MLB 2011 Part Two

Off Topic
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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]eeu743 wrote:

Lawrie had a couple hits and an RBI tonight, I think. Call me when he hits a home run or steals a base every freaking game like Desmond Jennings. I don’t know about you guys, but I find the call-up stuff really exciting. It’s fun watching a guy who may be a future star getting his feet wet.
[/quote]

The guy can run from Home plate to 1st in 3.8 seconds which is incredible for a RIGHT handed hitter.[/quote]

For what it’s worth I was JK he doesn’t really have to do that for me to be impressed.

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[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]steadfastred wrote:
The giant’s cockstroking is amazing here. [/quote]

Kiss the ring.[/quote]

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[quote]eeu743 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]eeu743 wrote:

Lawrie had a couple hits and an RBI tonight, I think. Call me when he hits a home run or steals a base every freaking game like Desmond Jennings. I don’t know about you guys, but I find the call-up stuff really exciting. It’s fun watching a guy who may be a future star getting his feet wet.
[/quote]

The guy can run from Home plate to 1st in 3.8 seconds which is incredible for a RIGHT handed hitter.[/quote]

For what it’s worth I was JK he doesn’t really have to do that for me to be impressed.
[/quote]

Lawrie and Jennings are both elite talents, and it will be awesome to watch them flourish. I just Belt could have lived up to the hype of his call up.

I know he’s not a call up, but Strasburg’s return is also on the horizon, and hopefully he’ll be able to bring the excitement and skill set that he flashed pre injury.

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I also think what the Rockies did in regards to getting rid of Ubaldo and getting some stud prospects in return was genius. Ubaldo is simply not a great pitcher. He had one great half year, and aside from that he has been an average, if not below average, pitcher.

Well played Colorado (even though I hate you).

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[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]steadfastred wrote:
The giant’s cockstroking is amazing here. [/quote]

Kiss the ring.[/quote]
[/quote]

There’s the team cancer right there. Huff came into camp out of shape and overweight from what I’ve heard. And I’ve also heard he felt more than a little slighted by Belt being invited to Spring Training with a chance to win Huff’s job at first. Perhaps his struggles, combined with his attitude and the presence of a class-act and a good clubhouse guy in Beltran has rubbed him the wrong way, leading to some tension in the clubhouse that wasn’t there before.

And regarding Bonds: no, we don’t agree to disagree. That would be akin to me admitting that you have a point about Bonds, which you don’t. The guy lost every ounce of respect he had ever earned on the field when it came out that he had cheated. And I don’t know that his tarnished accomplishments on the field built AT&T at all. You’re assuming that the Giants would have been horrible without him and that nothing would have been done to correct this.

How do you or I know what would have happened if the Giants hadn’t signed Bonds? It’s entirely possible that another year or so of mediocrity would have given them a couple years of better draft picks? Perhaps the Giants would have ended up with better draft picks, drafted a top-flight pitcher or two, maybe signed a couple other free agents who weren’t clubhouse cancers instead and won the World Series while they were still in Candlestick? We don’t know any of that, so it’s ridiculous to assume that the Giants would have been shitty all those years without him. Don’t forget, they were shitty with Bonds in '94, '95, '96, '99, '05, '06 and '07. That’s seven years of apathy out of 15 years, with no titles.

As much as Bonds did for the franchise, there’s just as much reason to believe that he retarded the growth process of the team just as much as he helped it. And since the only thing about him that we know for sure is that he cheated the game, disrespected it, treated his own wives and family like shit and was, by many accounts, a hated figure on his own team, I choose to condemn the guy. All you’ve done is choose to overlook this stuff about him in favor of some imagined “what if” scenario.

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I’m SO excited about Strasburg. Here’s hoping that he’s fully recovered, and has no serious issues down the road. Dude is clearly capable of being the next big thing.

Yeah, Ubaldo was not good against Texas last night. I think that the Rockies will end up winning that trade, but obviously it remains to be seen.

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]eeu743 wrote:

Lawrie had a couple hits and an RBI tonight, I think. Call me when he hits a home run or steals a base every freaking game like Desmond Jennings. I don’t know about you guys, but I find the call-up stuff really exciting. It’s fun watching a guy who may be a future star getting his feet wet.
[/quote]

The guy can run from Home plate to 1st in 3.8 seconds which is incredible for a RIGHT handed hitter.[/quote]

Mickey Mantle could do it in 3.1 seconds. Seriously. But anything under 4 seconds is FAST.[/quote]

Yeah I heard that too, but I’m more skeptical about claims from previous eras, they would exaggerate like crazy back then.

I’ve also heard Mickey Mantle could turn off the lights and be in bed before the light left the room.

I’m sure he was really fast though.

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Also you west coast guys are up damn early on a saturday morning. Posting at 7am on a weekend? ddaaamn…

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]steadfastred wrote:
The giant’s cockstroking is amazing here. [/quote]

Kiss the ring.[/quote]
[/quote]
How do you or I know what would have happened if the Giants hadn’t signed Bonds? It’s entirely possible that another year or so of mediocrity would have given them a couple years of better draft picks?[/quote]

Honestly this is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve seen from you. The “what if we didn’t have him and played even better” card? Really?

Again, I am praising him only for his on field accomplishments as an athlete, not a person. I watch Major League Baseball, not Major League of Good People. If you want to argue in that category, whose college tuition have you paid lately? Bonds paid for all of the Stowe families children.

Either way, I think you can do a little better than your shoddy “what could we have done without him” argument.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also you west coast guys are up damn early on a saturday morning. Posting at 7am on a weekend? ddaaamn…[/quote]

Yea I wake up at 5AM everyday, just how I run. No matter how hard I “try” to sleep in, I don’t sleep past 5-5:30 ha.

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Fox should give us an option on what game we want to watch. I’d rather watch Giants vs. Philles rather than Yankees vs. Red Sox. That plus I don’t want to hear Joe Buck.

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On the bright side for todays loss to the Phillies, Cain (and Bumgarner on Thursday) can keep the Philly offense to 2 runs.

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[quote]fnf wrote:
On the bright side for todays loss to the Phillies, Cain (and Bumgarner on Thursday) can keep the Philly offense to 2 runs.[/quote]

Ha yea, problem is we can only put up one. I guess in a year where we’re winning so many one run games, you have to expect to lose some.

Beltran needs to get hot sometime soon. Maybe he should wear the red thong.

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[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]steadfastred wrote:
The giant’s cockstroking is amazing here. [/quote]

Kiss the ring.[/quote]
[/quote]
How do you or I know what would have happened if the Giants hadn’t signed Bonds? It’s entirely possible that another year or so of mediocrity would have given them a couple years of better draft picks?[/quote]

Honestly this is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve seen from you. The “what if we didn’t have him and played even better” card? Really?

Again, I am praising him only for his on field accomplishments as an athlete, not a person. I watch Major League Baseball, not Major League of Good People. If you want to argue in that category, whose college tuition have you paid lately? Bonds paid for all of the Stowe families children.

Either way, I think you can do a little better than your shoddy “what could we have done without him” argument.[/quote]

First of all, I EARNED my college tuition with my performance on the baseball field, and since I’ve gone back to school I’VE paid my college tuition out of my own pocket. That’s more than I can say for many, many people, who are having or have had theirs subsidized by Joe Taxpayer.

Secondly, to say that there’s anything altruistic or magnanimous about Bonds paying the Stow’s college tuition is ridiculous. Ever heard the parable about the guy who sits in the front of the church every Sunday making a big show about donating piles of gold coins at collection time, even though it really doesn’t make a dent in his wealth, while the poor woman in the back of the church quietly and unassumingly gives just one gold coin, the only coin to her name? Well, Bonds is the guy in the front of the church. That money means NOTHING to him and it even further lacks altruism given that he donated it as he was awaiting the verdict on his multiple felony federal court case.

And my “what if” argument is no different than your “what if” argument. So if mine is dumb then so is yours. Think about it. It’s the same line of logic. The point is that even if we disregard the complete monster he is OFF the field, he was still a complete monster ON the field. He was hated by many and this was evidenced by the fact that the last free agent year of his not ONE SINGLE team offered him any sort of contract whatsoever, except for the Giants. He cheated the game with his steroid use, he disrespected his own teammates and it’s complete bullshit to brush aside his cheating simply because he got better results than anyone else who cheated. The only accomplishments I respect of his all occurred before 1999. After that, I rooted for him only because he was a Giant, and begrudgingly at that. If he played on any other team I would have hated his guts more than I hate A-Rod or Chase Utley. And if you’re honest with yourself you’ll probably find yourself saying the same thing.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also you west coast guys are up damn early on a saturday morning. Posting at 7am on a weekend? ddaaamn…[/quote]

It’s California! An extra hour in bed is one less hour in the beautiful sun and weather. Spent all day today swimming and diving into these gorgeous swimming holes in Chico’s pristine Upper Bidwell Park. Nothing like spending the day diving headfirst into crystal clear water from 30’ up. But if I sleep in 'til 11 or 12 I miss half the day. Besides, I’m not up until 3am on Friday nights drinking anymore, so getting up at 6am isn’t hard at all.

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

The point is that even if we disregard the complete monster he is OFF the field, he was still a complete monster ON the field. He was hated by many and this was evidenced by the fact that the last free agent year of his not ONE SINGLE team offered him any sort of contract whatsoever, except for the Giants. He cheated the game with his steroid use, he disrespected his own teammates and it’s complete bullshit to brush aside his cheating simply because he got better results than anyone else who cheated. [/quote]

All this is considered OFF the field.

Many Bonds fans couldn’t give a single fuck that he took steroids. From some of the Bonds fans I’ve talk to, many feel upwards to 70% of the league were taking banned substances. So no, I doubt most die hard Bonds fans like WC7 would feel the same as you.

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also you west coast guys are up damn early on a saturday morning. Posting at 7am on a weekend? ddaaamn…[/quote]

It’s California! An extra hour in bed is one less hour in the beautiful sun and weather. Spent all day today swimming and diving into these gorgeous swimming holes in Chico’s pristine Upper Bidwell Park. Nothing like spending the day diving headfirst into crystal clear water from 30’ up. But if I sleep in 'til 11 or 12 I miss half the day. Besides, I’m not up until 3am on Friday nights drinking anymore, so getting up at 6am isn’t hard at all.[/quote]

The pics of Upper Bidwell Park on the 'net look pretty nice.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

The point is that even if we disregard the complete monster he is OFF the field, he was still a complete monster ON the field. He was hated by many and this was evidenced by the fact that the last free agent year of his not ONE SINGLE team offered him any sort of contract whatsoever, except for the Giants. He cheated the game with his steroid use, he disrespected his own teammates and it’s complete bullshit to brush aside his cheating simply because he got better results than anyone else who cheated. [/quote]

All this is considered OFF the field.

Many Bonds fans couldn’t give a single fuck that he took steroids. From some of the Bonds fans I’ve talk to, many feel upwards to 70% of the league were taking banned substances. So no, I doubt most die hard Bonds fans like WC7 would feel the same as you.[/quote]

Yea DB, your just missing the point on this one.

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[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

The point is that even if we disregard the complete monster he is OFF the field, he was still a complete monster ON the field. He was hated by many and this was evidenced by the fact that the last free agent year of his not ONE SINGLE team offered him any sort of contract whatsoever, except for the Giants. He cheated the game with his steroid use, he disrespected his own teammates and it’s complete bullshit to brush aside his cheating simply because he got better results than anyone else who cheated. [/quote]

All this is considered OFF the field.

Many Bonds fans couldn’t give a single fuck that he took steroids. From some of the Bonds fans I’ve talk to, many feel upwards to 70% of the league were taking banned substances. So no, I doubt most die hard Bonds fans like WC7 would feel the same as you.[/quote]

Yea DB, your just missing the point on this one.[/quote]

No, YOU are missing the point. What he did OFF the field (taking steroids) tarnished everything he did ON the field. What “70%” of fans think has no bearing on whether or not I am justified in feeling no respect for Bonds’ on-field accomplishments. I don’t respect what he did on the field because of what he did off the field. If you don’t see why there is a direct correlation there and why what he did off the field has tarnished what he did on the field, I’m sorry. But the whole point here, the entire reason this discussion has started, is because you, WestCoast, told me that I need to respect his on-field accomplishments.

So really, it’s you who has missed the point. Am I supposed to respect the fact that he hit 73 homeruns ON the field? Absolutely not. He cheated in order to become good enough to do that. Am I supposed to respect his .370 batting avg in 2002? No, he accomplished that by cheating. Am I supposed to respect the fact that he was such a great hitter late into his 30’s when lesser hitter begin to seriously decline? No, he sustained that level of performance by cheating? Am I supposed to respect the fact that he carried his team for so many years? No, because the teams that he carried by and large hated him and his massive contracts arguably stunted the development of the rest of the team.

So what point is that I am missing here guys? How is it that I am wrong to have ZERO respect for most of what Bonds did on the field? And really, how can you fully separate what happens ON the field from what happens OFF the field in this day and age? DO you respect what little accomplishments Rae Carruth made on the field? Do you respect what Mel Hall (who is a convicted child molester) did on the field? Do you respect what Ugueth Urbina (convicted of attempted murder) did on the field? And I realize that these crimes are much bigger than what Bonds has done. But you say you are a fan of Major League Baseball, not Major League Good People or whatever, so do you mean to tell me that as a fan of MLB you are willing to give respect to someone who egregiously and UNDENIABLY disrespected MLB?

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also you west coast guys are up damn early on a saturday morning. Posting at 7am on a weekend? ddaaamn…[/quote]

It’s California! An extra hour in bed is one less hour in the beautiful sun and weather. Spent all day today swimming and diving into these gorgeous swimming holes in Chico’s pristine Upper Bidwell Park. Nothing like spending the day diving headfirst into crystal clear water from 30’ up. But if I sleep in 'til 11 or 12 I miss half the day. Besides, I’m not up until 3am on Friday nights drinking anymore, so getting up at 6am isn’t hard at all.[/quote]

The pics of Upper Bidwell Park on the 'net look pretty nice.[/quote]

Oh God, it is BEAUTIFUL up there. This is one of the spots I was at yesterday. That big rock directly behind the guys in the picture on the left is what I was diving off of yesterday.