting to look good just to look good at the same time.

I think your work out and plans(I just glanced over btw) will certainly not lead you to what you are looking for. If your goal is mma, and you are not strong to begin with…

I thought about going into depth into explaining myself, but I don’t think I can do the topic justice of how bad of a plan of low rep strength training would be if you are seriously training mma.

My best suggestion is to look at what the successfull mma fighters of today do with respect to weight trainging. You will find out that even the “jacked” mma fighters dont’ train like that ie Kevin “The Monster” Randleman. Btw I am not saying he is great, but only talking about his size and weight training methods.

I suggest following workouts of people such as couture, tito, FITCH, gsp, and hughes. They all there works are based around the same fundamentals. There maybe some variance in how they acheive their results but not much. Search the internet or their sites for their workouts.

I know of no successfull mma fighter is doing low rep workouts. Considering the fatigue and soreness do to sparring, wrestling, bjj, muay thai, etc… If strength is a must do not forget it can be obtained by more than low rep heavy weight workouts.

Last note…with respect to types of martial arts…how much you can bench press, curl, power clean, squat is a bad measurement of how strength with convert into “MMA strength”

With that being said goodluck…MMA is still evolving and probably not too late to change your workout.

305

Thought id contribute to this thread,

Kyokushin A.M., breifly did some pattern based work (stuff i dispise) but we quickly got down to sparring, working in body shot combinations and using thigh kicks at close range. Sparring which made up most of the session, resulted in bloody knuckles and sore shins.

Submission Grappling P.M. Session started off well with good warm-up drills, coach has taken my advice on warm-ups. Consisted of clinching slipping to the back for suplex variations and trips. Ground work consisted of ankle hooking inside the opponents closed guard and guard passing drills. Sparring was good, scored some awesome leg hook take downs. And rubber guard is really coming along nicely, scored some good jiuclaw/omoplata submissions.

306

Thanks for the advice guys. As I mentioned before I have a decent wrestling background so I am familiar with the principle of cutting weight prior to a tournament. And I have to say I dont miss the days of sitting in the sauna the night before to drop that xtra five pounds. Also I walk around at approx 185. Right now that I am fairly weak for my weight strength wise due to the fact that I have recently come off of an injury. So I will start my training as recommended by you and just get into the routine and worry bout body comp later. Thanks for the advice folks. Also with WSB4SB it really only recommended 3 days of lifting a week. Would it be bad for me to throw and extra one or two in there if I keep it mild? never used the program so just wondering what you thought…Thanks

307

[quote]Jhuczko wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
EG wrote:
i was reading through this and while i have no idea if you guys are planning to actually fight since this is a mma thread i was wondering why so much strength work. I think that you do need strength up to a certain point but once you reach a decent level of weight strength is no longer really becomes a factor. I’d say snatches and cleans are the exceptions but dont get obsessed with numbers. Strength is great but it doesnt matter if your tired one minute in.

Also amateur MMA fights weigh-in the morning of the fight just like bjj.

I don’t think 2 days of strength training is excessive…just enough to keep a baseline. I also don’t agree that once you reach a certain point that strength is no longer a factor. Strength is always a factor. It may not be the most dominant factor in a fight, but it almost always certainly plays a role.

Hmm, didn’t know that about amateur MMA fights. I’ll have to keep that in mind.

I have been thinking about what is the simpliest way to describe what I am trying to say with respect to strength training and mma, but I think an example would be better. John Fitch…I assume you are familair with him. One of the strongest 170 pound fighters in the UFC by far, and not overly muscular. Lets keep him in mind given you want to be/are a MMA fighter.

I understand wanting to be strong for fighting. I understand wanting to look strong for self esteem(with respect to fighting), and I understand wanting to look good just to look good at the same time.

I think your work out and plans(I just glanced over btw) will certainly not lead you to what you are looking for. If your goal is mma, and you are not strong to begin with…

I thought about going into depth into explaining myself, but I don’t think I can do the topic justice of how bad of a plan of low rep strength training would be if you are seriously training mma.

My best suggestion is to look at what the successfull mma fighters of today do with respect to weight trainging. You will find out that even the “jacked” mma fighters dont’ train like that ie Kevin “The Monster” Randleman. Btw I am not saying he is great, but only talking about his size and weight training methods.

I suggest following workouts of people such as couture, tito, FITCH, gsp, and hughes. They all there works are based around the same fundamentals. There maybe some variance in how they acheive their results but not much. Search the internet or their sites for their workouts.

I know of no successfull mma fighter is doing low rep workouts. Considering the fatigue and soreness do to sparring, wrestling, bjj, muay thai, etc… If strength is a must do not forget it can be obtained by more than low rep heavy weight workouts.

Last note…with respect to types of martial arts…how much you can bench press, curl, power clean, squat is a bad measurement of how strength with convert into “MMA strength”

With that being said goodluck…MMA is still evolving and probably not too late to change your workout.[/quote]

I would not say that low rep high weight/speed training is anything but helpful if done in the right volume. All the cardio in the world isn’t worth shit if you only have enough power to love tap. I’ve fought tons of guys with great endurance that couldn’t make a throw or takedown because they were weak as shit.

The thing is you have to have the right amount of both explosive power and sport specific endurance. Doing anything in the weight room for endurance won’t help your MMA. Doing staggered rounds of sparring and drilling will boost your fight endurance and lactic acid recovery.

I would say that o-lifting and other speed power lifts are one of the things that many fighters are lacking.

‘Good’ fighters need both SS endurance and explosive maximal strength. These are only attribute qualities. A technical base is also very necessary. But even the most technical player who is weak will lose a position to a strong newb that doesn’t know shit.

-chris

309

avocado i couldn’t disagree more i would rather have the most technically proficient fighter who was weak over an elite-weightlifter fighter who was a novice in technique

I would suggest looking at some of the Gracie BJJ videos where some of the very old and even blind fighters dominate

310

BJJ (Friday)
No Gi
90 mins

Sweeps from guard, some submission work modifed for MMA. Rolled with two blue belts, a brown and a black. Was able to avoid submissions for the most part and submitted both the blue belts.
Everyone was slightly lazy (it was a Friday) so we were reluctantly run through a pretty tough sprint/crab walk/piggy-back/standing mount circut.

Strength
(Saturday)
120 mins

Squats
165x8x2 sets
225x5
270x4
315x3x2 sets
360x3x6 sets

Bench Press
145x5
170x4
200x3x2 sets
230x3x5 sets

Barbell French Press
90x8x5 sets

One Armed Tate Press
40x10x3

311

[quote]EG wrote:
avocado i couldn’t disagree more i would rather have the most technically proficient fighter who was weak over an elite-weightlifter fighter who was a novice in technique

I would suggest looking at some of the Gracie BJJ videos where some of the very old and even blind fighters dominate[/quote]

And when you’re done with the Gracie in Action videos, go ahead and pick yourself up a copy of the “Gracie Way” by Kid Pelligro.

Rickson by armbar

312

[quote]Jhuczko wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
EG wrote:
i was reading through this and while i have no idea if you guys are planning to actually fight since this is a mma thread i was wondering why so much strength work. I think that you do need strength up to a certain point but once you reach a decent level of weight strength is no longer really becomes a factor. I’d say snatches and cleans are the exceptions but dont get obsessed with numbers. Strength is great but it doesnt matter if your tired one minute in.

Also amateur MMA fights weigh-in the morning of the fight just like bjj.

I don’t think 2 days of strength training is excessive…just enough to keep a baseline. I also don’t agree that once you reach a certain point that strength is no longer a factor. Strength is always a factor. It may not be the most dominant factor in a fight, but it almost always certainly plays a role.

Hmm, didn’t know that about amateur MMA fights. I’ll have to keep that in mind.

I have been thinking about what is the simpliest way to describe what I am trying to say with respect to strength training and mma, but I think an example would be better. John Fitch…I assume you are familair with him. One of the strongest 170 pound fighters in the UFC by far, and not overly muscular. Lets keep him in mind given you want to be/are a MMA fighter.

I understand wanting to be strong for fighting. I understand wanting to look strong for self esteem(with respect to fighting), and I understand wanting to look good just to look good at the same time.

I think your work out and plans(I just glanced over btw) will certainly not lead you to what you are looking for. If your goal is mma, and you are not strong to begin with…

I thought about going into depth into explaining myself, but I don’t think I can do the topic justice of how bad of a plan of low rep strength training would be if you are seriously training mma.

My best suggestion is to look at what the successfull mma fighters of today do with respect to weight trainging. You will find out that even the “jacked” mma fighters dont’ train like that ie Kevin “The Monster” Randleman. Btw I am not saying he is great, but only talking about his size and weight training methods.

I suggest following workouts of people such as couture, tito, FITCH, gsp, and hughes. They all there works are based around the same fundamentals. There maybe some variance in how they acheive their results but not much. Search the internet or their sites for their workouts.

I know of no successfull mma fighter is doing low rep workouts. Considering the fatigue and soreness do to sparring, wrestling, bjj, muay thai, etc… If strength is a must do not forget it can be obtained by more than low rep heavy weight workouts.

Last note…with respect to types of martial arts…how much you can bench press, curl, power clean, squat is a bad measurement of how strength with convert into “MMA strength”

With that being said goodluck…MMA is still evolving and probably not too late to change your workout.[/quote]

Oh great, this dude’s here to impart his wonderful knowledge upon us. Thanks for that last note about numbers being a bad measurement for mma success, we were all comparing our bench presses in an effort to determine who was the most badass here.

313

I agree I think that whenever someone is trying to argue a point and win people over to their way of thinking it is allways the most important to be as patronistic as possible.

BTW do you have any facts or evidence to support your claims other what you see GSP, Hughes, etc do on tv?

314

quick question. Reading through the Waterbury training method…first off anyone using it right now? Anyone had any success with it? also when it references A1 A2 and so on, is that meaning supersets? Just wondering.

315

[quote]P84 wrote:
quick question. Reading through the Waterbury training method…first off anyone using it right now? Anyone had any success with it? also when it references A1 A2 and so on, is that meaning supersets? Just wondering.[/quote]

Are you talking about the Hammer Strength program? If so, then yes, I did use the program about a year ago. I thought it was a good program. A1 and A2 are done as alternating sets…

A1, rest 60 sec (or whatever it says rest period should be), then…A2, rest 60 sec, then back to A1.

Follow that until all sets are completed.

316

Yeah, if that guy is basing his assessment of how fighters train based off what he sees on “UFC All-Access” then he doesn’t really know how any fighter truly trains for a fight.

I know Couture uses a bunch of Olympic lifts in his routine, but as for the others, I really have no idea what they are doing in the weight room, so I won’t speculate.

I still think it’s naive to say that low-rep strength training won’t help someone in their training for a fight/tournament. Why would I not want to improve my strength? If I lifted for more reps, then I’d be doing more hypertrophy or endurance-type work, which is not the goal of those sessions. I do endurance work separately. The weight workouts are done to make me stronger, which defniitely has a direct carryover into class.

I’m pretty certain that if I were to drop lifting from my schedule, I’d have a much harder time pushing 250-pound guys off of me. One of the comments I routinely get from guys I roll with is that they are surprised by my strength, since I’m right around 180-185 pounds and typically give up 40-plus pounds to a lot of guys I roll with. I know that’s directly attributed to my time in the weight room. Take that away and I have no chance against those guys.

317

Lifting AM

Close grip bench with 14kg chains 60kg+ x5,80kg x3,100kg x3,110kg x3,115kg x3, 120kg x3 125kgx3 130kg x2

3 sets pf dips 2 mins rest near failure

superset neutral grip pull ups and face pulls
4 sets of 8-12 reps

40kg barbell curls for 3 sets of 6-10

Hanging leg raises, crunches, med ball swings done in circuit fashion

Submission grappling PM, largely technical session focusing on, breaking grips in the clinch and some sprawl work, no sparring today!

318

In training for a fight/tournament your strength increasing would be great but that isn’t what really matter. Hypertrophy does not mean improved performance. I agree that strength does have a carryover in the weightroom but i rather have rotational strength rather than being able to bench press a truck. I’m not bashing weightlifting, it is a means to an end but you need to use it as tool in your toolbox. strength-endurance is far more important than maximal strength. How are you going to use that strength when you are to tired to move and your opponent isn’t even tired. As far as my experience as a fighter goes most people i know use high reps high intesinty in the weight room as a means of improving conditioning. Also in a fight you will not be giving up 40+ pounds that is why they have weight classes. And in defense of the heavy weights Fedor gave up about 90 pounds in last fight against Hong Man Choi and won by armbar from the gaurd

319

[quote]EG wrote:
In training for a fight/tournament your strength increasing would be great but that isn’t what really matter. Hypertrophy does not mean improved performance. I agree that strength does have a carryover in the weightroom but i rather have rotational strength rather than being able to bench press a truck. I’m not bashing weightlifting, it is a means to an end but you need to use it as tool in your toolbox. strength-endurance is far more important than maximal strength. How are you going to use that strength when you are to tired to move and your opponent isn’t even tired. As far as my experience as a fighter goes most people i know use high reps high intesinty in the weight room as a means of improving conditioning. Also in a fight you will not be giving up 40+ pounds that is why they have weight classes. And in defense of the heavy weights Fedor gave up about 90 pounds in last fight against Hong Man Choi and won by armbar from the gaurd[/quote]

Right, just as endurance is a tool in your toolbox. If you’re doing more than 2 classes a week, there’s really no need to do excessive amounts of endurance training outside of class, as that should provide you with all the endurance training you’ll need.

For me, lifting is also a nice break from that endurance training. If I did 3-4 classes a week and then did 3-4 endurance workouts on top of that a week, I’d be fried.

322

[quote]Djwlfpack wrote:
EG wrote:
In training for a fight/tournament your strength increasing would be great but that isn’t what really matter. Hypertrophy does not mean improved performance. I agree that strength does have a carryover in the weightroom but i rather have rotational strength rather than being able to bench press a truck. I’m not bashing weightlifting, it is a means to an end but you need to use it as tool in your toolbox. strength-endurance is far more important than maximal strength. How are you going to use that strength when you are to tired to move and your opponent isn’t even tired. As far as my experience as a fighter goes most people i know use high reps high intesinty in the weight room as a means of improving conditioning. Also in a fight you will not be giving up 40+ pounds that is why they have weight classes. And in defense of the heavy weights Fedor gave up about 90 pounds in last fight against Hong Man Choi and won by armbar from the gaurd

Right, just as endurance is a tool in your toolbox. If you’re doing more than 2 classes a week, there’s really no need to do excessive amounts of endurance training outside of class, as that should provide you with all the endurance training you’ll need.

For me, lifting is also a nice break from that endurance training. If I did 3-4 classes a week and then did 3-4 endurance workouts on top of that a week, I’d be fried.[/quote]

It just depends on your goals i guess, if your not actually fighting then i see your point there is no need to put yourself through all of the endurance training when all your going to need in the real world is a few seconds of knocking someone out if someone tries to mess with you on the streets

323

I also think it’s silly to keep your eyes focused on how elite fighters are training “now”.

The fighters mentioned have undoubtedly weight trained on lop-rep-traditional programs in their specific areas before their convergence to MMA. It’s silly to think that Couture, GSP, Fitch or any other strong wrestler has not participated in these types of programs during their wrestling days. Likewise, those were probably the days when the fighters developed most of their base strength to begin with.

If you are unhappy with your current strength level, you have your options. If you are unhappy with your current muscular endurance, you have your options. It does not have to be black and white.

On numbers, I can’t possibly see how, all things being equal, benching or squatting 100 pounds more then your opponent can be hurtful.

Human beings are not worker ants. We do not have to specialize while ignoring other aspects. Strength, muscular endurance and technique are not mutually exclusive events.

Edit: I feel like I am in a time warp. What’s with all this functional strength psycho-babble?