Something I haven’t seen anyone talk about in my admittedly haphazard skimming: Complex Training, i.e. supersetting low rep compound lifts with plyometrics.
Now that i’ve reached my fight weight (fight is on 02/16), I’ve been doing this for my strength/explosiveness day:
1A) Leg raise off bench (aka Dragonfly) 2 x max
1B) Russian twist: 2 x 12 each side
1C) Swiss ball crunch with dumbbell overhead: 2 x 20-30
2A)Squats: ususally around 225: 4 x 5
2B)Jumping toe touches (side or front): 4 x 10
3A)Bench press: 195-215: 4 x 5
3B)various forms of plyometric pushups: 4 x 10
4A)Deadlift: ususally 275: 4 x 5
4B) Backwards med-ball throw: 4 x 6-10 (depending on weight of ball)
A couple sets of dips and chins, then I’m done. High neural adaptive response, low total drain on me metabolically. My kicks and punches are noticably improved. I wouldn’t recommend this but for brief periods, usually pre-contest prep. 4-6 weeks total duration.
Now that I’m down to the wire, I don’t do much other lifting. Mostly just skills, drills, sparring, and stamina work. Some intervals here and there too. Those are usually 8 x 400(1 lap), or 4 x 800.
[quote]EG wrote:
avocado i couldn’t disagree more i would rather have the most technically proficient fighter who was weak over an elite-weightlifter fighter who was a novice in technique
I would suggest looking at some of the Gracie BJJ videos where some of the very old and even blind fighters dominate[/quote]
I’m as big a fan as anyone of the gracies but…
When I look at GIA videos I see the gracies, who know how to fight, beating up some bums who have no idea what so ever. And most of the gracies are in tragic shape especially when it comes to being strong. But lets look at how the gracies fair in modern day against real athletes who are strong. royce basically just sits there against hughes, and I hate hughes. At a seminar I went to royce himself admits to not being very strong and how it helps in timed fights to be strong. And I’m talking about explosive hip power here not bench press. IMO Bench has next to 0 athletic carryover in MMA or most other sports besides football (american).
So yeah id take a weak guy that had any technique over a homeless dude who doesn’t even know how to throw a punch. But all technique being equal the stronger more conditioned fighter will win in most cases. And I have found that more athletic fighters are hard to fight despite not being very technical whereas technical fighters who are smaller have a statistically harder time maintaining top positions.
all I am saying is that a true MMA player has only a few hours a week to devote to the weight room. I would say that his time there is better spent improving his explosive hip strength instead of his endurance. I say this because his sport specific endurance can be more readily built during his hours of striking and grappling training. What makes endurance work in the weightroom any better than endurance work on the mat? I must know your ancient secrets. That being said if you can’t keep up on the mat then I would probably say that some energy system work is in order. But once you can keep up on the mat then use your mat time as energy system time.
[quote]EG wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
EG wrote:
In training for a fight/tournament your strength increasing would be great but that isn’t what really matter. Hypertrophy does not mean improved performance. I agree that strength does have a carryover in the weightroom but i rather have rotational strength rather than being able to bench press a truck. I’m not bashing weightlifting, it is a means to an end but you need to use it as tool in your toolbox. strength-endurance is far more important than maximal strength. How are you going to use that strength when you are to tired to move and your opponent isn’t even tired. As far as my experience as a fighter goes most people i know use high reps high intesinty in the weight room as a means of improving conditioning. Also in a fight you will not be giving up 40+ pounds that is why they have weight classes. And in defense of the heavy weights Fedor gave up about 90 pounds in last fight against Hong Man Choi and won by armbar from the gaurd
Right, just as endurance is a tool in your toolbox. If you’re doing more than 2 classes a week, there’s really no need to do excessive amounts of endurance training outside of class, as that should provide you with all the endurance training you’ll need.
For me, lifting is also a nice break from that endurance training. If I did 3-4 classes a week and then did 3-4 endurance workouts on top of that a week, I’d be fried.
It just depends on your goals i guess, if your not actually fighting then i see your point there is no need to put yourself through all of the endurance training when all your going to need in the real world is a few seconds of knocking someone out if someone tries to mess with you on the streets
[/quote]
“the streets” is a much different situation. No amount of MMA training will make you good against a guy with a knife who is behind you.
If you’re fighting in a ring/cage then all you need is 15 minutes of endurance, max. You can choose be weak or strong in that 15 mins. Being able to run a marathon after that fight is fruitless.
“the streets” is a much different situation. No amount of MMA training will make you good against a guy with a knife who is behind you.
If you’re fighting in a ring/cage then all you need is 15 minutes of endurance, max. You can choose be weak or strong in that 15 mins. Being able to run a marathon after that fight is fruitless.
-chris[/quote]
The only martial are that works against a knife is the martial art of gun fighting. If the other guy has a gun then the counter is to have a bigger gun and having friends bring theirs too. Barring that car v gun is a decent match up.
If you’re fighting in a ring/cage then all you need is 15 minutes of endurance, max. You can choose be weak or strong in that 15 mins. Being able to run a marathon after that fight is fruitless.
-chris[/quote]
That 15 minutes it a max effort high intensity sprint not a marathon. BJJ/muay thai three times a week will not get you ready for a 15 minute fight.
If you’re fighting in a ring/cage then all you need is 15 minutes of endurance, max. You can choose be weak or strong in that 15 mins. Being able to run a marathon after that fight is fruitless.
-chris
That 15 minutes it a max effort high intensity sprint not a marathon. BJJ/muay thai three times a week will not get you ready for a 15 minute fight.
[/quote]
That’s right. 3 BJJ/MT sessions per week wont get you ready for a baby shower. But here we are talking about someone who is actually fighting consistently in MMA productions. A competitive fighter is surely training more than 7 times per week. Essentially it’s a job.
Several of those sessions are likely thai pad and gas drilling sessions. That volume and intensity of training will get you ready for 3 5 minute rounds. Your auxiliary time in the weight room is likely not best spent rehashing more fatiguing work.
“the streets” is a much different situation. No amount of MMA training will make you good against a guy with a knife who is behind you.
If you’re fighting in a ring/cage then all you need is 15 minutes of endurance, max. You can choose be weak or strong in that 15 mins. Being able to run a marathon after that fight is fruitless.
-chris
The only martial are that works against a knife is the martial art of gun fighting. If the other guy has a gun then the counter is to have a bigger gun and having friends bring theirs too. Barring that car v gun is a decent match up.
I have another question. What’s everyone’s strategy regarding training and illness?
When I’m sick, I tend to stay away from the gym, especially my MMA gym. The last thing I want to do is spread my germs to other people. I hate when you roll with someone and they mention ‘I’m just getting over this chest cold.’ You’re like, great, thanks for sweating the germs onto me.
As far as lifting/endurance work, I’ll do it as long as I don’t have an infection. If it’s just seasonal allergies or a mild head cold, then I’ll try and train through it. Otherwise, I rest and recover.
That’s why I haven’t been in the gym the past 2 days. I have a gnarly cold so I’m staying home, letting my body heal up. I’m already feeling better, so I think I’ll only be out one more day.
Generally my rest is depedant on the illness, but ive rolled with people who’ve been sick, recently with someone who had’nt quite gotten over the fly, 3 other people at the club including me caught the same bug.
If ive got a cold/sore throat/feeling groggy ill generally stay away from MMA training, i might go to the gym do some dynamic warmups and see how i feel from there.
In the back of my mind is “dont be a jerk and soread it too other people, just because your suffering training withdrawl”
[quote]Wayland wrote:
Generally my rest is depedant on the illness, but ive rolled with people who’ve been sick, recently with someone who had’nt quite gotten over the fly, 3 other people at the club including me caught the same bug.
If ive got a cold/sore throat/feeling groggy ill generally stay away from MMA training, i might go to the gym do some dynamic warmups and see how i feel from there.
In the back of my mind is “dont be a jerk and soread it too other people, just because your suffering training withdrawl”[/quote]
Exactly. MMA gyms are definitely a breeding ground for germs. Guys come in still sick and train and then sure enough, several other guys are laid up.
My MMA gym is 25 miles of hard traffic away and the classes are not at a good time for a family man working rotating shifts so last monday I tried out a Royler Gracie affiliated BJJ club and I must say it was quite a diffence from the grappling class in mma. Much more detail in the instruction and an hour longer class.
The BJJ is only 12 miles of hard traffic away, is at 9:15pmish when my family is in bed and is substantially cheaper than MMA. I pay $7- in gass for one class. I’m going to do both for a while but the MMA may have to go and I’d hate to do that. It’s a great place to train but I can get almost twice as much training at the BBJ for school. For a lot less money.
I think keeping an open mind about different training methods is an important part of the education of a fighter. The most successful (and humble) coaches, teachers, and training partners I’ve had over the years have all had one thing in common, and that’s an eagerness to learn and try new things.
Saying you should never do this, or don’t do that, is going to limit your development as an athlete no matter what your personal goals are. Maybe something doesn’t work for you, but it might be really beneficial to someone else. We’re all built differently, and we all fight differently, so I don’t see the problem in different training ideas and philosophies.
This forum is just a place to share workouts and ideas, and I like that when I check this thread out I might learn something new.
[quote]Jelly Roll wrote:
I think keeping an open mind about different training methods is an important part of the education of a fighter. The most successful (and humble) coaches, teachers, and training partners I’ve had over the years have all had one thing in common, and that’s an eagerness to learn and try new things.
Saying you should never do this, or don’t do that, is going to limit your development as an athlete no matter what your personal goals are. Maybe something doesn’t work for you, but it might be really beneficial to someone else. We’re all built differently, and we all fight differently, so I don’t see the problem in different training ideas and philosophies.
This forum is just a place to share workouts and ideas, and I like that when I check this thread out I might learn something new.
JR [/quote]
Well said. That’s a cool avatar photo, by the way. I’ve heard rumblings that my MMA gym is looking to expand to a bigger space, and with that expansion they are going to have an area for cross-training, equipped with TIRES, SLEDGEHAMMERS and other cool things.
[quote]JRT6 wrote:
My MMA gym is 25 miles of hard traffic away and the classes are not at a good time for a family man working rotating shifts so last monday I tried out a Royler Gracie affiliated BJJ club and I must say it was quite a diffence from the grappling class in mma. Much more detail in the instruction and an hour longer class.
The BJJ is only 12 miles of hard traffic away, is at 9:15pmish when my family is in bed and is substantially cheaper than MMA. I pay $7- in gass for one class. I’m going to do both for a while but the MMA may have to go and I’d hate to do that. It’s a great place to train but I can get almost twice as much training at the BBJ for school. For a lot less money.[/quote]
JRT6,
I can definitely sympathize with the work/class schedule situation. I work a lot of split shifts at the paper, and often that directly interferes with the schedule at my MMA gym (which is the same place I take BJJ at)…
My only saving grace is that the gym is literally 5 min. away from my home, so I can squeeze in classes on Saturday and sometimes early morning if I have time.
Even though you’re not training full-on MMA, at least you’re doing something. The BJJ school sounds good. Perhaps you can work on striking at home until you can get back to the MMA school.
Well, looks like what I thought was allergies has turned into a head cold, although I’m doing my best to fight it.
Still, not training MMA or BJJ b/c I can’t breathe out of my nose that well. Did some bodyweight circuits this afternoon, and also 20 min. of stretching, just to stay loose.
question for the group…again…going to start the Waterbury method this week. Although it only recomends 3 days a week…I only have about an hour a day to work out. Would their be any downfall to lifting three days and in between doing my abs, calves, 4arms and core or would that not allow me enough rest time? Just wondering. Thanks guys
I’m planning to start training Muay Thai at Jorge Gurgel’s MMA Academy. Hopefully I will be able to take some jiu jitsu/submission grappling classes later on as my schedule allows. Right now, I’m leaning toward going two or three times a week for MT.
What kind of gear am I going to need to purchase myself and what will be provided? Any information on what to expect for my first couple classes, what to wear, how to prepare, etc would all be appreciated.
I’m planning to start training Muay Thai at Jorge Gurgel’s MMA Academy. Hopefully I will be able to take some jiu jitsu/submission grappling classes later on as my schedule allows. Right now, I’m leaning toward going two or three times a week for MT.
What kind of gear am I going to need to purchase myself and what will be provided? Any information on what to expect for my first couple classes, what to wear, how to prepare, etc would all be appreciated.[/quote]
Thanks for posting. Jorge’s new gym looks super-nice, and big, so you should have a good time there.
As for what you’ll need for muay Thai: a pair of 16-oz. gloves, hand wraps, shin guards, mouthpiece and of course, a cup.
The shin guards could be something you purchase a bit later down the road, as you might not need them right away. But they are good to have…
As for what to expect in your first classes, my guess is that you’ll be starting in a beginner’s class. So you’ll learn a lot of technical stuff; stance, how to properly throw a punch, knee, kick, elbow. Stuff like that. I doubt you’d do any live sparring right away.