Finally, a black guy that is willing to have an honest conversation about this issue without the preaching/condescending attitude.
I think you should start a new thread for this discussion. I would be a more than willing listener (which means I would keep my big mouth shut).
I’m not affraid to admit my ignorance to the race problems wrt black v. white. I must admit, however, that sometimes your message gets lost because of the anger/resentment that is ever present on bith sides.
Once again, thanks for your honest attempt to school those of us who want to understand.[/quote]
I want to echo what RJ says here.
I’m 34, grew up in small town NH.
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
Immigrants did the labor before illegal immigrants did. The only thing that changed were the specific immigrants that did it. Chinese and japanese immigrants started up the whole fruit/vegetable business.
Yes, but they were legal imagrants, and became Americians. I am not against immagration in general, I am against illegal immagration.[quote]
You think the chinese and japanese coming over had to go through the same process as people now? FDR wasn’t even president yet! They just came over on a boat.
[quote]No. when minimum wage goes up, aggregate supply (and output) goes down, so unemployment and prices rise. You get ‘stagflation’.
What I meant to say was that the price of production of sales went up when minimum wage went up to such high levels. Not that they went up in general. My bad.[/quote]
Cost, not price, went up. They’re two different things.
[quote]You didn’t read what I posted. The study is conducted under the impression that efficiency would remain the same, which even the 2 guys conducting it admit it wouldn’t. There have also been many other studies that refute the findings of this one.
Could I see these other studies? [/quote]
Sure, pick up any recent publication by UCMexUS, or the chicano studies center at UCLA, or UNAM studies… I don’t know where they are on the web, if you want I’ll go look up the names of the studies so you have something to base yourself on. My point was that the ‘tomato’ study is the only one that has facts to back up the whole ‘illegals aren’t indespensable’ argument, when there are many refuting it and it doesn’t even fully support said viewpoint.
[quote]Really? There’s nothing preventing someone like you from going there and working. I have worked in the fields.
And I haven’t? I happen to live on a farm and work it for free. No I wouldn’t do it for a living, and I was not speaking to my self either. Why is that that when ever someone like me makes this point, the first thing people like you say is “you wouldn’t do the labor, would you”? Of course I wouldn’t, I am qualified and better suited to do other jobs that pay more. What I said is that there are many UNDER qualified people in our country who can do the labor. There are some people in our society who can’t function well. Instead of doing the intence labor like they used do (because they couldn’t do anything else), they now get unemployment and welfare. If it wasn’t so easy to get that stuff, they would do the labor, as that would be the only thing they could do.
What we have are a high minimum wage, forcing employers who higher legaly, to only higher people they can afford. While I would not do the work, there are plenty of people who can/would, out of necesaty. [/quote]
What? High minimum wage? You just said the exact opposite. What we have is a low minimum wage, and native non-latinos aren’t willing to work for that little, so the government basically says suck it up. They allow the immigrants to pass, the overall U.S. economy needs them. This doesn’t mean that labor unions and non-skilled workers aren’t affected negatively in the short run, it means that the White House doesn’t care because to them that’s negated since in the long run the U.S. economy wins. Illegals don’t really benefit, they’ll remain at the bottom and be unable to progress (ever wonder why latinos have such a high dropout rate?). What should be done is to make the legalization process so that any non-criminal latinos can come to work much quicker. This isn’t good for the U.S. though, because businesses will decrease supply (less output means recession) and the costs of immigrants will triple (legal immigrants create a deficit 3 times that of illegals). So it’s better for business if the illegals stay at the bottom.
[quote]The reason legal (and I stress legal)immagrants and citizens did the work before is because they didn’t have a choice. Now instead of legals being forced to do it, it is illegals. The problem here is that a lot of the people who made up their share by doing manual labor, don’t anymore.
Using illegals or legals may seem a bit harsh. However the option that prevents illegals from doing the work instead would be the better of the two. [/quote]
For whom?
This si where illegals come into play.
[quote]“Please sir, DEAL WITH THE ISSUE of our prison systems being so full off ileagal imagrants. I don’t have the welfare facts on me off hand, but I do the prison stats. The urban areas like california with large illegal populations also have some of the highest crime rates in the nation. You aren’t figuring that into your “cost off illegal immagrant” statements.”
Yes I am. The CIS concluded that about 18 percent of the ‘costs’ of illegals comes from prison maintanance.
Here I was not adressing the costs in general. I was addressing that such a smaller part of the pouplation represented a larger part of the prison population.
As for costs, let me get a little more detailed. If an illegal rapes and kills a women, and then say it costs 500 a month to keep him locked up, this 500 dollars a month doesn’t account for the original crime. Again, some where around 15-30% of the prison population is illegals. 15% of the Americian population are not illegals.
[/quote]
The poorest people will always make up the largest percent of prison population. In this context they’re illegals (wonder why?). I argue the misconception that most illegals are criminals (the only law most of them break is crossing the border).
[quote]"The growth in the prison population has largely been attributable to changes in law that increased the length of prison sentences. The recent slowdown in the growth is probably primarily due to the decrease in crime in California. The decline in 2002 and the relative small increases are also due to the voters approval of Proposition 36 in the November 2000 election, which will redirect some drug offenders into treatment rather than prison. " <— from the government website.
yes yes, good and all. I was adressing illegals in prison, not prisoners in general.
Instead of saying deal with it, show me the data that backs you up, like I have.
You have propbably made about a dozen claims, and only linked to about three studies, one of which I will dispute in a moment.
Yet this apperantly isn’t enough to stop hospitals from closing is it?"
I’m merely showing that illegals do pay taxes. Again, show me the reasons why ‘all the hospitals’ have closed.
I don’t want to assert that they pay no taxes, what I am trying to argue is that they don’t pay there fair share. At least for what they cost our econamy. [/quote]
And what, exactly, do they cost the economy? They work their asses off more than any other ethnic group there is, they live the poorest lifestyle, I really don’t see where this is coming from. You say that they use the hospitals and fill the prisons, but it’s not like the hospitals are infected with them. Have you actually gone to an L.A. hospital? Go to an East LA one, that’s where the highest concentration of illegals is. Illegals can’t use hospitals anymore because they will be tracked. Look up latino raids (I’ve said it like 5 times).
[quote]As for hospitals, I have seen at least two dozen nurses and doctors interviewd and a couple programs looking into the issue. They all said the same thing, it was illegals, who they could not track because they had no ID. If this is not the case, then can you find a reason as to why over a dozen ER and a couple hospitals have closed down in the past few years?
[/quote]
Lack of funds maybe? Mayor Hahn hasn’t really helped.
All that is factored, that’s where the 10 billion comes from. What you don’t seem to get is that they don’t abuse the system. That’s why they’re the perfect choice. They don’t crowd up the hospitals or high schools (remember the dropout rate), they can’t really get the other benefits (remember the raids), and they work for basically nothing!
[quote]Again, it looks like you just read the first sentence and threw the rest out. It doens’t say that cops directly increase the crime rate. It says that when funds are spent on things like cops, poverty increases, and this causes an increase in the crime rate.
Yes, things LIKE cops. It would not have to be cops specificly either. What this pamplet can prove to me is that missmanaged funds in general can do this. Yet this pamplet can not dispute that it is possable to higher more cops while keeping a balanced budget. They just sight mismanaged funds as being the problem, and then cite police as one possable area they might spend these funds. My mian problem with this pamplet is it makes the police look bad, when in fact it is bad money managment that is to blame. The same would be true if they hired more firefighters then they needed, waisted funds. Explain to me why they pick POLICE for missmanaged funds, when the same can be said for roads, utilaties, social services, ect? Typical police bashing if you ask me. [/quote]
What? I specifically said things like cops so that you wouldn’t think it was police bashing. It’s misusing the funds.
It’s one of the factors, but not the main one.
[quote]So you want the gross crime rate instead of a per-10,000 citizens one? That’s like analyzing the economic development of the U.S. and Luxembourg via GDP instead of per-capita GDP. You can’t compare that way.
Let me word it a bit differently. Southern california has a large illegal population, and a larger crime rate then northern California. It is almost like two differnt states once you get further south. Lets say for example 80% of the crime happens in southern California, and 20% in northern. If you combine the two, you have one firgure bluring the other. Instead of compareing California to the other states, how about comparing differnt districts within California? Doing a state wide stat does not account for crime-illegal ratio. California has one of the highest illegal populations, but it also has a very high legal populations.
Doing a stat ctrime per 10,000 citezens is missleading. Do it this way.
<----L.A. crime rate. LA has traditionally been ‘infested’ with illegals (to borrow from rainjack’s vocabulary), yet it experiences a steady decrease in both violent and property crime rate. Gee willickers, but the illegals are supposed to be crazy gangbangers. This is the same stereotype that puts so many innocent ethnic minorities behind bars (mostly blacks and latinos).
First, again, if you have say an influx of legals, then that would make the average crime rate go down. Even if the crim rate among illegals stayed the same. [/quote]
I specifically chose LA because that’s where the largest growth in illegal population is occuring, and yet crime keeps dropping. Illegals aren’t gangbangers, how many times do I have to say it.
[quote] As for as innocent blacks and such. What do you make of people liek Bill Cosby saying things like black people bring it on them selves? To quote Bill Cosby
“a 70% pregnancey rate among black teenage girls, you just can’t blame white people on that”
“I used to wonder why these kids talked they way they did, untill I meet their parents. Who it is, what you be, is you ain’t! You can;t become a doctor or a lawer speaking like that”
“These people will spend 500 dollars to buy there kids sneakers, and they won’t spend 200 dollars on phonics”
“Our people had rocks thrown at them because they protested, and for what, this?”
When people liek Bill Cosby come out and say stuff like that, you have a problem.
How do you respond to Bill Cosby saying stuff like this? And don’t give me the “it doesn’t just apply to black people”. Yes, these can apply to white people. He has even said that all people need to do a better job of raising there kids, white or black. However, when he first started making comments like this he addressed it to black people specificly, speaking at conventions for black people. And more specificly, I listend to him say
“You can’t just blame white people for that”
Again, not me, but Bill Cosby saying this stuff. [/quote]
Bill argues that blacks bring certain things upon themselves, but it’s not exactly the same atmosphere and opportunities as whites, no matter how you argue it. Please don’t tell me that latinos have the same opportunities as whites.
I love the way you run around passing judgment on folk. It doesn’t matter if they’ve for an honest discussion, or not. You have them pegged because they are white and ingnorant of the black man’s plight.
That is bigotry beyond anything a white man has ever posted on here since I’ve been a member. But you’ll get a pass, not because you have endured anything close to what Turner did, but because it might be believed that you share DNA.
Pitiful - arrogant - Racist.
[/quote]
You don’t even know what you are talking about. I have spoken with Joe often through Pm’s. My concerns and what I wrote above are very honest opinions based on that. Because of that, it is you passing judgment. Joe just dismissed what Nat Turner was put through and tried to act as if blacks in the mid-20th century were so far removed from that action that it would have allowed the use of extreme force against racism. I am honestly in awe of that. I was not aware that the racism that many blacks faced in the 50’s was so hidden in history classes or in American homes today. I wasn’t aware that people didn’t know that a black person in 1950 couldn’t go eat in the same restaurant as a white person in the South. That isn’t condescending, it is CONCERN. This wasn’t even a century ago and many of these people are still alive…but for some of you, it is an action that you never even think of and have to be taught about. That bothers me greatly. It makes me wonder where you all have been ands if you even watch movies or documentaries from that time period. I know that Joe didn’t grow up around black people at all. He has told me as such. You have thrown that word “racist” around through out this entire thread when nothing in my post was racist at all.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Little Al, get this straight.
I use your weight to curl with.
I warm up for squats with more than you weigh.[/quote]
Little Joe, get this straight: I don’t give a flying fuck how much you use to curl or squat. Think I’ve never lifted anything over 145? I’ve lifted twice my own weight as a bodybuilder. Does my weight matter? No.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
So please don’t start with the that whole thing, not here. That may well work on a gaming site, but here you’re playing with men.[/quote]
Say what? You’re the one who keeps on bringing up my weight and eating habbits on every thread I post in. Here comes the clue train; Last stop, you!
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
And, btw, I’ve seen your pictures remember. You look like a skinny guy with low bodyfat. You don’t look like you train with weights.
Sorry.[/quote]
I don’t give a shit what you think about my physique - sorry [actually I have nothing to be sorry about - I’m just reversing your dumbass quips and using them again you]. I didn’t post my pictures because I felt like having a bunch of guys with more adipose tissue than I’ll ever have in my life tell me that I need to “eat more and lift heavy.” I knew this was going to happen. I wasn’t even expecting to recieve the praise that I did. The fact that I recieved any at all - on a forum of meatheads - is a testament to my superb overall conditioning. Your claim that I “don’t look like I lift weights” is some of the most ridiculous bullshit that anyone could possibly claim. But then, it’s no less than what I’ve come to expect. You simply never learn; you keep on spewing bullshit like a broken record player, despite getting your ass handed to you every which way whenever you type a sentence.
“Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved.”
nopal_juventus, it is quite obvious we are both set in our beleif systems. It isn’t that I mind the discussion, but I feel now it is just getting pointless. I will however address a couple points.
When you say spending funds on things like Police. Puting it that way does not go around police bashing, because it brings police into the equasion. My rebutle of that study was that it brings police into the equasion when it isn’t part of the problem.
As for my coments on Bill Cosby. Blacks do have the same atmosphere and opportunities as whites. Some of our richest and most sucesfull people in the past 50 years have been black. Larry Elder, a black talk show host I listen to puts it this way. Black people have a victom mentalaty. They don’t put effort into there education and such, as they are under this idea that they are allways opressed. They convince themselves that no matter what they do they wont succeed. Things like affirmative action gaurentie them a job , regardless of there skills. So they don’t train there skills. If this is not true, then explain to me this. Imagrents from India and Asia, from 1st to 4th generation do
A: Very well in out education system and generaly get very high scores.
B: In general don’t get involved with gangs, or hive high teen pregancy rates.
Why? Because of the way these people people raise kids, and were raised. As Bill Cosby said, high pregancy rates and slured speach. That has nothing to do with opertunaties, it is everything to do with how you raise your kids. Plenty of people in life lived in ghetos and run down block of societies, yet raised their kids to achive.
A lot of the problem is that the door has been opened for blacks, and they just don’t step through. Asians seem to deal with our society just fine. Even though Asian immagrents generaly are not given a better start or opurtunaties then black people.
Latino’s that are 3rd and 4th generation latinos do have the same opportunities as whites. One Latino bought a sports team (or was it a stadium) about a year or two ago. He atributed his success in life to his parents being dedicated Americians, and teaching him things like that he had to speak english. Even if a first generation is not given those opertunaties, they can give them to there kids. By raising to adapt to our society. To speak our language and live as we do.
Otherwise you have to explain why Indian and Asian immagrents do so well (a lot of whom came here with very little), and why black people and latino’s don’t.
As I say though, I doubt we will change each others minds so I probaly wont continue beyond this post.
If you remove someone from the breeding population, you have in effect selected away from them.
It’s the principle behind putting trophy fish back, for one thing.[/quote]
Fishing = natural selection to you? I think much of the problem comes from the simple fact that even though it is clear to many that you don’t know what you are talking about, you will never stop trying to act as if you do. You have been corrected on this in how many posts now? How many more will it take for you to say, “OK, maybe I had it wrong”?
I love the way you run around passing judgment on folk. It doesn’t matter if they’ve for an honest discussion, or not. You have them pegged because they are white and ingnorant of the black man’s plight.
That is bigotry beyond anything a white man has ever posted on here since I’ve been a member. But you’ll get a pass, not because you have endured anything close to what Turner did, but because it might be believed that you share DNA.
Pitiful - arrogant - Racist.
You don’t even know what you are talking about. I have spoken with Joe often through Pm’s. My concerns and what I wrote above are very honest opinions based on that. Because of that, it is you passing judgment. Joe just dismissed what Nat Turner was put through and tried to act as if blacks in the mid-20th century were so far removed from that action that it would have allowed the use of extreme force against racism. I am honestly in awe of that. I was not aware that the racism that many blacks faced in the 50’s was so hidden in history classes or in American homes today. I wasn’t aware that people didn’t know that a black person in 1950 couldn’t go eat in the same restaurant as a white person in the South. That isn’t condescending, it is CONCERN. This wasn’t even a century ago and many of these people are still alive…but for some of you, it is an action that you never even think of and have to be taught about. That bothers me greatly. It makes me wonder where you all have been ands if you even watch movies or documentaries from that time period. I know that Joe didn’t grow up around black people at all. He has told me as such. You have thrown that word “racist” around through out this entire thread when nothing in my post was racist at all.
[/quote]
Prof, you misunderstood me…and you’re misquoting me a bit.
And btw, I’m here…I put myself out on the line about this shit, admitted my shortcomings…and all you can do is pick and carp?
How is that helpful for you or me?
No. I wasn’t dismissing what Nat Browne went through. It makes me sick to think of it. Just like it makes me sick to think of Reginald Denny being dragged from his vehicle and beaten.
But you seem to be wallowing in it, to the exclusion of seeing how things have changed, and how they’re changing.
No. I don’t have your perspective.
I know that–I don’t need you to tell me.
That’s why I ask for your perspective. But I don’t think that means you need to berate.
Educate.
If you remove someone from the breeding population, you have in effect selected away from them.
It’s the principle behind putting trophy fish back, for one thing.
Fishing = natural selection to you? I think much of the problem comes from the simple fact that even though it is clear to many that you don’t know what you are talking about, you will never stop trying to act as if you do. You have been corrected on this in how many posts now? How many more will it take for you to say, “OK, maybe I had it wrong”?[/quote]
look up the fucking definition of selection. You’ll find that removing someone from the breeding population is selection.
Stop trying to talk down to everyone. You’re not the only intelligent person in the room, you know?
And besides…what the hell do you care?
I was advocating the removal of the dumb ass bastards who were lynching black people for fun.
Why is that something worth attacking me for?
What the fuck, over?
You’re a 130 pound punk who’s way out of his league.
Go back to the game sites, who’ve apparently been smart enough to censor you and in some cases ban you.
I don’t understand why they continue to let you blather on this site.
Obviously the powers that be around here have more patience for you than they’ve shown for other people.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You don’t even know what you are talking about. I have spoken with Joe often through Pm’s. My concerns and what I wrote above are very honest opinions based on that. Because of that, it is you passing judgment. Joe just dismissed what Nat Turner was put through and tried to act as if blacks in the mid-20th century were so far removed from that action that it would have allowed the use of extreme force against racism. I am honestly in awe of that. I was not aware that the racism that many blacks faced in the 50’s was so hidden in history classes or in American homes today. I wasn’t aware that people didn’t know that a black person in 1950 couldn’t go eat in the same restaurant as a white person in the South. That isn’t condescending, it is CONCERN. This wasn’t even a century ago and many of these people are still alive…but for some of you, it is an action that you never even think of and have to be taught about. That bothers me greatly. It makes me wonder where you all have been ands if you even watch movies or documentaries from that time period. I know that Joe didn’t grow up around black people at all. He has told me as such. You have thrown that word “racist” around through out this entire thread when nothing in my post was racist at all.
[/quote]
Do you know evrything there is to know about the history of Tippah County Mississipppi? Because that’s where my family tree traces back to. I find it insulting, concerning, and I find myself in awe that you know nothing about the history of Tippah County.
From now on, everytime you mention Miss., or Tippah Co., or anytime I think you are referring to me - I shal hold you in contempt for your ignorance. I won’t offer to school you - that is your responsibility. I am deeply disturbed that you haven’t been taught my history already.
You are one of the reasons that there is racial tension. YES YOU. Do you want to get along and have everything smell like a new car? I don’t either - but what I would like is for someone who holds himself up as some sort of beacon for the black experience to put down the little judge’s hammer. It’s not doing anything but making shit worse.
You can be as frustrated, concerned, awestruck, as you feel you need to be, but when you mix it with with your condescension/judgementalism - I could give a shit how you feel. You make it that way. I think you make it that way on purpose. I think you get off on making whitey ‘feel bad’ for something that happened before you were born.
It might have worked for a while, but I am getting sick and tired of being judged -by you- for something I wan’t even around for. Funny thing is - you most likely weren’t around for it either. Yet you have the right to be ‘concerned’, or be in awe?
The sad fact of the matter is - you are neither. You are holding folks in contempt because they admit their ignorance. That’s a hell of a way to educate, prof.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You don’t even know what you are talking about. I have spoken with Joe often through Pm’s. My concerns and what I wrote above are very honest opinions based on that. Because of that, it is you passing judgment. Joe just dismissed what Nat Turner was put through and tried to act as if blacks in the mid-20th century were so far removed from that action that it would have allowed the use of extreme force against racism. I am honestly in awe of that. I was not aware that the racism that many blacks faced in the 50’s was so hidden in history classes or in American homes today. I wasn’t aware that people didn’t know that a black person in 1950 couldn’t go eat in the same restaurant as a white person in the South. That isn’t condescending, it is CONCERN. This wasn’t even a century ago and many of these people are still alive…but for some of you, it is an action that you never even think of and have to be taught about. That bothers me greatly. It makes me wonder where you all have been ands if you even watch movies or documentaries from that time period. I know that Joe didn’t grow up around black people at all. He has told me as such. You have thrown that word “racist” around through out this entire thread when nothing in my post was racist at all.
Do you know evrything there is to know about the history of Tippah County Mississipppi? Because that’s where my family tree traces back to. I find it insulting, concerning, and I find myself in awe that you know nothing about the history of Tippah County.
From now on, everytime you mention Miss., or Tippah Co., or anytime I think you are referring to me - I shal hold you in contempt for your ignorance. I won’t offer to school you - that is your responsibility. I am deeply disturbed that you haven’t been taught my history already.
You are one of the reasons that there is racial tension. YES YOU. Do you want to get along and have everything smell like a new car? I don’t either - but what I would like is for someone who holds himself up as some sort of beacon for the black experience to put down the little judge’s hammer. It’s not doing anything but making shit worse.
You can be as frustrated, concerned, awestruck, as you feel you need to be, but when you mix it with with your condescension/judgementalism - I could give a shit how you feel. You make it that way. I think you make it that way on purpous. I think you get off on making whitey ‘feel bad’ for something that happened before you were born.
It might have worked for a while, but I am getting sick and tired of being judged -by you- for something I wan’t even around for. Funny thing is - you most likely weren’t around for it either. Yet you have the right to be ‘concerned’, or be in awe?
The sad fact of the matter is - you are neither. You are holding folks in contempt because they admit their ignorance. That’s a hell of a way to educate, prof.
[/quote]
Well struck. And thanks.
That’s what I’m trying to say.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
…“Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved.”[/quote]
Al, this describes you perfectly. Unfortunately you do not see it.
[quote]Al Shades wrote:
Say what? You’re the one who keeps on bringing up my eating habbits on every thread I post in. [/quote]
When you eat these habbits, do you roast them or boil, or eat them raw? Do the little furs on the feet stick in your throat?
Is this something that happens on one of those little games you play?
I read that book in 5th grade…I liked Bilbo, he was pretty funny. Gollum was funny too. I never read the Lord of the Rings though.
How do you catch a habbit? I’m guessing they’re pretty hard to catch. Some sort of snare maybe?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Do you know evrything there is to know about the history of Tippah County Mississipppi? Because that’s where my family tree traces back to. I find it insulting, concerning, and I find myself in awe that you know nothing about the history of Tippah County.
[/quote]
Do members of Tippah County make up a huge percentage of the people in the United States? I didn’t think so. The same can not be said of blacks in general and this is not about one particular black person but how clueless Joe seems to be as far as anything that concerns what blacks have experienced in America and how that progressed to where we are today. He knows of small facts but seems completely disconnected. Your attempt at an analogy fails because of that. I can go my whole life and never meet or see a person from Tippah County. I seriously doubt there are many places in the US today where a person could grow up and never meet or see a black person even on tv. This was a sad attempt. Whoops, I judged you again.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
You don’t even know what you are talking about. I have spoken with Joe often through Pm’s. My concerns and what I wrote above are very honest opinions based on that. Because of that, it is you passing judgment. Joe just dismissed what Nat Turner was put through and tried to act as if blacks in the mid-20th century were so far removed from that action that it would have allowed the use of extreme force against racism. I am honestly in awe of that. I was not aware that the racism that many blacks faced in the 50’s was so hidden in history classes or in American homes today. I wasn’t aware that people didn’t know that a black person in 1950 couldn’t go eat in the same restaurant as a white person in the South. That isn’t condescending, it is CONCERN. This wasn’t even a century ago and many of these people are still alive…but for some of you, it is an action that you never even think of and have to be taught about. That bothers me greatly. It makes me wonder where you all have been ands if you even watch movies or documentaries from that time period. I know that Joe didn’t grow up around black people at all. He has told me as such. You have thrown that word “racist” around through out this entire thread when nothing in my post was racist at all.
Do you know evrything there is to know about the history of Tippah County Mississipppi? Because that’s where my family tree traces back to. I find it insulting, concerning, and I find myself in awe that you know nothing about the history of Tippah County.
From now on, everytime you mention Miss., or Tippah Co., or anytime I think you are referring to me - I shal hold you in contempt for your ignorance. I won’t offer to school you - that is your responsibility. I am deeply disturbed that you haven’t been taught my history already.
You are one of the reasons that there is racial tension. YES YOU. Do you want to get along and have everything smell like a new car? I don’t either - but what I would like is for someone who holds himself up as some sort of beacon for the black experience to put down the little judge’s hammer. It’s not doing anything but making shit worse.
You can be as frustrated, concerned, awestruck, as you feel you need to be, but when you mix it with with your condescension/judgementalism - I could give a shit how you feel. You make it that way. I think you make it that way on purpose. I think you get off on making whitey ‘feel bad’ for something that happened before you were born.
It might have worked for a while, but I am getting sick and tired of being judged -by you- for something I wan’t even around for. Funny thing is - you most likely weren’t around for it either. Yet you have the right to be ‘concerned’, or be in awe?
The sad fact of the matter is - you are neither. You are holding folks in contempt because they admit their ignorance. That’s a hell of a way to educate, prof.
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You don’t like being judged for something you weren’t around for?
Take that feeling that you get when you think you are being judged for something you didn’t do and multiply that by everday of your life and maybe you might begin to understand where X is coming from.
I realized my skin color affected the way I was jusged/viewed when I was 6 or 7 years old. Didn’t like it then, don’t like it now.
When JW makes a comment about blacks shooting the assholes it does cause shock an awe. For me it’s hard to accept that someone doesn’t realize the consequences of retaliation of blacks would have been awful. The only reason I realized what was going on was because I have met some people who have no idea what the environment was like then or now.
The history of black America is out there.
First thing I would do is to get a basic idea of what racism is and what causes it. That may seem apparent, but it’s not. If JW understood that, then he would see why his comments made my jaw drop.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Do members of Tippah County make up a huge percentage of the people in the United States? I didn’t think so. The same can not be said of blacks in general and this is not about one particular black person but how clueless Joe seems to be as far as anything that concerns what blacks have experienced in America and how that progressed to where we are today. He knows of small facts but seems completely disconnected. Your attempt at an analogy fails because of that. I can go my whole life and never meet or see a person from Tippah County. I seriously doubt there are many places in the US today where a person could grow up and never meet or see a black person even on tv. This was a sad attempt. [/quote]
Tippah County aside - There are actually white folk right here on this thread that have expressed an interest in learning about what your ancestors have been through. We can read all we want but, just as in Joe’s case, we are still held in contempt by folks like you because we didn’t read enough, or we didn’t read it correctly.
What’s wrong with us expressing curiosity about what blacks have gone through? We’ve admitted we are not experts in the field. I think it has been stated at leaset once before that we are, as white males, ignorant of what it is some of your ancestors endured physically, as well as the discrimination that has affected all of the black population in the U.S.
Yet you feel compelled to call us clueless. You say that it is not worth it to even attempt to school us because we are so ignorant. I’m begging you, and I think JW will join in with me, to enlighten us. Let us ask stupid assed questions, let us be frustrated, let us frustrate you. Isn’t that the process of true learning?
But you seem to blame us for wanting this. I don’t know why. I’ve never made a black guy sit in the kitchen to eat. I’ve never burned a cross. I’ve never owned a black man. But you want me to bare the punishment for things I’ve never done, and to ask you for an honest discussion about their effects results in you ducking, dodging, and blaming us for our own ignorance.
Why?
[quote] Whoops, I judged you again.
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The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.
“Little Joe, get this straight: I don’t give a flying fuck how much you use to curl or squat.”
What a nice kid. On his way to being a wonderfully productive adult!!!
“Think I’ve never lifted anything over 145?”
Good God!!! I hope so.
“I’ve lifted twice my own weight as a bodybuilder.”
You have not done a clean bench with 290. You have not squatted at parallel or below with 290. You probably haven’t deadlifted 290.
Period.
Pray tell, exactly how did you lift it?
“Does my weight matter? No.”
Yes. It is indicitive of your extreme youth. It is also a nice illustration of your lack of experience in bodybuilding and life in general.
“Say what? You’re the one who keeps on bringing up my weight and eating habbits on every thread I post in. Here comes the clue train; Last stop, you!”
Great.
“I don’t give a shit what you think about my physique - sorry [actually I have nothing to be sorry about - I’m just reversing your dumbass quips and using them again you]. I didn’t post my pictures because I felt like having a bunch of guys with more adipose tissue than I’ll ever have in my life tell me that I need to “eat more and lift heavy.” I knew this was going to happen. I wasn’t even expecting to recieve the praise that I did. The fact that I recieved any at all - on a forum of meatheads - is a testament to my superb overall conditioning.”
Oh my God!!! Again, oh my God!!! Did you actually write “superb overall conditioning?” Do anorexics possess “superb overall conditioning?” What about guys stranded on desert islands?
“Your claim that I “don’t look like I lift weights” is some of the most ridiculous bullshit that anyone could possibly claim.”
Falls far short of a seventeen year old weighing 145 promoting anarachy. If you had anything, I’d simply take it in your ideal form of government.
“But then, it’s no less than what I’ve come to expect. You simply never learn; you keep on spewing bullshit like a broken record player”
Is that like echoing the Brown-star like a parrot?
“despite getting your ass handed to you every which way whenever you type a sentence.”
Poor little Al. You are so far behind, you think you ahead.
Are you parents still living?
If so, did they desert you?
I guaran-fucking-tee that your father did not take an active part in your life. He would have long ago beat the living hell out of you. Your unfounded arrogance simply wouldn’t exist if your father had been involved in your life.
With your ding-dong ideas, I’ll bet you didn’t really have a maternal influence as well.
POX being a racist is not just the crap that he’s posted on this thread.
Read how he treated his college classmates, who did nothing wrong except not talk to him. Given his attitude, I can’t believe that that’s an uncommon occurrence – “gee, Louis Cyr Jr. is acting like an asshole again, condescending to all in sight, bringing up his overwhelming intellect and looking at his biceps! He already told the class how he is motivated by anger. He doesn’t laugh, he gives white people dirty looks, he can’t take criticism, and he has no sense of humor. Wait, now after being a prick for 16 weeks, he wants my notes? Let me hop right on that!”.
His response was pure, unjustifiable racism. He presumed prejudice on the part of others and blatantly discriminated against the next class – in this case kids he didn’t even know!
Read his infamous: “There’s nothing that scares white people more than a ‘big’ angry loud black man.”
Imagine if one of the white guys on the board, like Joe Weider or Rainjack, were to come on and say: “I’m laughing as I type, and all my black co-workers are cowering. There’s nothing that scares black people more than a large, angry, loud, Southern white man!” We would call them stupid racists and rightfully so.
POX is a racist. In the 1990s, colleges taught that racism was OK as long as it was against whites. I didn’t like that, I didn’t see how it was any better than what happened to minorities, and I didn’t engage in it. The 1990s are over. Al Shades’s body turned 8, Nopal’s heroes in the USSR were ousted, and POX is still a racist!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Do members of Tippah County make up a huge percentage of the people in the United States? I didn’t think so. The same can not be said of blacks in general and this is not about one particular black person but how clueless Joe seems to be as far as anything that concerns what blacks have experienced in America and how that progressed to where we are today. He knows of small facts but seems completely disconnected. Your attempt at an analogy fails because of that. I can go my whole life and never meet or see a person from Tippah County. I seriously doubt there are many places in the US today where a person could grow up and never meet or see a black person even on tv. This was a sad attempt. Whoops, I judged you again.
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