Mixed Motivations?

Training Bodybuilding
1

Does anybody have trouble separating the desire to get big from the desire to lose weight?

I want/need to lose some weight- right now I’m 6’1" and 270ish, bodyfat in the mid 20’s, and would prefer to be 230 or so. I also want to bench 350 and deadlift 500 by the end of the year.

I’ve had success losing weight in the past- I went from 318 to 258 for my wedding last August. MOST of the weight I’ve gained since has been muscle. I’ve been beating the logbook consistently, I’m noticeably thicker in my upper body, and my quads are growing.

Which does nothing for the gut/love handle complex.

The problem is that I can’t lose weight by going to the gym, or at least haven’t been successful so far. I know WHAT to do, I just don’t know how to get myself to do it without feeling like I’m sacrificing the gains I’m making. I lost weight before just by eating less, no cardio. I’m pretty sure I could do that now.

Should I try to hit the 350/500 goal, then try to cut doing barbell complexes and low carbs for a month or two? Should I go heavy for another month, then see how much I can lose the next month? Rinse, repeat, until I’m good? The world won’t come to an end if I don’t hit the lifting goals, of course, but I don’t know how happy I’ll be if I let myself get away with not trying to get it.

Any advice?

2

It may be beneficial for you to purchase precision nutrition. At first it seems very basic but will likely give you the info you need to accomplish your goals.

There aren’t any reasons I can think of why you cant achieve both goals though. Sure you might not reach 350/500 as fast if your losing weight, but it will be far more impressive at closer to 200 than closer to 300 bw.

You dont need to do any cardio at all. That is the last thing you need to do with your goals. Lifting heavy is a good way to lose weight. Your weight loss is gonna come from proper eating.

What are you lifts at right now? That will also likely determine what you should do. Also, are you going to compete or are you just trying to reach these goals for the hell of it. What is more important to you, being more ripped and likely healthier, or reaching that strength goal.

Its up to you what to do, but I think most people should cut at least to around 15% before they try to bulk up.

3

[quote]futurepharm wrote:
Should I try to hit the 350/500 goal, then try to cut doing barbell complexes and low carbs for a month or two? Should I go heavy for another month, then see how much I can lose the next month? Rinse, repeat, until I’m good? The world won’t come to an end if I don’t hit the lifting goals, of course, but I don’t know how happy I’ll be if I let myself get away with not trying to get it.

Any advice?[/quote]

I was in the same predicament, the strength and muscle gains were going great however I do have massive love handles and a bit of a gut, i decided to cut while I’m not gaining much strength funnily enough my strength on deads and a few other exercises is steadily going up. I’m currently doing the low carb diet trying to keep carbs under 40grams a day, check my log if your interested e

4

This might not count for much but when I was younger I was always a litle chubby, not like way fat but just a little chubby as most kids are. Anyways I got into cycling for a year or two and lost it all and got in good shape by press ups and chin ups at my house.

From this I would say it is better to focus your training 80% on running, cycling and swimming for a while and do just enough weights to stimulate them enough.

You will find you can go better at the weights when you feel good about yourself already. Im lucky I started doing them with a lean body in the beginning.

My brother started training around same time as me and he was a little overly chubby and naturally bigger and heavier then me.
5 years on and hes still not got any abs or lost much fat. Sure He is lifting more than me on almost all lifts but hes 25 lbs heavier and cant walk around shirtless.

Hope this convinces you to lose the gut before hitting the weights with complete dedication.

5

[quote]irishpowerhouse wrote:
This might not count for much but when I was younger I was always a litle chubby, not like way fat but just a little chubby as most kids are. Anyways I got into cycling for a year or two and lost it all and got in good shape by press ups and chin ups at my house.

From this I would say it is better to focus your training 80% on running, cycling and swimming for a while and do just enough weights to stimulate them enough.

You will find you can go better at the weights when you feel good about yourself already. Im lucky I started doing them with a lean body in the beginning.

My brother started training around same time as me and he was a little overly chubby and naturally bigger and heavier then me.
5 years on and hes still not got any abs or lost much fat. Sure He is lifting more than me on almost all lifts but hes 25 lbs heavier and cant walk around shirtless.

Hope this convinces you to lose the gut before hitting the weights with complete dedication. [/quote]

I don’t actively disagree with people on here very much, but I absolutely have to disagree here. Do not stop lifting weights to lose weight! That is just plain silly. In fact, resistance training is vital to weight loss if you want to keep the muscle you’ve worked so hard to gain.

Personal anecdote, I went from 285 to 205 just with lifting weights and a good diet. There was minimal if any cardio most weeks. Clean up your diet first and foremost. Then shorten your rest periods and keep lifting heavy shit. You will start dropping fat in a hurry if you do those three things. When your progress inevitably stalls at some point (like mine did anyway) then that is when you add in the cardio.

6

Im not saying DO NOT LIFT, What I am saying is that if he has body fat in the 20’s somewhere, It is probably best to focus mainly on getting that off.

Its a touchy subject to say the least, obviously weight training is great for melting off the fat but it also requires extra calories.

I would advise the guy to lose a fair amount of the fat which should take 5 months or so before hitting the weights hard, as in trying to get big lifts in squats and deadlifts etc.

Just my opinion on it, im not saying no weights but, dont make it the corner stone of your fat loss efforts if you have a massive road to travel

7

I’m not eating terrible now, maybe 4000 calories a day of good clean food. I do play around with carbs a bit on the weekend, just because we go and visit friends or family and it’s harder to eat lower carbs then. So I’m kinda doing a CKD like Lyle McDonald used to do back in the day.

As far as my lifts now, I currently bench 285 and deadlift 385 with no straps. I’m probably good for 40 more lbs or more with no straps. I think if I keep going the way I am now, I can get both of those goals or pretty close to them by the end of the year.

This is my current split-

Mon- Chest/Biceps
Tues-Quads/Shoulders
Wed-Back/Triceps
Thurs-off
Fri-Posterior Chain/Forearms
Sat,Sun-off

What I’m thinking of doing is continuing my current program until September, to see where that takes me strengthwise. Starting September, I’ll just keep the same split and do just one major exercise per body part to keep my strength up, then do complexes and HIIT as appropriate to cut while lowering my intake a bit.

For example, Monday would look like this:

Bench Press
EZ Bar Curl
Complexes
Dumbbell Swings

I just know that what keeps me going to the gym are the PRs. I fucking hate cardio. I can’t stand being like a rat on a wheel.

8

HIIT. Do it outside, and time yourself. I also hate treadmills, you have to run twice as far for twice as many months to get the benefits of being outside.

9

[quote]irishpowerhouse wrote:
Im not saying DO NOT LIFT, What I am saying is that if he has body fat in the 20’s somewhere, It is probably best to focus mainly on getting that off.

Its a touchy subject to say the least, obviously weight training is great for melting off the fat but it also requires extra calories.

I would advise the guy to lose a fair amount of the fat which should take 5 months or so before hitting the weights hard, as in trying to get big lifts in squats and deadlifts etc.

Just my opinion on it, im not saying no weights but, dont make it the corner stone of your fat loss efforts if you have a massive road to travel [/quote]

I still disagree. It is important for him to be lowering his bodyfat percentage, on this point I am with you, but about not hitting the weights hard I still think that is bunk. Weight training is simply THE BEST way to reduce bodyfat%. Hitting the weights hard is the only way to maintain your lean mass while in a cutting phase. Cutting fat is EASY. Building muscle is HARD. The point of a any cut, regardless of level, should be to reduce fat and maintain lean mass. This is not possible without intense weight training.

Also, I say do make weights and diet conerstone’s 1 and 1A of your fat loss efforts. If you don’t, you’re going to drop all that fat and realize you still don’t like the way you look. If you do make weights a huge priority, you’re going to drop the fat and when you’re done you might actually have some muscle left.

Remember “weight” lost can be fat, muscle, blood, or all sorts of other vital things. FAT loss should be the goal. Not weight loss.

10

[quote]futurepharm wrote:
I’m not eating terrible now, maybe 4000 calories a day of good clean food. I do play around with carbs a bit on the weekend, just because we go and visit friends or family and it’s harder to eat lower carbs then. So I’m kinda doing a CKD like Lyle McDonald used to do back in the day.

As far as my lifts now, I currently bench 285 and deadlift 385 with no straps. I’m probably good for 40 more lbs or more with no straps. I think if I keep going the way I am now, I can get both of those goals or pretty close to them by the end of the year.

This is my current split-

Mon- Chest/Biceps
Tues-Quads/Shoulders
Wed-Back/Triceps
Thurs-off
Fri-Posterior Chain/Forearms
Sat,Sun-off

What I’m thinking of doing is continuing my current program until September, to see where that takes me strengthwise. Starting September, I’ll just keep the same split and do just one major exercise per body part to keep my strength up, then do complexes and HIIT as appropriate to cut while lowering my intake a bit.

For example, Monday would look like this:

Bench Press
EZ Bar Curl
Complexes
Dumbbell Swings

I just know that what keeps me going to the gym are the PRs. I fucking hate cardio. I can’t stand being like a rat on a wheel.

[/quote]

If I were you. I would forget this idea. Personally, I would add the complexes to the beginning of your NORMAL weight training routine. Shorten the rest periods during this NORMAL training routine. Do seperate cardio. Reduce calories slowly until you are losing 1-1.5 lbs per week. The fat will melt away. I promise.

I don’t hand out a lot of advice around here, but I do know how to successfully drop a lot of fat and maintain most of your mass. I’ve done it personally and I’ve helped other people that I know in real life do it successfully.

Do this. Don’t get in any hurry and try to drop more than 2 lbs (at maximum) per week and you’ll be happy with the results.

11

You can burn fat and build muscle at the same time but neither will go quickly and it will at times look like it is going backwards. Your weight will go down, up, down… as you burn off fat and build muscle, do yourself a favor and don’t even look at a scale, just go by how your pants fit.

My old size 34’s fall strait to the ground, now even 32’s are getting slack but 30’s are still a bit tight.

12

It’s not like I don’t know how to lose weight, that’s not really my point. And I appreciate the effort, really.

It’s just that I want two things that, for now at least, are kinda exclusive of each other. I’m not going to get as strong as want (at least as fast as I want) by cutting weight. I’m not going to lose weight (fat) as fast as I’d like by eating the way I need to if I’m going to get as strong as I’d like.

I like going to the gym and lifting for strength. I move good weight, I’m stronger every time I go into the gym and I’ve got a log book that proves it. And I don’t care about HAWT ABZ… But I should lose some weight, it’s not as healthy to be carrying the weight I do.

Question, though.

Why do the complexes first, rather than last? I’ve read that you should save the energy system stuff until last to preserve muscle mass.

13

Yeah, dude I’m with you one almost all of it. I couldn’t give a shit about abs either. I just misunderstood what you were looking for from this thread. After would be fine too. But I would do them first as an additional dynamic warm-up.

Because complexes involve weights (and usually compound movements) they are not really cardio. I don’t think you lose anything either way, but I would use them, again, as part of the warm up to really get the blood flowing before pounding the iron. Just my point of view though.

14

[quote]irishpowerhouse wrote:
HIIT. Do it outside, and time yourself. I also hate treadmills, you have to run twice as far for twice as many months to get the benefits of being outside. [/quote]

Don’t tell a 270 pound guy carrying more than 60 pounds of bodyfat to run.

Lift heavy and diet.

Long walks every evening.

Your first goal is to lose the fat. You will look solid when you do and you will still be strong.

15

[quote]futurepharm wrote:
…Why do the complexes first, rather than last? I’ve read that you should save the energy system stuff until last to preserve muscle mass.[/quote]

You can hurt yourself doing complexes when you are tired.

16

But can’t you hurt yourself worse doing deadlifts when you’re tired?

I thought, for complexes, you use a weight that’s challenging without being difficult enough to hurt yourself.

17

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Don’t tell a 270 pound guy carrying more than 60 pounds of bodyfat to run.

[/quote]

You don’t think I can run?

Not that I’m going to, or anything. Just sayin’ I can run is all.