Yeah, neither am I. I’m just offering a different perspective.
My perspective is that guys like the lifter in the video provided yank the bar for 2 reasons.
Attempting to generate speed and accelerate through the bar, or 2. attempting, as you stated, to pull out the “slack” and also encourage the bar to bend upwards before the plates break the floor thereby reducing the distance the weight actually travels which, in particular with a DL bar has the added effect of causing somewhat of an oscillating effect (whip) to the bar as it travels upward which can provide momentum.
I consider the lifter in question pretty experienced so my thoughts would be he is doing this for a particular reason. In that case, he just takes his lumps.
On the flip side of this and in concurrence with your last statment, we see this all the time in new lifters, in particular if they have been taught to powerclean and have not deadlifted much. They really struggle with keeping the arms straight during the movement and usually want to start from a pretty slack position.
Bottom line, keeping the arms straight is good advice to a novice lifter, for sure.
BTW, good luck on your upcoming contest. I will be watching to see how it went.
[/quote]
apwsearch, I always appreciate different perspectives especially when someone explains their point of view. The only way to learn is by asking (or seeing/doing, etc).
Thanks, hoping to do well at the meet. Looking for a 20lb PR in the bench and 40lb PR in the DL from my last meet.
[quote]isr wrote:
Not to hijack this thread, but I had a couple of questions regarding mixed grip with deadlifts, and figured this would be the most appropriate place to ask.
I use double overhand as much as possible, and only switch to mixed at the end (350+).
Should the hands be spaced evenly? I find the most comfortable position is with the underhand side a little wider on the bar than the overhand side. Mistake?
I switch sides (under/over, then over/under) every set. Is this how you guys do it - or do you stick with whatever side feels best?[/quote]
Yeah, neither am I. I’m just offering a different perspective.
My perspective is that guys like the lifter in the video provided yank the bar for 2 reasons.
Attempting to generate speed and accelerate through the bar, or 2. attempting, as you stated, to pull out the “slack” and also encourage the bar to bend upwards before the plates break the floor thereby reducing the distance the weight actually travels which, in particular with a DL bar has the added effect of causing somewhat of an oscillating effect (whip) to the bar as it travels upward which can provide momentum.
I consider the lifter in question pretty experienced so my thoughts would be he is doing this for a particular reason. In that case, he just takes his lumps.
On the flip side of this and in concurrence with your last statment, we see this all the time in new lifters, in particular if they have been taught to powerclean and have not deadlifted much. They really struggle with keeping the arms straight during the movement and usually want to start from a pretty slack position.
Bottom line, keeping the arms straight is good advice to a novice lifter, for sure.
BTW, good luck on your upcoming contest. I will be watching to see how it went.
apwsearch, I always appreciate different perspectives especially when someone explains their point of view. The only way to learn is by asking (or seeing/doing, etc).
Thanks, hoping to do well at the meet. Looking for a 20lb PR in the bench and 40lb PR in the DL from my last meet.
[/quote]
Great way to look at things Modi. Also, good luck at your meet.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
did anyone else notice that in the related videos on that link, someone has posted “DieselWeasel: How NOT to deadlift”?[/quote]
Yeah, funny stuff. Definitely doesn’t look safe I guess it works for him, but back problems and such come complimentary with that sort of form.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
Flow wrote:
Modi wrote:
Phill wrote:
The main thing, YES your risking it if your lifting heavy damn weights your always at a risk. one thing on DL dont bend your arms dont try and curl the bar at all keep them twigs locked out
Phill
Yes, read that, and then re-read that again. This is the primary cause of a biceps tear in the DL.
That’s certainly good to know.
Perhaps the primary cause of bicep tears in beginner of novice lifters.
I know of no experienced lifters that bend their arms when pulling. They simply handle too much weight to make this possible.
The primary reasons for biceps tears in seasoned lifters (full meet lifters with more than 10 meets under their belt) I have seen are as follows:
Improper technique, in particular while tire flipping.
Neglecting to train the biceps. The last two well known PL’s I have spoken to who tore a bicep both said to me in effect, “I basically dropped all bicep work and that was probably a mistake.”
Wear and tear. Overtime, deadlifting can be hard on the body. It can sometimes be a chicken or the egg thing. What came first? The pull where the tendon popped or the cummulative trauma that made it happen.
Mixing up the hand placement of your mixed grip and using an overhand grip for the majority of your accesory pulls is probably not a bad idea.
In fact, we use straps for our accesory pulls and only use mixed for the core exercise and none of us have grip problems.
I personally rotate my mixed grip every training cycle (6-7 weeks).
[/quote]
So you use straps for rows and such but no straps for DLs? Is that what you’re saying?
So you use straps for rows and such but no straps for DLs? Is that what you’re saying?[/quote]
Mixed grip for the work sets. (The majority of us pull sumo in comp so these are done mixed.)
We usually warm-up with shrugs followed by bent rows from the floor.
Typically straps are used for the shrugs but not so much for the rows unless the lifter has a big peak set and are saving grip to achieve prescribed number of reps without fighting grip.
Accesory work then typically consists of the opposite DL style to comp so a sumo would do accesory conventional or vice versa and this is done with straps.
We usually follow with racks and then stiff legs, although as we approach a meet GHR’s amd RH’s are substituted to help with recovery as the training volume increases on the core lift and that much pulling can effect recovery.
Racks and stiff legs are also always done with straps. Basically for no other reason than it allows a double overhand grip which distributes the load more evenly and at that point, relative to grip, load is more important than what you can hold.
So you use straps for rows and such but no straps for DLs? Is that what you’re saying?
Mixed grip for the work sets. (The majority of us pull sumo in comp so these are done mixed.)
We usually warm-up with shrugs followed by bent rows from the floor.
Typically straps are used for the shrugs but not so much for the rows unless the lifter has a big peak set and are saving grip to achieve prescribed number of reps without fighting grip.
Accesory work then typically consists of the opposite DL style to comp so a sumo would do accesory conventional or vice versa and this is done with straps.
We usually follow with racks and then stiff legs, although as we approach a meet GHR’s amd RH’s are substituted to help with recovery as the training volume increases on the core lift and that much pulling can effect recovery.
Racks and stiff legs are also always done with straps. Basically for no other reason than it allows a double overhand grip which distributes the load more evenly and at that point, relative to grip, load is more important than what you can hold.
[/quote]
I see what you’re saying, thanks. I’ll try this next week.
for those that were wondering, a hook grip is a technique used mainly by olympic weightlifters
-(going to attempt to explain it without pictures)-think of how you ARENT supposed to punch, with the thumb inside your hand
-i’m no beast, but so far i’ve pulled a little more than 400 lbs using this technique, and some of the pros are using almost 600 lbs for the c+j, so this isnt that far out of the question to whoever mentioned it
-it might be a little harsh at first, by the way, but so is a torn bicep i suppose
-i have heard of powerlifters using this technique but i have no specific examples (sorry)
[quote]brian.m wrote:
for those that were wondering, a hook grip is a technique used mainly by olympic weightlifters
-(going to attempt to explain it without pictures)-think of how you ARENT supposed to punch, with the thumb inside your hand
-i’m no beast, but so far i’ve pulled a little more than 400 lbs using this technique, and some of the pros are using almost 600 lbs for the c+j, so this isnt that far out of the question to whoever mentioned it
-it might be a little harsh at first, by the way, but so is a torn bicep i suppose
-i have heard of powerlifters using this technique but i have no specific examples (sorry)[/quote]
[quote]brian.m wrote:
for those that were wondering, a hook grip is a technique used mainly by olympic weightlifters
-(going to attempt to explain it without pictures)-think of how you ARENT supposed to punch, with the thumb inside your hand
-i’m no beast, but so far i’ve pulled a little more than 400 lbs using this technique, and some of the pros are using almost 600 lbs for the c+j, so this isnt that far out of the question to whoever mentioned it
-it might be a little harsh at first, by the way, but so is a torn bicep i suppose
-i have heard of powerlifters using this technique but i have no specific examples (sorry)[/quote]
Thanks bro and coming slow avtually kind of fast just gaining movement back and I can see that mental thing for sure just fearing blowing it.
Ill have to get over that shit ASAP if I feel I can If I have movement back etc July 15 will be contest date so nothing better to get over the old mental block then a lil healthy competition and wanting to do great. I know I wont be 100% strength wise but as long as comfortable with loads On a straight arm Im going to GET ER DONE lol
thanks again bro stay strong and take care of those tendons etc.
Phill
[quote]scotty144 wrote:
Phill wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
Sorry to hear that Phil, does it require surgury?
Yes sir was in cast 8 weeks now limited movement in splint for a month and then slowly get rolling again
Phill
Sorry to hear about that Phill.
I have been there buddy…5 years ago. Make sure to get lots of physio now that the cast is off.
I was lucky…have regained most of my strength…but now it is a mental thing. I don’t push it near as much as I used to.
[quote]Phill wrote:
I have yet to see a PL reocrd etc pulled withiout a mixed grip.
Phill
[/quote]
Brad Gillingham, IPF Champion holds many records with a double overhand hook grip.
I’ve been considering switching since DO is much more comfortable for me. I barely notice pain when doing cleans, but I’m not planning on cleaning 400+lbs anytime soon. I’ll have to try it and see how it works out.
I guess it works for him, but back problems and such come complimentary with that sort of form.