MLB 2011 Part Two

Off Topic
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[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

If he had a 190 avg he wouldnt be in the conversation, let alone being compared to a better performer. Obviously you know that. The point is that Raj was trying to say how Bautista has similar stats to Granderson wrt RISP AVG. He does, but he underperforms in those situations. In the most important situations he is in in any given game, he shits the bed.
[/quote]

This assertion is completely asinine. So if your batting average passes a certain arbitrary point, it’s important that your avg w/ RISP is equal to or greater than your overall batting average, but if you’re below that endpoint, it doesn’t matter?

Granderson and Bautista are virtually equal in batting average w/ RISP, neither is more clutch than the other (if that’s how you define clutch… which I personally don’t but this is for the sake of argument). Bautista is better when the bases is empty, this helps his case as a tiebreaker. The fact that he can be worse w/ RISP and still be EQUAL to Granderson at his lowest point shows he’s better than Granderson.

How a reasonably intelligent dude like you isn’t getting this is flabbergasting to me.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Ill ask one last time. At what age did you stop playing baseball?[/quote]

I don’t get how this is relevant. How many professional sports players (NBA, NFL, MLB) have flamed out as coaches/owners/GMs? Even hall of famers frequently suck at it. Clearly, being awesome at a sport does not mean you know what all is needed for a team to win - and your fascination with this amuses me. I can point out countless examples to support this across all sports.

But since you asked, I stopped playing seriously around 15 or 16, and I still sub in for my buddy’s fastpitch league when I can. I don’t ever pretend like I’m accomplished at baseball but I’m a lifetime sports addict (MLB, NBA, NFL)

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[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
I’m surprised nobody is televising the Nationals game with Strasburg on the mound the first time this year.[/quote]

They showed it here, it was awesome… he gave them a 3-run lead then the bullpen gave up 7 and cost him the game. True Nats style.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

The point is that Bautista folds in the spots where he needs to dominate to give his team a chance to win.

Youre another one with the logic skills of a raccoon.

If he had a 190 avg he wouldnt be in the conversation, let alone being compared to a better performer. Obviously you know that. The point is that Raj was trying to say how Bautista has similar stats to Granderson wrt RISP AVG. He does, but he underperforms in those situations. In the most important situations he is in in any given game, he shits the bed.

A player on a bad team should not be disqualified from the MVP conversation, as some writers believe. However, the player on a bad team needs to have a season full of dominance across the board. It’s the reason Arod won ONE mvp in texas when he easily could have won 4. The year that he won was undeniable. There was no one close to him. Bautista doesnt come close to mirroring that scenario.

[/quote]

This discussion has never been about who will win, it’s been about which player has the best offensive production. Whether you think Bautista needs to put the same sort of distance between himself and other candidates like A-rod did in his MVP year is irrelevant.

Setting aside the bullshit stats of total RBI and runs scored, the only thing Granderson does noticeably better than Bautista is steal and run the bases. In basically every meaningful statistic, they are either very close or Bautista is a notch or two better.

Are you going to admit from a purely meaningful statistical standpoint, Bautista is a better performer than Granderson? That’s what this discussion has been about.

[/quote]

The funny thing about this post is that every sports writer and baseball historian will tell you that RBI and runs are two of THE MOST IMPORTANT stats if not the top two. Yet you call them BS stats. You really just dont have a grasp of the game, that much is obvious. Youre a casual fan who has assigned his own value to stats that have been evaluated for over 80 years.

Bautista is for sure not a better performer. Not this season. [/quote]

Simply because something has been done for a long time does not make it correct.

The funny about this post is you’ve had it explained to you several times there is good reason to doubt total RBI and runs scored as means to measure individual production. You can’t deny those stats are heavily team oriented, you have been presented with piles of evidence to back this assertion.

If you care so much about what sports writers have to say why don’t you take a look at what they’re saying? Setting aside who they actually pick, almost ALL of them acknowledge Bautista has the best offensive production of the position players from a statistical standpoint.

Honestly, I think you know your arguments are shitty and the only thing you have left is to try and discredit my opinion as well as scj119’s. Hence, the tone of your last post and you pressing scj119 about his level of baseball experience.

tl;dr You are full of shit and your arguments suck.

[/quote]

Here’s the thing: if a guy gets on base and someone else drives him in, it’s a two person effort but the guy driving in the run gets more credit. “Getting on base” and “driving him in” are both equally important in that equation.

I refuse to penalize someone for not having men on base when he hits.

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[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Justin.

Verlander.[/quote]

He is absolutely up there and IMO it’s a three-way race between him, Granderson and Bautista for MVP. Frankly, Ellsbury isn’t far behind.

My arguments for Bautista are more about playing devil’s advocate because I believe it’s close. If everyone was obsessed with Bautista I would be arguing for Granderson to bring the race back to the middle.

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[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Justin.

Verlander.[/quote]

He is absolutely up there and IMO it’s a three-way race between him, Granderson and Bautista for MVP. Frankly, Ellsbury isn’t far behind.

My arguments for Bautista are more about playing devil’s advocate because I believe it’s close. If everyone was obsessed with Bautista I would be arguing for Granderson to bring the race back to the middle.[/quote]

I’ve been saying from the beginning, if you don’t think Bautista is the MVP fine. But don’t tell me he hasn’t had the best offensive production of all position players.

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I heard about Strausburg’s 5 inning shut out. Seems promising.

Interesting enough, a Jays player Dustin McGowan also made his first start after being injured for 3 years. The guy had 2 potential career ending injuries and somehow managed to return.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Justin.

Verlander.[/quote]

He is absolutely up there and IMO it’s a three-way race between him, Granderson and Bautista for MVP. Frankly, Ellsbury isn’t far behind.

My arguments for Bautista are more about playing devil’s advocate because I believe it’s close. If everyone was obsessed with Bautista I would be arguing for Granderson to bring the race back to the middle.[/quote]

I’ve been saying from the beginning, if you don’t think Bautista is the MVP fine. But don’t tell me he hasn’t had the best offensive production of all position players.[/quote]

His offensive year has been awesome. Granderson’s has also been awesome and he plays a tougher defensive position. Verlander has been absolutely ridiculous.

I rarely consider pitchers for MVP but this might be one of those exceptions.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
I heard about Strausburg’s 5 inning shut out. Seems promising.

Interesting enough, a Jays player Dustin McGowan also made his first start after being injured for 3 years. The guy had 2 potential career ending injuries and somehow managed to return. [/quote]

Yeah man I watched it… hitting upper 90’s, no walks in 5 innings (4 Ks)… he looked damn good. I think Nats will contend for a wild card in 2013 with Strasburg, Harper, the Zimmerman(n)s, and the rest of the crew.

McGowan was a sad injury case…so much potential.

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[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I heard about Strausburg’s 5 inning shut out. Seems promising.

Interesting enough, a Jays player Dustin McGowan also made his first start after being injured for 3 years. The guy had 2 potential career ending injuries and somehow managed to return. [/quote]

Yeah man I watched it… hitting upper 90’s, no walks in 5 innings (4 Ks)… he looked damn good. I think Nats will contend for a wild card in 2013 with Strasburg, Harper, the Zimmerman(n)s, and the rest of the crew.

McGowan was a sad injury case…so much potential.[/quote]

If Werth can ever live up to his contract, that team could be nasty next year.

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[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I heard about Strausburg’s 5 inning shut out. Seems promising.

Interesting enough, a Jays player Dustin McGowan also made his first start after being injured for 3 years. The guy had 2 potential career ending injuries and somehow managed to return. [/quote]

Yeah man I watched it… hitting upper 90’s, no walks in 5 innings (4 Ks)… he looked damn good. I think Nats will contend for a wild card in 2013 with Strasburg, Harper, the Zimmerman(n)s, and the rest of the crew.

McGowan was a sad injury case…so much potential.[/quote]

If Werth can ever live up to his contract, that team could be nasty next year.[/quote]

I think the best case scenario is getting 2 good years out of that contract.

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What about rookies of the year?

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Freeman? Trumbo?

I don’t really follow the ROY too closely, to me it’s really not that prestigious an award and is more of a bargaining chip for the player in future arbitration/contract negotiations than anything else.

Most people who follow baseball can rail off a bunch of the previous MVPs and Cy Young award winners, but I doubt most remember who was ROY 10 years ago.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
Freeman? Trumbo?

I don’t really follow the ROY too closely, to me it’s really not that prestigious an award and is more of a bargaining chip for the player in future arbitration/contract negotiations than anything else.

Most people who follow baseball can rail off a bunch of the previous MVPs and Cy Young award winners, but I doubt most remember who was ROY 10 years ago.[/quote]

Pineda in AL I think, Freeman NL

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Freeman has some stuff competition from his own teammate Kimbrel. He has 42 saves with a 1.57 ERA and .167 BAA. Pretty impressive for a rookie.

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Yea I would say Kimbrel is absolutely in the conversation.

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They just said during the game right now that he hasn’t given up a run in his last 36 innings. I think that is what they just said. That is pretty damn impressive for a closer. I would vote for him if I had a vote.

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I think they should just give it to Posey again, to help make his leg feel better.

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[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Freeman has some stuff competition from his own teammate Kimbrel. He has 42 saves with a 1.57 ERA and .167 BAA. Pretty impressive for a rookie.[/quote]

Jesus, I didn’t even realize Kimbrel was a rookie this year. I know he pitched a little bit last year but I forgot that he didn’t pitch enough to qualify as a rookie last year. Yeah, I think he’s the ROY for sure. Freeman has had an excellent season (especially for my fantasy team) but as far as 1bmen goes, he isn’t really in elite NL territory, whereas Kimbrel is definitely one of the elite closers in the game right now.

Bottom line is that Kimbrel is a better player at his position than Freeman is and he’s the best pitcher in the best bullpen in baseball. Not only does he deserve the ROY, he’s deserving of a few Cy Young votes as well.

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Freeman has some stuff competition from his own teammate Kimbrel. He has 42 saves with a 1.57 ERA and .167 BAA. Pretty impressive for a rookie.[/quote]

Jesus, I didn’t even realize Kimbrel was a rookie this year. I know he pitched a little bit last year but I forgot that he didn’t pitch enough to qualify as a rookie last year. Yeah, I think he’s the ROY for sure. Freeman has had an excellent season (especially for my fantasy team) but as far as 1bmen goes, he isn’t really in elite NL territory, whereas Kimbrel is definitely one of the elite closers in the game right now.

Bottom line is that Kimbrel is a better player at his position than Freeman is and he’s the best pitcher in the best bullpen in baseball. Not only does he deserve the ROY, he’s deserving of a few Cy Young votes as well. [/quote]

Go Braves…

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
Freeman? Trumbo?

I don’t really follow the ROY too closely, to me it’s really not that prestigious an award and is more of a bargaining chip for the player in future arbitration/contract negotiations than anything else.

Most people who follow baseball can rail off a bunch of the previous MVPs and Cy Young award winners, but I doubt most remember who was ROY 10 years ago.[/quote]

Freeman or Kimbrel…Kimbrel is a strong candidate for ROY…