Whatever it was it wasn’t near what Lesnar got. With his performance it shouldn’t have been, but even if he won I think he was gonna top out around a hundo.
why do you think that?
With what the UFC’s making off of these guys there needs to be sort of some union or something to get these guys more money, 'cause some of these purses are ridiculous, relatively speaking.
I don’t hear them complaining. All we see is reported purses. They make quite a bit more than their reported purses for a single fight. I don’t understand all the talk of a union. A very small % of americans actually belong to a union.
A union will not change the overal pay of fighters. Some will receive more at the expense of others being payed less. If they are given health insurance, 401k, or other benefits, it will be at the expense of cash money. Don’t forget the overhead for actual adminstration of a union. Salaries, facilities, golf courses, boondoggles, bribes, etc. All money coming out of fighters’ pockets.
I guess if you want lower level fighters to make more at the expense of better fighters that actaully bring in revenues, then a union is a good idea. If fighters want a union to decide that they are incapable of planning for and saving for retirement on their own, or purchase their own health care, then a union will happily change cash in their pockets into some other benefit.
If I was a fighter I would not want to pay my agent and a union to do essentially the same thing. You can at least fire your agent.
[/quote]
Totally agree, people keep knocking the UFC model and lording it everytime a promotion sets up and starts paying large wages. What happens next is the promotion goes bust leaving people in the lurch and the UFC rolls on.
Whatever it was it wasn’t near what Lesnar got. With his performance it shouldn’t have been, but even if he won I think he was gonna top out around a hundo.
why do you think that?
With what the UFC’s making off of these guys there needs to be sort of some union or something to get these guys more money, 'cause some of these purses are ridiculous, relatively speaking.
I don’t hear them complaining. All we see is reported purses. They make quite a bit more than their reported purses for a single fight. I don’t understand all the talk of a union. A very small % of americans actually belong to a union.
A union will not change the overal pay of fighters. Some will receive more at the expense of others being payed less. If they are given health insurance, 401k, or other benefits, it will be at the expense of cash money. Don’t forget the overhead for actual adminstration of a union. Salaries, facilities, golf courses, boondoggles, bribes, etc. All money coming out of fighters’ pockets.
I guess if you want lower level fighters to make more at the expense of better fighters that actaully bring in revenues, then a union is a good idea. If fighters want a union to decide that they are incapable of planning for and saving for retirement on their own, or purchase their own health care, then a union will happily change cash in their pockets into some other benefit.
If I was a fighter I would not want to pay my agent and a union to do essentially the same thing. You can at least fire your agent.
[/quote]
Again, it was reported that if he won his purse would double, and he would add extra for fight of the night, ko of the night or sub of the night but would only be eligible for 2 out of 3 of those. I don’t want that to sound like I was singling out the UFC, I meant mma orgs in general. The UFC already provides dental, health and a host of other benefits, so that’s not coming out of their fighters’ pockets. The NBA has a players union and they seem to be doing pretty well. So does the NFL. With the way MMA is blowing up and the amount of money these orgs are making I’m sure they can spare to share the wealth a bit more. I don’t remember what the UFC 100 ppv drew, but to have your headliners make a combined $345,000 is pretty shady. Boondoggles, bribes and golf courses? You don’t think any of this shit isn’t already rampant? A fighter doesn’t need a union to throw a fight, and having one wouldn’t effect the potential of that happening any more than it’s already there.
Again, it was reported that if he won his purse would double, and he would add extra for fight of the night, ko of the night or sub of the night but would only be eligible for 2 out of 3 of those.
[/quote]
I think you are missing a big part of their yearly salary. This is different for each fighter, but for most of the top guys what they make on actual fight pay is a small part of their yearly salary. They have sponsorships, an employment contract for appearances and other, PPV cuts, and other pay/bonuses that do not get reported to the fight commissions or the public.
Didn’t think you were singling out the UFC but for many the reported pay for a single fight is a very small part of their overall salary.
Sure. Many are happy with unions of all different kinds, but they come at a cost. I would prefer not to be forced to pay into a union that may or may not have my best interests in mind. Even if their intensions are pure, there is no guarantee that the will of the mass fits my priorities.
My biggest beef with unions is forced participation. If one wants to work for a union shop, they have to belong to the union. They cannot negotiate employment terms directly with the employer. That to me is un-American. Each individual should be able to decide for themselves if they want to pay the union to act on their behalf, and participation should not be a requirement for employment. If they truly are providing value, why force anyone to join or exclude them from employment?
It all comes at a cost. I don’t want to get into a economics/politics lesson here, but unions can only share wealth by coercion. Our gov’t was specifically established to protect us from coercion. Terms of employment should be between an employer and employee. If either wants to bring in third part representation, fine. Why do we find it acceptable to force participation by a third party neither may want involved?
Again, you are missing a very large part of overall fighter compensation. Fighters also don’t generally share responsibility for cost of promotion or putting on the show. The UFC is private, so we don’t know what they actually clear. It’s silly to assume they are swimming in cash and not paying fighters their fare share. We just don’t know.
Basic economics tells us that if profit margins were better than any other business, more big investors would be involved. My guess is that they are lucky to clear any more than a pretty standard 20%. This has to cover ongoing investment and return on investment. The UFC is no different than any other business. On average, everyone will make what they are worth in the open market.
I am talking about money that is currently going into their pockets would be redirected to Union overhead. The UFC will pay a finite amount of money for fighters. That money can be given directly to the fighters or a portion of it can be redirected towards the operational cost of the union and the added costs of dealing with a union.
Involving a union in MMA is not going to raise the overall amount of money that all fighters are paid. The pot will be the same with the union deciding how much of is carved up. The UFC will not magically accept a smaller return on investment. If returns were abnormally high, more people would be doing it and increasing competition. If returns are normal, they will not accept lower returns. The will just reinvest where returns are higher.
Sorry, got way too into economics here. This is all just supply and demand and it works quite nice if one side, or a third party, isn’t give legislated authority coerce one or both sides.
By all means man, bring up economics. You make good points all around, and I’m not saying a union is the way to go I just think it should [and probably has] be looked into. I should’ve said excluding endorsements, sponsorship, handouts, etc… a fighters compensation seems to be a small piece of a large pie that admittedly is probably cut a shit ton of different ways. I also doubt the UFC is clearing only 20%.
Not saying you’re wrong or I’m right I just have a feeling they’re doing things for pennies on the dollar and fucking raking it in. It’s owned by casino entrepeneurs, and pretty sure those guys know a thing or two about returning an investment.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
mitchellh wrote:
Mir wants the pay day that will come with a Lesnar ass whippin.
Uh, Mir made $45,000 in their rematch compared to Lesnars $300,000. The money has nothing to do with it. He wants the fight 'cause he knows he can beat him.[/quote]
And that’s probably 30k more then any other fight is going to pay him. Brock is the money right now, everyone wants a part of it.
Interesting to read about what the top fighters in the UFC make, 300-K to the HW Mixed Martial Arts champion of the world (okay, some say Fedor is the real champ but that is irrelevant to this discussion). 300-K to Lesnar and UFC out sells boxing on PPV. What do boxers make in big fights by comparison? Millions! Interesting isn’t it? Dana and the Ferrita brothers must be amassing enough money to start their own country. The best mma fighters in the world seem to be very much under paid.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Interesting to read about what the top fighters in the UFC make, 300-K to the HW Mixed Martial Arts champion of the world (okay, some say Fedor is the real champ but that is irrelevant to this discussion). 300-K to Lesnar and UFC out sells boxing on PPV. What do boxers make in big fights by comparison? Millions! Interesting isn’t it? Dana and the Ferrita brothers must be amassing enough money to start their own country. The best mma fighters in the world seem to be very much under paid. [/quote]
The boxers that make the millions draw in millions. No mma fighter draws near what a PBF does.
boxing still drastically outsells mma on a 1 to 1 basis.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
By all means man, bring up economics. You make good points all around, and I’m not saying a union is the way to go I just think it should [and probably has] be looked into. I should’ve said excluding endorsements, sponsorship, handouts, etc… a fighters compensation seems to be a small piece of a large pie that admittedly is probably cut a shit ton of different ways. I also doubt the UFC is clearing only 20%.
Not saying you’re wrong or I’m right I just have a feeling they’re doing things for pennies on the dollar and fucking raking it in. It’s owned by casino entrepeneurs, and pretty sure those guys know a thing or two about returning an investment.[/quote]
Don’t forget that most of the name guys also have their own gyms and go on seminar tours. The reason they can make money from their gyms and their seminars is that they are names through their success on the UFC.
Most casino games are taking less than 5c on the dollar out of which all of the overheads and your drinks need to be paid. Yes they are making money but not hand over fist. The UFC is the same. At the moment they are investing hugely in expanding into other markets. Ultimately this should protect their business and allow for greater incomes (and security for their fighters) but at the moment it is a huge drain on profits.
Pay for fighters will increase year on year, this is what we have seen in every sport. It is prudent of the UFC to try to keep a lid on this as long as possible to avoid the situation we see in boxing where a couple of guys hold the world to ransom for ridiculous paydays leaving an anaemic undercard where underpaid nobodies fight in front of an empty auditorium.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Interesting to read about what the top fighters in the UFC make, 300-K to the HW Mixed Martial Arts champion of the world (okay, some say Fedor is the real champ but that is irrelevant to this discussion). 300-K to Lesnar and UFC out sells boxing on PPV. What do boxers make in big fights by comparison? Millions! Interesting isn’t it? Dana and the Ferrita brothers must be amassing enough money to start their own country. The best mma fighters in the world seem to be very much under paid. [/quote]
And what is happening in boxing? The top fighters are having problems getting fights put together because the TV channels are not prepared to stump up the huge ammounts of money.
When the TV company does put it together they then have nothing left to pay for a decent undercard so you then risk a situation where the main card is dull, the undercard is totally uninteresting and your PPV crowd is pissed off that they just paid 40 bucks to watch someone fight defensively and fail to KO a guy 15 or 20 lb lighter than him.
[quote]mitchellh wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Interesting to read about what the top fighters in the UFC make, 300-K to the HW Mixed Martial Arts champion of the world (okay, some say Fedor is the real champ but that is irrelevant to this discussion). 300-K to Lesnar and UFC out sells boxing on PPV. What do boxers make in big fights by comparison? Millions! Interesting isn’t it? Dana and the Ferrita brothers must be amassing enough money to start their own country. The best mma fighters in the world seem to be very much under paid.
The boxers that make the millions draw in millions. No mma fighter draws near what a PBF does.
boxing still drastically outsells mma on a 1 to 1 basis. [/quote]
But is two blocbuster boxing matches a year enough? After all,fans really don’t care about the money…they want to see good match-ups and fights.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
mitchellh wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Interesting to read about what the top fighters in the UFC make, 300-K to the HW Mixed Martial Arts champion of the world (okay, some say Fedor is the real champ but that is irrelevant to this discussion). 300-K to Lesnar and UFC out sells boxing on PPV. What do boxers make in big fights by comparison? Millions! Interesting isn’t it? Dana and the Ferrita brothers must be amassing enough money to start their own country. The best mma fighters in the world seem to be very much under paid.
The boxers that make the millions draw in millions. No mma fighter draws near what a PBF does.
boxing still drastically outsells mma on a 1 to 1 basis.
But is two blocbuster boxing matches a year enough? After all,fans really don’t care about the money…they want to see good match-ups and fights. [/quote]
No i don’t think it is. Boxing is losing fans by the 100s, mma is picking up most of the lost fans and adding even more. There simply isn’t enough good boxing matches going on to hold fans. world of entertainment is changing, fans want to see action far more often then before.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
mitchellh wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Interesting to read about what the top fighters in the UFC make, 300-K to the HW Mixed Martial Arts champion of the world (okay, some say Fedor is the real champ but that is irrelevant to this discussion). 300-K to Lesnar and UFC out sells boxing on PPV. What do boxers make in big fights by comparison? Millions! Interesting isn’t it? Dana and the Ferrita brothers must be amassing enough money to start their own country. The best mma fighters in the world seem to be very much under paid.
The boxers that make the millions draw in millions. No mma fighter draws near what a PBF does.
boxing still drastically outsells mma on a 1 to 1 basis.
But is two blocbuster boxing matches a year enough? After all,fans really don’t care about the money…they want to see good match-ups and fights. [/quote]
True, however it seems patently unfair to pay one of your biggest drawing cards and UFC heavyweight champion a measly 300-K when you’ve taken in 30-40 million gross dollars on ppv alone. When is the last time the world heavyweight boxing champion defended his title for 300-K?
Frank Shamrock is correct UFC stands for “U Fight Cheap.”
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
mitchellh wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Interesting to read about what the top fighters in the UFC make, 300-K to the HW Mixed Martial Arts champion of the world (okay, some say Fedor is the real champ but that is irrelevant to this discussion). 300-K to Lesnar and UFC out sells boxing on PPV. What do boxers make in big fights by comparison? Millions! Interesting isn’t it? Dana and the Ferrita brothers must be amassing enough money to start their own country. The best mma fighters in the world seem to be very much under paid.
The boxers that make the millions draw in millions. No mma fighter draws near what a PBF does.
boxing still drastically outsells mma on a 1 to 1 basis.
But is two blocbuster boxing matches a year enough? After all,fans really don’t care about the money…they want to see good match-ups and fights.
True, however it seems patently unfair to pay one of your biggest drawing cards and UFC heavyweight champion a measly 300-K when you’ve taken in 30-40 million gross dollars on ppv alone. When is the last time the world heavyweight boxing champion defended his title for 300-K?
Frank Shamrock is correct UFC stands for “U Fight Cheap.”
[/quote]
What do gross PPV dollars have to do with anything? That’s a pretty small part of the overall story.
I would rather see a full card of competitive fights with name fighters, than one blockbuster with a bunch of nobodies. Especially since they only go a max of 5 rounds. How boring would it be if MMA had the same undercard talent as boxing?
You also have to look at the number of fights they get a year compared to top level boxers.
Drewh, my arabian friend (?), truly this is a splendid idea!
Muay Thai
Boxing
Some unified Folk Style Wrestling
Judo
Sanshou
Greco Roman
Karate/TWD point fighting
female mud grappling sponsored by vivid
MMA
BJJ
and some weapon form dancing,
and a few crazy exhibitions for the first and final day
[quote]dhickey wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
mitchellh wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Interesting to read about what the top fighters in the UFC make, 300-K to the HW Mixed Martial Arts champion of the world (okay, some say Fedor is the real champ but that is irrelevant to this discussion). 300-K to Lesnar and UFC out sells boxing on PPV. What do boxers make in big fights by comparison? Millions! Interesting isn’t it? Dana and the Ferrita brothers must be amassing enough money to start their own country. The best mma fighters in the world seem to be very much under paid.
The boxers that make the millions draw in millions. No mma fighter draws near what a PBF does.
boxing still drastically outsells mma on a 1 to 1 basis.
But is two blocbuster boxing matches a year enough? After all,fans really don’t care about the money…they want to see good match-ups and fights.
True, however it seems patently unfair to pay one of your biggest drawing cards and UFC heavyweight champion a measly 300-K when you’ve taken in 30-40 million gross dollars on ppv alone. When is the last time the world heavyweight boxing champion defended his title for 300-K?
Frank Shamrock is correct UFC stands for “U Fight Cheap.”
What do gross PPV dollars have to do with anything? That’s a pretty small part of the overall story.[/quote]
That has everything to do with it as that is where the UFC makes most of their money. If they were not drawing any ppv buys then the UFC would be diminishing instead of getting larger. Since they are gaining in popularity what’s wrong with sharing a bit more with their stars? This will not only benefit those in the UFC but it will also attract even more talent as the pay goes up.
I agree, but if you ad up the total paid to the top fighters for any one card it is a very tiny amount in comparison to what they’ve taken in. There is usually one championship fight on each card. Why can’t they pay that champion, whether it’s lesnar, GSP, Penn or any of them 1 million each to defend their title? This would not only be more fair but it would also serve to attract even more talent to the UFC. Take a look at not just boxing but every major sport. The best of the best are paid millions. I just read about one particular baseball player signing an eight year 160 million dollar deal, that’s 20 mil per year. I’m not saying they should match this in the UFC just bring the standard up a little. I have great respect for what these guys can do and what they go through relative to training diet etc. I think they’re some of the toughest and most skilled guys on the planet, don’t you?
That does not negate the fact that they are not making enough per fight. For example, if you make $7.50 per hour but the boss likes you and gives you 60 hours per week that means you’ll make 50% more than a guy who only works 40 hours per week but you might still be underpaid for what you do, the per hour pay has not changed. If GSP defends his title three times per year and is paid 300-K per title defense (not claiming that was his pay just an example) that means that he’s being underpaid not once but three times that year. Wouldn’t you say that GSP, being the best mma welterweight in the world is entitled to make at least close to what other’s earn for being the best in the world at their sport?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big mma and UFC fan. However, I Can’t think of any other popular sport which pays its stars less money than the UFC.
